[Deck] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

[QUOTE=mahelfri94;786735]

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Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning

Ended up 5-4 at the Seattle Open. Abysmal, barely made top 64. Two of our comrades took 1st and 6th, however.

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1167227

Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but has anyone put together a sideboard guide for this list or another that is similar with maindeck build?

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Rug's sideboard plan is more or less straightforward.
Rules of thumb:

with the exception of combo decks and more or less back breaking T1 plays like chalice at 1 (tezzerator) side force out on the play

take daze out on the draw against most decks if there's something better in the side (except against other low mana decks like patriot aggro and rug then take force out and in those match ups its all about the 1 for 1 trades you don't want force)

against anything with hymn to tourach or lots of discard side out 4 forces

combo package is usually taking out burn maybe shaving 1 of the 4 goyfs depending on the deck and putting in pyroblast, flusterstorm and vendilion clique (note against storm you probably want to keep burn in and not bother siding in pyroblast)

against decks with creatures as win cons (maverick, merfolk, D&T, elves, etc) bring in rough.

decks with opposing goyfs, kotr or other similar big creatures bring in submerge (also bring this in against elves)

Bring life from the loam in against other decks with greedy mana bases (rug delver, patriot aggro, deathblade, D&T defensively here, jund, etc)

zuran orb is specifically for the burn match up, but that's more of a Jacob Wilson marque card that I don't think any other lists run

Sulfur elemental is for the D&T match up and maverick to deal with resolved mom

ancient grudge and other artifact hate comes in against stoneblade packages and artifact decks like tezzerator where t1 chalice of the void is something to seriously be feared

JTMS is a card I've never really used, but you mainly want it for the control match ups like miracles and stoneblade if I'm not mistaken, but I could be wrong.

That's pretty much it. Remember you're a tempo deck this means playing like a tempo deck: two for one with rough, submerge to take a draws when they're really behind if not save for when they shuffle, leave mana up against combo and deploy a threat never do turn 1 threat unless you have something like force and daze back up, etc.

Yep, what Contract Killer said.
There is/was an ongoing discussion on the turn 1 threat doctrine. Im quite happy playing one on most occasions, but it isn't set in stone. Esp. Mongoose is quite weak.

[QUOTE=Contract Killer;786785]

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Originally Posted by mahelfri94

combo package is usually taking out burn maybe shaving 1 of the 4 goyfs depending on the deck and putting in pyroblast, flusterstorm and vendilion clique (note against storm you probably want to keep burn in and not bother siding in pyroblast) unless you have something like force and daze back up, etc.

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I like pyroblast against storm. Countering brainstorm or ponder is actually rather useful

[QUOTE=trollking21;787080]

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Originally Posted by Contract Killer

I like pyroblast against storm. Countering brainstorm or ponder is actually rather useful

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I like it too, esp. against the decks with PReordains, where there is always some target.

Yep,countering cantrips is very powerful against storm because you force your opponent to draw perfectly from the top which is almost impossible.
Against TES pyroblast is a hardcounter for diminishing return from time to time.
Usually they should not play it against us but sometimes they don't have any other option.


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

Yep,countering cantrips is very powerful against storm because you force your opponent to draw perfectly from the top which is almost impossible.
Against TES pyroblast is a hardcounter for diminishing return from time to time.
Usually they should not play it against us but sometimes they don't have any other option.


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

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[QUOTE=Bed Decks Palyer;787090]

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Originally Posted by trollking21

I like it too, esp. against the decks with PReordains, where there is always some target.

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[QUOTE=trollking21;787080]

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Originally Posted by Contract Killer

I like pyroblast against storm. Countering brainstorm or ponder is actually rather useful

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I do think countering cantrips is good against storm, but bolts might be better. The ability to close out the game with a bolt and to lower their ad nauseam count is really powerful. Both have their merits not sure which is better though.

The safe path is to land a thread and to gather a hand with infinite countermagic to stop your opponent from going off.(works also the other way round)
Against storm lightning bolt should be in the main 60 postboard (swarms) but can be reduced to 3 to make room for powerful counterspells)



- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

It all depends on your md and sb configuration. If you play burn-heavy list and have nothing else to take from sb, then it's quite solid choice. Moreover, Storm matchup is one of the few where we're not exactly beatdown (it's important to be aggressive once we assert control, but that's a different story), so every card that helps us not lose is important.

My recent md:
50 Can Thresh
4 Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
2 Fire/Ice
1 Sylvan Library

My recent sb:
Qty Name
2 Rough/Tumble
2 Submerge
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Artifact Mutation
2 Pyroblast
1 Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sulfur Elemental

Against Strom I'd sb like this:
-1 Bolt, -2 Fire/Ice, + 2 Pyroblast (to hit cantrips), +1 Flusterstorm (obv)
then
-4 Mongoose (slow threat,and dies to...), +2 Rough (EtW plan), +2 Cage (PiF)

I'm not a genius, so maybe this is wrong. Esp. Mongoose/Goyf decision is the one over which ppl are sometimes arguing, but for me it's easy to decide, as Mongoose is too slow and it dies to Rough, if I need to play it.

Btw, Rough/Tumble is arguably the worst card, because ETW, once resolved, has the ability to strip us of hand (due to CT flashbacks). Still, I prefer to have an answer to goblins and it's quite possible that after you fought (and lost) The Battle of EtW on stack, you may win it on the battelfield, simply by naturally drawing the spell, blindly Pondering into it, or becasue you've hid it on the top with BS, once the battle started: note that you don't need it when fighting the storm, so it's not like "gonny hide it if I'll need it", but much more "away with this nonsense, I need to BS into FoW". Moreover, if they etW on turn1 or turn2, there might be not enough CTs to completely tear our hand, and with the amount of shuffles and cantrips, Rough may show soon enough to matter.

Let's be honest here while sideboarding is always a good choice the storm match up is the only match up in extremely in our favor. That's the thing about RUG you don't really have any favorable match ups, but lots of 50/50 match ups. Storm is our one absurdly good match up. For starters we have 8 Forces against them. What I mean by that is we have our 4 forces and then we have our 4 stifles which makes their deck fizzle. In addition we also have some number of spell pierces or snares which can both mess up their tutors. After that we also have daze which is arguably good because if we have wasteland they usually only have 1 other land available.
I remember once against storm I kept a hand that was just too much for them to fight through. It was something like Force, Stifle, Flusterstorm, spell pierce, fetch Ponder brainstorm. He did turn one probe on me game 2 after losing game 1 saw my hand and his face was priceless :tongue:.

Regarding storm, ANT is harder to beat versus TES. ANT can easily recover from fizzling out. However, if you're expecting to face a lot of ANT, I suggest boarding in at least 2 surgical extractions. Against TES, dazes and knowing how to count mana is essential in winning.

YEs, Storm is our good matchup, but we don't have that easy times as other U.dec have. We lack discard (both for the actual discard and the info provided) or Counterbalance, pre-board there's little to be done about EtW plan, and ANT has quite resilient manabase. PiF gets around any number of countermagic and Xantid Swarm is pretty annoying. If anyone's meta is full of Storm, I would recommend a sb overhaul, as the aditional Pierces, REBs, Flustertorms and Extractions might be needed. Hey, if your meta is truly infested with Storm, maybe CB/Top might find a way into your sb.

About the the storm match up
Deck 54 can thresh
2 forked bolt
2 spell pierce
2 spell snare

Board
Artifact (2)
2xGrafdigger's Cage

Creature (1)
1xSulfur Elemental

Instant (10)
2xAncient Grudge
2xDivert
1xFlusterstorm
3xSubmerge
2xRed Elemental Blast
Sorcery (2)
2xRough // Tumble


So for board against storm
-3 forked bolt
-1 goose
-1 goyf
+2 REB
+2 rough
+1 flusterstorm

I shave 1 of each green creature because I never want to see 2 goyf's really and goose is still slow REB stops cantrips rough stops empty and flusterstorm stops storm.

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Originally Posted by cheerios

Against TES, dazes and knowing how to count mana is essential in winning.

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But what if I don't know how to count higher than three?

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

But what if I don't know how to count higher than three?

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you should hopefully have at least 7 fingers. That's the highest you really need as infernal+ad nas is 7.

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Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

It all depends on your md and sb configuration. If you play burn-heavy list and have nothing else to take from sb, then it's quite solid choice. Moreover, Storm matchup is one of the few where we're not exactly beatdown (it's important to be aggressive once we assert control, but that's a different story), so every card that helps us not lose is important.

My recent md:
50 Can Thresh
4 Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
2 Fire/Ice
1 Sylvan Library

My recent sb:
Qty Name
2 Rough/Tumble
2 Submerge
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Artifact Mutation
2 Pyroblast
1 Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sulfur Elemental

Against Strom I'd sb like this:
-1 Bolt, -2 Fire/Ice, + 2 Pyroblast (to hit cantrips), +1 Flusterstorm (obv)
then
-4 Mongoose (slow threat,and dies to...), +2 Rough (EtW plan), +2 Cage (PiF)

I'm not a genius, so maybe this is wrong. Esp. Mongoose/Goyf decision is the one over which ppl are sometimes arguing, but for me it's easy to decide, as Mongoose is too slow and it dies to Rough, if I need to play it.

Btw, Rough/Tumble is arguably the worst card, because ETW, once resolved, has the ability to strip us of hand (due to CT flashbacks). Still, I prefer to have an answer to goblins and it's quite possible that after you fought (and lost) The Battle of EtW on stack, you may win it on the battelfield, simply by naturally drawing the spell, blindly Pondering into it, or becasue you've hid it on the top with BS, once the battle started: note that you don't need it when fighting the storm, so it's not like "gonny hide it if I'll need it", but much more "away with this nonsense, I need to BS into FoW". Moreover, if they etW on turn1 or turn2, there might be not enough CTs to completely tear our hand, and with the amount of shuffles and cantrips, Rough may show soon enough to matter.

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I wouldn't say rough is the worst answer since the cabal therapy I don't think is that much of an issue. Usually if they go the ETW route against us it's turn 1 all or nothing and they don't have much in the way of disruption. On another note how is the sylvan library owing for you?

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Originally Posted by Contract Killer

I wouldn't say rough is the worst answer since the cabal therapy I don't think is that much of an issue. Usually if they go the ETW route against us it's turn 1 all or nothing and they don't have much in the way of disruption. On another note how is the sylvan library owing for you?

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One CT is enoguh, because if it's paired with another disruption (even something as "weak" as GP), they may discard two of our cards. Also, ANT goes for EtW a bit later, esp. against Thresh that has little to do about it, once the storm trigger successfully resolves.
I just started the tsting, so I have very little to say about library. But it was fine against Infect, where your life toatly doesn't really matter. :cool:

With all this talk about side-boarding, how do you guys go against Miracles? (The versions that run 3 RIP in the main for Helm kill.)

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Originally Posted by Krankk

With all this talk about side-boarding, how do you guys go against Miracles? (The versions that run 3 RIP in the main for Helm kill.)

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My main sideboard plan against them is:
OtP +2 pyroblast, +2 flusterstorm, +vendilion clique / -4 lightning bolt, -dismember
OtD +2 pyroblast, +2 flusterstorm, +vendilion clique / - 4 daze, -dismember

How do people feel about flusterstorm in the miracles match up? At the worst it's a bad spell pierce at best it wins counter wars hands down usually. Then again they can get up to a lot of mana sometimes so it doesn't even win counter wars all the time. So far it's been ok not amazing, but usually able to hit an entreat or something.

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Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

One CT is enoguh, because if it's paired with another disruption (even something as "weak" as GP), they may discard two of our cards. Also, ANT goes for EtW a bit later, esp. against Thresh that has little to do about it, once the storm trigger successfully resolves.
I just started the tsting, so I have very little to say about library. But it was fine against Infect, where your life toatly doesn't really matter. :cool:

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Yeah I could see it being really good against them main hahaha.

Vs ant/TES I always like to swap some of my threats with sulfur elementals just because they have flash, and they always work greatly! Btw I really don't understand why you guys are still talking about the storm matchup (which is one of the best for us) while nowadays the meta is full of a much bigger, unblockable, untargetable and damage-immune problem...

yeah, i never thought nemesis could be that much of an issue for our deck to handle but here I am, talking about my bad experience of the last couple of months... God, since that card has been added to some top-tier lists like BUG/deathblade/UWR I feel like our deck is not as effective anymore. As you should know, RUG's main feature is nimble mongoose. That's what the deck is all about... and believe me, I loved that card and it was sooo good a couple of years ago! then, slowly, its immense power has ben crippled with the printing of some new sh*t. Yeah, I'm talking about you deathrite shaman and rest in peace. But still, the loose goose was able to fight against them and survive this first attack.

AND NOW THIS DEMIGOD FISH... they should have named it "mongoose nemesis", because that's what it does. I lost so many games due to a timely nemesis off the top and I'm sick of this. something had to change, and I decided that mongoose was that thing. They say... if you can't beat them... join them!
I'm proud to present you my new rug list, which led me to an outstanding 4-0-1 at the last local event (32 players)!!!

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 True-Name Nemesis

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Tarfire

4 Wooded Foothills
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island

SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Destructive Revelry
SB: 1 True-Name Nemesis
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Submerge

I know, it's hard to leave the mongooses, but I did and I'm happy with that! I don't know if I pulled this result only thanks to the "surprise effect" of rug playing the monster or because TNN actually made the difference. What I can say right now is that every time I drew a nemesis, it was game-breaking and a mongoose would have been up to the task maybe 50% of those times. Let's analyze this rationally, TNN's pros and cons vs mongoose:

Cons:
-mana cost allows you to play no more than 2
-can be red blasted
-can be dazed more easily
-dies to -1/-1 global effects

Pros:
-always 3 power no matter what
-unblockable!!
-not graveyard-reliant (this is huge)
-infinite wall for fatties
-pitchable to force of will

My personal experience says that the pros are worth it a thousand times right now.
Well, now... I don't think that mongoose days are over, I'm just saying that it's really hard right now to make it count. When I still had mongooses, every single turn I was thinking in my head "if he plays nemesis right now I'm screwed"... I couldn't go on with that anxiety so, guys... I joined the dark side :D