[Deck] Death and Taxes

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Originally Posted by Mad Mat

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I agree with pretty much all of that. I do think there is something to Shalai, a Vial on 4, and Karakas. But I concur that the conditional nature of that setup is discouraging.

As for Holy Light, it's basically the only choice in its role for mono-white. Declaration in Stone is no substitute since it will not remove TNN, and otherwise provides the opponent card advantage. People with black or red splashes have better options.

I'm likely returning to a stock list for a bit, with 1 Prelate, 2 Avengers, 2-3 Crusaders, and 0-1 Brimaz. Aggression seems good right now. My main question is which two of CP, LRW, or Prelate #2 to have in the SB.

I am still all in on testing Shalai. It was always game ending for me at the SCG Team Open and in earlier events and testing, but I think Bahra and Medea_ are correct about Karakas being a very real problem.

I would put it like this: In WW, it is the best CMC 4 play because it is so disruptive, however, maybe there isn't any actually good CMC 4 play and 2 Serra Avenger is the right call. In Wr, it does not compare favorably with P+K, which we are happy to have opponents bounce with Karakas for value and which is Human and therefore has more synergy with Cavern of Souls.

@Prelate: again Kolagans command is the culprit here. This issue makes me really like Shalai. A friend of mine took my deck to the Kegacy side event at the GP over the weekend with my suggestion to run Shalai. He only had one and only got her out in a single game. It was against Grixis Delver and it was kinda win-more. But he said it felt powerful. Anecdotal...

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Originally Posted by Medea_

Check the decklist tab of Thraben University (linked in my signature) for some example decklists. I also put up an article today that touches on the idea of the stock decklist right now.

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Thanks will do!

What is the reason for the recent change from 2x Gideon in the sideboard to 2x Cataclysm? Especially in a more Mentor-heavy Miracles environment.

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Originally Posted by achaye

What is the reason for the recent change from 2x Gideon in the sideboard to 2x Cataclysm? Especially in a more Mentor-heavy Miracles environment.

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I don't think Gideon is all that good against Czech Pile or Stoneblade. Its interesting that you bring up Mentor, because Cataclysm seems significantly better against Mentor. Gideon's not going to do much against an army while Cataclysm can stem the bleeding by restricting their mana.

I was streaming the other day when someone brought up Luminarch Ascension. In the matchups that you traditionally want Gideon, against slower control/midrange decks, it actually seems potentially similar to me. Being a 2 instead of a 4 is huge, and you kind of force them to play more aggressively with Deathrite activations and creatures to turn you off of it. It seems more specifically targeted at Miracles, but that is the most popular control deck right now.

Well, I believe Gideon is actually better vs Czech Pile than Cataclysm. Good Czech Pile players often recover quite fast from the latter. They'll keep a Strix, a DRS and a land, and if you don't have the full RiP/equipment/creature package on board, which you won't, their board will be better, even if you get rid of 2 planeswalkers. They usually also will have lands in hand, as they keep them to get better value off their brainstorms. So resolving a Cataclysm can be pretty tricky. Whereas Gideon usually will take over the game by creating overwhelming creature advantage. You could even +1 it, since they don't have access to StP and it clocky them pretty efficiently.

Yet, Cataclysm is much better versus Miracle and Lands than Gideon. And most definitely versus Mentor versions against Miracle. Or WW DnT versus Lands (since they won't be able to efficiently waste/ghost the manabase).
Both those decks need a high land-count to operate efficiently,so putting them back on 1 land is quite constraining. And they usually have good answers to Gideon (Council Judgement's/Terminus/StP/Mentor in Miracle and Chasm lock/Maze of Ith/Molten Vortex/Tireless Tracker/Punishing Fire in Lands). I'd be careful though versus lands, not to slam cataclysm with them having access to Loam. This can backfire quite drastically.

Cataclysm is also a pretty good card in some other matchups like Monored Control/Prison or 12Post Eldrazi. But Gideon is definitely better in aggro Eldrazi matchup.

So, which of the 2 cards you want to play is quite up to you, and the expected metagame, or the matchups you're least confident in.

Versus any TNN deck, neither Gideon nor Cataclysm do much, so I'd advocate against siding them in.

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Originally Posted by achaye

What is the reason for the recent change from 2x Gideon in the sideboard to 2x Cataclysm? Especially in a more Mentor-heavy Miracles environment.

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From my FAQ on Thraben University:

"Which is better in the sideboard: Cataclysm or Gideon?
Both cards are reasonable and have their own strengths. Cataclysm can sweep planeswalkers off the board, deal with specialized decks (e.g. Enchantress), and wreck decks that rely on having many lands (e.g. Miracles, Big Eldrazi). Cataclysm tends to be a bit better when you are behind, but there are some spots where you simply cannot cast it out of fear of losing the game or sacrificing too many permanents.

Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is a more flexible card. It serves as counter hate to -1/-1 effects, produces bodies turn after turn against control decks, and presents an incredibly swift clock when left unchecked. Gideon is a bit worse when you are behind on board, as there is a fear of the token being removed and then it dying to your opponent’s creature. When you are ahead or at parity though, he will warp a game around him very quickly."

Hello everyone! I've been testing GW DNT a bit and I wanted to share some of my experiences and impressions. I hope you enjoy and please let me know if I need to clarify anything!

GW DNT
List:
3 Plains
3 Savannah
2 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
2 Arid Mesa
1 Flooded Strand
3 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Mother of Runes
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Flickerwisp
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Vryn Wingmare
4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte


3 Path to Exile
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Rest in Peace
1 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Containment Priest
2 Choke
1 Renegade Rallier

This is the current GW list that I have landed on for now. I am moving some cards in and out (some of which I will discuss) and there’s a lot of testing left to do, but I have had some great results with this build in the current meta and I wanted to share!

Choices:
I’ll skip a lot of choices and focus on more of the interesting includes, to better explain why I think this deck has at least some game over traditional DNT.

Shalai: There’s not much more to say about Shalai in this build that’s different from other builds. I’ve yet to find a situation where the activated ability is relevant, and I don’t think playing green with the ability in mind has any bearing whatsoever on the choice. Overall, however, I’ve had a decent amount of success with it and I am relatively happy with including Shalai for now.

Gaddock Teeg: A good reason to splash green, but not a great one. Teeg has never felt that bad in any of my games but has never really been stellar either. I think it’s still worth an include for increased game against storm, miracles, and some other decks I’m not thinking of as a tutor-able creature (and it survives dread of night!) but I can see sanctum prelate filling a similar role but being more niche.

Tireless Tracker: Tracker has been THE reason to splash green. I started with one and quickly went up to two because every time I have drawn tracker it has been relevant, impactful, and just plain good. I can’t sing praises for this card high enough in practice. Against grindy decks this is exactly what’s needed to draw into more threats and keep up the pressure. Against combo, it is a large body that helps draw lock pieces (as long as you aren’t already dead) and is definitely less impactful but was still a card I wasn’t unhappy to see. It also provides benefits for fetchlands, grows bigger than opposing creatures, and is just an overall house. If you splash green, splash for at least two of these (fairly diminishing returns after two I believe, but a place for testing). I LOVE THIS CARD.

Qasali Pridemage: A surprising house. There are a lot of enchantments and artifacts that are good to kill, you can sometimes get a 2-for-1 because it’s a good threat, and it has a lot of all-around utility. I didn’t board it out too often and brought the sideboard one in quite a bit. This card over-performed for me and is a great answer to a lot of things in Legacy right now.

Choke: The other reason to splash green, especially in the meta. This card was incredibly potent in every game I brought it in and won me several games that I might not have been able to win otherwise. It’s an extremely potent sideboard card and is great in the current meta.

Renegade Rallier: A sideboard card for the grind. It’s been great when I bring it in against non-StP removal heavy decks, but otherwise is fairly mediocre. Worth a sideboard slot but not for the maindeck, in my opinion. Might be worth testing but I don’t think I will bother with it.

Sylvan Library: A notable missing from the list. I am currently going without because I was almost never happy to see the one sideboard copy and tireless tracker already helps with card advantage and is also a threat. It felt pretty bad, even when I did want it. Best against miracles (and probably Czech pile, didn’t test that enough) but our matchup there is already greatly improved by tracker and choke. It greatly under-performed for me, but a card to keep in mind for sideboard decisions.

Voice of Resurgence: Another card I had for a bit that severely underperformed. I thought it would help prevent some blowouts in combat and provide a good tool against removal but even when it felt alright it didn’t perform that well and didn’t improve the matchups it was for from what I can tell. Might be worth another look later on, but for now I am off it.

Yisan, the Wanderer Bard: I don’t have high hopes for this card, and I’d rather just play tracker. If other people have success with it I might take another look but for now I am off it.

Overall impression:

The deck has performed above my expectations. I was on RW for a bit, hedging to a traditional W build when RW didn’t perform overall. The traditional build has seemed pretty good, but a lot of players are starting to pack sideboard hate for DNT specifically on top of the general sweepers and other hate they have for Delver and some of the other creature decks around. Tracker and Choke greatly punished these decks and provide more card advantage and extra hate that gives us more tools to attack them with. I had some concern with the mana-base as other splash builds have as well, but the decks that punish us for this mana base are also greatly hurt by it by the cards we gain in splashing green from my experience.

Miracles is our most-improved matchup. Tracker and Choke shine here, along with our usual grind game-plan. So for I’ve faced the mentor build, back to basics build, and a more traditional build (never saw what their win-con was but there was a lot of permission). Gaddock Teeg and Qasali Pridemage were also relevant depending on their build and the games felt relatively easy. Could just be luck but I think that it looks a little better on paper as well. Other decks felt pretty great and, in most matchups, the green splash either gave me a new tool or, at the very least, didn’t hinder my usual plan against the deck. I haven’t tested enough against Grixis Delver or Czech Pile, but Delver has felt pretty good (green doesn’t generally hurt us here) and pile has felt a bit better. Red Prison has also seemed like an improved matchup as pridemage can get us through ensnaring bridge more reliably and Teeg is nearly game over for them depending on the build. I’ve felt pretty good piloting the deck and it’s been fun. Time will tell if it is a viable build, but I believe it has some legs, especially in the current meta.

TL;DR:

I think green is currently worth the splash, but it needs a lot more testing.

Props to the people who experimented with this before, I’ve heard ramblings and got a list online although I can’t find it now. If there’s any questions on choices, matchups, or on my impressions of the deck I’ll be happy to talk about it!

Thanks everyone, that actually makes a lot of sense. I didn't think Cataclysm would be all that great against the Mentor builds because leaving a single Mentor and a land while continuing to Ponder/Brainstorm off of that one land is really bad news for us, but I can see why it's certainly better than a Gideon still. I think I'm going to try a 1/1 split between Cataclysm and Gideon to hedge against the different decks that they're better at (Cataclysm vs Lands, Mono-red Prison, Eldrazi, Miracles, and Gideon vs Czech Pile, DnT mirror, Maverick, etc).

Luminarch Ascension is interesting, but I fear that with the amount of Abrupt Decay out there (plus lots of Miracles run Disenchant and/or Wear//Tear on the side), the 4-turn minimum setup is too much of a task to undertake. It also makes for a particularly bad top-deck unless you're at minimum at parity with your opponent (again, due to the minimum 4-turn setup).

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Originally Posted by Redpanda1217

Hello everyone! I've been testing GW DNT a bit and I wanted to share some of my experiences and impressions. [...]

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Tinkering with G myself a bit, I wanted to know if you've considered Scavenging Ooze yet - and if so, why you chose not to run it/include it in your list of card choice explanations? :)

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Originally Posted by colo

Tinkering with G myself a bit, I wanted to know if you've considered Scavenging Ooze yet - and if so, why you chose not to run it/include it in your list of card choice explanations? :)

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There's not really enough green in the deck to support scavenging ooze, nor does it play well with StP and the fact we don't generally kill creatures. As far as stopping graveyard combo it's not very potent and holding up the mana slows down our game plan of killing them before they combo off. A deck like Maverick is much better suited to take advantage of ooze as it's slower and is great at getting and using green mana. Adding more green mana to help take advantage of it would expose even more of our mana base and it's not clear if splashing is worth it yet. It's a good question though, I hope that clears up my reasoning for not including it!

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Originally Posted by colo

Tinkering with G myself a bit, I wanted to know if you've considered Scavenging Ooze yet - and if so, why you chose not to run it/include it in your list of card choice explanations? :)

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I feel like a lot of that would depend on the number of green sources in the deck - however, for what you are trying to accomplish I imagine RIP is just generally better.

Ooze would be a very potent mainboard answer for Deathrite Shaman and even Snapcaster Mage (you only need G open for that), dodges -1/-1 hate, and is easy to cast, tutor, and vial in. That's why I'm advocating for it. In addition to that, with what the format looks like now, there's going to be plenty of bodies at least in D&T's graveyard if you're in any kind of interactive game.

What I've been doing is including more 3/3 creatures with relevant abilities. Serra Avenger, Stalking Leonin, Eldrazi Displacer, one or two Shalai, and I'm considering testing a couple Benalish Marshal. Yes, they still 'die to Bolt' but it stems the bleeding from Shock effects like KCommand and Forked Bolt to just run slightly bigger dudes. It goes a long way in combat math also, allowing 1-1 trades with the likes of Mongoose and Leovold.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of testing an equipment-less build with 2-3 Benalish Marshal and 2-3 Honor of the Pure. A 5/5 Mirran Crusader is a fearsome beast, even without damage triggers. Of course Jitte would have to stay... but Stoneforge->Batterskull is too slow to accomplish most of the time. It's also a nice hedge against -X/-X sweepers, weakening Golgari Charm & Company and forcing them to pay more life for Deluge, wiping more of their board at the same time.

Or a 5/5 or 6/6 Avenger... giggling at those cute li'l Goyfs from her perch in the sky as she beats their face in.

Oof. Went 1-2-1 at our local last night, losing to W/B Stax (Humility, Abyss, Crucible, other goodies), Merfolk (piloted by my girlfriend, both losses were to multiple True Names), drawing against Czech Pile (I had him dead on board in turns, but he brainstormed into Marsh Casualties and Dread of Night to draw), and beating UW StoneBlade (Vial meant I never had to cast a spell, and could port his mana freely).

It didn't feel like the deck was underpowered, just a few bad draws and wacky situations. Fun night.

Is anyone else playing against a lot of big mana decks lately? I am seeing a lot of Metalworker/Big Eldrazi decks. I am actually wondering about going back to a 3rd Phyrexian Revoker.

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Originally Posted by redtwister

Is anyone else playing against a lot of big mana decks lately? I am seeing a lot of Metalworker/Big Eldrazi decks. I am actually wondering about going back to a 3rd Phyrexian Revoker.

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Besides the usual 4C & Grixis Delver... I see a lot of maverick & Red Prison.

Edit: I haven't missed the 3rd Revoker much

Turbo Depths and Red Prison are the two things I've been seeing significantly more online.

Isn't walking ballista a good reason to play more revokers if we see more mono-red prison? (for depths, it's useless as it cannot target lands)
It's a very good card against us no? (However, i've no idea on wether the matchup is good or bad).

I don't know which lists you're looking at, but Prison doesn't play Ballista.

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Originally Posted by bakofried

I don't know which lists you're looking at, but Prison doesn't play Ballista.

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Yeah, Ballista is in Steel Stompy and new Cloudpost-Metalworker decks, not Mono-Red Prison.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...planeswalkers/

Arena Rector 3W

When it dies, you may exile it, and if you do, search for a PW and put it into play.

1/2

Not the most viable. I do see some cute plays though. Main one Gideon or Elspeth to grab, and free up sideboard for Cataclysm.

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Originally Posted by Tristin183

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...planeswalkers/

Arena Rector 3W

When it dies, you may exile it, and if you do, search for a PW and put it into play.

1/2

Not the most viable. I do see some cute plays though. Main one Gideon or Elspeth to grab, and free up sideboard for Cataclysm.

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Not viable in this deck at all. Certainly viable in Nic Fit.

I would like to splash only to play 1 magus maindeck and another magus in the sideboard.
I was searching for the article on thrabenuniversity about the mana base but the website is down.
How can I maximise the number of basic plains? I'm thinking about cutting caverns.

Something like (i would like to play 23 lands):
4 port
4 wasteland
4 fetch
2 plateau
3 karakas
6 plains

Is it viable? Maybe I need 1 more fetch? Can someone do the math for me?
:laugh:

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Originally Posted by pedro

I would like to splash only to play 1 magus maindeck and another magus in the sideboard.
I was searching for the article on thrabenuniversity about the mana base but the website is down.
How can I maximise the number of basic plains? I'm thinking about cutting caverns.

Something like (i would like to play 23 lands):
4 port
4 wasteland
4 fetch
2 plateau
3 karakas
6 plains

Is it viable? Maybe I need 1 more fetch? Can someone do the math for me?
:laugh:

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Site is back up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pedro

I would like to splash only to play 1 magus maindeck and another magus in the sideboard.
I was searching for the article on thrabenuniversity about the mana base but the website is down.
How can I maximise the number of basic plains? I'm thinking about cutting caverns.

Something like (i would like to play 23 lands):
4 port
4 wasteland
4 fetch
2 plateau
3 karakas
6 plains

Is it viable? Maybe I need 1 more fetch? Can someone do the math for me?
:laugh:

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Concerning the splash manabase, you are mostly balancing the ability to cast your splash spells as reliably as possible and the ability to stabilize your manabase with basics as reliably as possible. This seems to favor a semi-equal split of fetch and basics, as long as you're not running cavern and you're not adjusting for an expected metagame (i.e. either low or high in nonbasic hate, as well as the likelihood of encountering stifle).

That said, I think the biggest card to splash red for is Pia and Kiran Nalaar, because it single-handedly warps the control match-ups so much. But because of P&K's double red, you want extra red sources and you also tend to rely significantly on magus to fix your mana. Hence, I think a minor red splash is suboptimal: either you go for all the goodstuff or you don't splash for it.

Hello fellow DnT'ers,

my name is Marian and I'm currently living in the far north of Germany (Flensburg). I have been playing A LOT of Magic "back in the days", but Legacy was never a favorite of mine until I moved to Flensburg and found a realy nice, friendly and open Legacy community with about 15-25 players each FNM and a regular bigger Tournament series (http://www.eternal-clash.com/start/ for those who are interested). We even reached over a 100 players at the Last Eternal Clash.
As a lot of new Legacy players I was overwhelmed by the amount of decks you could play in the format so I started with borrowing some different kind of decks (from Grixis Delver over 4c Loam to even Goblins) from realy nice guys here in the area. As a competitive player I'm always looking at the top decks of the Meta and as soon I played DnT for the first time (even though it isnt T1 at the moment) , I was hooked and until now I never looked back. This was about a year ago and I played the deck quite a lot at some of the MKM Series Tournaments and at local events too.
So last Weekend the MKM Series took place in Hamburg Germany (http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/cov...g-2018-legacy/) and a lot of our community packed their Legacy Decks and where ready to rumble on Sunday in the Mainevent.
I wanted to share my tournament experience with you guys and girls to give more data and information to the DnT community. Im wirting this out of memory without any notes so bare with me if something isnt 100% accurate and feel free to ask questions.

So here we go!

I played a Legacy Trial already on friday which didnt go too well (1:2 drop). I won against Grixis Delver in the first round and lost to 4c Control (with Punishing Fire and Dack Fayden) and Elves (GRRRR...).
The second day of the event must have been one of the worst days of my Magic life with a 0:3 drop in the Modern mainevent, then my waterbottle broke in my bag (luckily no cards where damaged) and in the evening my favorite football club (I won't call it soccer) lost the german cup final...So I wasnt to motivated and was even considering to change my DnT decklist due to the bad results on friday. I talked with some friends and a lot with another fellow DnT player who decided to run a weird list without Mother of Runes and 4 Chalice of the Void sideboard.

I'm a big fan of consistency at bigger events so in the end I stayed on the somewhat "stocklist" of WW DnT. Here is what I was familiar with and ended up registering for the tournament (260 players, so 9 rounds of action):

Maindeck:

1x Cavern of Souls
3x Karakas
4x Rishadan Port
4x Wasteland
11x Plains

4x Mother of Runes
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Flickerwisp
2x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Serra Avenger
2x Recruiter of the Guard
2x Mirran Crusader
1x Sanctum Prelate
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty

1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Batterskull
4x Aether Vial
4x Swords to Plowshares

Sideboard:

1x Containment Priest
1x Leonin Relic-Warder
1x Sword of War and Peace
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Path to Exile
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Rest in Peace
2x Council's Judgement
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar


Round 1: Sneak & Show (2:1)

This is what a lot of us know. Youre driving a couple of hours to a bigger event to play against a player of your community...at least I got to play against those sweet Beta duals ;)
If I remember correctly we played a quite normal G1 where I got to poke him a bit and when he resolved his Show and Tell he could only activate his Griselbrand one time and I had a Karakas already in play. So he drew 7 cards I bounced the
Griselbrand eot and I was a bit lucky he couldnt go off in the one turn he had left before my creatures just poked him to death.
I lost game 2 fast to a turn 2 or 3 Show and Tell.
Game 3 was realy tight. He started with some cantrips while I established my board with SfM (getting SoWaP) some other dudes and even got the time to equip my sword to my Crusader. My first attack was stopped by a Rushing River but I could just use my Vial and SfM to bring in Crusader and Sword again eot. My second attack with Crusader knocked him down to 1 and Stone Rained him twice, because he couldnt use his fetch or tomb any longer.
Even though he had Omniscience in his deck I was lucky he never could cheat it into play.

So off to a good start.

Overall = 1:0

Round 2: Naya Fires (Maverick without Black but more Red) (0:2)

Not much to tell here. He won G1 with the Fire/Grove engine and in G2 I mulled to a good Mana Denial hand with Port/Wasteland/Plains but also the Batterskull in my opener. I drew several Lands in a row and he established his board with a turn 2 Tireless Tracker and turn 3 Knight and just went to Valuetown without me ...

Back to reality.

Overall = 1:1

Round 3: Sneak & Show (2:1)

G1 was close but I had the right tools at the right Time. I poked him in the beginning of the game and when he played his Show and Tell I used my Vial to get a Revoker into play on Griselbrand. He cheated in his Omniscience while I could had a Flickerwisp which could stop him from casting big scary Spaghetti monsters for free. He played a Wish in response on Intuition and got his 15 mana dude, but I had exactly Lethal in the one turn I had left.
G2 was the usual Sneak & Show stuff.
I can't remember much of G3 but iirc he couldnt find a creature and my Thalia did some work taxing his Mana.

Not even a resolved Omniscience could stop me here.

Overall = 2:1

Round 4: Grixis Delver with Stifle (2:0)

In G1 my Opponent kept a hand without any threats but a lot of counters and 2 Stifle. It took him to long to find any answers or a clock for my first 2 resolved creatures.
In G2 he kept a very sketchy hand with 2 Delver one Land but no cantrips. I had the Wasteland and a StP, so his clock was to slow. A Thalia and some turns later reached out for the handshake.

Beat the "Deck to Beat"

Overall = 3:1

Round 5: Steel Stompy (2:1)

A very nice opponent and a super tight game 3! I havent played a lot against this deck, but I see it rising more and more and I guess this match up isnt the best for us.
I start game 1 with Vial, SfM (fetching SoFaI). My opponent had a decent but not overwhelming start with Turn one Thorn and some minor beaters. He took 10 dmg total from his two Tombs and I got one of my Avengers on the Battlefield and equipped it as soon as possible with my SoFaI. I had to chump his Loadstone Golem one or two times and he did the same with his Vault Scourge to my Avenger. He couldnt find a way to handle my flyer and I took the game.
In game 2 I got crushed by two Golems.
As already mentioned game 3 was super close. I remember the last couple of turns. I had 3 active vials but just one land in play. I did some dmg to my opponent with SfM and a Flickerwisp. My opponent had a Spyglass in play shutting down my SfM because I had the Batterskull sitting in my hand. Then he played a Revoker and in response I used one of my Vials to get a Recruiter into play. I grabbed my Leonin Relic-Warder and took out his Spyglass to free my SfM. The next turn I attacked with my whole Team, which was a mistake. He blocked my Relic-Warder with his Revoker, got back his Spyglass and the "As trigger" shut down my Vials before I could response to it. He was able to stabilize at 1 Life because I couldnt find my 2. and 3. land for the Judgement in my hand. Some turns and a Karakas on my site of the battlefield later he played an Etched Champion, while having a Ravager and Overseer already in play. He used his overseer in his turn and attacked me down to 17 only leaving his Etched Champion back. This was a mistake on his site, because he knew about the judgement in my hand (Spyglass). I Topdecked the 3rd land, used the judgement on his Champion and my lonely Recruiter finished the job.

Guess we will be facing this more in the future so be prepared!

Overall: 4:1

Round 6: Sneak & Show (2:1)

This again....3rd time and quite the same type of Games.
Lost game 1 to a turn 2 Show and Tell = Omni = 15/15 Spaghetti.
Game 2 was a lot of cantrips but no rewards on my opponents side.
Game 3 was a lot of cantrips again on his site and some usuals DnT stuff on my side (SfM for SoWaP, Mom and some other Dudes of Vial). Then the important turn were about to happen. At this point I had a Mom, SfM (equipped with SoWaP), Crusader, Revoker (shutting down my opponents Sneak Attack) and Karakas on the field. My opponent on 5 life started his last turn with 5 cards in his hand. He casts a Show & Tell and gets an Omniscience into play, which I cant answer at this point. Griselbrand comes into play but he cant use him to draw cards due to his low lifepoints. Blood Moon wants to enter the Battlefield and in Response I use my useless Karakas to bounce the Griseldaddy just to see him in play one second later again. The Last card in my opponents hand is a Pyroclasm. I protect my Crusader from it and in my turn I equip the SoWaP to my Crusader swing for lethal with protection from black.

3rd resolved Omniscience beaten...

Overall: 5:1

Round 7: Eldrazi Stompy (1:2)

Even though I played 3 Wastelands in Game one my opponent managed to draw 3 Tombs, 2 Cities and a Temple to get his Aliens fast enough onto the Battlefield.
I was under a lot of pressure in the beginning of game 2 but with some help of Judgement, StP and Gideon I manage to take this game home.
Also the 3rd game starts with a lot of pressure on my opponents side. Turn one 2/2 Endless One into turn two Thought-Knot which I can handle with trigger on the stack. The first Smasher hits me together with the Endless one. I flash in my Containment Priest eot to get rid of the Smasher for good with one of my Flickerwisps. My opponent plays Smasher number 2, I trade the Endless one for my wisp and exiled the Smasher with a Judgement in my turn. Im at 5 life at this point trying to stabilize the board with Thalia + Karakas, Revoker on Endbringer which already was in play for my opponent together with the Thought-Knot Seer. I even manage to get my Shali onto the battlefield and was hoping for a piece of removal or equipment. A 3rd Smasher from the top later I reach out for the handshake.

Stupid Trample Aliens...

Overall: 5:2

Round 8: R/G/u Lands (Tolaria West, Academy Ruins + Engineered Explosives) (2:0)

This is one of the "not even close" category. I know my opponent and we play 2 very fast but entertaining (at least for me) games.
I start Game one on the play with a Vial. My opponent plays an EE on one which I can negate with a Revoker on my second turn. A Thalia, Prelate on 2 and one or two Wastelands later my opponent wants to use his sideboard.
Game 2 is onesided again. I can use surgical on his Loam, shut down his Mox Diamond with a Revoker and on top of that I Wasteland him three times. Never had such onesided matches against lands until now.

If you have it all, you just have it all!

Overall: 6:2

Round 9: U/B Deathshadow (2:0)

Interesting Deck. One of my friends lost to BUG Deathshadow in round 8 (Berserk ftw), so I assumed this was his opponent. Game one is as aspected. He takes a lot of damage from his own lands, Street Wraith and Probes kills some of my early creatures but he is not able to handle my Crusader. I was scared to lose to Deathshadow + Berserk out of nowhere but my opponent only fetched for Useas and Watery Grave.
My opponent takes a mulligan and keeps a onelander with Probe, Street Wraith and a Brainstorm. His to cycle cards are not able to find him a second land and the Brainstorm locks him out of the Game.
We talked a bit about his deck afterwards and he was straight UB with no answers to a resolved Crusader in Game 1. One or two tables to the right was the guy with the BUG Deathshadow deck.

Who could have guessed that the last two rounds where the ones most onesided.

Overall: 7:2


I finished the tournament on 13th place which Im super happy with. I managed to dodge Elves which there are a lot of in northern Europe. The Top 8 with 3 Turbo Depths, 2 Red Prison and Belcher was quite strange but I guess this is what a lot players are recognizing these days. More Land dependent combo decks and the prison deck which tries to punish greedy manabases and 20/20 tokens.

Im glad that I played the stock DnT list in the end. Even though I didnt play against one control deck (4C Control, Miracles or even Grixis Control) I feel like the Shalai is good enough for the Deck. I would gladly play 2 of them but I just don't know how to fit it into the Deck without cutting important pieces.

I was able to use all my sideboard cards and wouldnt change anything for a tournament of this size. SoWaP was the Sideboard MVP against all the Sneak & Show players. Avenger did a lot of work which im super happy to see, because I was close to cutting them out of the maindeck.

I hope this is not too much or too boring/hard to read and understand because Im not used to write too much in english.
Feel free to leave some feedback or questions!

Have a nice day wherever you are and may your Vials always be cast on turn one!

Hi Tyres!
I was also at MKM Hamburg, I was looking the area for other DnT players, but haven't seen you.. I ended up going 5-4 with same list except the SB I got +2 cataclysm instead of 1 Leonin-relic warder and 1 Gideon!
I lost twice against Chech Pile in extra rounds in game 3. This matchup feels so hard after SB. They got so much removal, I feel like you have to be a bit lucky to win SB games....

I like the Shalai also very much. If you have a Karakas and vial on 4, its nearly unbeatable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tristin183

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...planeswalkers/

Arena Rector 3W

When it dies, you may exile it, and if you do, search for a PW and put it into play.

1/2

Not the most viable. I do see some cute plays though. Main one Gideon or Elspeth to grab, and free up sideboard for Cataclysm.

---

This is definitely not viable in D&T, but it might see play in Nic Fit. I can imagine fetching up Vraska or Garruk Apex Predator is pretty dope, or other dumb stuff like Karn, Ugin or NicoB.

You mean the exact ones they've been talking about already on the nic fit thread?

So just to throw it out here, what do you guys think of the following D&T list?
I've been running a colorless splash (seems the right word for it) for a while now, mixed up with some green before for Teeg main and Choke side, but with the introduction of Daredevil I swapped to red, witch made my mana more smooth at the same time since I could add more Caverns to drop on Human.

Mana (23):
6 Plains
2 Karakas
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Wasteland

Spells (11):
4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Creatures (26):
4 Mother of runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Dire Fleet Daredevil
1 Mangara of Corondor

Sideboard (15):
3 Lotus Petal
2 Rest in Peace
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Declaration in Stone
1 Warping Wail
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Disenchant
1 Wear / Tear

Few quick notes:
I'm not sure about the Revokers and Mangara main, never been much of a fan of main-deck Revokers becouse they always feel a bit awkward to play and are terrible attackers unless you play vs storm.
2 Canonist in SB might be a bit much but I came from 4 Talia + 2 Teeg main to this, so 6 hatebears seems ok.
Love the Lotus Petals side. Ramping out turn 1 Talia is just great is some match-ups. Same for higher chance of turn 2 Tought-Knot.
Displacer is really strong for offense, defense and utility.

@Draggo

My question to you would be why is that deck going to be better than a white eldrazi deck? Here's something that I cooked up that I'll try out at some point this weekend.


4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Vryn Wingmare
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Reality Smasher
2 Palace Jailer
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
4 Lotus Petal
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Battlefield Forge
2 Plains
2 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas

3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Holy Light
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Rest in Peace
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Armageddon

So they just revealed this:

Fumble
1U
Instant
Return target creature to its owners hand. Gain control of all Auras and Equipment that were attached to it, then attach them to another creature.

Apart from being absolutely and absurdly undercosted (Unsummon plus a discounted Copy Artifact plus an equip total up closer to 3UUU), this is likely to be a problem going forward. The card answers several problems that Delver, Pile, Miracles, and other Blue decks want answers to: Marit Lage tokens, reanimated creatures, and equipped creatures. It will be adopted, make no mistake.

The stock of all equipment other than Sword of Fire and Ice just went down significantly against all Blue decks. It is not safe to bring in Batterskull or equip Jitte without backup anymore. The same is true for creatures intended to abuse that equipment.

Countermeasures are largely limited to:
1. Equipping the creature with Sword of Fire and Ice.
2. Having an active Mother of Runes (or Shalai, if you equipped any other creature).
3. Countering the spell by making it miss, either by Vialing in Flickerwisp, using Karakas on a legendary creature, or by hitting your own creature with Swords to Plowshares.
4. Using Flickerwisp to blink your equipment after the fact.

However hard we already had it with equipment right now, it's about to get a lot harder.

I don't know if I'm as doom and gloom as all that. Bounce spells are rare already, and the ones that see common play are far more versatile a la Dead//Gone (Which can be a Shock) or Echoing Truth (which can hit all nonland permanents and hit multiples besides).

1. There are only a few hundred other blue instants that bounce a creature and do some shit. Exactly 0 of which see legacy play. Edict, Dead / Gone, and Plow will continue as the Marit Lage killers.

2. DnT is already not great. The only other equipment deck even fringe viable is 4c Deathblade. No one is boarding a card to hate specifically equipment.

3. WotC has handed this deck so many tools over the last 3 years, while reprinting every bit of it as well.

4. This is legacy. For any given deck, there are likely hundreds of absurd sideboard cards that absolutely crush you, but no one plays. If I wanted to screw with DnT with narrow cards, Dread of Night, Teferi's Response, and Grip of Phyresis already exist.

5. It is wholly unreasonable to be salty about this card existing. If you ever lose to it, you have the right to be salty about losing to unplayable garbage.

Hello Guys,

I whould like some input on my last flex spot.

Im looking at Vryn Wingmare, Thalia 2.0, spirit of the labirinth, or Shalai
My preference is going to Vryn Wingmare for maximal taxing and the fact that it has flying.
Thalia 2.0 is great for aditional taxing, miracles , eldrazi and is a decent body
Spirit of the labirinth i great vs combo but i dont like it with that many young pyromancers.
Salai i havent tested at all, but 4 mana seems to much in D&T

Current build i will run is:

2 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Karakas
9 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland

4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
2 Serra Avenger
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 --------------

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte


2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Rest in Peace
2 surgcal extraction
1 Containment priest
2 Council's Judgment
1 Path to exile
1 Blessed alliance
2 cataclysm
1 pithing needle
1 Leonin Relic-Warder

I will play 3 revoker
I never liked Vryn, weak for 3cmc.
Thalia 2.0 and Shalai are not that bad and I like Spirit but I still prefer the third revoker (we often loose from one single card).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lord Darkview

Countermeasures are largely limited to:
1. Equipping the creature with Sword of Fire and Ice.
2. Having an active Mother of Runes (or Shalai, if you equipped any other creature).
3. Countering the spell by making it miss, either by Vialing in Flickerwisp, using Karakas on a legendary creature, or by hitting your own creature with Swords to Plowshares.
4. Using Flickerwisp to blink your equipment after the fact.

---

BlueStew.dec would also very much prefer to spend one mana on spot removal, and considering this is twice as much with no versatility, there's much better cards they can have. Bolt/Push responding to the equip is much more effective, and annoying.

It's mana-intensive and lacks evasion, but with protection (either from Swords or Mom), it might be an interesting card for racing:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dd-NmAYVAAAzIb7.png