Did you mean "it's only one, dude"? This thread alone has multiple dudes using Daze so I'll assume this is what you meant. Curious if you are indeed including a single Daze in your list.Quote:
Originally Posted by CabalTherapy
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Did you mean "it's only one, dude"? This thread alone has multiple dudes using Daze so I'll assume this is what you meant. Curious if you are indeed including a single Daze in your list.Quote:
Originally Posted by CabalTherapy
No, I know how to use a comma.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottW
I guess you missed the word "maindeck".
I assumed you did and it was a typo. I count at least 2 who play maindeck Daze and then Nevilshute just posted his league recording, but this was after your post. I was more curious if you personally were including any Daze in your 75 or if I misread one of your previous posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by CabalTherapy
Ah ok, no problem. I missed the second one and yes, Nevilshute, well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottW
Yes, I have been playing 3 of them in the SB for some time now and I had great results against DnT. I couldn't really manage to gain advantage with them against Eldrazi and Thalia Stompy though. (I think I wrote something a couple of pages ago but not sure.)
On the other hand, I don't think it's a good maindeck option.
I dunno; maybe Daze is good because of the curveball effect. I certainly wouldn't have expected to see it a year ago, and given how static the lists tend to be (there's mainboard variance of, maybe, five cards between most AnT lists over the past year or two), there's a good chance that potential opponents haven't really caught on.
I just feel like there are a lot of problems with Daze; it's no good if the opponent can afford to throw down an extra buck (Eldrazi lists with Spirit Guides [these may be obsolete], almost any deck after turn 2-3, Ritual-heavy builds like the mirror match or Belcher), it doesn't stop stuff that comes down on our turn zero (granted, nothing else does but Extraction), and it feels like an awkward thing to have in hand if we're trying to combo. The fact that we can't afford to get stuck with a land in hand [EDIT: along with Infernal, obviously] if we don't have LED means that it actually slows us down after a certain point, because we either need to hardcast Daze (perhaps against our own stuff) or find another way to get rid of the land if we're freecasting. I find that LEDs are pretty stressed already, just because we can only run four, and I'm not sure it'd be optimal to put further stress on them.
It does seem like a way to get around shenanigans like Mother of Runes, but I feel like in hatebear matchups, we're going to have problems with Aether Vial and Cavern of Souls if we're relying on countermagic.
Nevilshute, looking forward to the vid(s?) you posted! Maybe I'll find some of my concerns allayed therein.
I'm not convinced and am back on no Dazes... I feel like as long as it is somewhat unexpected people will continue to have a lot of feel-good blow-outs against unsuspecting opponents, but I feel it adds inconsistency by the very high-ceiling / low-floor nature of the card itself. Meh I don't know. I don't think it fundamentally changes any matchups - even if looking at it at its most effective. I mean so we get to daze a chalice on the... play? Okay great. We are still heavily unfavored against Eldrazi. Okay so we get to daze a Thalia on the draw or play... great except we are already favorites against D&T.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce
Like I said, if you end up Dazing something, it would have to be something that would put you in a worse situation than having a land in hand that you can't play. Something like a Thalia, a Chalice or something that would kill you outright. The probability for Eldrazi to SSG through a Daze is really small. They have to have Tomb, SSG, and the card that you want to Daze. I also think we are heavily favored against any deck on Turns 2-3, so just getting to that position by having Daze is already an advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce
I'm honestly not convinced either. It hasn't been really good, but it also hasn't been bad. I'm just playing it to find situations where it will actually be bad or worse than the cards that I cut for it, and so far I haven't found many. I haven't even blown out anyone with it yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by nevilshute
I went 1-2 in my weekly last night on the 3 Daze list, though. My draws were hilariously bad.
I mulled to 5 both games in R1 against this budget delver deck. One of the mulled hands had cantrips, Daze and no lands, but even if the Daze had been a land it would have been Bayou. Still would have tossed that. G2 I think I could have played it better. Had rituals and Tendrils in hand.
R2 was a bye. (We only had 7 players.)
R3 I won against zoo pretty easily. Mulled to 5 again, and 6 in one game.
R4
G1 I played Ad Nauseam T1 against Mono R Sneak, fizzled, and died to his T2 sneak.
G2 I T3 PIF him through blood moon
G3 I Ad Nauseamed T2 and died to it. Ugh!
Mulliganed in every game I played. Wow. Only shipped back one hand with Daze, though, so I don't think it's that.
I took my ANT list to the local last night for legacy. I'm not an experienced ANT player, but I've been playing legacy for years.
My build is budget compared to the usual, but I run Shock lands instead of true duals, and I'm down on a few fetches, but otherwise my list is fairly typical.
I went 3-2, being beaten by Bw Pox, Grixis Tempo. Both times discard killed my hand before I could do anything meaningful.
How do you guys play out against heavy discard? Is it a case of just going for it?
It really depends on what exactly "just going for it" means. In general Past in Flames is your best friend against heavy discard.Quote:
Originally Posted by slave
Quote:
Originally Posted by slave
And sensei's divining top is your second best friend :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7
@Nevilshute and the Daze team:
I saw your videos (not all, just 3 of them) and daze was almost enver relevant. I never saw the Gotcha Daze and that was sad. I will keep looking on the card, but from what I see and reas here I have never seen that the card shines a lot. Its like ok, but no one writes repeately that he won many ganes just because of daze. Thats sad and makes me not think is a really good plan.
@ togores
Well i do but you have to test the card by yourself;)
I dont have foil Dazes to test them D:
Also just what I see, I will find time to test them, but runing 14 lands...
I win a lot of games because of Daze.Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
I win a lot of games because of Daze.
I win a lot of games because of Daze.
There you have it.
:P
I will try a daze list in a tournament this Sunday, I think we'll have around more or less 60 players so it's a good moment to test the deck.
Also if I'm not good :laugh:
I will keep you updated, trying to write down a good report.
@togores
I'm glad that i have 3 (4)foil daze to test :P
Well today i played a trial at the eternal weekend.
Round 1: Fast reanimator 0:2
2 times mull to 5 and he had two times first turn reanimate first turn into win..
Round 2: Burg delver 2:0
2 times pif loop gets it.
Round 3: Grixis Delver 2:0
One time pif loop and one time empty gets it.
Round 4: Eldrazi 2:1 never had daze and i side them out after game 1 anyway..
G1 i played probe and saw the chalice so i played my 2 leds and a island.. he played chalice on 1 then next turn tutor into ad nauseam into win
G2 was really close i played a therapy blind on him cause he played tomb and said go, so i was naming tough knot seer and then he discarded 2.. played some small creautes and i had 2 decays anyway but after i played 3 decays i played a ponder and had to shuffle.Sadly i draw 3 lands in a row..
G3 Lucky me i had first turn ad nauseam into discard then next turn win :)
Now sad part of the story..
0:2 UB Reanimator
G1: island go he fetch and petal and said go..
I played a drawet duress then i saw he could go off first turn griselbrand with fow in hand but without pitch..
He didn't so i discard him his reanimate..he played entomb on grisel and then he topdecked reanimate...yeaah!
G2: keept a hand where i had to play ponder first..
The hand was cool cause of the possible pif protection with tendrils kill..so i draw a bs. He goeff first turn into iona and no echoing truth for me after cantriping..
:(
Round 6: 1:2 Grixis delver
Hard games maybe i could win the last with empty but i not remember exactly if i had it in a ponder cause i take the pif for a duress protection pif kill but had to fetch empty away..then i saw his hand like pyroblast, daze, fow,surgical and a active shaman.. so i tried a little bit to drew his counter but had to say go..sadly he drew that second cabal therapy:(
Anyway the reanimator games with 4 time first turn reanimate don't feel like games but can happen...also i don't played surgical in sb and it's anyway not needed against the UB List;)
Daze was never relevant this time..also not good or bad..
Lucky i have 1 bye for tomorrow of a other trial in switzerland:)
Greets Pascal
Just wasted some money on a grim tutor (realized I overpaid by $10-20). Anyone still running one of these? I think I like it over DP for a few reasons. Also have been toying with some bad ideas such as final fortune (to get to that critical turn 3 before too much hate comes down), and nevinyrral's disk, but nothing really breaking the format yet.
PS- if anyone has any nice grim tutor alters I am looking for some inspiration on that front too.
6-0ed the Eternal weekend trial 1
2-1 burg
2-0 GR Lands
2-0 Foodchain
2-0 TA
2-1 mirror
2-1 cotv slivers
so the streak lives on, hopefully my luck could last one more day...
//GT- I play it, CT usually does too; BB is enough imo
Nice results slosh!
Maybe we see us tomorrow:)
I don't saw you:(