Printable View
Typically, when we say Eldrazi, we meant Eldrazi aggro. As in, it uses Thought-knot and Reality Smasher.Quote:
Originally Posted by caprino
The opponent your ran into is Colorless Eldrazi Ramp. It's more like MUD, and it's uncommon. It uses Key and Thran dynamo to ramp up to cast the New Kozelik, the Great Distortion, which would enable him to draw more Eldrazi. To be honest, this build is much closer toward the UG 12 Post, so I would just let it go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Echinoderm
Welcome to Legacy, where Voltaic Key is not as good as it seems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echinoderm
It's bad with Metalworker and Monolith b/c of Chalice of the Void. It's also bad because pithing needle and Revoker. Also, Time Vault is why it's good, and its banned from Legacy.
Played a Predict list in a local GPT for Columbus yesterday, felt really solid. Went 3-1-1 (Beat Merfolk, lost to Sneak&Show, Beat UW Thopter Control, beat RUG Control, drew with Elves, then lost to MUD in top8).
I've been having consistent trouble with Sneak and Show lately, and I'm wondering if that's just an inherent weakness of the cantrip-heavy builds, or if I'm doing something wrong? (Low sample size too, I could just be getting unlucky)
List for reference:
2 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
2 Plains
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterbalance
1 Counterspell
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Force of Will
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Ponder
2 Predict
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
Sideboard:
1 Batterskull
1 Containment Priest
1 Council's Judgment
2 Flusterstorm
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Wear // Tear
Boarding looked something like: -1 Plains, -4 Terminus, -4 Swords to Plowshares, -1 Spell Snare | +2 Vendilion Clique, +2 Flusterstorm, +1 REB, +1 Pyroblast, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Surgical Extraction, +1 Containment Priest, +1 Council's Judgment.
Should I be bringing in the Stoneforge Package to have an early threat? I have more cards I want to take out than stuff to bring in which is a red flag to me.
I think cantrip-heavy builds definitely are weaker against SnT decks.
As a hedge, I play 1 Clique and 1 Karakas main, in addition to Spell Pierce which often hits what I want it to hit.
I don't think SnS cares that you have an SFM/Bskull since they only need to worry about 1 threat sticking. If you're finding you're taking out more, then leave in some number of Terminus just in case you find yourself in a situation where you can make sure it resolves (i.e. They SnT through a Boseiju so your FoW is still sitting in your hand.)
What is CJ for?
Yeah, that all makes sense. I'll probably have to make some tweaks if people keep playing SnT locally.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
CJ is for the same reason you're suggesting leaving in Terminus, with the upside of being a 3 for Counterbalance. It's not great, but I don't have anything better.
Wear//Tear seems good against that :3::r: enchantment. And they might even bring in Pithing Needle to name Karakas/Top/whatever.
Some people board out Entreat. Council's judgment is also decent, considering some list play Pithing Needle, Jace the Mind Sculptor, and Omniscience against you games 2 and 3. Doesn't hurt that it hits sneak and show, either.Quote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk
The real SB hate-bear against combo in general is Not Containment priest, it's Canonist.Quote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk
Instead of focusing on cantrip-heavy builds, the difference is Karakas and Clique. It's not just Show and Tell decks, has impact against Reanimator and Storm as well. Narrow in on Sneak and Show MU, they cannot win outright if you have both Karakas + needle in play. They have to deal with either permanents via Blood Moon or Wipe Away first. Yes, we want as much interaction on the stack as possible, Entreat is useless in most scenarios, other than flipping it against Show and Tell when you already have CB in play.
Here is a small corner case: Supreme Verdict. It's another CMC 4 card you can flip via CB against Sneak Attack. In the case your opponent manages to get one fatty into play Not via Sneak Attack, Verdict can buy you turns regardless they draw 7 or not.
Canonist and Verdict are fine cards, but not super helpful for Sneak and Show in particular. Personally I'm still a huge fan of Meddling Mage vs combo, I just have trouble finding room for all the sideboard cards I want, which is a general issue of the cantrip-heavy builds that have pushed Clique into those sideboard slots instead of the maindeck. The right 'middle ground' answer is probably to cut Predict to move the Cliques main, then add appropriate hatebears to the 2 new sideboard slots. I just don't want to get too hungup on beating my local store's ~25 person metagame, I'd rather have a list that's ready for a bigger field so I'm comfortable with my choices before the GP in June, considering I only get to play once or twice a month these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
A sideboard that beats up on combo, while maintaining the cantrip heavy maindeck:Quote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk
1 Clique maindeck.
Sideboard:
3x ReB/Pyro
2x Flusterstorm
2x Wear/Tear
2x Clique (3 in total)
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Containment Priest
1x Engineered Explosves
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Blood Moon.
That sideboard is excellent.
anyone see Joe Lossett's stream last night with Legends Miracles....he tossed in 2 Nahiri's and -1 Jace and -1 Council's Judgement.....thoughts? It was interesting
Post-sideboard or main?Quote:
Originally Posted by MiraclesWizard
Which Nahiri? If the :2::r::w: one, that just's silly since that card doesn't synergize with anything in the deck.
If the :3::w::w: one, well a good Legacy player once told me that our non-land permanents should be able to win us the game. I don't see how she does that more effectively than Jace. That Nahiri is better suited to a Blade-style deck. Now, some SBs like to play the Blade package, so she would likely do better in those builds. But I don't recall seeing the Blade package in Joe's most recent list.
CJ is a flex card, though one that I would rather have somewhere in the 75 than not.
it was the :2::r::w: :eek::eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
I missed it, but the replay is still unmuted if you go to his twitch stream!
Edit: I would also assume it was mostly for fun.
i know he was trying to get rid of council's judgement to avoid double plains in the mb and go back to a double cavern and mentor setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotkenmendo
Maybe he's testing a planeswalker that is immune to REB effets (nahiri). However, i think that Keranos is a better option with Cavern of Souls.
I did not watch the stream either but a friend of mine is testing 1 Nahiri, 1 Emrakul as new "tech". Tick her up 2 times, go fetch Emrakul and smash with haste. Not that I think that this is good but maybe Joe was experimenting with something similar.
i think he was goofing around, but still interesting to say the least....
What matchups does the SFM package come in against normally? I'm pretty new to the deck overall, primarily a Delver player looking to play some TundrasQuote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk
SFM/Bskull seems really good against Burn for starters. In other MUs though I don't see where that package would offer us anything that we were lacking. In other words, other MUs where the Stoneblade package is good are MUs that are in our favor already.
Incidentally, I'm having trouble against it. Here's my list:
4x Flooded Strand
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Island
2x Plains
3x Tundra
2x Volcanic Island
1x Karakas
1x Arid Mesa
3x Snapcaster Mage
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Council's Judgment
4x Terminus
3x Ponder
2x Entreat the Angels
4x Brainstorm
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
1x Spell Pierce
4x Sensei's Divining Top
SB:
1x Containment Priest
1x Moat
2x Monastery Mentor
1x Rest in Peace
2x Flusterstorm
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Blood Moon
2x Pyroblast
2x Wear // Tear
My plan was:
-1 Entreat the Angels
-2 Swords to Plowshares
-1 Spell Pierce
-1 Snapcaster Mage
-1 Ponder
+1 Rest in Peace
+2 Flusterstorm
+1 Surgical Extraction
+2 Wear // Tear
Would it be worth it to try and find things to cut to bring in the Mentors (probably 1 more Swords and 1 Terminus, going down to 1 and 3, respectively?) Seeing as Burn wins through a combination of both creatures and spells, if I can clog up the board with Mentor and Monks, I can focus my efforts on countering the spells.
Burn is not as good a MU as everyone says. Personally, i think it is at best 60/40.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
On boarding, I personally nv cut STP against burn. it's a very useful source of emergency life gain. Consequently, i will not drop Snapcaster mages as well.
Based on your list, this is what i would do.
- 1 karakas
- 1 clique
- 1 Jace
- 1 terminus
- 1 entreat
- 1 council judgements (i think it's too slow, and opens you up to PoP too much) - hard not to cast this without fetching at least 1 tundra. especially when you are focused on UU early games)
+2 flusterstorm
+2 wear/tear
+2 mentor
Should I still bring in a RIP because Exquisite Firecraft and Lavamancer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
Of all people who would be joking around, Joe is not the person to come to mind. If he's playing in a real event, he probably thinks the card is well-positioned and wants to test its potency. He's among the most dominant Miracles players in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by MiraclesWizard
CutthroatCasual's list is so close to mine, that it's scary.Quote:
Originally Posted by KZhang
The SB plan above seems solid, but I disagree on a few details:
I would cut both Jaces, and keep 2 Entreats. They are the best way to stall their creatures, and the best source for creatures to swords if needed (beware of Sulfuric Vortex nerfing life gain!). Also, you don't need to worry about it being countered, so you can slam it ASAP.
I'm uncertain about the RiP. Cutting them off from Spell Mastery and fodder for Lavamancer is probably worth loosing the value from Snapcaster. Remember you don't have to play the RiP until the right moment. (I only play one Flusterstorm, so don't need to make space for two).
Keeping in all 4 Terminus is critical for two reasons:
1) Pain-free removal for Eidolon
2) CMC=6 for Fireblast
I know who Joe is...calm down. He has joked around many times with his deck testing stuff out while laughing ridiculously hard doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ESG
Snapcaster, STP, and pierce some of the best cards in the matchup after counterbalance. Surgical extraction? What is the point of this? Let them resolve a free shock so you can reduce can exile one of their redundant spells? RIP is waaaay to narrow as well it basically turns off a small part of 4-6 cards in their deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
You beat burn by perserving your lift total as much as possible, this will run them out of cards. 3 life basically equals 1 card. This is NOT like vs delver, where you use your lift total as resource and then stabilize and lock them out at late as possible.
This means if you have a flusterstorm or pierce, you cast in the first available target. If they attack you with a Swiftspear on turn 1 for 1 damage, you swords it. If they bolt your mentor, you swords it in response. This is basically the same as duressing them and hitting a bolt, a play anyone would call good. Other than that, the only real trick is playing around firecraft.
Based your board I would do this:
- 2 Jace
- 2 Terminus
- 1 CJ
- 1 Volc
- 1 Entreat
+1 Clique
+2 Fluster
+2 Wear/tear
+2 Mentor
If this deck loses to burn, its usually by turn 4-5. Jace, terminus and entreat are too slow and are win more in the matchup. If you get to a point where you can cast a jace/entreat without losing, probably any threat could win the game. Except a threat like clique can also provided early disruption, information and act as creature removal. Terminus costing 6 is not a reason to keep it in the deck.
Like others have said though, the matchup is not a bye. If played correctly by both players it is probably 60-40 in miracles favor.
You've made some good points. Long story short, it comes down to how willing the Burn player will keep or take out Searing cards. If he decides to keep it in, or add more from SB, then your decision of adding more creatures in Clique/Mentor will backfire unnecessarily.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect
Terminus is not just for the CB flipping against Fireblast. Terminus is Also another way to take care Guide and other creatures without taking Eidolon damage, like you wrote, every life point matters. Say the Burn player happens to resolve a Vortex, somehow. Entreat is the only realistic way of racing, hence I wouldn't take it out.
going to attempt the 5th consecutive 5-0 in an hour or two @ twitch.tv/anzi104 !
If only I could watch these at work! I'll try to check it out later this week.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnziD
Personally, i won't. For RIP to be effective,Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
- i need to draw it
- they need to draw their Exquisite Firecraft
- i need to have a counterspell to be able to counter it.
- i risk making my SCM useless
I also would not want to keep too many miracle cards postboard. As TheArchitect mentioned, games often end by T4-T5. this places too much dependency on a BS if you happen to open with them, since you can't depend on Jace. And.. you might not draw a brainstorm.
Yeah unfortunately I got cremated lol went like 3-5 in matches dying to Painter, Eldrazi x2, Junk Walkers (Nahiri, Elspeth, Lili), and some other non blue deckQuote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk
Isn't Painter a good MU? I've never had major trouble against it.
He lost a single match to it, doesn't mean it's any better or worse a matchup. Around 50/50 in my experience, I've lost to it a beaten it countless times.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
it is very, very draw dependant.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
He actually had the game locked up, but the painter player had a very weird sideboard plan against him, multiple lightning bolts and sulfur elementals, as well as Ajani Vengeant. The match actually ended with triple bolt to the face, which is very atypical. The entire day was full of unluckyness, and it happens. There were a few mistakes made along the way due to receiving chat input. Streaming while playing miracles is a LOT harder than most people realize, and those who do it regularly deserve quite a bit of praise for being able to do so, like Joe, for example. He and I might differ in our philosophies, but he's a monster and I for sure recognize that.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
Until yesterday, Anzi was 20-0 with his miracles list on MTGO leagues, consecutively, which is no small feat at all. It's actually extremely impressive. So the factors included here was some amount of bad luck, a few punts, and most of all, doing all this while also streaming. It's a pretty important distinction to make and understand, so don't pass it off.
That being said, I still recommend going through the VOD and watching it all anyway, you see the express power level that a Predict-focused build provides, even if there are some misplays along the way. I certainly enjoyed the stream :D
It was a combination of a lot of things. G1 I think I threw? He resolved Ensnaring Bridge so the 1 JTMS was my out. I found it but then for some reason refused to cast it out of fear of blast, even though 3 were in the yard already. G2 was abnormal like Min said, utley's list was very hateful to Monastery Mentor which makes sense since the deck naturally suffers to the nonblue threats from the Miracles deck. An EE for 4 killed my CB that I double Force'd to get onto the board and the game kinda ended after that.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
I'm wondering Flusterstorm is worth considering in this matchup
a) Only costs U, huge against Moon effects, which there may be 1 or 2 of lingering around postboard. I guess its not just U, since I'm also casting a blue spell that needs to be protected, so maybe I'd need like 3 Islands in play for it to be good?
b) Interacts with the most critical part of the game, ie the fight over Counterbalance
However... its Flusterstorm..................................................................... and my gut says that it just seems weird to have it vs the Sol Land deck. Dunno, might try it out at least once
No, I don't think Flusterstorm is where the fight is.
Lossett did defeat a Painter deck at Players' Championship.
https://youtu.be/XVsbOsRbQmc
I took third at CardKingdom's 1k tournament with Alphastryk's exact 75. List was sweet, Stoneforge was great in almost every matchup. I love transforming into a fishier deck postboard.
This tournament's meta was soooo skewed. From 1st to 5th place, 4 of the decks were Miracles. Miracles was 19% of the field with a 69% match win rate (thanks to Lordofthepit for the numbers). That's just utter dominance. Full standings and archetype breakdown is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByO...h0T0JzaUE/view
List
2 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
2 Plains
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterbalance
1 Counterspell
2 Entreat the Angels
4 Force of Will
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Ponder
2 Predict
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
// Sideboard:
1 Batterskull
1 Containment Priest
1 Council's Judgment
2 Flusterstorm
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Wear // Tear