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I tested it a Little bit but i don't like it. Because you have less Cantrips and maybe you draw a lot ADN, but the chrome moxes are so bad when you have it on Hand..Only good in the Ad nauseam and the lifeloss are too much.
The second Thing is the Thoughtseize with 3 Ad nauseam? lol? How can that work well?
Don't like it^^
I've played with 2 Ad Nauseam in the past but it was a version with chant/Silence en with a lower mana curve (played only 3 Cabal rituals etc.). I've tested 3 Ad Nauseam and even though you get a higher percentage of T1 or 2 kills you can easily kill yourself even at 18 or 19 life.
Additionally Chrome mox sucks :laugh:
Yeah that list kinda blew my mind. I guess he must have used Ad Naus as more of a draw 5-7 than as an actual kill condition. It seems very odd...
Fatal - it seems hard to believe that he's able to kill faster because you still can't easily get thresh before turn 3 and it seems unlikely that he's often going to be able to win the turn he casts Ad Nauseam. Could be wrong though, haven't tested it.
Noob questions here, hope I don't bother anyone:
1) How good, if at all, is Rain of Filth in ANT? It seems to be able to accomplish threshold with Cabal Ritual really easily. I know it's worse than LED, but would 1-2 copies of Rain of Filth be ok to substitute in the typical slots dedicated to something like Gitaxian Probe? (reasoning: I don't have LED's but I want to play storm, lol)
2) Is Angel's Grace too janky to try? Combining Grace + Ad Nauseam is a win on the spot from my noob playtesting. Draw the whole deck, lay out Lotus Petals, Silence, Rituals, and Tendrils for 30.
Hope I'm not bothering anyone, just some noob questions, hope I can get some feedback.
Rain of filth is a very poor substitute for LED. You'll severely hurt your ad nauseams and past in flames avenues of victory in one go. LED protects you from not having enough mana after a slew of discard rips your hand and will get you hellbent post ad nauseum and produces the critical red necessary for a lot of past in flames kills. Rain of filth does none of these. The tricks with LED, Brainstorm and Probe are too good to cut IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
Angel's grace requires a commitment to white that I am unwilling to give a serious try at this point. If I were to do so, it would not be for angel's grace, a card that works with the least used avenue of victory for me. You'll make it harder on yourself to get hellbent without LED while weakening your mana base without actually improving matchups. Games where you can grace into tutor for Ad nauseum you can just as easily set up tutor chaining or past in flames. If you want a better Ad Nauseum deck, I suggest TES.
However neither are remotely as powerful without LED, which is completely necessary for this archetype.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal
Nice list there! Just wondering how is the empty the warrens treating you so far? What kinda decks do you side it in and do you remove ad nauseum for that? Thanks!
Fair enough, and thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammit67
Almost all blue/or with discard when you need more wincons or face wall of counters.Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1987
What should I board in against heavy discard decks(eg team america/jund)? I saw three different options
1) Dark confidant
2) Sensei's Divining top
3) Ignorant bliss
I have been playtesting the deck for a while but my meta consists of mostly blue decks and combo so I haven't been able to playtest against discard decks yet. Need some opinion on that, thanks:laugh:
None of them are fantastic, otherwise everyone would run the same thing. Just play out all artifact mana and rip into tutors or past in flames. Clever brainstorming/cantripping can ease the reliance on those sideboard cardsQuote:
Originally Posted by mike1987
@Tammit
Agree, but for me is the best thing Ignorant Bliss because, it's protectet your Tutor in Hand completly. BoB and Top not. Bliss have saved me some games against Jund.
I have had good luck with sylvan library vs discard as well as counter decks. Besides offering card advantage on its own it works well with cantrips and fetches. Has anyone else used sylvan to success?
Why i should use a Card that takes me life other than Ad nauseam? And it's not really good against discard.^^Then the top seems a lot better.
What are you doing when he discard the key Card in your Hand? Find a new one? I think then you are probably death.
Ignorant Bliss is one of the best Options. Because Bliss protect the Key Card.
The other is BoB. He don't protect the Key Card but makes a lot more Card advange. Maybe he take a Bolt or Counter against Jund or BUG.
3x SDT main is working very well for me... lets you setup the cabal-IT sequence while hellbent lategame
a card to consider splashing G - Ground seal
how comes Prosak despite playing miserably with subpar ANT version reaches top 8/good results regularly?, each time I watch his match coverage he manages to play poor not just strategically but also technically, how is that possible, I won't go 2-2 in weekly local with that... Baugh is 5 minutes online and I couldn't think but the same of him, numerous fails just to pretend to play good and wins because of opps severe mana screw...
Brief reporting.
Last saturday I top 2 in a local tournament (LCL, 108 Players) with the following list, basically the same list I played the last time I took it 5 months ago with some sideboard tweaks adapting it for the metagame:
Main 60
Lands 15
4x Polluted Delta
3x Misty Rainforest
1x Verdant Catacombs
2x Underground Sea
1x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
1x Volcanic Island
1x Swamp
1x Island
Artifacts 8
4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
Sorceries 24
4x Duress
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Ponder
4x Infernal Tutor
2x Grim Tutor
1x Past in Flames
1x Tendrils of Agony
Instants 13
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Brainstorm
1x Ad Nauseam
Sideboard 15
1x Empty the Warrens
2x Karakas
3x Xantid Swarm
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Dread of Night
3x Chain of Vapor
For my taste this maindeck is still the most solid version, providing super consistent hands and packing enough threat density.
The deck looks like still in good shape.
The rounds where:
R1 - Mirror (ANT), vs. a good player and better friend, the last game was crucial when we both where in top deck he drew the IT the same turn I had mine in the top of the deck. 1-2
R2 - Hypergenesis.2-0
R3 - Infinite Halls (Omniscience + Maniac deck). 2-1
R4 - Jund. 2-0
R5 - U/W delver tempo. 2-1
R6 - U/W Miracles Cb-Top. 2-0
R7 - T.N.T. Another good player and friend, we decided to draw to avoid stupid "mirror-like" outcomes. ID
T8 - Jund. 2-1
T4 - Sneak Show. 2-1
FINAL - T.N.T. The guy who ID in R7. He went first due to swiss standings and 1st turn kill me. In second Match I started Gitaxian revealing: 2x Dark ritual, 1x Infernal Tutor, 1x Duress, 1x Inquisition of Kozilek, 2x Land. I proceeded to Therapy the rituals away. He drew + land + go. I Probed him again watching the 3rd ritual he just top decked, I cantripped and prepared for next turn kill and ship the turn telling him he had LED on top (as a kind of joke), then he drew and guess what? The LED was there so he Ad Nauseamed me out of the game taking the tournament.
Greetings,
Iņaki.-
Happy to know the results :)
2 things:
--> 2x Grim Tutor? With Ad Nauseam...How did that worked for you?
--> Xantid Swarms. Also, how did they worked the tournament?
Any changes you would make to the deck?
One more time, congratulations ;)
Thank you!
Regarding Grim Tutor, as has been said before be me and some others. WHile it is not the best card one may want in the deck, is by far the best card in the available Legacy pool covering that 2 slots. It grants enough threat density, and the alternatives for this are Burnong Wish (played in TNT, the problem of being exiled is too big to count it as the same threat as Infernal tutor), Intuition (it is quite good, though it opens you to grave hate and it can't be played off rituals) and Lim-Dûl's Vault (it is both slow and card disadvantge, it works as a very crappy Vampiric Tutor). Grim Tutor is a necessary evil in ANT, IMO, putting all egs in one basket (with IT) is bad for two reasons, only 4 tutors and many cantrips can make you lose to fast decks just because you can't find the enabler but also makes you die to a single surgical extraction after a well-aimed discard.
Xantids are just gold, in the tournament granted me 2-3 wins. One against Infinite Halls: I played Swarm and he FoW'ed it with FoW, I proceeded to kill afterwards. Against Miracles I won against a hand of: Counterspell, REB, FLusterstorm, Snapcaster Mage. Those two are on top fo mind, but I remember siding it isn some other matches but can't remember the specific plays around them.
For possible cahnges... well I jsut feel the main deck is great as it is. I will only make some changes to the sideboard every time I will go to a tournament to adapt the deck for the metagame.
Greetings,
Iņaki.-
Against your finals opponent, did he even play a discard spell on turn 1 game 2? Was just wondering, because if he didn't it doesn't really make much sense at all seeing as how you could be holding the turn 2 kill and he simply didn't duress/IoK away your business spell. Not that it mattered in hindsight. Guy ripped incredibly well that third game to draw dark rit #3 and LED right off the top with no cantrips. Overall your list seems really good Inaki, I might have to run it in a tournament to see how it fares against 16 cantrips and 6 protection spells versus 8 protection spells and 12 cantrips.
I wouldn't ever run sylvan library over dark confidant in storm combo. Sylvan library is basically revealing tendrils of agony/PiF for every extra card drawn whereas confidant is usually 0, 1, or 2 damage for an extra card. There are corner cases where sylvan is better but those are few and far between (drawing multiple rituals and IT off of one trigger to win the same turn assuming you're hellbent due to their discard.) You can't dark rit into sylvan library on turn 1 either, as turn 1 bob is godlike when it sticks and typically wins me the game on the spot after I start drawing 2 cards a turn. They can have all the discard they want, but confidant typically grinds them out quite easily.
Bob has also great synergy with Cabal Therapy specially in kill turn to generate more storm and clean the way.
Love this quite a bit too, as it comes in handy in the mirror match sometimes or against counterspell decks. I just love flashbacking therapy in general though assuming the opponent lacks brainstorm/I know their hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal