[Deck] 12 Post

Has anyone tried out the Punishing Fire build? I just picked up some Groves for another deck and wanted to see if that version had any legs. Also, there was some mention of trying the deck with Abrupt Decay and Deluge. Any one end up trying that out?

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Originally Posted by Emrakul503

Has anyone tried out the Punishing Fire build? I just picked up some Groves for another deck and wanted to see if that version had any legs. Also, there was some mention of trying the deck with Abrupt Decay and Deluge. Any one end up trying that out?

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I haven't tried the punshing fire build, but I did used to run bg with decay and deathrite. It was sweet but it didn't seem to pack the same punch as running CG or GW

I've been trying the boozelist with a couple of slight modifications. Most recently I've decided to split the 2x old Kozilek with 1 each old and new. Having had the chance to cast it several times now, I've seldom been disappointed. The card draw generally favors more cards, and the discard ability I think is largely untapped at this point. Having the option to tutor either through eye adds unpredictability to the deck. Lastly, the menace ability is not without utility either, clearing the way through a mess of cheap cards.

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Originally Posted by Ponders

I've been trying the boozelist with a couple of slight modifications. Most recently I've decided to split the 2x old Kozilek with 1 each old and new. Having had the chance to cast it several times now, I've seldom been disappointed. The card draw generally favors more cards, and the discard ability I think is largely untapped at this point. Having the option to tutor either through eye adds unpredictability to the deck. Lastly, the menace ability is not without utility either, clearing the way through a mess of cheap cards.

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I'd be very interested to hear how this goes. I've got a build online with new Koz in there, but I haven't spent much time actually testing it.

Blatantly stole a list from TheBoozeCube (might be off by a couple of cards depending on sideboard changes you made since you last posted your list) and played my first two leagues on MTGO with it.

Went a glorious 1-4:
1-2 Aluren
0-2 RW Painter
2-0 Elves
1-2 BUG Delver
0-2 Storm

and a slightly less glorious 5-0:
2-0 Food Chain
2-0 Dredge
2-0 W Eldrazi
2-0 Bugrw Delver
2-1 Shardless

Guess matchups do matter slightly. ;)

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Originally Posted by Zotmaster

A week or two ago I came across a pretty unusual list while I was streaming. It was sort of a mash-up between classic 12-Post strategies and the Eldrazi Stompy lists that are picking up steam. I won the match but I liked the list enough that I wrote it down in the hopes of trying it later. This week, I figured I might as well go for it, changed the existing list slightly and ran with it, winning my weekly. I don't remember the name of the opponent, so if you were that opponent I played against on Cockatrice, feel free to post here and I'll give you credit.

3 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva

4 Expedition Map
4 Pithing Needle
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Trinisphere

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Endbringer
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 Oblivion Sower
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Wurmcoil Engine

2 Karn Liberated
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

2 All is Dust

SIDEBOARD

3 Chalice of the Void
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Wurmcoil Engine

Matchups were Imperial Taxes (2-1), LED Dredge (2-0), Mono-green 12-Post (2-1), and Shardless BUG (2-1). I had one win against Dredge and one against Post on mulligans to 4.

Overall, the deck was a huge surprise and a lot of fun to play. Maindeck Relics fight Deathrite Shaman very well and give you an outside shot of beating fast combo since Crop Rotation is no longer an option. Relic also plays really nice with Oblivion Sower. Talk about a pleasant surprise; I was really impressed with Sower. Against Imperial Taxes I ripped a Wasteland and a Karakas, and the second game I got rid of most of his answers. Past that, it's a big enough body that pretty much no Legacy-playable creature will ever kill it in combat without deathtouch or a few friends. Eldrazi Temple just felt unfair: being able to cast Thought-Knot Seer on turn 2 and Oblivion Sower on turn 3 is absolutely nuts and can cause the game to spiral out of control very quickly. Kozinext actually makes more sense in this build than his older brother: this deck is a slave to its topdecks, but other than lands it tends to play out its hand extremely quickly. Because of this, being able to restock and protect what you do have is more useful than recursion and a guaranteed four cards. There is a little flexibility in the main: Endbringer is good, but not fantastic, and there are definitely arguments for the fourth Sower or even an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to give you more value off grabbing fetchlands and the like. As this deck is entirely colorless, Karn actually makes a lot of sense as a form of spot removal, and with a slightly higher creature density he's a little easier to protect. This deck can also comfortably run Chalice of the Void, which can cause headaches for a lot of decks; including more traditional Post builds. I could see adding a fourth to the board and cutting the fourth Wurmcoil or something.

All in all, I definitely plan on playing a list like this again to see where it can go.

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You not would play the main chalice of void?

would remove 2 Endbringer by one urborg and one sower?

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Originally Posted by caprino

You not would play the main chalice of void?

would remove 2 Endbringer by one urborg and one sower?

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I'm actually not sure yet. I currently have 12 CMC 1 artifacts in the main deck. Chalice of the Void on 1 is by far the most common number played in Legacy, but I definitely want to play Pithing Needle in basically every matchup, and I'm almost always happy to play a Relic of Progenitus as well. I've thought about cutting Expedition Map but I'm still on the fence about it. I've definitely thought about Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth but I think I play out my hand too quickly to want to take a turn to Map for it (since you can't count on drawing the singleton naturally).

I'm also not sure about Endbringer, yet. The deck does have quite a few 6 drops, but I like him better than most of the other 6 drops with the possible exception of Steel Hellkite. I'd actually really love to run Eldrazi Displacer. The problem, though, is I'd be counting on having a Cavern of Souls or having to also run Corrupted Crossroads to cast it on curve. Endbringer's array of abilities are still pretty nice, as he largely feels like a better Staff of Nin, and in a pinch he can also do things like stall scary creatures from Reanimator or Sneak and Skill from attacking. It's likely that if I run another Eldrazi, it would be Matter Reshaper as I could cast it with reasonable consistency on turn 2 or 3 at the absolute latest.

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Originally Posted by Zotmaster

I'm actually not sure yet. I currently have 12 CMC 1 artifacts in the main deck. Chalice of the Void on 1 is by far the most common number played in Legacy, but I definitely want to play Pithing Needle in basically every matchup, and I'm almost always happy to play a Relic of Progenitus as well. I've thought about cutting Expedition Map but I'm still on the fence about it. I've definitely thought about Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth but I think I play out my hand too quickly to want to take a turn to Map for it (since you can't count on drawing the singleton naturally).

I'm also not sure about Endbringer, yet. The deck does have quite a few 6 drops, but I like him better than most of the other 6 drops with the possible exception of Steel Hellkite. I'd actually really love to run Eldrazi Displacer. The problem, though, is I'd be counting on having a Cavern of Souls or having to also run Corrupted Crossroads to cast it on curve. Endbringer's array of abilities are still pretty nice, as he largely feels like a better Staff of Nin, and in a pinch he can also do things like stall scary creatures from Reanimator or Sneak and Skill from attacking. It's likely that if I run another Eldrazi, it would be Matter Reshaper as I could cast it with reasonable consistency on turn 2 or 3 at the absolute latest.

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You can add a list that would play right now so I try it online and at the end I have a tournament month

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Originally Posted by Zotmaster

A week or two ago I came across a pretty unusual list while I was streaming. It was sort of a mash-up between classic 12-Post strategies and the Eldrazi Stompy lists that are picking up steam. I won the match but I liked the list enough that I wrote it down in the hopes of trying it later. This week, I figured I might as well go for it, changed the existing list slightly and ran with it, winning my weekly. I don't remember the name of the opponent, so if you were that opponent I played against on Cockatrice, feel free to post here and I'll give you credit.

3 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva

4 Expedition Map
4 Pithing Needle
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Trinisphere

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Endbringer
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 Oblivion Sower
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Wurmcoil Engine

2 Karn Liberated
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

2 All is Dust

SIDEBOARD

3 Chalice of the Void
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Wurmcoil Engine

Matchups were Imperial Taxes (2-1), LED Dredge (2-0), Mono-green 12-Post (2-1), and Shardless BUG (2-1). I had one win against Dredge and one against Post on mulligans to 4.

Overall, the deck was a huge surprise and a lot of fun to play. Maindeck Relics fight Deathrite Shaman very well and give you an outside shot of beating fast combo since Crop Rotation is no longer an option. Relic also plays really nice with Oblivion Sower. Talk about a pleasant surprise; I was really impressed with Sower. Against Imperial Taxes I ripped a Wasteland and a Karakas, and the second game I got rid of most of his answers. Past that, it's a big enough body that pretty much no Legacy-playable creature will ever kill it in combat without deathtouch or a few friends. Eldrazi Temple just felt unfair: being able to cast Thought-Knot Seer on turn 2 and Oblivion Sower on turn 3 is absolutely nuts and can cause the game to spiral out of control very quickly. Kozinext actually makes more sense in this build than his older brother: this deck is a slave to its topdecks, but other than lands it tends to play out its hand extremely quickly. Because of this, being able to restock and protect what you do have is more useful than recursion and a guaranteed four cards. There is a little flexibility in the main: Endbringer is good, but not fantastic, and there are definitely arguments for the fourth Sower or even an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to give you more value off grabbing fetchlands and the like. As this deck is entirely colorless, Karn actually makes a lot of sense as a form of spot removal, and with a slightly higher creature density he's a little easier to protect. This deck can also comfortably run Chalice of the Void, which can cause headaches for a lot of decks; including more traditional Post builds. I could see adding a fourth to the board and cutting the fourth Wurmcoil or something.

All in all, I definitely plan on playing a list like this again to see where it can go.

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I've been playing style of deck for awhile, although a bit differently:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Eye of Ugin
3 Karakas
4 Vesuva

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Grim Monolith
4 Basalt Monolith
4 Thran Dynamo
1 Hedron Archive
4 Coercive Portal

2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

3 Karn Liberated
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

//SIDEBOARD
SB: 4 Lodestone Golem
SB: 4 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Duplicant
SB: 1 Trinisphere

Just a thought, but Tolaria West could also work as a land tutor. I've been thinking about how a mono-blue might work, I don't know that its viable but might be fun to test.

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Originally Posted by Mockingbird

I've been playing style of deck for awhile, although a bit differently:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Eye of Ugin
3 Karakas
4 Vesuva

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Grim Monolith
4 Basalt Monolith
4 Thran Dynamo
1 Hedron Archive
4 Coercive Portal

2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

3 Karn Liberated
4 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

//SIDEBOARD
SB: 4 Lodestone Golem
SB: 4 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Duplicant
SB: 1 Trinisphere

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Cool, Legendary MUD! How has this been for you? I have the Metalworker variant built, but I am very interested in this variant. I'd probably tweak this list in a few places if I were to try this version though: -1x Hedron Archive, -1x Trinisphere, +2 Ensnaring Bridge. Trinisphere is generally a lousy top deck, and I feel like Ensnaring Bridge is just too good in the deck, and too good in the metagame to be omitted.

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Originally Posted by Ponders

Just a thought, but Tolaria West could also work as a land tutor. I've been thinking about how a mono-blue might work, I don't know that its viable but might be fun to test.

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I was thinking of this exact thing a couple of days ago. I haven't playtested it at all, but I brainstormed this list:

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Island
3 Tolaria West
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pithing Needle
3 Candelabra of Tawnos

4 Brainstorm
4 Repeal
4 Trickbind
4 Force of Will
3 Ponder

Partially inspired by the use of Trickbind as an answer to Wasteland, and partially inspired by the success of theBoozeCube's list without Primeval Titan. Maybe there's one too many Needles, and there might need to be more blue sources. Maybe a light white splash would be good. With so much blue manipulation, Terminus could come in from the board.

I want to test at some point!

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Originally Posted by Drake0525

Cool, Legendary MUD! How has this been for you? I have the Metalworker variant built, but I am very interested in this variant. I'd probably tweak this list in a few places if I were to try this version though: -1x Hedron Archive, -1x Trinisphere, +2 Ensnaring Bridge. Trinisphere is generally a lousy top deck, and I feel like Ensnaring Bridge is just too good in the deck, and too good in the metagame to be omitted.

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It's been working surprisingly well. When I first tried it out, I thought it'd just be a heap of fun cards... but I keep winning. Biggest issue is the standard MUD issue of the mana bases screwing itself over through City of Traitors or I have to rely too heavily on Ancient Tomb.

My word of caution on Ensnaring Bridge is you may want to cut into the Coercive Portals for those because Portal makes keeping hand sizes down difficult.

Has anyone played against the new Lands build with black, and found the matchup to differ significantly from normal RG Lands?

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Originally Posted by k_omega

Has anyone played against the new Lands build with black, and found the matchup to differ significantly from normal RG Lands?

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Yes. Abrupt Decay is very annoying when you're on pithing needle for wasteland. I heavily dislike it

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Originally Posted by mykatdied

Yes. Abrupt Decay is very annoying when you're on pithing needle for wasteland. I heavily dislike it

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Abrupt is one of those wondercards that keeps the format stagnant. I don't remember from where I saw the list but its definitely one of the top played cards in legacy, along with wasteland. I think post in a way needs to get more in grain with the format, instead of against it.

Is anybody else as unimpressed with Kozilek as I have been recently? In my last ~25matches with a mono green build of the deck, I have searched for him with Eye of Ugin zero times, have naturally cast him one time (where he resulted in an immediate concession - but as my opponent had no board presence and no cards in hand any other threat would have had the same result) and he is the card I nearly always cut first when boarding. Maybe I'm just not using him right, but in the matchups I keep getting online, he seems pretty underwhelming.

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Originally Posted by Sisyphos

Is anybody else as unimpressed with Kozilek as I have been recently? In my last ~25matches with a mono green build of the deck, I have searched for him with Eye of Ugin zero times, have naturally cast him one time (where he resulted in an immediate concession - but as my opponent had no board presence and no cards in hand any other threat would have had the same result) and he is the card I nearly always cut first when boarding. Maybe I'm just not using him right, but in the matchups I keep getting online, he seems pretty underwhelming.

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Which kozilek are you referring to - new / old?
though i have to admit i tutor for the new ulamog more frequently, i regularly tutor for kozilek as well (depending on the state of the board). For example, if i don't have emrakul mana and the opponent doesn't have a problematic permanent i go for kozilek, as he will draw into more threats/answers. The new one also gives you an edge against certain combo match-ups. I had a few games where the new kozilek won me games against storm. Against storm i never board out the new kozilek. However kozilek doesn't do much in other match-ups like Elves (i always board him out in this match-up). All in all i like him MB, as he gives the deck more versatility. Ulamog is great, but sometimes useless as well (storm, elves, ...). I guess it's a meta call in the end...?

FYI, the legacy deck of the day is 12post!
http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...egacy-12-post/

At this point, people start complaining about it being a suboptimal list. That's right, I know how y'all roll.

Does the write not know that candelabra uses mana to activate? He suggests 3 cloudposts can make 17 mana with a candel. That is suggesting that casting it untaps all your land. Or 1 mana untap 3 if it is already in play