[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rizso

Wayfarer kinda need horizon cananopy's / cyclelands to be really useful.

---

I guess. You can active in response to wasting someone (or fetching) when you have parity on land drops (I.E. if you went first and do it on their turn) and grab another waste/thing. It's card advantage either way and you have the (very good) benefit of wasting someone up to 4 times without caring. If you have a remotely usable hand you can simply play a 2-drop as soon as they miss a land drop. I may try to figure him out in my Junk brew since I'm so heavy on 2-drops. A CA-engine at 1-mana that only requires fetches and W seems pretty boss.

CA is CA is my point. If you activate him twice in response to fetches (or just being behind) you have TC levels of CA, so I wouldn't call him useless just because you didn't actually "Draw cards"

He requires alot of time tho. Have tried to get him work for while. But he is hard to play with. Thought not really tried him out with deathrite shaman.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wilkin

Like the build MBSegal. UR Delver and Burn look like byes.

Garruk is an interesting choice, I'm guessing you went with Garruk over Elspeth or Sorin, Lord of Innistrad because Garruk can kill a creature the turn in comes into play whereas the other 2 can't.

---

Well, some of it was I don't own the other two. It is ok against D&T, Miracles and on the play against Elves. Not going to pretend it was a well thought out decision, just I like Garruk Relentless. I think Absolute Law should be containment priest, just I didn't know that card existed until Sunday (I have not played in 4 months or more).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rizso

He requires alot of time tho. Have tried to get him work for while. But he is hard to play with. Thought not really tried him out with deathrite shaman.

---

He could be useless for other reasons still ;P
Like I said, I think I'll try to figure him out in Junk a bit and let people know if I have any success with it. He may just be too conditional or the CA may be too low quality.


EDIT:
How do people feel about Batterskull vs. Sword#2? I think I want to try some more BSK again, but maybe it's just not meant for non-Mom decks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tescrin

He could be useless for other reasons still ;P
Like I said, I think I'll try to figure him out in Junk a bit and let people know if I have any success with it. He may just be too conditional or the CA may be too low quality.


EDIT:
How do people feel about Batterskull vs. Sword#2? I think I want to try some more BSK again, but maybe it's just not meant for non-Mom decks.

---

I like the batterskull as all the creatures in the deck are so small by themself. Batterskull is a way to make them bigger. Just like dnt batterskull do sometime gets equiped.

As I've said, I like Sorin over Garruk because it's ultimate means that miracles can't ever play out a jace with him on board, but Garruk isn't terrible by any means. As for skull vs 2nd sword, I like skull because all of our men are small and terrible in combat. Skull is the opposite

I would cut the 4th Bob far before I cut the 1st Batterskull.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maharis

Played my list above last night, except I couldn't get my hand on any mutavaults before the tournament so I played 2 Spirit of the Labyrinth, 2 Mishra's Factory, and 3 Wasteland.

Rd. 1 BW rack pox win 2-1. Nothing to say here, the guy was a returning player who had Hypnotic Specter in his deck. I lost game 2 when he ritualed into hymn and IoK turn one. Guess I should play Force of Will. Other games equipment and Lingering Souls were bad for him.

Rd. 2 miracles lose 1-2. I won game 1 when he had two pyroblasts trapped in his hand and never drew a Brainstorm. Sic semper tyrannis! I don't remember what happened in game 2. I scooped to him in turns in game 3 rather than make him take a draw when I had no chance to break out of his lock and win when he could've Jaced me out eventually. So this was probably closer to a draw than a loss theoretically but I did willingly concede.

Rd. 3 storm lose 0-2. I had a lot of thoughtseizes and a bob game one, and I flipped hero of bladehold allowing him to tendrils me out for like 5 storm. Thanks for nothing Wilkin :laugh: Game 2 I kept Thoughtseize, 2 Souls, Swamp, 2 Wasteland and Nihil Spellbomb. I thought if he had a non-basic, thoughtseize into waste would give me time to find a plains. Plus I had Spellbomb in case his line took him to PiF. And I didn't want to mull into no interaction. It didn't work out that way. I seized a Cabal Ritual, but he had a probe, saw I had nothing I could really do, and knew to fetch basics. But his Ad Nauseum flipped Tendrils early. Unfortunately for me he had the ability to do a value tendrils then a second one to finish me off because he boarded in a second copy. tech!

Rd. 4 jeskai stoneblade (BBD) lose 0-2. I did manage to Zealous away a TNN in game one but I already knew he had a batterskull. Didn't find a discard spell. I attempted to resolve a Spirit of the Lab at some point and he snap forced. Game 2 he cast a lot of treasure cruises but I kept hanging on. Eventually I resolved Hero of Bladehold, attacked into his batterskull, Pyromancer and a couple tokens, he said he knew what was coming but blocked anyway. I zealoused the shit out of his board, but he untapped and played a TNN that picked up the batterskull and carried it to victory.

I felt that the games were very close, despite the fact that I went 1-3 I like the deck. There are some things I learned:

—Wasteland is declining in power in the UR(W) meta, which I define as including the jeskai blade deck, UR(w) delver, miracles. Those decks have lots of fetches, card draw, Gitaxian Probes, and basics. Getting them a turn closer to Treasure Cruise at the expense of your own land drop and board is just ugly. And because Wastelend isn't played in many decks, manlands gain a lot of power. Ones that don't CIP tapped like Factory and Mutavault especially seem good in a deck without many heavy color requirements. Something to apply pressure with, pick up equipment, flash back therapy. I really think I want at least 3, and two Wastelands as panic buttons. Sure wish I had a way to find those Wastes when I want them though.

—I really wanted more ways to kill artifacts. I guess the answer is more Council's Judgment. Also might toss a Dispeller's Capsule in the board to grab with E-tutor. Wish Vindicate killed TNN somehow.

—You can never have too many Zealous Persecutions. I think I might toss in an Orzhov Pontiff as well.

—Darkblast was kind of meh. I used it to kill a Snapcaster Mage. I like knowing it's there, didn't get to live the dream with Top. Maybe on the chopping block.

—Definitely wish I had some way to recur from the graveyard. I feel like every other deck gets insane value from all zones and we are just living off the top. Gonna look into that as well.

---

I've been tesing Volrath's Stronghold in place of the 4th Wasteland. I always think knight is an option with one of lands but honestly vs is fine on its own. I also splash green, a bastardized junk/deadguy list.

I thought about Wayfarer, but it's so weak/conditional. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if it's worth running only 2 wastelands in a deck without really meaningful library manipulation. At least the Karakas produces white mana. I don't think mana denial is an effective strategy in this deck at the moment with curves so low and cantrips abundant. The main cards I want to hit with it are Gaea's Cradle, Rishadan Port, Cloudpost, and Tabernacle. Running a true land toolbox with cycling lands also seems like a good way to get stuck with bad openers. Horizon Canopy is the best one of those cards, and even it's kind of meh. The problem I'm facing is running out of threats, and that's where Factories come in. I had two Wastelands in play at the end of a miracles matchup and I think had they been Factories I could've pulled it off.

I do think Jotun Grunt is very interesting right now, though. It does a good job of keeping them off Cruise and there's always a ton of fuel. Getting a sword on it is the key since it lacks evasion.

I played Garruk Relentless in Nic Fit. It's pretty underrated, but I don't think we're green enough here to cast him reliably. It's gross in nic fit, you either pump out dudes or kill one of their dudes, pump out dudes, then start tutoring with those dudes. Sorin is great vs miracles, I unfortunately didn't get him down against it. Maybe should have more than one.

Batterskull vs. Sword of Light & Shadow... SoLaS gives us some much needed card advantage/selection, and it blocks opposing Batterskulls. A Kor Firewalker wearing that thing would be sick. On the other hand, untapping with an SFM when you have Skull in hand is close to an autowin.

Edit:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I've been tesing Volrath's Stronghold in place of the 4th Wasteland. I always think knight is an option with one of lands but honestly vs is fine on its own. I also splash green, a bastardized junk/deadguy list.

---

Yes, I thought of this card last night and forgot. I think it's really good right now. Definitely need Knight for it though. Or it scores another point for Wayfarer because this is a card that can flip a matchup around.

My testing with VS some months back (march-ish?) was underwhelming. Plows/DRS/Scooze are obnoxious and sometimes the only guys you can get back are a confidant or something. At the time I had no mystics/equips so I'm sure it was worse since I needed fat (I was using KotR in Junk.) There's just enough psuedo-gravehate in good cards (as mentioned above) that anything outside of RUG or UR has ways of interacting with your ability to get stuff back. Doesn't mean it's bad, but after my experience with it I've avoided it. I'd be glad to find out if my super-cool tech card was actually good :p.

But...

I've also had little luck with SoLaS getting me dudes back. When it does it's sweet that you have unlimited sword carriers, can fight through Lily discard, can chump endlessly.. etc. but I've mostly been running SoLaS because Pro-removal is pretty sweet and I think having all ground dudes and no-mom makes me like an out to D&T. (In junk I stopped running my -1/-1 effects because Delver decks were causing me problems.)

I also protest cutting wastes. Bahra, for example, (a D&T player) speaks about how he basically won Richmond off of wasting 4-5 people out. Wastes have always been sometimes-dead; but they're too good to start moving around I think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tescrin

My testing with VS some months back (march-ish?) was underwhelming. Plows/DRS/Scooze are obnoxious and sometimes the only guys you can get back are a confidant or something. At the time I had no mystics/equips so I'm sure it was worse since I needed fat (I was using KotR in Junk.) There's just enough psuedo-gravehate in good cards (as mentioned above) that anything outside of RUG or UR has ways of interacting with your ability to get stuff back. Doesn't mean it's bad, but after my experience with it I've avoided it. I'd be glad to find out if my super-cool tech card was actually good :p.

But...

I've also had little luck with SoLaS getting me dudes back. When it does it's sweet that you have unlimited sword carriers, can fight through Lily discard, can chump endlessly.. etc. but I've mostly been running SoLaS because Pro-removal is pretty sweet and I think having all ground dudes and no-mom makes me like an out to D&T. (In junk I stopped running my -1/-1 effects because Delver decks were causing me problems.)

I also protest cutting wastes. Bahra, for example, (a D&T player) speaks about how he basically won Richmond off of wasting 4-5 people out. Wastes have always been sometimes-dead; but they're too good to start moving around I think.

---

Problem I would have with solas in the main is that there is quite few creatures overall in the deck. However Shriekmaw pretty damn awesome if running that sword. The seconds sword I like the most atm is Sword of Feast and Famine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tescrin

My testing with VS some months back (march-ish?) was underwhelming. Plows/DRS/Scooze are obnoxious and sometimes the only guys you can get back are a confidant or something. At the time I had no mystics/equips so I'm sure it was worse since I needed fat (I was using KotR in Junk.) There's just enough psuedo-gravehate in good cards (as mentioned above) that anything outside of RUG or UR has ways of interacting with your ability to get stuff back. Doesn't mean it's bad, but after my experience with it I've avoided it. I'd be glad to find out if my super-cool tech card was actually good :p.

But...

I've also had little luck with SoLaS getting me dudes back. When it does it's sweet that you have unlimited sword carriers, can fight through Lily discard, can chump endlessly.. etc. but I've mostly been running SoLaS because Pro-removal is pretty sweet and I think having all ground dudes and no-mom makes me like an out to D&T. (In junk I stopped running my -1/-1 effects because Delver decks were causing me problems.)

I also protest cutting wastes. Bahra, for example, (a D&T player) speaks about how he basically won Richmond off of wasting 4-5 people out. Wastes have always been sometimes-dead; but they're too good to start moving around I think.

---

Yeah, it's hard to cut Wasteland. 3 feels like too many and 2 feels like too few. Should be noted that D&T also plays port and thalia, though, which puts more pressure on manabases.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rizso

Problem I would have with solas in the main is that there is quite few creatures overall in the deck. However Shriekmaw pretty damn awesome if running that sword. The seconds sword I like the most atm is Sword of Feast and Famine.

---

That is cool, but for that to work you need to have already killed a creature with shriekmaw and gotten through with a sword, which means you're probably already ahead. I wish SoLaS engines were more viable in terms of coming from behind, which is what I'm looking for. SoLaS is good because each hit undoes a Delver/bolt and lets you get back a creature that they have already used removal on like SFM or Bob or DRS, I think.

SoFaF is really good at times as well. Being able to do two things a turn is the difference between life and death. I try to keep it in my board if I think BGx will be a thing.

Went 4-0 tonight. I can try to do a report if you guys want.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teluin

Went 4-0 tonight. I can try to do a report if you guys want.

---

Sure, especially if there were hard match ups.

This was my first time playing at the newest game store in town so I had no idea what the meta was. We have 3 different stores at each end of the region that fire Legacy each week, and there were a lot of faces I hadn't seen at the other stores.

* Note, this is all from memory and some things are a bit of guesswork. Some things happened, but might've been in a different game of the match. I didn't take notes, etc.

The deck:

Deadguy Ale

Land:

4 Scrubland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Swamp

2 Plains
1 Karakas

Total: 22

Creatures:


4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant

Total: 8



Spells:


2 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Liliana of the Veil

3 Bitterblossom
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Engineered Plague
1 Umezawa’s Jitte

1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Rest in Peace
1 Helm of Obedience

Total: 31

Siderboard:

2 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Vindicate
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Engineered Plague
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of Sanctity

Matches:

UR Delver

He wins the die roll and is on the play.

Game 1 he plays a land and passes the turn. I cast IoK, take a Forked Bolt leaving a Lightning Bolt. He seemed a bit confused and plays Delver. I play RiP and he seems very confused about what I'm playing but admits it's nice vs his Cruises. Next turn I played Bitterblossom. Yep. His Delver blind flips - which they did every time during our games. Every. Time. Anyway, Bitterblossom keeps me alive and discard keeps his hand empty. He has 1 card in hand, and I cast Helm. He draws, no answer, on to game 2.

Game 2 we fight a bit for board position. He gets a Delver and a Young Pyro on board. He has 4 tokens out, a Pyro and a Delver. I have an RiP on the board and play Engineed Plague naming human. His Insect is now tiny on the board and he draws a Young Pyromancer. I had Helm in my hand, and when I knew the coast was clear from counterspells, I cast it for the win.

1-0

W/U/B/G Slivers - apparently this thing Top 8'd an SCG event not long ago??

He wins the die roll.

Game 1 I surprise him with the RiP and Helm combo. He thought RiP was just there for Treasure Cruise, as I'd told him I was expecting it tonight. Was my first time at the place so no clue what the meta was. Apparently my Round 1 opponent was the only one playing U/R Delver.

Game 2 he gets out 3 Pump Slivers fast thanks to Vial and destroys me.

Game 3. I IoK him and see Muscle Sliver and 3 Galerider Slivers - take the Muscle. He beats down with 3 Galerider Sliver before I cast Engineered Plague. I have a Bob, an RiP, Engineered Plague and a Top on the board. He has a Predatory Sliver and a Hibernation Sliver. I make him discard a Harmonic Sliver. Nice! He then starts just top-decking lands. He keeps double attacking then bouncing the Predatory Sliver - I block with Bob before he uses Vial to put it back in before damage. His EoT I'm down to 3 life, use Top and find Helm with 5 mana on the board. He asks if I have the combo since he wins next turn if I don't. Untap and win. Sweet!

2-0

Death & Taxes

I roll snake eyes and he wins the die roll. Seriously??

Game 1 He plays a land and says go. I T1 IoK and grab Mother of Runes. He plays Thalia and says go. I cast Karakas and bounce his Thalia. Sweet Time Walk! Next turn I cast SFM and I win via SFM into Batterskull/keeping his hand empty of threats via discard.

Game 2 he wins via MoR, Thalia and Serra Avenger stopping my Faerie tokens from blocking.

Game 3 was so epic. I seriously thought he had it, he T2 SFM's getting Batterskull. I cast T2 Bitterblossom for some serious chump blocks. He goes to 28 I think? I hardcast SoFaI, equip it and take out the 2 SFM's he has on the board, then cast LotV to have him sac the Batterskull token. I'm building an army of faeries but am losing life and he was at 20-something. I use LotV to control the board but if he can get some blockers against my Sword wielding faerie then it could be trouble (he had Vial in play). I topdeck a Zealous Persecution and hit him for 10 with the SoFaI/all the tokens. I am at 4(?) when I finally manage to get him to 0. Great game!

3-0

Burning Reanimator Tendrils

I win the die roll! YES!

Reanimator deck and I'm on the play? NICE. I play Fetchland, pass with a land and a RiP in my hand - note, at this point I do not know what he's playing. He T1 Griselbrand's… Gah! He then decides to be fancy and uses Burning Wish to combo win. Gotta show off the sweet deck!

Game 2 he mulls and I think I do too. He doesn't have the T1 win, I cast Rest in Peace. Yes! I then cast SFM into Batterskull and beat him for 5 a turn and that's game.

Game 3 he mulls to 5. I play fetch land, he casts T1 Petal and LED. Oh crap am I dead? Nope, he was scared of discard. Smart man - I Hymn him. I then get an RiP into play and Bitterblossom tokens with a SoFaI for the win.

4-0

RiP was awesome. It's amazing vs Cruise but also good against Tarmogoyf, DRS, etc. Most decks use the GY in some way, and if they don't - it's not a dead card thanks to Helm. RiP is also why I played Bitterblossom instead of Souls. This version is more control-y and true to the original Deadguy Ale deck so BB is great for keeping mana open as it generates offense/defense.

I love it. Very cool idea and nice run.

Have you thought about using something like Chrome Mox to accelerate into a T1 2-drop? You can pin extra RIPs or discard to it, and it gets you closer to casting Helm.

What about Enlightened Tutor instead of/in addition to SDT to find your bullets?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maharis

I love it. Very cool idea and nice run.

Have you thought about using something like Chrome Mox to accelerate into a T1 2-drop? You can pin extra RIPs or discard to it, and it gets you closer to casting Helm.

What about Enlightened Tutor instead of/in addition to SDT to find your bullets?

---

I'd considered Mox but the deck would lose some of its control for speed and speed's not really what it's about. BB's so great because it is both offense and defense in the now and later. Tutor's the same thing - don't know what I'd cut. Maybe a LotV for one, but even then - Helm is a secondary win con despite the #s it gave last night and RiP's a 4-of.

I've been pondering RiP for a long time. I just have a hard time believing that sacrificing Deathrite Shaman and Lingering Souls would be worth it. And how was LotV without Lingering Souls?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirrislegend

I've been pondering RiP for a long time. I just have a hard time believing that sacrificing Deathrite Shaman and Lingering Souls would be worth it. And how was LotV without Lingering Souls?

---

LotV was great. Because of Bitterblossom making threats, you can discard decent-ish cards to keep your opponent's hand empty/their board clear. She was often used as creature removal as well.

The way I saw it, RiP hurts most decks in the meta. If you make it not hurt you by removing a few cards, then it's a 1-sided effect. Removing DRS and Souls did that, and made it a 2 colour deck thus enabling Swamps and Plains which are an added bonus vs Blood Moon type decks.

Seems like a sweet build -- I like the mainboard Rest In Peace a lot.

Quick question: How do you sideboard against Burn? I played a Deadguy-ish build at my local this past Monday and lost to Burn twice, having left Leyline of Sanctity at home and failed to consider Circle of Protection: Red as an Enlightened Tutor target from the sideboard.

With your list, I can see boarding out 2x Thoughtseize and the Engineered Plague, but what else? Seems like you want the 4x Leylines and maybe also maybe Vindicate as an extra out against permanents that do 4-6+ to us like Eidolon and Sulfuric Vortex...

Part of my reluctant to bring Leyline was fear of flipping it up with Bob. So yeah, thoughts?