[Deck] The Rock

i would definitely run deed in these 2 open slots, they are awesome right now... i am running 2 MD and i have been so happy with them i couldn't see myself leaving home without them anymore

i have to admit i really like the MD elspeth though, as i am thinking of moving her from my SB to the MD against all the grindy decks out there right now, plus she is a very good jace-killer (the card i fear the most having no pulse/vindicate in MD/SB)
also i like the kitchen finks in the SB, they probalby are very good in the jund matchup, how have your testings been with finks?
also i have been wondering how the treetop village has been for u so far,.... and also wondering how you can efford so much space for utilitylands/cipt lands, don't they slow you down?

anyway good luck with your list

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Originally Posted by AggroSteve

also i like the kitchen finks in the SB, they probalby are very good in the jund matchup, how have your testings been with finks?
also i have been wondering how the treetop village has been for u so far,.... and also wondering how you can efford so much space for utilitylands/cipt lands, don't they slow you down?

anyway good luck with your list

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So far, Finks has been great. It may be that I should use Lingering Souls instead for that spot but Finks has done everything that you'd really want except be discard.

The manabase is something that hasn't really changed too much since Knight made my list (was using Exploration then instead of any fixer). I haven't had too many issue with it. When GSZ got added I went to 1 basic Forest and added Arbor as another way to Ramp when needed. Arbor can typically be considered a CIP land since we can't use it until it's not sick anyway. I do lose being able to sac Arbor to edict effects but I gain more resilience to Terminus.

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Originally Posted by damionblackgear

So far, Finks has been great. It may be that I should use Lingering Souls instead for that spot but Finks has done everything that you'd really want except be discard.

The manabase is something that hasn't really changed too much since Knight made my list (was using Exploration then instead of any fixer). I haven't had too many issue with it. When GSZ got added I went to 1 basic Forest and added Arbor as another way to Ramp when needed. Arbor can typically be considered a CIP land since we can't use it until it's not sick anyway. I do lose being able to sac Arbor to edict effects but I gain more resilience to Terminus.

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whats the point of the single tarmogoyf?

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Originally Posted by KobeBryan

whats the point of the single tarmogoyf?

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I'd cut it if I could get another green Beater at 1-2cc. I'm not a fan of the Stare Contest Champ. I had it cut until Canadian Thresh became a big thing in the format again.

Matt - I think that after you hit Storm/TES with discard you want to GSZ for Scavenging Ooze. Tarmo is in my exp not fast enough. You want to shut down their PiF kill. Usually you find some confidant to add a few points of dmg.

Good list!

Went first in a 10-man 4 rounder (4-0), here's my quick list

1 sigarda, host of herons
1 scavenging ooze
3 knight of the reliquary
3 tarmogoyf
4 dark confidant
4 deathrite shaman

3 green sun's zenith
3 hymn to tourach
4 thoughtseize

3 abrupt decay
4 swords to plowshares

2 liliana of the veil
2 sensei's divining top

1 swamp
1 forest
1 plains
1 karakas
1 maze of ith
1 bojuka bog
1 savannah
2 scrubland
3 bayou
3 wasteland
4 verdant catacombs
4 marsh flats

SB

1 maelstrom pulse
1 ethersworn canonist
2 timely reinforcements
2 obstinate baloth
2 extirpate
2 pernicious deed
2 gaddock teeg
3 engineered plague

R1 vs mbc: 2-0, baloth via his liliana +1 FTW
R2 vs jund: 2-0, baloth FTW again
R3 vs reanimator: 2-0
R4 vs UWR Rest in Pieces miracle: 2-0

Notes: my SB i quite tune for my local shop meta cuz 2-3 players played goblins, 2 players played elves!, 2 players played merfolk but this time only 1 tribal deck (elves!) my 3 plagues totally not worth it. In my SB i want to play 4 baloth but wasn't able to get other 2 copies so atm i used 2 timely, I love obstinate baloth!. I cut my 4th KOTR to give room for 1 sigarda.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by damionblackgear

Just got the "OK" for SCG KC this weekend. Bringing the deck down. Have most of the list figured but running out of ideas/inspiration.

This is where I am:


1 Birds of Paradise
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Qasali Pridemage
2-3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

2-4 Swords to Plowshares
2-4 Abrupt Decay

1 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Green Sun's Zenith

2 Sylvan Library

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant

1 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Treetop Village
3 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp

Sideboard

3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thalia, Gaudian of Threban
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Golgari Charm
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Open (Thinking Pernicious Deed or Maelstrom Pulse #2 for one space)

Anyone have idea(s)? I am open to suggestion but I do value the "Why" a lot.

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With that many singletons/2-ofs wouldn't you want to play the full 4 GSZ? Just curious...

Inspired by an Eva Green list posted by Esper 3k I assembled this one:

4 d shaman
4 bob
4 tarmogoyf
4 l souls (those COULD be knights but I have not enough lands to support/abuse them)
1 tombstalker (might be anything, really, but it packs a great punch late-game)

4 thoughtseize
2 IoK
4 hymn to tourach
(yeah a bit too much but it's working wonders for me!!!)
4 stp
4 decay

2 liliana

2 sensei's divining top

4 wasteland
4 verdant catacombs
4 marsh flats
3 scrublands
3 bayou
1 forest
1 swamp
1 horizon canopy

side varies but mostly including deed, o-ring, extirpate etc
didn't test the much I wanted to but for the while I'm liking it :)

I also saw that bw tokens with g splash that someone linked here, and it seems nice.... But I think punishing jund will give it a hard time.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

With that many singletons/2-ofs wouldn't you want to play the full 4 GSZ? Just curious...

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Typically yes, you'd want 4 Zenith. I'm not a fan of virtual copies though and everything (except pridemage) can be categorized into different groups (where some fall into multiple). When you look at it that way the numbers come across differently.

Birds+Shaman = 3 Mana Fixer/Accelerates
Goyf, Knights, Sigarda, and Elspeth = 5-6 Power hitters
Pridemage, Decay, Pulse = 5 Non-creature alternatives.
etc, etc.

The board is meant to compliment the main and improve situations. It's not intended to completely revamp the gameplan against them.

Makes sense...it just looked like your list was more of a toolbox build than anything else. When you break it down, you're just using a diversified threat base and utilizing GSZ to make sure you can adapt, either in the main or side. Good conversation, I've always liked your approach to deckbuilding (although, you have to admit, it's a little quirky...)

Any updates?

-Matt

good morning guys

i thought about posting my recent list, and i would need some feedback maybe, and your thoughts on it, specially on the sideboar

23 land (61 cards total)

4 march flats
4 verdatnt catacombs
3 overgrown tomb (hopefully soon bayou)
2 godless shrine (hobefully soon scrubland)
1 temple garden (hopefully soon savannah)
1 forest
1 plains
1 swamp
3 wastland
1 karakas
1 maze of ith
1 dryad arbor

16 creatures

4 deathrite shaman
4 dark confidant
4 tarmogoyf
3 knight of the reliquary
1 quasali pridemage

15 spells

4 swords to plowshares
3 abrupt decay
2 green sun's zenith
2 inquisition of kozilek / cabal therapy (which one do you guys think is the better one for this slot? which one do you prefer?)
4 thoughtseize

artifact/enchantment

2 sensei's divining top
2 pernicious deed (have been awesome in a lot of matchups for me as of late, only worry being not to be able to answer a resolved jace MD)

3 planeswalker

2 liliana of the veil
1 elspeth, knight-errant

SIDEBOARD

3 extirpate
2 golgari charm
1 darkblast
1 abrupt decay
1 pernicious deed
2 gaddock teeg
3 tidehollow sculler / hymn to tourach (leaning towards sculler, specially vs. combo)
2 pithing needle / kitchen finks / timely reinforcements (not sure what to pick, would probably depend on the expected meta... miracles/esperblade vs. jund/rug/burn)

my questions:

- would the split between overgrown tomb and godless shrine favor more tombs or shrines considering all my spells, specially WW cost of elspeth?
- cabal therapy or inquisition ? which one is better in this list considering mediocre expierience with therapy, but therapy being able to generate card advantage/getting a jace to whom i have no MD answer, plus considering the scullers in SB?
- what is everyones expierience with running cabal therapy even in non-souls builds?
- needle vs. finks/reinforcements, considering that i have no MD answer to jace, and only having shocklands, therefore a lot of lifeloss plus considering the possible cabal therapy MD
- how has maze of ith been for everyone?, i have tried a while without it, but i often come back to it, because it is awesome against any deck running equipment, which is the main reason for me still sticking to this awesomeness, but having a non-mana producing land sometimes sucks (i tried horizon canopy in this slot as well, and i would love to fit 1 or 2 of them in the deck as they are really good specially once you are in topdeckmode, but do not know where, and i do not know if they would work well with the allready strong lifeloss present in my list)

additional thoughts

i am a little lighter to blue decks with my MD-configuration, but have more game against deck that have to commit to the board, but i think maindeck deeds right now are really good, as in most matchups we take the control-role, and a catch-all sweeper is the most awesome thing in that case IMO
i picked divining top over library specifically for that reason as i do not want to lose my library manipulation to myself being forced to deed away my opponents board
both decisions make my matchup against jacedeck a bit harder but help against most other decks in the current meta

so guys hammer me with your comments and critique :P, and thanks in advance

Hey everyone, Things did not turn out well this weekend. Not sure if I was mentally sabotaging myself, the deck wanted me to play maverick some games but ti was not pretty, or both (probably both). Ended up 2-3 before I dropped.

Played Against:
Merfolk(0-2): Played SFM and fetched SoFI knowing my opp had a second lord in hand to complement the first.
Hightide (0-2): Opponent thought they were playing maverick w/o Teeg or Thalia until turn 4 of game 2 - first black source (fetchland).
Dredge (2-0): Opponent got hit by probability and only hit 1 thing that could come into play at a time. DRS took care of those. Game 2 I had the nuts.
Esper (2-1): Double bob vs Jace = Double bob win. Opp also did know that Decay was uncounterable and blew a force on it.
Sneak Show (1-2): Game 1 Opp took, I took 2. Game 3 I kept Hymn, Birds, Lili, Pridemage + lands and Opp went turn 2 Demon no draw had the Force for Lili. Needed a Knight instead of Lili.

Overall, Poor play on my part and poor draws (possibly design) turned out poorly.

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Originally Posted by AggroSteve

- how has maze of ith been for everyone?, i have tried a while without it, but i often come back to it, because it is awesome against any deck running equipment, which is the main reason for me still sticking to this awesomeness, but having a non-mana producing land sometimes sucks (i tried horizon canopy in this slot as well, and i would love to fit 1 or 2 of them in the deck as they are really good specially once you are in topdeckmode, but do not know where, and i do not know if they would work well with the allready strong lifeloss present in my list)

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I used Kor Haven before I used the Maze. It has an activation cost but it leaves the creature tapped and only stops that creatures damage.

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Originally Posted by damionblackgear

I used Kor Haven before I used the Maze. It has an activation cost but it leaves the creature tapped and only stops that creatures damage.

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I've -strongly- considered going to Kor Haven over Maze of Ith for awhile now. The fact that they stay tapped is an enormous deal--and it taps for mana. Something that Maze of Ith sorely, sorely lacks. Plus, we aren't maverick, and I rarely use the "Attack, after combat untap my knight, eot pump knight" trick. Though maybe I should be.

Also, for the Stoneblade matchup, why do we not sneak a singleton Tower of the Magistrate in the side? Tutorable way to stop their bullshit with Stoneforge. If they can't equip a creature or keep a batterskull around this matchup seems steeply in our favor--most esper lists don't run Wasteland either.

Also, I lied, totally not playing Aggro Loam. I played it again and it felt very wrong. So I buckled down and got myself a Karakas, finally and looking to trade off most of my good blue stuff for Goyfs and Thoughtseizes.. I remember just thinking, "Wow this is not nearly as good / as fun as playing The Rock."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by damionblackgear

Hey everyone, Things did not turn out well this weekend. Not sure if I was mentally sabotaging myself, the deck wanted me to play maverick some games but ti was not pretty, or both (probably both). Ended up 2-3 before I dropped.

Played Against:
Merfolk(0-2): Played SFM and fetched SoFI knowing my opp had a second lord in hand to complement the first.
Hightide (0-2): Opponent thought they were playing maverick w/o Teeg or Thalia until turn 4 of game 2 - first black source (fetchland).
Dredge (2-0): Opponent got hit by probability and only hit 1 thing that could come into play at a time. DRS took care of those. Game 2 I had the nuts.
Esper (2-1): Double bob vs Jace = Double bob win. Opp also did know that Decay was uncounterable and blew a force on it.
Sneak Show (1-2): Game 1 Opp took, I took 2. Game 3 I kept Hymn, Birds, Lili, Pridemage + lands and Opp went turn 2 Demon no draw had the Force for Lili. Needed a Knight instead of Lili.

Overall, Poor play on my part and poor draws (possibly design) turned out poorly.



I used Kor Haven before I used the Maze. It has an activation cost but it leaves the creature tapped and only stops that creatures damage.

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Bad beats man, we all have 'em. What would you have changed about your 75 in order to better position yourself against that meta?

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

Bad beats man, we all have 'em. What would you have changed about your 75 in order to better position yourself against that meta?

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I should probably start with what I ended up with.

1 Birds of Paradise
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay

1 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Green Sun's Zenith

2 Sylvan Library

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

1 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp

Sideboard

3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Sylvan Library
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Golgari Charm
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Lingering Souls
1 Pernicious Deed


The list wasn't exactly what I wanted but I was running low on cards and didn't bring things down with me so I borrowed some things to occupy space and hopefully be useful (i.e. Library in board).

If that, some things didn't preform as well as they could have. Souls got the nod over Finks (I think I mentioned that I was thinking it earlier) and I wasn't upset at all for that change. I'd say try them both to anyone thinking about them and see which you like better.

As far as changes, I saw this mid change so I'm still going over things. This is what I've done so far (don't expect major changes):

-1 Horizon Canopy
-1 Swords to Plowshares
-1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
-1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
+1 Scrubland
+1 Abrupt Decay
+2 Lingering Souls

Reasoning: Souls showed that it was a very good card and was able to show that it does have a place even without equipment. Making Jace seem awkward is a good thing. I do, however, not want to see it all the time. So, I'm going to try it over Elspeth and Sigarda who also were being used for that effect.
I'm adding the Scrub as my color requirements are not what they where years ago and I was off on the green;black count so, Canopy --> Scrub seemed to be the best change that would accompany the change.

The Swords;Decay ratio seemed to be pretty good for me but I don't think that you need the swords as soon as you use to. The creature decks are missing (granted I played against Folk) or limited in numbers. I'd be willing to drop them soon but I'd like to make my way there first.

Board (easier to just post where I am)


3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Golgari Charm
2 Hymn to Tourach


Deed didn't feel necessary and Library was more filler than anything. So, Now I'm looking at options for the 4 slots that

Can someone explain how LSouls functions in your deck?

When I played LSouls, it sucked. So why is it so great for you?

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Originally Posted by Mirrislegend

Can someone explain how LSouls functions in your deck?

When I played LSouls, it sucked. So why is it so great for you?

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Lingering Souls usually accompanies Stoneforge Mystic. However, the biggest purpose for it is that it's flexible and it's a lot of dudes at once.

It's also a good way to help break the symmetry of Liliana of the Veil. It's also an excellent use of Cabal Therapy flashbacks, it pressures planeswalkers better than other creatures in our deck, and the tokens wear equipment like champs.

I personally mainly used it to flashback Cabal Therapies.

As a Souls player, it's usefulness boils down to your matchups. If you're playing against nothing but combo, then it'll suck hard as it does less than nothing versus them. If you're playing against control, midrange grindy decks, or decks that sport a very light creature base (RUG Delver for example), it's awesome. If I'm ahead, It allows me to apply pressure while committing very little, letting me hold back on casting Goyf/SFM/etc while my opponent finds an answer to my 2-4 1/1 flyers. If I'm even with my opponent, it often times will swing the board in my favor as Flying > underrated in Legacy combat and helps break the ground stall. If I'm behind, they can buy me a couple turns for me to dig for an answer to their board position. In every phase of the game, they're never dead.

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

As a Souls player, it's usefulness boils down to your matchups. If you're playing against nothing but combo, then it'll suck hard as it does less than nothing versus them. If you're playing against control, midrange grindy decks, or decks that sport a very light creature base (RUG Delver for example), it's awesome. If I'm ahead, It allows me to apply pressure while committing very little, letting me hold back on casting Goyf/SFM/etc while my opponent finds an answer to my 2-4 1/1 flyers. If I'm even with my opponent, it often times will swing the board in my favor as Flying > underrated in Legacy combat and helps break the ground stall. If I'm behind, they can buy me a couple turns for me to dig for an answer to their board position. In every phase of the game, they're never dead.

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Yeah, I would regularly board them out against combo decks to bring in more hate. Or as many as I could at least after boarding out all my removal.