Its okay, but not amazing. Having no protection whatsoever is a mark against it imo...its not better than tusk, sigarda, and upon reflection, I think that both wolfir and chameleon are better than it as well.
Printable View
Its okay, but not amazing. Having no protection whatsoever is a mark against it imo...its not better than tusk, sigarda, and upon reflection, I think that both wolfir and chameleon are better than it as well.
You guys try and dig way too deep.
I agree with Arianrhod about the hydra. Every other 5 drop we play is better than that guy. He's super mopey.
I disagree with him about the wolf though. He's not particularly exciting. As pointed out, Thrun is pretty much always better against the control decks; and we certainly don't need to waste a slot to help with the tempo decks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyT
What do you mean? Trying to find new cards for the archetype or over-thinking the cards' applications?
On the topic of relatively new cards, I was curious about a few in the jund version in particular. Are Rakdos's Return, Sire of Insanity, or Ruric Thar worth playing? Sire just seems insane versus combo and control if you can ramp into it fast and so does ruric thar. I think thar might just harm us too much to be worth playing though. And I'm sure you could cast a pretty big Rakdos's Return after ramping with explorer. It also has the added bonus of killing planeswalkers. Are these cards just out of the question? Have they been tried?
When DotP isn't crashing I'm pretty in love w/ Primeval Bounty. Too bad it triggers on casting. It'd be awesome if you could GSZ out Sigarda _and_ stick the three counters on her. Not sure it'll make the cut, but for anyone still on Rector it probably warrants testing in the Recycle slot (and if you can squeeze both Recycle and Bounty in then you really have the nuts although that's probably EDH fantasy land right there). Combine w/ Haakon, Gravecrawler, Havengul Lich and Flashback spells for maximum hilarity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
In terms of primeval bounty in recto I'm considering replacing faith's fetters with it at least for a bit of testing though it probably should just be oblivion ring. Also I don't think it should be viewed as a replacement for the recycle slot. Recycle actually digs you out of trouble situations or allows you to overwhelm your opponent with card advantage, whereas bounty simply adds effects to cards you are already playing which I guess makes topdecks a little better however it seems like its a bit of a win more card though top shinaningans seem interesting.
On a side note, if anyone is still on rector what do you consider of swapping out Volrath's Stronghold (or less likely Starved Rusalka) for a third Phyrexian Tower post rules change?
Why would you want another Tower? It's still terrible in multiples.
Hey all,
It has been a while since I posted, but I thought it might be cool to share a new version I put together.
I am really starting to love the amount of disruption and control this list has. To me it feels like it has a better MU
vs. control (lingering souls/hymn) and vs. reanimator/show-tell (humility). It includes an Academy package,
basically getting collective blessing out, and beating with tokens (lingering souls, elspeth, deranged hermit).
I would like to have your feedback, especially considering the side-board.
Much appreciated!
Creatures (11):
3 Academy Rector
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Deranged Hermit
Spells (28):
4 Lingering Souls
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Collective Blessing
1 Humility
Lands (21):
2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
3 Swamp
3 Plains
2 Forest
//Sideboard:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Energy Flux
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Peacekeeper
1 Thrun, the last Troll
3 Pithing Needle
3 Extirpate
For the MD have you though about Sorin over Elspeth? I know it sounds odd but it could help out your mana. BB for Hymn and 2WW for Elspeth can be tough in a Forest based deck. You would still then only have Sigarda and Humility as double White spells, but they are for later in the game and for tutoring. That way you can reasonably plan around only searching for only one Plains during the entire game.
Also if Deranged Hermit is an important part of your deck you should put it in there.
For the SB help can you explain what the white Leylines do there? They would be the first thing I cut but maybe they have a reason in your meta. The one Peacekeeper seems odd too because you have no way of searching for it. Energy Flux seems a bit strange, too.
1) Sorin vs Elspeth: actually, that is a very good suggestion. Until now I have not had any problems with the manabase, since phyrexian tower helps out getting the BB for hymn, and Veteran explorer can just get WW (turn 2 Elspeth is nothing to sneeze at). Besides that, I think Sorin's ultimate might be more relevant in legacy. I do love the interaction lingering souls + sorin's emblem +1/+0... I will definitely consider it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tao
2) Deranged Hermit: whoops, -1 GSZ, +1 Hermit, sloppy mistake.
3) SB: the sideboard is strongly resembling my old SB, and might not be as good in this version. Leyline of Sanctity are mostly vs. storm (tendrils). I used to play diabolic intent, which made Peacekeeper tutorable, so not as good in this version either. Energy Flux is used vs. affinity, but might be overkill as I'm running 3 deeds anyway. I don't think the pithing needles and leyline of the void need explanation.
I'm not going to lie, this deck looks fun. Since I have most of the mana base, I think I will go bgw with my build. I could easily switch to GBR since I play The Walking Dead and have the mana base already. Shoot, most of that deck transfers to this one.
[DECK]4 Veteran Explorer
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Sun Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Diabolic Intent
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
4 Forest
4 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Wasteland
Sideboard
3 Pithing Needle
3 Innocent Blood
2 Choke
3 Krosan Grip
2 Damnation
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Angel of Despair
[/DECK]
Honestly, I shoved in a bunch of things I just want to play with. I know there are some great interactions going on here with Sun Titan, Pernicious Deed, and Wasteland. Primal Hunter is a beast and tough for people to deal with because of the 3/3 beasts and the CA he provides. Nothing like pumping out tokens that can't be dealt with by Punishing Fire. I think I have enough hand hate for combo decks. The only deck I fear is Death and Taxes because of the Phyrexian Revoker in the MD.
A couple of questions I have are what cards or decks, create problems for this deck in general?
Quick combos like ant and belcher are the only decks I've found to give nic fit problems. I play scapewish version and run wicket elder for revokers and troublesome artifacts plus u have pdeeds and therapys so being smart with those makes dnt a pretty easy match up
- White Leyline are not a good choice I think. Most Combo decks these days use Show and Tell. Peacekeeper doesn't do anything against modern Show and Tell decks anymore (Omnitell) and Energy Field is too situational imo. I think with 4 Thoughtseizes, 2 Carpet of Flowers in these slots you would be happier.Quote:
Originally Posted by jobdevries
- I think everyone in this thread has at least once gone below 4 Explorer / 4 GSZ before because we wanted more deck space and we all went back to 4/4.
- You do not need Maelstrom Pulse. Just play 4 Abrupt Decay. Pulse is best against Tombstalker and Jace TMS but Lingering Souls is already good against Jace and can stall long enough against Tombstalker. Likewise Sigarda is great against Jace and trades with Tombstalker.
- The arch enemy for Nic Fit is any deck that plays Show and Tell. You will usually lose against them. Also all decks that play Griselbrand and/or Emrakul are a problem. So Omnitell, Sneak and Show, Reanimator and 12-Post are the decks that you don't want to face.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krimson Viper
- Jace TMS is a problematic card, too. He is beatable but his existence turns the UW Control matchups from a bye into a hard fight.
- If you play White as your third color you should play Sigarda. It is the best GSZ target for Nic Fit and red and blue versions envy you for her. Awesome against Jace, awesome against BUG, almost unbeatable for Jund.
[QUOTE=Tao;735592]- The arch enemy for Nic Fit is any deck that plays Show and Tell. You will usually lose against them. Also all decks that play Griselbrand and/or Emrakul are a problem. So Omnitell, Sneak and Show, Reanimator and 12-Post are the decks that you don't want to face.
So what can you use to sideboard for these decks? All I can think of is innocent blood, duress(some kind of hand destruction), and maybe shriek maw, but I don't like maw too much since he can't hit gris.
My sideboard for GB Nic Fit
3 innocent blood
2 duress
3 mindbreak traps
2 nihil spell bomb
2 extirpate
1 surgical extraction
1 kroshan grip
1 beast within
Any suggestions?
Have you guys thought about Strionic Resonator from M14? If there is a Legacy deck with epic ETB-Triggers and enought mana it would be Nic Fit, right? You could copy the abilities from Explorer, Eternal Wittness, Armada Wurm, Academy Rector any Titan. You could even be using the mana from Phyrexian Tower to activate the Resonator.
[QUOTE=xieyun006;735641]If only we had an edict effect with split second!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tao
I'm guessing Angel of Despair would be a good fit. You can find her with Diabolic Intent and we can actually hardcast her (or of course cheat her in with S&T)
So I guess I shouldn't be that afraid of them then? They are the only reason why I chose to run Elesh MD, and got rid of G.Titan, who I really wanted in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaver
I am not sure what slot I should put her in, but I have heard she is great in this deck. How come nobody runs a fatty to answer Show and Tell? I would figure Angel of Despair is an excellent choice for them since she will blow up whatever they put into play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tao
There is not really much we can do about it. Angel of Despair is too specialized. It is good against Show and Tell, but dead against any other Combo. Not only things like ANT and Elves, but also Sneak Attack, Reanimator and 12-post. So it is not worth to fill your SB with barely castable 7-drops that don't do anything 3/4 of the time. You could GSZ/Fierce Empath them to save a few slots, but if your opponent knows about it, it won't do anything except for delaying him.
Like I said, there is not much you can do about it in nonblue nonred versions of Nic Fit. Additional Thoughtseizes are probably your best shot but it won't make the matchup good.
Blue versions have the best chance by dedicating 12-15 SB slots to it but they also use cards to fight Combo in general and not only the "cheating fattie into play" decks (4 Force of Will, 3-4 Negate, 2-4 Thoughtseize, 2-3 Surgical Extraction).
Red versions have nice effective cards in Slaughter Games and Red Blasts, too.
For White versions, they have Gaddock Teeg, but he doesn't really stop much.
In general I don't see much reason to play White without Rector over Red and Blue and Rector is currently not good. Though the Lingering Souls lists are interesting. White gives you Sigarda, but that is about it.
For a new player to the deck I would advice that you try out HoneyT's Punishing Fire list, Arianrhod's Scapewish list and/or Qweerios' BUG Fit list before you start brewing on your own. They are imo currently the strongest versions of the deck. My personal preferences are BUG and Punishing Fire.
The old answers to show and tell (angel of despair, innocent blood) just don't cut it anymore. Griselbrand ruined that. I don't even waste the slots trying to answer SnT any more.