I Agree. I think overall anti combo hate should be able to do the trick. Hence, Thoughtseize, REB, +-CoF, Slaughter Games, Surgical/Extirpate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayotte
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I Agree. I think overall anti combo hate should be able to do the trick. Hence, Thoughtseize, REB, +-CoF, Slaughter Games, Surgical/Extirpate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayotte
I am guessing PK Fire is used to shorten clocks, because as I understand, the MUs against creatures is amazing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tao
It can be a win condition but it is mostly a control card. Like in normal Jund decks it is used as a value engine that consists of cards that are good on their own. Grove on its own is basically Taiga and Fire on its own still kills Delver, DR Shaman, Stoneforge Mystic, Elves and much more. The matchup against creatures is good but decks like BUG have a lot of card advantage so you need something to keep up. Even decks like Jund and Maverick have good ways to create card advantage. Therefore Blue Nic Fit has its own CA, Scapewish can kill them and Jund lists have Fire/Grove and additional value creatures like Huntmaster of the Fells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krimson Viper
Another big advantage is that it keeps Planeswalkers under control. Like I mentioned Jace gives the deck a good amount of problems but Fire/Grove can gun it down. Green Sun's Zenith for Primeval Titan for 2 Groves is a great late game plan.
Tao pretty much nailed it. Elves is not actually a good matchup for Nic Fit in general, despite Deeds. P-Fires go a long way towards making that matchup better. Also, they make the Stoneblade matchup go from very close to almost unlosable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tao
Also, for those interested, my Punishing Fires list in my signature is finally updated.
I'm going to SCG NJ for Legacy. I know nothing of the meta around there but I was debating bringing Rector since its the deck I know best. Anyone from the area?
I'll be going, playing Scapewish. It will be a VERY difficult Open because people who didn't make top 8 of the Invitational but who qualified will probably be playing. Also my first SCG event, I'm looking forward to it. Rector seems like a tough choice with Deathrite Shaman everywhere but if you feel comfortable with the deck then more power to you. Hope to see you there!Quote:
Originally Posted by CRich3
I do not think Rector is a good choice at this point. The deck doesn't perform well in the current meta.
@HoneyT:
- you should put Gitaxian Probe in your BUG list
- trying out Gitaxian Probe in Punishing Fire is probably a good idea
I tried out Probe in a Punishing Fire list that's close to HoneyT's and I didn't like it. It was tough to find space for it. I only ran it as a two-of and then anytime I would draw it past the opening hand, it wasn't great. Maybe a more skilled deck builder than I could fit in better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tao
I could see 4 Probe 4 SDT doing some effective work. With a set of probe you're more likely to see them in turns 1 - 2, and with more Top you can filter away dead probes late game.
No one said anything to this, and I figure it might be to me since I'm the only one I know playing 2 towers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridia
It's a "shows up" thing. If you have two towers, you see them twice as often. The turn 1 vet turn 2 tower pop play is extremely good for us. Enough so that I believe it warrants having both in the deck. This is also a slot I will inevitably throw other options into just to test with.
For what it's worth, my BUG list is rather out-dated. Haven't played that in quite some time. Either way, Probes are not making it into my P-Fire list. I don't need their help to make Therapies good. And I would rather just have good cards that do something as opposed to derpy cantrips. Between GSZ and Top, we have an easy enough time finding cards we need without using a card that's really only useful in our opening hand/in conjuction with Therapy. I rarely miss with Therapy and when I do, it's almost never relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tao
@guelahpapyrus:
If you wanted to try and fit 4 Probes in my list, the cuts would be 1 Grove, 1 Punishing Fire, 1 Maelstrom Pulse, and either the Ooze, 1 Witness, or DRS. The last slot would be based on personal preference, though as I said, I will not be using Probes.
On the other hand, I agree with Tao that Rector is not really where you want to be. However, this meta is starting to look rather ripe for a more Junk/Rock style build for you white players out there.
I figured, I will probably still play it since its what I know best. Probably tune it to rely less on rector though.
Unfortunately I won't be at Somerset -- was planning on it, but some other stuff came up that's more important. One of these days we'll be at the same damn event, lol.
On a related subject, who all here is planning on going to Legacy Champs / GP DC? I'm definitely planning on attending both -- it'd be nice to have a Nic Fit caucus =)
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RE@Rector
Rector -might- still work, but it's subpar because of Mr. Douchebaggy Retarded Sycophant. You basically need to try to somehow find more room maindeck for spot removal. The upside is that if you can successfully resolve the DRS issue, you're pretty much set beyond that, since most decks are leaning purely on DRS for graveyard hate.
As for the metagame there, I'd come prepared for OmniTell (aka Carpet, Nether Voids, Cranial/Memoricide, etc). Aside from that, expect the usual assortment of SCG-grinder fair decks, and then the usual mix of random shit. If you post up your list, I can try to help as best I can.
What is the first card you name with cranial extraction/memoricide against OmniTell?
At first I'd say Cunning Wish because then their only win condition left would be Emrakul which is played at most as a one-of; however is not uncommon that in game 2 they'll side in some win condition, against Bx deck, in fear of discard plus surgical extraction on cunning wish.
Wouldn't be better to name Enter the infinite then?
Arianrhod, pretty sure I'll be at GP DC, but I think I'll be playing combo and not Nic Fit.
No, Omniscience is the name. The ONLY way that they can win the game at that point is by Showing Emrakul. They can't "cast" Emrakul via Dream Halls, because he's colorless. They also can't "cast" Ants a million times. If they are the Lab Maniac version, it is still slightly possible that they can win by chaining together enough crap with Halls, but it's harder....and the Lab Maniac version is less common, anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtk3
Also of note when playing vs OmniTell: let the Show and Tell resolve if you have a REB: then REB their Omniscience or Dream Halls in response to Enter the Infinite. Skilled pilots might blow you out sometimes by casting a 2nd Omniscience first (or Hallsing an Omniscience), but that requires them to both be less idiotic than the average OmniTell pilot and to have a specific hand where they have multiples of those effects in-hand.
Sad times =(Quote:
Originally Posted by Star|Scream
I would guess naming Show and Tell is a good idea. Maybe Griselbrand next. I'd honestly rather see Emrakul hit the board than Grisel. That at least gives a turn to drum something up rather than PAYSEVENLIFEFORCE LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by kingtk3
Edit: I guess I was thinking more of Sneak and Show. Forgot entirely about Dream halls. . .
That guy ^ knows better than this guy <
=)Quote:
Originally Posted by hymntotourcock
Also, you're wrong vs Sneak, too, lol. The proper order is you Therapy naming Show and Tell; then your first Cranial effect hits Emrakul. Your goal is to push your opponent onto the Sneak Attack + Griselbrand plan, because that plan is frequently nonlethal and gives you a TON of time to react. It also makes your Thragtusks other such creatures actually relevant, because 4x Griselbrand is only 28 damage, and without Emrakul, they can't recycle them. Sneak Attack is the combo piece we care less about, because it isn't persistent. Emrakul is the one we care most about, because we still have a board state after Griselbrand swings. They can still Show and Tell a Griselbrand, which is a problem, but if we're doing our job correctly, it'll take time for them to assemble that...and every turn is another turn we could draw another Cranial / a Witness / a Wish / whatever and completely ruin their day.
Note that Show and Tell is also REB-able.
Here is my current version.
4x Veteran Explorer
1x Starved Rusalka
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
2x Eternal Witness
1x Fierce Empath
3x Academy Rector
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Thragtusk
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Baneslayer Angel
1x Sun Titan
1x Grave Titan
3x Pernicious Deed
1x Recycle
1x Faith's Fetters
1x Recurring Nightmare
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Bayou
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
1x Marsh Flats
3x Forest
3x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Phyrexian Tower
//SB
1x Humility
1x Moat
2x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Mindbreak Trap
3x Carpet of Flowers
3x Extirpate -> Duress
2x ? (Cant remember)
-I put moat in the SB because most of my meta is stone blade/death blade, show and tell and storm. So it does nothing for me a majority of the time.
-I took out baneslayer because countertop was huge in my area for a while.
-Switched out for Grave Titan because its easier to attack through Emrakul.
-I am keeping Faith Fetters, even though it is not as good with the new legend rule, it can't be decayed and they still have to draw another one.
-Thinking of cutting a rector for a Scavenging Ooze or maybe even a Voice of Resurgence. He sounds pretty good with the sac effects.
Okay. I don't have time for an in-depth examination at the moment, but I'll quickly note something that I've been considering for a while now....if you've moved away from Moat maindeck (which I think is correct), a very relevant thing to consider is that Blood Baron of Vizkopa is probably an upgrade from Baneslayer. While it loses 1 power, Flying, First Strike, and Protection from Griselbrand, Blood Baron gains protection from black and white, which seems amazingly relevant. They can't just Swords it and move on. They can't swing with Batterskull into it (nor can they block it). Can't be Pulsed. Etc. The 3WB cost is a bit friendlier than 3WW, too. I'm not sure that it's an actual upgrade -- BBV loses to Goyf, afterall, whereas Baneslayer could usually race it by herself.
Just some quick nibbles for thought.