Has anyone tried Mana Tithe in any nonblue Maverick variant? It would give us a way to interact with spells on the stack, it should go reasonably well with our mana denial, and noone would see it coming.
Printable View
Has anyone tried Mana Tithe in any nonblue Maverick variant? It would give us a way to interact with spells on the stack, it should go reasonably well with our mana denial, and noone would see it coming.
Problem with mana tithe is resources - Maverick is quite a mana hungry deck - you don't have any "free" spells, additional with Thalia on table you need to left 2 mana open to cast it - it's just not worth better deploy proactive answer or a thread for this 2 mana.
Well, I figure its main strength is giving us interaction on turn one. This in itself sets it apart. Second, people won't be playing around it early on since our disruption tends to be entirely permanent-based. Third, us playing it occasionally may cause people to play around it even if we later cut it entirely, giving us free advantage. And finally, it's an unreliable but still possible answer to just about any relevant card except for Abrupt Decay. It'll basically never be entirely dead except against something like Manaless Dredge, assuming non-abundant mana of course (basically the same assumpion that makes Daze playable). This makes it possible maindeck material, giving us G1 interaction against decks that are likely to auto-roll us pre-board.
Our game plan is based around pressure and disruption, especially mana denial. A universal soft counter that noone sees coming seems like it ought to merit testing.
Regarding negative Thalia synergy: First, the Tithe might keep us alive to play her. Second, the taxing is likely to bother them more than us. Third, it'll be our choice whether to keep it up or add something to the table. If our only spells are Thalia plus whatever we decided to play in this slot, we're in trouble no matter what. Otherwise, we get to choose. And having one more axis of interaction to choose from seems good to me even if it's unreliable.
Please play mana tithe and do well. Nothing is better than seeing someones face after getting blown out by Mana Tithe
Explain when this would ever be preferable to the black splashes that have access to duress and thoughtseize on turn 1? Lack of availability of dual lands is about the only reason I can think of and that's irrelevant to a competitive discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moroklumpen
First, it's playable in straight GW, which some may prefer for mana stability. If TNN isn't huge in your meta but Wasteland still is a factor, that's relevant. Also, if you decided to go for Punishing Mav instead of junk, it's an option.
Second, it has surprise factor. A combo player is likely to think the coast is clear and decide to go for it before we can land a hatebear, walking straight into it. This can potentially cost him several cards rather than just one (say, he goes ritual, ritual Ad Nauseam or Lotus Petal, S&T).
Third, it can protect against topdecks, which discard doesn't.
Fourth, it works when they have redundant cards in hand.
Fifth, it can't be protected against by floating the key spell on top of the deck with Brainstorm, Top, Ponder or Jace.
Sixth, it's not stopped by Leyline of Sanctity.
Seventh, it can stop.. err... Wilt-Leaf Liege. And that card is a pain. Yeah.
I'm not saying this card is the white daze or anything, but I'm trying to figure out just how close (or far off) it is.
@Moro - Surprising factor works once, maybe two times - it's ok in small local tournament to surprise - on bigger tournament after your "trap" worked, everyone from higher tables will keep on eye those kind of toys - stability is the key not surprising factor. "The dark side" of cards like mana tithe - its useless in middle and late game where you should take advantage over opponent - its dead draw.
If you looking to answer to specify combo better use dedicated hate vs those decks(I would rather play Leyline of Sanctity). Mana Tithe isn't an answer and its really easy to playout - its the reason why force spike doesn't see play anymore since Mono -U control in saga times.
Daze is free you doesn't lose mana (open mana - which you could use) to cast it - its really far far away from it - play test it even in D&T it was dropped (D&T can support it much better with rishadan ports/vial).
Turn 1 is one of the most critical playing a manadork/GSZ/STP is enough reason to not playing such a card like mana tithe.
Isn't Orim's Chant or Silence much better than Mana Tithe?
Neither of those can counter a spell on the stack. I play mana tithe in my modern d&t deck and it catches people offguard game 1. I always side it out game 2 yet the opponent will play suboptimally to play around it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer
You play Silence in resp. to third ritual.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnnny
But as long as Gitaxian Probe is legal, I don't think that many storm pilots will walk into the Tithe/Chant. Fact is that they won't expect anything uly once you go Cavern->MoR or Savannah->Vial, otoh, the chance that they play a GP is quite big.
... Eighth, it's typically worthless out of the first two or three turns as it's a daze effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moroklumpen
Ninth, it requires you to slow play in the first few turns (instead of developing your board or actually making a turn 1 play) to hold up mana for a tax effect.
Tenth, while not "dodge-able" by BS/JTMS/etc. it's completely dodge-able by having an efficient/low curve, or lands.
Eleventh, it's a terrible top deck card.
If you're trying to evaluate how close it is to a daze, just look at how many decks play force spike for a relative comparison. (Hint it's zero). It's also kind of terrible in multiples. Basically the only advantage is the surprise factor from it; which probably won't work more than once or twice and doesn't seem overly consistent for a long tournament. Being bad/irrelevant past turn 3 is a huge strike against it seeing how every single game you have any hope of winning is going to go longer than that.
TS-Lor Standard. GWx Doran Rock vs. Faeries. Doran player's upkeep, Faeries player goes for the usual Mistbind Clique. That one-of Mana Tithe was priceless. Won the game, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
So after copying some tech from GW lists I've seen floating around, I've been running a singleton Bow of Nylea in place of my singleton Elspeth, Knight-Errant. So far, the Bow has been impressive. I already run 2 Jittes and the Bow sometimes feels like Jitte #3; it slices and dices depending on the situation. I like that it can blank a TNN attack, can shoot a Delver/Clique, always makes my attackers profit in combat and gets back my spent gas (GSZ + infinite Pridemage, etc). The fact that it's only a support card and not a threat by itself is annoying, but I've been finding Bow's versatility is usually more relevant than Elspeth's two +1's.
Thanks for your input on Mana Tithe. If I end up testing it I'll let you guys know how it fares.
I'm building the deck now with a black splash, and I'm considering adding a manland to my mana base. Mutavault seems like the best in a vacuum, but with three colors and four Wastelands it's probably better to go for Treetop Village or Stirring Wildwood. Currently, I'm leaning towards the latter, thinking of it more as color fixing and flood mitigation than as a reliable threat. What do you guys think?
This is my current build, I'm entering a small tournament tonight with it, should around 20-30 players:
G/W/b Maverick
Creatures 25:
4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Instants and Sorceries 9:
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Swords to Plowshares
Artifacts 2:
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Enchantment 1:
1 Sylvan Library
Lands 23:
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
3 Wasteland
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Maze of Ith
Sideboard:
4 Thoughtseize
3 Zealous Persecution
2 Crop Rotation
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Ethersworn Canonist
In my experience these are my match ups:
Favored match ups:
Dredge, Storm, High Tide, Reanimator, Show and Tell, Canadian Thresh hold, Zoo, Goblins, The Rock, Stacks/MUD
50/50ish match ups:
Stoneblade,**UR Delver,*Elves, Shardless BUG, Punishing Jund
Bad match ups:
Belcher, Oops all Spells
Interesting you're running the full playset of Abrupt Decay maindeck. Is that a concession to the Equipment-based TNN matchups?
I've been playing 3-4 Abrupt Decay since I built the deck last year, it allows me to beat a countertop lock, Ćether Vial, Liliana OTV, LED, Jitte, Sword of This and That, Tempo strategies like Daze and FoW, and is also more synergetic with Deathrite Shaman than StPS is.
On a side note, Zealous Persecution is the MVP of my sideboard currently lol
I had considered the Shardless BUG match up favorable until they started packing Massacre and Golgari Charm in their sideboard, now it's more 50/50... I myself haven't played against Punishing Jund with the deck. And I haven't gone up against Stoneblade/Deathblade since I put Zealous Persecution in the sideboard, not sure if it'll push the match up in my favor, but it should.
Between gaddock teeg and scavenging ooze you should have plenty of game against shard less bug. They have to have all of the right answers at the right time or they lose…and shard less BUG loves to durdle around for way too many turns.
what does scavening ooze do to the shardless matchup?
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk