[Deck] The Rock

She can't protect from colorless sources, so you can use lands (Maze of Ith) to combat evasion or equipment (Jitte) to deal with her. It's harder to swing through the ground of course, so Lingering Souls helps there.

Also, Liliana.

Otherwise, you need to play around her ability and fight her on the stack with multiple removal spells.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Claymore

She can't protect from colorless sources, so you can use lands (Maze of Ith) to combat evasion or equipment (Jitte) to deal with her. It's harder to swing through the ground of course, so Lingering Souls helps there.

Also, Liliana.

Otherwise, you need to play around her ability and fight her on the stack with multiple removal spells.

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If you can get a Jitte on a souls token you pretty much win the game, but otherwise, Jitte is completely useless against a mom. She Pro-Color's and no counters get added to it, can't even try and suicide your guys into them =/.

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Originally Posted by Kich867

This is actually really important. Too many people pick a deck that they think is just better than another deck, but the reality of it is that you know when a deck you're playing just sort of feels right. You will play better with a deck you actually enjoy playing, than a deck that is supposed to be better than it.

This is another reason I'm putting Junk down lately. While I totally love the deck, and I also own Reanimator, I'm astronomically better at / more comfortable with Aggro Loam. The Rock is definitely my style of deck, but I never felt as comfortable as I do when playing Aggro Loam. So now I just need to figure out a way to beat combo.

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This so much ;___;
I loves Elves to bits, but playing vs. other combo decks is soul crushing. It's like, hey, I'm as fast as you, playing random discard spells doesn't interfere with my gameplan anywhere near as much as yours so G2/3 is still bad, and you likely have no interaction at all in G1, so I disrupt you and combo you out because you didn't slow me down. Just nothing apart from blind luck for you to do. Show and Tell's win con being 3cc makes it even worse, can't try to screw them over with a maindeck Teeg either >_<

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Claymore

But, what if you start with no cards in hand?

1 - Natural draw (1 card)

2 - Discard the natural draw, draw a card (1 card in hand)

3 - Discard the Sylvan draw, draw a card (1 card in hand)

4 - Pay 8 life to keep one card, or pay 4 and put it back?

Or what happens if one of those Sylvan cards gets discarded so you end up with surplus cards but only 1 Sylvan drawn card? Hopefully I don't derail too much lol

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If you start with no cards in hand, it's as you described above. I believe it becomes 8 life to keep the 1 card since you did actually draw extra cards off of SL.

Essentially, if you have 0 cards in hand, don't use the SL trigger :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

In Game 1, what do you guys versus an active Mother of Runes? She's incredibly difficult to deal with once she's active and makes Maverick's creatures > your creatures for the most part. I feel pretty good about Maverick until they get a Mother of Runes online, then I just don't know what to do. Game 2, I have more answers from the board, but I certainly don't like losing Game 1 to a grindy deck like Maverick. Other than getting lucky with StP on a sick Mother of Runes, is there any "tricks" you guys are aware of that can efficiently deal with her?

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Yeah as others have said, Jitte is best, Liliana if you can manage it (typically tougher since they'll normally have other dudes out to pad Mom). Otherwise, eat your 2 for 1 and hope you had Bob out to offset the card disadvantage.

Although labeled as a Rock deck, this is actually closer to Deadguy Ale: 6th out of 64 in a European tourney http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=10397&iddeck=75827.

That list is just about 4 Goyfs away from what I've been running the last month. I find it interesting that there were 3 different combo decks in the top 8, so I assume the overall meta must've been combo heavy. Glad to see this Deadguy Ale/Rock hybrid get there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

In Game 1, what do you guys versus an active Mother of Runes? She's incredibly difficult to deal with once she's active and makes Maverick's creatures > your creatures for the most part. I feel pretty good about Maverick until they get a Mother of Runes online, then I just don't know what to do. Game 2, I have more answers from the board, but I certainly don't like losing Game 1 to a grindy deck like Maverick. Other than getting lucky with StP on a sick Mother of Runes, is there any "tricks" you guys are aware of that can efficiently deal with her?

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Lilly and jitte on a spirit definitely help; against mav an early lilly is essential to victory

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Originally Posted by damionblackgear

Why SoLS > SoFI/SoBM/SoFF? While I don't like SoFF I can justify it more than SoLS in this meta. I'm a huge advocate of SoBM as it allows you to gain an alternate win-con and a blocker for the return attack. SoFI is currently what I'm using though.

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Primarily for protection from StP and Abrupt Decay.

Note that without Lingering Souls' evasion, I can't depend on connecting with the opponent to make full use out of Swords' abilities, so the fantastic abilities of other Swords are less relevant. Also without LSouls, the SoLS helps provide extra beaters in the late game.

I'm aware that most readers will immediate respond "Just play LSouls!" My current build is focused on clocking the opponent asap while retaining cosistency, disruption, and options. There are no slots in the deck where LSouls is better at helping me reach those goals than the cards I already have there.

Addressing the other Swords:
- SoFI has always sucked for me. Can't explain it any more than that.
- SoFF is definitely worth a try. I originally dismissed it due to past experience (old combo was pretty exclusively Storm. BSkull was the equipment to get against them, even over SoFaF. Now combo is greatly evolved and a discard equipment looks sweet)
- SoBM is hilariously good if you're playing Surgical Extraction! Worth considering if I end up using Surgical in my SB.

Against an active Mother of Runes, you need to swing in with something and have them block. Then, when they attempt to grant protection, you muck them with a removal spell. The match is easier with Garruk Relentless, since you can poop Deathtouch Wolves and make them use the protection (it gets better when Tracker shows up). Postboard, Deed and Golgari Charm just fucking level Maverick into the ground. Their only threat that survives either of those is Mirran Crusader and Knight.

For those of you running SFM, you should look into Manriki-Gusari again for the Esper matchup. Next-leveling your opponent by popping their Equipment is great. SoLaS is also decent now, even if you don't think so. STP and token proof is a big deal in the Esper matchup. Yes they can block with Snap, but there's nothing you can do.

I feel like I want more Pulses, yet I still want more hand disruption. I *may* shave GSZ down to 2 to fit in the second Pulse, but I'm not certain.

@ Punishing Fire Jund

Yes, P. Fire Jund is a much harder matchup, but remember that it's only by luck they're assembling the full combo. BBE is a beating, but remember he's only a 3/2. Just don't block Goyfs with Goyfs and get blown out. Darkblast is going to be VERY good in this matchup, as is Equipment, Souls, and Ulvenwald Tracker. Elspeth going over the top is also great, and so is Linvala if you're playing it. This is where luck and the better player win.


So I did some write-ups about where we wanted to be with each of the matchups, specifically regarding which role we want to be. I think we have to look at each matchup and say, "What are the ways we win this matchup, and what does it look like when I win?"

BUG/RUG Tempo:

Basically, all we care about are their creatures with evasion that we can do nothing about, including Mongoose, Tombstalker, Clique, and a flipped Delver. Save STP for Tombstalker if you need to, and Delver of Secrets if you cannot. Use Decay on Goyfs and Delvers, and play around Daze. As a control deck in this matchup, you don't NEED to play anything on the first turn right into Daze. You have more time that you think you do. Fetch basics on their upkeep to play around Stifle, and land Sylvan Library. Use Lingering Souls to push and/or buy time.

In the board, again you're playing control, but don't play into Daze. Watch out for Submerge.

A win against this deck looks like you having basic lands and one threat that went all the way, with them having no threats on board and several cards in hand.

Jund:

You care most about BBE, Liliana, and Punishing Fires combo being set up. Attempt to stall Punishing Fires/BBe development by killing Deathrite in some fashion; being ahead with DRS decides the game due to mana acceleration and as Liliana bait. You're good against Liliana, and you can survive and active Liliana if need be. Souls is key. Kill their Sylvan Library on site. Use tokens to gum up the board until Knight can come down and outclass their creatures. You're the control deck, run the long game.

In the board, again, you're the control deck. Sweepers, Lingering Souls, Sylvan Library.

Your win should probably include some combination of Knight, Lingering Souls, or Equipped creatures. They'll probably have 1-2 creatures out, and maybe an active Liliana. You'll have more lands. They shouldn't have Grove.

Esperblade:

In this matchup, you are the aggro deck. You're here to disrupt and clock. Deploy threats to harass Jace, you don't fear Terminus. Use Souls to match Souls or harass an impending Jace. Use discard to nab Equipment or Jace. Play around Supreme Verdict, but don't let it stop you from laying out multiple threats. You don't have much time once Jace lands.

In the postboard games, you fear Perish, Zealous Persecution, and Sword of Feast and Famine. Use Lingering Souls if necessary to block the creature with SoFF. Maze of Ith is important at controlling Jitte. Use Abrupt Decay and discard on Equipment; Gaddock Teeg and Sylvan Library should allow you to pull ahead. When you win, they could have Equipment but no creatures. They'll have a hand out conditional counters.

TES/ANT:

You're the disruption. You need a clock with disruption. Take tutors out of their hand or key mana acceleration pieces. Use Tarmogoyf to end the game as fast as possible. When this is on, fear a possible Empty the Warrens cycle, since they may not have enough mana to do a full Tendrils cycle.

After board, you bring out removal for disruption. Again, pressure with disruption. Gaddock Teeg, Goyf, Discard. Force them to go for the Empty the Warrens kill if possible, since you can handle it with Pulse and Charm. Lower life totals make Ad Nauseum less attractive and Empty more attractive. Force the plan!

A win looks like Goyf and lands against their empty board.

Sneak and Show/Omni

Beware of Emrakul and Griselbrand in any way they come down. You're the control deck. You need to find Karakas ASAP. Use disruption and a clock, like any other combo deck. Show and Tell is the card you fear the most.

After boarding, bring in Gaddock Teeg, Needle, Charm, etc. Bring out Abrupt Decay. A win for you look like their empty board and you have a Knight and Teeg. Swing with Knight if they have no Sneak Attack out, since they can't instant speed Emrakul you.

If playing against OmniTell, all you care about is Show and Tell. Lay Gaddock Teeg to prevent FoW and hardcasting shenanigans, along with stopping the Petals of Insight kill. Use Golgari Charm in response to the first Burning Wish.

Helm Miracles:

All you care about are playing around Terminus, getting rid of Rest in Peace, and Counterbalance somewhat. Rest in Peace slows your clock and enables their combo kill, but use discard to get rid of Sensei's Divining Top, which holds the deck together. A win for you looks like any board state where they don't have Rest in Peace out.

After board, you bring in Deed, Charm, Gaddock Teeg, and Pithing Needle. Use discard to shred Top or Rest in Peace, use Needle for Top or Helm. Gaddock Teeg stops Verdict, Terminus, Entreat the Angels, Helm, and Jace. Fetch basics against Blood Moon. Recall DRS gets around Leyline of Sanctity and Energy Field.

A win for you if again, you with Gaddock Teeg locking them out and other creatures/walkers slowly beating face.

Tribal:

Watch out for their card draw/advantage engines and kill them/discard them. Reejery, Nettle Sentinel, and Ringleader all qualify. Keep removal up for attackers like Piledriver and blowouts like Sharpshooter. Use Souls as blockers when you can so Tarmogoyf and Knight can outclass them all day.

A win looks like you killing them on the swing-back, back with removal pieces for remaining blockers.

In the board, you bring in Charm, Deed, etc. Don't overextend into your mass removal and kill their main pieces when you can. Fear Combo finishes (Krenko blowout, Natural Order, etc.).

Dredge:

You're the control deck. You need to keep them off of three creatures to prevent Dread Return. Sac creatures to kill Bridge from Below when possible, always go for Ooze and if not, use Shaman. You win because they have tokens out, but can't Dread Return. Ideally, they have no Bridges in the yard when you win.

Out of the board, you bring in Teeg, Surgical Extraction, Deed, and Golgari charm (to muck your own creatures to kill Bridges. Keep in some discard to fight early Breakthroughs. Surgically Extract key Dredgers in the early game or Dread Return targets/Bridge from Below.




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Thoughts? I think knowing what you're trying to do in each matchup is important so you know where your deck is going. Having a proactive game plan is important instead of being totally reactive.


-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Against an active Mother of Runes, you need to swing in with something and have them block. Then, when they attempt to grant protection, you muck them with a removal spell. The match is easier with Garruk Relentless, since you can poop Deathtouch Wolves and make them use the protection (it gets better when Tracker shows up). Postboard, Deed and Golgari Charm just fucking level Maverick into the ground. Their only threat that survives either of those is Mirran Crusader and Knight.

For those of you running SFM, you should look into Manriki-Gusari again for the Esper matchup. Next-leveling your opponent by popping their Equipment is great. SoLaS is also decent now, even if you don't think so. STP and token proof is a big deal in the Esper matchup. Yes they can block with Snap, but there's nothing you can do.

I feel like I want more Pulses, yet I still want more hand disruption. I *may* shave GSZ down to 2 to fit in the second Pulse, but I'm not certain.

@ Punishing Fire Jund

Yes, P. Fire Jund is a much harder matchup, but remember that it's only by luck they're assembling the full combo. BBE is a beating, but remember he's only a 3/2. Just don't block Goyfs with Goyfs and get blown out. Darkblast is going to be VERY good in this matchup, as is Equipment, Souls, and Ulvenwald Tracker. Elspeth going over the top is also great, and so is Linvala if you're playing it. This is where luck and the better player win.

So I did some write-ups about where we wanted to be with each of the matchups, specifically regarding which role we want to be. I think we have to look at each matchup and say, "What are the ways we win this matchup, and what does it look like when I win?"

BUG/RUG Tempo:

Basically, all we care about are their creatures with evasion that we can do nothing about, including Mongoose, Tombstalker, Clique, and a flipped Delver. Save STP for Tombstalker if you need to, and Delver of Secrets if you cannot. Use Decay on Goyfs and Delvers, and play around Daze. As a control deck in this matchup, you don't NEED to play anything on the first turn right into Daze. You have more time that you think you do. Fetch basics on their upkeep to play around Stifle, and land Sylvan Library. Use Lingering Souls to push and/or buy time.

In the board, again you're playing control, but don't play into Daze. Watch out for Submerge.

A win against this deck looks like you having basic lands and one threat that went all the way, with them having no threats on board and several cards in hand.

Jund:

You care most about BBE, Liliana, and Punishing Fires combo being set up. Attempt to stall Punishing Fires/BBe development by killing Deathrite in some fashion; being ahead with DRS decides the game due to mana acceleration and as Liliana bait. You're good against Liliana, and you can survive and active Liliana if need be. Souls is key. Kill their Sylvan Library on site. Use tokens to gum up the board until Knight can come down and outclass their creatures. You're the control deck, run the long game.

In the board, again, you're the control deck. Sweepers, Lingering Souls, Sylvan Library.

Your win should probably include some combination of Knight, Lingering Souls, or Equipped creatures. They'll probably have 1-2 creatures out, and maybe an active Liliana. You'll have more lands. They shouldn't have Grove.

Esperblade:

In this matchup, you are the aggro deck. You're here to disrupt and clock. Deploy threats to harass Jace, you don't fear Terminus. Use Souls to match Souls or harass an impending Jace. Use discard to nab Equipment or Jace. Play around Supreme Verdict, but don't let it stop you from laying out multiple threats. You don't have much time once Jace lands.

In the postboard games, you fear Perish, Zealous Persecution, and Sword of Feast and Famine. Use Lingering Souls if necessary to block the creature with SoFF. Maze of Ith is important at controlling Jitte. Use Abrupt Decay and discard on Equipment; Gaddock Teeg and Sylvan Library should allow you to pull ahead. When you win, they could have Equipment but no creatures. They'll have a hand out conditional counters.

TES/ANT:

You're the disruption. You need a clock with disruption. Take tutors out of their hand or key mana acceleration pieces. Use Tarmogoyf to end the game as fast as possible. When this is on, fear a possible Empty the Warrens cycle, since they may not have enough mana to do a full Tendrils cycle.

After board, you bring out removal for disruption. Again, pressure with disruption. Gaddock Teeg, Goyf, Discard. Force them to go for the Empty the Warrens kill if possible, since you can handle it with Pulse and Charm. Lower life totals make Ad Nauseum less attractive and Empty more attractive. Force the plan!

A win looks like Goyf and lands against their empty board.

Sneak and Show/Omni

Beware of Emrakul and Griselbrand in any way they come down. You're the control deck. You need to find Karakas ASAP. Use disruption and a clock, like any other combo deck. Show and Tell is the card you fear the most.

After boarding, bring in Gaddock Teeg, Needle, Charm, etc. Bring out Abrupt Decay. A win for you look like their empty board and you have a Knight and Teeg. Swing with Knight if they have no Sneak Attack out, since they can't instant speed Emrakul you.

If playing against OmniTell, all you care about is Show and Tell. Lay Gaddock Teeg to prevent FoW and hardcasting shenanigans, along with stopping the Petals of Insight kill. Use Golgari Charm in response to the first Burning Wish.

Helm Miracles:

All you care about are playing around Terminus, getting rid of Rest in Peace, and Counterbalance somewhat. Rest in Peace slows your clock and enables their combo kill, but use discard to get rid of Sensei's Divining Top, which holds the deck together. A win for you looks like any board state where they don't have Rest in Peace out.

After board, you bring in Deed, Charm, Gaddock Teeg, and Pithing Needle. Use discard to shred Top or Rest in Peace, use Needle for Top or Helm. Gaddock Teeg stops Verdict, Terminus, Entreat the Angels, Helm, and Jace. Fetch basics against Blood Moon. Recall DRS gets around Leyline of Sanctity and Energy Field.

A win for you if again, you with Gaddock Teeg locking them out and other creatures/walkers slowly beating face.

Tribal:

Watch out for their card draw/advantage engines and kill them/discard them. Reejery, Nettle Sentinel, and Ringleader all qualify. Keep removal up for attackers like Piledriver and blowouts like Sharpshooter. Use Souls as blockers when you can so Tarmogoyf and Knight can outclass them all day.

A win looks like you killing them on the swing-back, back with removal pieces for remaining blockers.

In the board, you bring in Charm, Deed, etc. Don't overextend into your mass removal and kill their main pieces when you can. Fear Combo finishes (Krenko blowout, Natural Order, etc.).

Dredge:

You're the control deck. You need to keep them off of three creatures to prevent Dread Return. Sac creatures to kill Bridge from Below when possible, always go for Ooze and if not, use Shaman. You win because they have tokens out, but can't Dread Return. Ideally, they have no Bridges in the yard when you win.

Out of the board, you bring in Teeg, Surgical Extraction, Deed, and Golgari charm (to muck your own creatures to kill Bridges. Keep in some discard to fight early Breakthroughs. Surgically Extract key Dredgers in the early game or Dread Return targets/Bridge from Below.

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Thoughts? I think knowing what you're trying to do in each matchup is important so you know where your deck is going. Having a proactive game plan is important instead of being totally reactive.

-Matt

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Surgicals should target narcomoeba, ichorid or nether shadow first. They need real creatures before they can make fake ones. StP pimps asap.

re:Elves, we like our Wirewood Symbiotes and Quirion Rangers staying alive very much, they allow us to Maze of Ith basically anything grounded. Flying Jittes can be answered, but are generally nightmarish. Teeg makes flying Jittes hard to answer because it shuts down GSZ. Teeg also stops NO=>Regal for a new hand and a big beater, and NO=>Prog from the side. Elves generally have a surprisingly amazing fair game, but that can be dealt with. Just don't underestimate them or you'll die. Kill the bouncers. Nettle Sentinel is irrelevant. Land Teeg, protect Teeg, and kill the bouncers.

I've been doing more tweaks, and I have dropped GSZ completely. I think Stoneforge is a better toolbox route, and I really, really want Lingering Souls in my maindeck. I've been thinking a lot about it, and I have come to this conclusion:

Lingering Souls is Serra Angel, pure and simple, and SA was at one time *the best* white creature you could play. The more things change, the more they stay the same...


4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
3x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Tarmogoyf
2x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Tidehollow Sculler


3x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Lingering Souls
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sylvan Library
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Batterskull
1x Jitte

4x Wasteland
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Marsh Flats
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Misty Rainforest
2x Bayou
2x Scrubland
1x Savannah
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Treetop Village
1x Horizon Canopy

Sideboard:

3x Natural Order
1x Progenitus
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Choke
2x Pernicious Deed
3x Surgical Extraction
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Vindicate


So now the big open question for me is this: folks have been talking about Hero of Bladehold, mostly in Deadguy Ale. Someone just mentioned it about a page pack in this thread, and I want to dig in a little further (even though I think I have settled on a pretty damn good list for now. I just need a Karakas and I'll be in great shape...) Hero is one hell of a threat, even if it does cost 4 mana. I borrowed from Deadguy for the Sculler technology, which has worked out fantastic for me. I'd love to hear some thoughts on it. It seems too high on the curve at 4 mana, but I already play close the critical mass of 3-drops in my deck (total of 7: 3 Knights, 2 Souls, 2 Lilianas)

What do folks think about Hero?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

What do folks think about Hero?

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actually i do not like him, he costs 4 mana and has the exact same manacost as elspeth which i think is superior to hero

I can't believe I forgot about Stony Silence. I was looking for a slot that does well against Helm as well as Esper, and that's the card. Needle also does work in hitting Griselbrand and Jace, but Stony is brutality against Top, Equipment, Helm, etc. It'll really help swing the match against Esper, I think. Not being able to Equip nor use Jitte abilities seems FINE to me.

My sideboard at the moment:

2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Stony Silence
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant (but also open)
2 Golgari Charm
2 Open/Hymn/Duress

I'm not running any artifacts of my own, so I'm okay with Stony. Might not be so good in the Equipment builds.

-Matt

Jitte is so strong against Esper but they need it more agains us than we do against them since our guys are generally bigger.

Don't forget, Stony Silence can also come in against TES too.

Question: does Null Rod do the same as Stony Silence? If I read the oracle-text it looks like it, but I'm not entirely sure...

It does, but artifact removal is more prevelant than enchantment removal, so I'm sure that helps in giving Stony Silence the edge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

It does, but artifact removal is more prevelant than enchantment removal, so I'm sure that helps in giving Stony Silence the edge.

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this is probably true, but i think if the issue is having the cards available null rod will do just as fine, and has less requirements to your manabase, but that should not really be a problem

Stony Silence is like a $.99 rare that is Standard legal, so card availability shouldn't be an issue. I think if you're looking to run something like that, Stony Silence gets the nod.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

Stony Silence is like a $.99 rare that is Standard legal, so card availability shouldn't be an issue. I think if you're looking to run something like that, Stony Silence gets the nod.

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Helps stop the colour fixing in Sneak since they need Petals to lay down multiple Sneak Attackers, usually. The bonus against Storm is also decent.

-Matt

Just got the "OK" for SCG KC this weekend. Bringing the deck down. Have most of the list figured but running out of ideas/inspiration.

This is where I am:


1 Birds of Paradise
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Qasali Pridemage
2-3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

2-4 Swords to Plowshares
2-4 Abrupt Decay

1 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Green Sun's Zenith

2 Sylvan Library

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant

1 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Treetop Village
3 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp

Sideboard

3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thalia, Gaudian of Threban
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Golgari Charm
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Open (Thinking Pernicious Deed or Maelstrom Pulse #2 for one space)

Anyone have idea(s)? I am open to suggestion but I do value the "Why" a lot.