[Primer/Deck] Pox

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Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

I think if you are correct you want either to go all in on fast mana like my curses deck or more play more conservatively.

I do think lantern won't function at all without md 3-4 chains in cantrip.format .

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If Lantern and Codex Shredder are online, I think Cantrips are already on the backfoot. I had some doubts regarding Bridge without Liliana but the deck's curve and ramp is such that only an enemy Nether Void would jam up the hand. The Rack in place of Mishra's factory can work well if you're playing the odds that you'll have 3 mana on turn 2 for the fast Bridge play. My RNG tends to be garbage and gunning for consistency is my objective at this point.

It really is a shame the newer sets, I find myself hoping for new Planeswalkers for the deck as other card types seem either too weak or too overpriced for the CMC. Setting up Pox for Topdeck cleaning seems like an excellent option with the death of the old Sensei's Divining Top. What's Curses Pox? You've caught my attention. :eek:

Hey everyone, I am semi competitive Pox player on MTGO and have the deck in paper, I just recently qualified for a major event with Legends Pox, I’ll be competing in phase 2 of the ManaTraders Legacy Series. I ended up with a 14-6 record and a 9 match winning streak during the league.

https://ibb.co/dWK55Tt

Decklist is somewhat competitive if anyone wants to try it

Main
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Pit
2 Castle Locthwain
1 Cursed Scroll
4 Dark Ritual
1 Eliminate
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Hymn to Tourach
3 Innocent Blood
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana's Triumph
1 Liliana, Waker of the Dead
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maze of Ith
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Murderous Rider
2 Nether Void
1 Phyrexian Totem
4 Smallpox
9 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thoughtseize
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
2 Ashiok, Dream Render
2 Bitterblossom
1 Eliminate
2 Engineered Plague
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pharika's Libation
2 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Toxic Deluge

2 Hymn to Tourach
3 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Pox
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
1 Nether Void
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Dark Ritual
1 Extirpate
1 Eliminate
1 Surgical Extraction
4 Mishra's Factory
12 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
3 Cursed Scroll
1 Nether Spirit
1 Murderous Rider

Sideboob

2 Collective Brutality
4 Asylum Visitor
1 Dystopia
1 Extirpate
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Plague Engineer
1 Kaervek, the Spiteful
1 Pithing Needle
1 Dead of Winter
1 Eliminate

Have the deck both in paper & MTGO. Had a Tabernacle @ Pendrall Vale but only digital of course. After much testing, it really only saved my bum against Empty the Warrens nonsense. Very nasty how Oko laughs in it's face. Eliminate & Murderous Rider are gold. Ran into more Dack Faydens, Teferi Time Ravelers & Oko, Thief of Crowns than anyone would ever like to. Using Ensnaring Bridge was alright, but after a dozen or so games, it felt underwhelming. Could be bad luck random players who won't use creatures. That and having Oko/Teferi botching it up...:frown:

Could someone explain the large number of Doomsday decks online? It's just weird.

I'd guess just easier to set up and pull off online vs in person. You don't need to keep track of mana/storm because the platform does that for you.
Or perhaps people are just bored and meme decking for the hell of it.

Mr Safety, any updates on the pox lantern brew you had?

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Originally Posted by OmniStrata

Could someone explain the large number of Doomsday decks online? It's just weird.

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Thassa's Oracle has streamlined Doomsday into legit one of the best combo decks in the format. Doomsday piles are absurdly easy to construct now and resilient to interaction. You can kill Oracle in response to the trigger but still lose, unlike with Lab Maniac back in the day. Doomsday decks also are packing cards like 3Feri so you can't counter their Doomsday. It's streamlined and doesn't auto-lose if you counter their Doomsday.

@ronco: I haven't had a chance to test the Lantern Pox list much, I don't have MTGO. I use an outdated program called MagicWorkstation, which only has sets up to Amonkhet I think. Most of the deck can operate that way with older sets but I can't goldfish against current tier decks without stuff like Uro, Oko, etc. I need to find another program to test, but I don't really want to sink money into MTGO.

@omnistrata: I don't see Ensnaring Bridge in your list, how many were you playing? I am trying to make sure I have an alternative plan out of the sideboard if Bridge ends up being bad (Bitterblossom, Plague Engineer, etc.) I am also toying with the idea of Bridge sideboard if it's dead in too many matchups.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

@omnistrata: I don't see Ensnaring Bridge in your list, how many were you playing? I am trying to make sure I have an alternative plan out of the sideboard if Bridge ends up being bad (Bitterblossom, Plague Engineer, etc.) I am also toying with the idea of Bridge sideboard if it's dead in too many matchups.

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I used to run 2 main deck and 1 sideboob in case the big bad hits the field too quickly. Dark Depths, Show & Tell and Reanimator. MTGO is fraught with Dark Depths right now. Luckily, a single Smallpox botches anything they do quite badly. I need to do some League Grinding when I get more confidence. For those of you new to MTGO, Doomsday is here!! :eek::eek: Combo and hi-synergy decks are the flavor it would seem currently.

I really miss Magic WorkStation. Allowed for some really awesome custom cards. Made some awesome Demon tokens using Kazushi Hagiwara art stocks. Last time I ran it was last year I think. MTGO has a large audience thus far. You can friend me as OmniStrata. I should buy a better avatar. The matchups I'm usually running into has the bridge as a minor annoyance. Dark Depths, D&T, ANT and Doomsday. Now I'm curious how "OG Doomsday" used to win. It runs Daze & Force of Will too currently.

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Originally Posted by OmniStrata

I used to run 2 main deck and 1 sideboob in case the big bad hits the field too quickly. Dark Depths, Show & Tell and Reanimator. MTGO is fraught with Dark Depths right now. Luckily, a single Smallpox botches anything they do quite badly. I need to do some League Grinding when I get more confidence. For those of you new to MTGO, Doomsday is here!! :eek::eek: Combo and hi-synergy decks are the flavor it would seem currently.

I really miss Magic WorkStation. Allowed for some really awesome custom cards. Made some awesome Demon tokens using Kazushi Hagiwara art stocks. Last time I ran it was last year I think. MTGO has a large audience thus far. You can friend me as OmniStrata. I should buy a better avatar. The matchups I'm usually running into has the bridge as a minor annoyance. Dark Depths, D&T, ANT and Doomsday. Now I'm curious how "OG Doomsday" used to win. It runs Daze & Force of Will too currently.

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OG Doomsday had literally a book on how to construct piles. It changed several times, but losing Sensei's Divining Top was the first major hit. Then Gitaxian Probe got banned and it really fell out of favor. Street Wraith lists popped up, but they didn't do very well. Having 'free' ways to draw extra cards was critical for digging through Doomsday piles. Their primary win conditions were Tendrils of Agony (enabled by Ill-Gotten Gains and Lion's Eye Diamond), Emrakul + Shelldock Isle, and several Predict piles that involved Laboratory Maniac. With Thassa's Oracle you can really trim down on what your pile needs to win, it's the primary win condition for Doomsday now. You don't need bad cards like Street Wraith to draw through your pile of 5 if not all of them matter as much.

Died Another Doomsday. Would use a pile using Predict, Lotus Petal, Thassa, Street Wraith and Unearth. Ugh. Misplayed an Extirpate and a Surgical Extraction both games...:mad:

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Originally Posted by OmniStrata

Died Another Doomsday. Would use a pile using Predict, Lotus Petal, Thassa, Street Wraith and Unearth. Ugh. Misplayed an Extirpate and a Surgical Extraction both games...:mad:

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Their pile looks like this:

Predict
Thassa
Lotus Petal
Street Wraith
Unearth

Your only chance to interact is when they cast unearth you can play Extirpate or Surgical Extraction on Thassa. If they have Teferi out you can't even do that. I've been eyeballing grave hate that is permanent-based lately, mostly Nihil Spellbomb, to augment my Surgical Extractions in the sideboard. Ashiok is great against the slower grave-based decks like Dredge, but against Doomsday it doesn't cut it. Leyline of the Void is another obvious choice, but I like having a couple Surgicals regardless of other grave hate. I would probably do 2x Surgical and 2-3x Nihil Spellbomb ATM.

EDIT: The lantern package would be very good against this particular deck, just sayin'...

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

Their pile looks like this:

Predict
Thassa
Lotus Petal
Street Wraith
Unearth

Your only chance to interact is when they cast unearth you can play Extirpate or Surgical Extraction on Thassa. If they have Teferi out you can't even do that. I've been eyeballing grave hate that is permanent-based lately, mostly Nihil Spellbomb, to augment my Surgical Extractions in the sideboard. Ashiok is great against the slower grave-based decks like Dredge, but against Doomsday it doesn't cut it. Leyline of the Void is another obvious choice, but I like having a couple Surgicals regardless of other grave hate. I would probably do 2x Surgical and 2-3x Nihil Spellbomb ATM.

EDIT: The lantern package would be very good against this particular deck, just sayin'...

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Technically, you were right. My patience and self-control is the problem with combo decks. The wait and see approach doesn't work with them. One misplay, I did was conservative, I had an opening grip including Urborg, Inquisition, Dark Ritual and an Extirpate. Since some builds run Force of Will, I played it safe and just Inquisition first, I chucked their Doomsday and kicked myself for not Dark Ritualing first to Extirpate as well turn 1! He top decked a Duress. :mad: That was the G2 loss. G3, I got overly aggressive with Smallpox due to G2 and ended up losing a Surgical Extraction *facepalm* :eek:

G1 I won cause I saw his opener off a Dark Ritual, Inquisition, Hymn to Tourach Trio and Cursed Scroll+Mishra him to death. :cool:

That's unfortunate! Just be ready for it, the deck isn't going anywhere. The more reps you get in against it the better off you'll be.

Just a side note, I think Ashiok actually interacts favorably for you against Doomsday because they can't search their library. I don't know if that tips the scales for including Ashiok in your 75, but it seems really good to me.

I've run into DD often enough to cause a nuisance, but not enough to press in Ashiok. I did notice, they don't use tutors, opting to just disrupt with discard and countering my key spells. They do use fetchlands often, but I run Urborgs with Wastelands and Sinkholes. I typically side in a Null Rod and remove my Scrolls vs. artifact mana decks. (older Sideboard used last month. I've replaced it with Eliminate cause Bant Control makes me weep)

They tend to lose if you get in some early whacks I noticed. :laugh: Asylum Visitor has killed many a DD player after I Big Poxed them in frustration.

Yeah, I wouldn't over-board for Doomsday. I just meant they literally *can't* play Doomsday with Ashiok out, it shuts that specific card down cold.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

Yeah, I wouldn't over-board for Doomsday. I just meant they literally *can't* play Doomsday with Ashiok out, it shuts that specific card down cold.

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Sorry, brain farted. "Search your Library". Too used to interactions failing like Tabernacle & Oko Elks or Chains of Mephistopheles vs. Bob/ANT.

I've had to replace Null Rod with Karn, the Great Creator. Paper Karn is far more wallet friendly than MTGO Karn. There's also the Cursed Scroll usage. Having to remove scrolls when I bring in Null Rod to stop artifact combo nonsense always hurt. If one were to include Karn in his 75, how would one sensibly maximize the -2 wish ability. Mycosynth Lattice seems way too far reaching as far as wishing. Although, it ends the game if enemy is hellbent and without a creature cause you killed them all... ^_^ I'm thinking the mana cost won't work in a mana base without Crucible. I tend to fight with mana counts less than 4.

Any suggestions? Nevinyrals disk is something I thought about in an oogly scenario.

Currently testing Shadow of Doubt & Cling to Dust. Their cantripping is not to be taken lightly.

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Originally Posted by OmniStrata

I've had to replace Null Rod with Karn, the Great Creator. Paper Karn is far more wallet friendly than MTGO Karn. There's also the Cursed Scroll usage. Having to remove scrolls when I bring in Null Rod to stop artifact combo nonsense always hurt. If one were to include Karn in his 75, how would one sensibly maximize the -2 wish ability. Mycosynth Lattice seems way too far reaching as far as wishing. Although, it ends the game if enemy is hellbent and without a creature cause you killed them all... ^_^ I'm thinking the mana cost won't work in a mana base without Crucible. I tend to fight with mana counts less than 4.

Any suggestions? Nevinyrals disk is something I thought about in an oogly scenario.

Currently testing Shadow of Doubt & Cling to Dust. Their cantripping is not to be taken lightly.

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Cling to dust should be a very good card for this archetype.

If you don't expect to have 6 mana for lattice then I guess you just have to go for the liquimetal plan with Karn, but I agree that 4 mana spells are pretty ambitious

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Originally Posted by kombatkiwi

Cling to dust should be a very good card for this archetype.

If you don't expect to have 6 mana for lattice then I guess you just have to go for the liquimetal plan with Karn, but I agree that 4 mana spells are pretty ambitious

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You just 100% contradicted yourself in one post. You say Cling to Dust should be very good for this archetype (a card that not only costs 4 mana but needs you to have a graveyard to exile as well) and then said 4 mana spells are pretty ambitious. I'm not really sure how to take your post. The first use of Cling is fine but the Escape is what makes the card considerable at all, and that is the place where it gets ambitious. In blue-based stew decks this card is good at padding life total and drawing cards, alongside cantrips to feed the lands to make it work. In Pox you're actively sacrificing your own lands and living off the top of your deck. I would play other options before Cling to Dust.

If you're on the Karn plan I think you need to have Lattice, it's just too good to leave out. You will need Dark Ritual or some other mana acceleration, maybe Ancient Tomb.

In other news: boys, we got 'em.

https://i.imgur.com/phFDdDh.jpg

Cling to Dust is good.
It provides incidental graveyard hate while also cantripping and provides late stalled board state options to maintain positive pressure.
Life gain is also welcome if you're using lots of Thoughtseize or Castle Locthwain effects.
Escape can also fix double dead Nether Spirits if that's your build.
It's not going to be some all star slam dunk of a card, but having game one outs to Uro is huge, and it's impact on the deck is so minimal that it's net positive.

Regarding Karn and Lattice, if you're able to get Karn out regularly, then a single sideboard LED would provide easily for the followup Lattice next turn. Not like we're used to keeping a grip of cards anyways.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

In other news: boys, we got 'em.

https://i.imgur.com/phFDdDh.jpg

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Black Enchantment killer for 2 cmc & HP?!! Sign us up! Cling to dust can keep us alive! :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

You just 100% contradicted yourself in one post. You say Cling to Dust should be very good for this archetype (a card that not only costs 4 mana but needs you to have a graveyard to exile as well) and then said 4 mana spells are pretty ambitious. I'm not really sure how to take your post. The first use of Cling is fine but the Escape is what makes the card considerable at all, and that is the place where it gets ambitious. In blue-based stew decks this card is good at padding life total and drawing cards, alongside cantrips to feed the lands to make it work. In Pox you're actively sacrificing your own lands and living off the top of your deck. I would play other options before Cling to Dust.

If you're on the Karn plan I think you need to have Lattice, it's just too good to leave out. You will need Dark Ritual or some other mana acceleration, maybe Ancient Tomb.

In other news: boys, we got 'em.

https://i.imgur.com/phFDdDh.jpg

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I'm happy to explain

Karn doesn't have any ability like flashback or escape, so you have to play him out of your hand. This means that if he's the last card in your hand and you don't have 4 mana available, then you can't cast Smallpox or plus your Liliana without discarding him to the graveyard, where he doesn't do anything. But you always want to be casting Smallpox and ticking up your Liliana, to strip resources from the opponent. so having Karn in the deck can put you in an awkward situation.

On the other hand, Cling to Dust does have escape, which means it can be cast from the graveyard. So even if it's in your opening hand, you can cast it for only 1 mana or just discard it to your Smallpox or Liliana, even if you don't have 4 lands available yet. Then, later in the game when you topdeck your 4th land, you can escape the Cling to Dust , whereas your Karn would just be sitting in the graveyard doing nothing.

Hope that was helpful :smile: