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How do you folks deal with Imperial Painter? The games I've had really depend on who starts first and G2 if I have enough Pithing Needles to protect against the combo.
I thought about how about an Eldrazi fatty like Emakrul or Kozilek? They can still be cheated into play with Show and Tell and if put into the graveyard via grindstone it causes the reshuffle effect.
Hey guys,
i am an german legacy player and spotted this deck on some bigger Events beating the hell out of me ;-) i was playing TES.
Now i decided to build the deck and do the same, it looks like this:
Lands: 15
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Scaling Tarn
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Island
2 Swamp
Creatures: 7
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona
1 Elesh Norn
1 Ashen Rider
Card Draw: 11
4 Careful Study
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
Engine: 17
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
2 Show and Tell
3 Lotus Petal
Disruption: 10
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize
Sideboard: 15
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Sigarda / Grave Titan
2 City of Traitors
2 Show and Tell
3 Pithing Needle
2 Spell Pierce
3 Duress
I guess it's pretty standard, but please tell me if something is wrong or out of date.
I didn't play it at a tournament so far, but in July there will be a big eternal event in Prague. So i want to be prepared.
Can anybody tell me, how this deck wins against miracles without abrupt decays? Sorry for this question, but as a former storm trooper, it's very hard to see.
My Meta looks something like this: Show and Tell, Elves, Miracles, BUG, UWR Delver, Death&Taxes, Storm
Can anybody tell me, why so few reanimator decks run EE in the SB?
Most of them also don't play Chain of Vapor or ET so..
How do they handle a Cage, a RiP or a Leyline if they can't find a Show and Tell in time?
The recent lists run JTMS and some times Cliques as a plan B, so in addition to the S&T, we have additional win conditions. We also do have discard and FOW, so those permanents won't always hit play. This is also why bounce is not as necessary, since we can just win via Clique and Jace.Quote:
Originally Posted by ultraviolent2
This is not the best example since JTMS never entered play, but Game 2 against Sneak and Show, my opponent has 2 cages, which I had no outs to since I also took out S&T and added 2 cliques and 2 JTMS. I also have 2 needles naming Sneak Attack. Neither of us can do anything and we play draw go for about 10 turns, eventually I hardcast a Griselbrand using petals, city and lands, but in that situation a JTMS would be just as good at locking up the game.
I go back and forth on Echoing Truth. I guess the times you have it in the board and don't need it are probably good days anyhow, so it is hard to evaluate. I ran 2 ET in both of the opens I did well in last year. I do not think I ever cast one, but you do feel good having at least 1 as an out (I said in my bio in Cincinnati that my one tweak would be having one). Since we are such a good game 1 deck, you can often afford to just make them mulligan to their hate game 2. If they have Cage with Force back-up underneath our hand disruption, good on them. Those sorts of hands usually do not have the pressure to make Show and Tell too slow. JTMS was what I tried in those slots most recently. He can win a game alone, or at least buy time to hardcast a monster.Quote:
Originally Posted by ultraviolent2
As for Chain of Vapor: I am firmly in the camp that Chain of Vapor is not the answer I want. You cannot chain of vapor Ensnaring Bridge or really anything else after you play a fatty, since their copy is just insane. You cannot Chain of Vapor Chalice on 1 or 18 Goblin tokens either. Since you cannot EE a Leyline of the Void or Ensnaring Bridge very easily (Lotus Petal giving you a shot for 3 and a pipe dream for 4), I am not that interested in it for those purposes.
Hey all,
I haven't touched Reanimator in quite some time and decided it was time to shake off the old cobwebs and give it a whirl.
This is the list I currently plan on running in a 12post (U/G and mono G) heavy environment, swarm decks (elves & DnT), and 2 show and tell decks. Please let me know if there is anything that should be updated for my meta:
Creature [7]
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Tidespout Tyrant
Instant [15]
4 Brainstorm
2 Daze
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
Sorcery [20]
4 Careful Study
4 Exhume
3 Ponder
4 Reanimate
2 Show and Tell
3 Thoughtseize
Enchantment [1]
1 Animate Dead
Artifact [2]
2 Lotus Petal
Land [16]
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacomb
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
Sideboard:
1 Ashen Rider
1 Coffin Purge
1 Inkwell Levithan
2 Massacre
2 Show and Tell
3 Duress
3 Pithing Needle
2 City of Traitors
I don't like daze that much. While it sounds good in theory, too many things has to happen for it to be great:Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega87
you need to be on the play
they need to play something you care about, e.g. deathrite, counter, discard
they need to run straight into it
In other situations, it's still good, since reanimator is so fast, but if you can't combo by turn 2/3, their values drops a ton. And you will be surprised how many games go past turn 2/3 if you play the deck enough. There will be those all cantrip draws, where you're just spending the first few turns trying to get your combo together, and that point, I'd much rather have a thoughtseize to clear the way.
To sum it up, I think it's a "win more" card, in that if you have the combo early, it's great, but if you have a draw like that, you're favored to win that game anyways.
In their place, I think the 4th ponder is MUST. Post board, they are crucial, since we become this awkward 2 combo deck with both the reanimation and S&T combo. In addition, I would just add another thoughtseize for protection and a petal to speed things up. The petals are also a virtual counter for daze, makes S&T alot faster, while extra copies can be BSed and careful studied away.
In terms of matchups, I don't mind facing any deck in all of legacy except for miracles and death and taxes. Miracles is an absolutely absymal matchup, since they can actually kill or bounce everything you put into play. I've been looking through magic history trying to find a way to beat them without devoting 10 SB cards and I think I've found it:
Enter Aetherling
This is the card you want against miracles. Just leave 1 and ideally 2 blue mana open and the only way you lose is if they race it with angel tokens. it also costs 6, so post board with cities it's very possible to just hard cast it with mana up for protection. As a bonus it's decent against death and taxes, since it dodges both stp and karakas and has virtual vigilance.
I don't think it makes the match up in our favor by any means, but at least this gives us a fighting chance.
Let me know what everyone thinks! I'll be testing it out in the next few weeks.
Hey guys,
Long time source lurker here, finally decided to join in on the discussions and make some improvements to my favorite archetype of putting big fat monsters into play asap.
16th place @ SCG legacy open somerset this past weekend to an 8-2 record**. The deck is nigh unbeatable when it draws well, but a little too swingy sometimes. I also faced turn 1 deathrite shaman more times than I can count, which made the games much harder than they need to be.
First the list:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=67742
Pretty standard list, I basically took robert's list and added in some cliques in the SB, which were pretty good. I did not miss Iona at all, and in at least one game facing down a Liliana, Grave Titan saved my ass where no idea creature could've.
The decks I faced, in order:
Elves
G1: Elesh Norn turn 2 sealed the deal.
G2: opponent had turn 1 deathrite followed by thoughtseize taking my S&T, followed by ooze. Despite the god draw, I still had a chance to rip S&T and win since I had the Norn in hand. I proceed to punt like a pro by forgetting to shuffle with fetchland after I BS and die shortly after.
G3: I mull to 6 on the play to a double thoughtseize, petal, land, land, elesh norn hand. I considered thoughtseizing myself, but would basically lose if my opponent opens with a deathrite and I don't draw anything. I decide to thoughtseize my opponent and he reveals deathrite x2, green sun's zenith, 1 land and some random elves. I'm forced to use both thoughtseizes on the deathrites, using up the petal in the process. then I proceed to draw lands for the next 3 turns while getting slowly pummeled to death by random elves.
the Gate
Don't remember much about this matchup other than Grave Titan saving me from all the sac effects. Vendillion Clique was also good as a sac fodder in G2.
Food Chain!
G1: I was confused by the play of both noble hierarch and deathrite shaman, but it didn't matter, as I proceed to draw lands for 3 turns while a vendillion clique kills me in 3 swings. I assume he is some weird BUG midrange deck.
G2: I go for the show and tell combo on turn 2 with FOW backup thinking I've sealed the deal only for him to let the S&T resolve and he puts in Tidesprout Tyrant while I get Griselbrand into play. I draw 7 with Griselbrand before it gets bounced and was able to find an entomb and exhume for my own Tyrant to bounce his. But I made the fatal mistake of casting thoughtseize instead of just another entomb to do so, which puts me at 2 life. This allows my opponent to topdeck and play a deathrite, which i have to FOW and go down to 1. Then my opponent topdeck a manipulate fate, which in combination with the food chain in play, gives him 3 griffins. I can't find a way to put another Griselbrand into play and die.
U/R Delver
Don't remember much about this one other than, I got the combo plus one protection spell in both games by turn 2, and he only had 1 counterspell each game.
Sneak and Show
G1: I get to reanimate Griselbrand before he gets anything going.
G2: I side out the 2 show and tells, and some careful studies and reanimation spells and bring in the cliques and jaces, expecting a long drawn out affair. And as expected, he gets 2 cages into play and I have 2 needles on sneak attack. We play draw go for many turns, until I get to 8 mana and just hard cast griselbrand for the win.
Dredge
G1: Turn 2 reanimate Elesh norn FTW
G2: Turn 2 reanimate Elesh norn again, I'm so good at magic
Jund
G1: I keep a slow hand that gets thoughtseized, while my opponent has a turn 1 deathrite that was ready the whole time. There was only one turn where he did not have mana open. I did manage to show and tell Grisel into play at a low life, but my opponent had the liliana.
G2: I keep another slow hand, and my opponent has turn 1 deathrite again. He keeps mana open which slows him down a ton. I eventually show and tell into Grisel, draw 14 cards to find a needle and name liliana, which I believe was his only out.
G3: My opponent has turn 1 deathrite yet again, but I have show and tell and elesh norn, which wipes his board. He proceeds to cast toxic deluge, killing the norn. he get's liliana into play the turn before I get a Griselbrand into play, draw a bunch of cards and casts 2 petals and play a land. On his draw step, I clique him to see nothing, and Griselbrand gets there.
Elves
G1: Turn 2 reanimate Elesh Norn yet again
G2: Turn 4 Elesh Norn off show and tell after casting 4 or 5 cantrips in a row the turn before my opponent can kill me.
I think reanimator is favored or even in every single one of those matchups, but a couple of punts on my end against elves round 1, unfamiliarity with the food chain list in round 3, in combination with drawing very poorly in a few of those games cost me the matches.
In summary, I had a lot of fun killing people on turn 2, but there were games that were frustrating because my deck would not cooperate. This is the first big tournament I've been to in years and the first time playing reanimator in a major event, so I'm sure there's room for improvement.
It's a good choice for a big tournament, since it's a combo deck that beats all other combo decks and has fairly even matchups against all the U/x/x delver variants. The only bad matchup is miracles, which just destroys me every time. To solve this matchup, I'm going to test aetherling main or side and see how that works out.
Thanks for reading! Thoughts and feedback are welcomed!
**One of my opponents was a no show, and another got DQ'ed for attempted collusion.
I also notice the lack of a shroud creature. For me the shroud creature was always my go-to creature on Game 2-3 to any deck packing Karakas/STP. I like reanimator a lot and it's probably going to be my deck of choice in a combo heavy meta since Jund is so bad in combo. Congrats on your performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Zhong
I need to adjust my decklist due to my poor performance with it on Saturday.
I have a copy of Echoing Truth and Ratchet Bomb for the various permanent based hate brought in. I also have two copies of Massacre when TNN was making waves in the Patriot and D&T was everywhere, but now I'm not encountering opposing white as much, just BUG for days, so I might drop that to one and up the count of ET or RB to two.Quote:
Originally Posted by ultraviolent2
Also I can understand the lack of Iona, she's grown weaker every day since her printing, but the lack of Inkwell I can't accept. Never leave home without it.
I use to think Inkwell is very important as well, but there were just too many games against decks with stoneforge mystic where i would get the inkwell and they would have a batterskull and we would just stare at each other, since if i attack, I'm only trading 3 damage to their 5. Against miracles, inkwell gets terminused like everything else, that's why aetherling might be good, since it solves both of those issues, though you need to have mana to make good use of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateKing
Well mine sits in the side, and I wouldn't bring it in against Stoneforge, the main suite of creatures fights that well enough on their own. On Miracles I guess you have an edge there, but against D&T Inkwell is the all star. Also been hitting a patch of Maverick lately that is a pain, also shines there as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Zhong
How does Aetherling do against Counterbalance with Terminus floating on top? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Hank Zhong
Anybody tried Sire of Insanity in the SB? I currently like it since I play a much faster list then most people here. It seems really strong against Karakas-themed decks since you generally just don't care about it. And obviously the effect is really powerful.
Hey,
went 4:2 on Saturday at my local store. 34 players and i did 6th place, won a playset of deathrite shamans :-)
This Deck is really awesome and incredibly powerful. I lost against MUD and DnT.
Massacre is not too strong in my opinion, i will try dread of night instead. It solves many problems for a longer time than massacre does. Iona and Elesh Norn are still big enough to win then.
Short summary:
Round 1 vs UG Madness: 2:1
Round 2 vs Elves: 2:0
Round 3 vs DnT: 1:2
Round 4 vs MUD: 0:2
Round 5 vs Jund: 2:0
Round 6 vs Miracles: 2:0
I absolutely had no chance against MUD. Any strategies for this matchup?
If you are expecting MUD, I'd use that 3cc blue card that bounces all artifacts-its name is eluding me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega87
if you don't have a threat in play by the time they have top/CB assembled, just scoop. Of course, that's besides the fact that hardcasting is plan B anyways =)Quote:
Originally Posted by th3 w1z4rd
Congrats on the finish, always good to see Reanimator beat Miracles!, I'm curious how those 2 games played out and what your SB strategy was for Miracles, as I'm currently something like 0-3 against it in matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega87
Regarding MUD, the deck is inconsistent and will lose to itself often. Other times, there will be a lot of 1 threat + all mana hands, which just loses to a FOW on their only threat. Other times, they will have the all threat but no acceleration hand, which is just too slow against reanimator. I would just scrap those two games up to variance. It's also not a popular deck, so you won't face it that often at all. In general, I would play reanimator against non-blue decks all day, unless it's D&T =/.
Thanks for your congrats, i am very surprised too. Did not expect to beat miracles. But game one was very easy by any means. He lost the dice roll, so i started with USea, study, discard Iona (luckily i had no other creature). He played Tundra and Top. My turn again, and i try to exhume, he forces, me too = Iona in play, he does not find Jace in time to bounce Iona, now that he has no outs (karakas in the side... noob)
He starts game 2 with island go. I go USea, ponder, see crap only and shuffle. Draw show and tell, play petal and Go. He plays a blind counterbalance. I draw city of traitors, now i can show and tell ashen rider into play, exiling CB, he tries to force it (CB reveals a land) but thanks to petal i can just spell pierce his force. Lucky me :-D Few turns later he exiles my rider, but Griselbrand finds its way into play and he scoops after his draw (dead on board).
My sideboard was like the list I posted before, - 1 Duress - Sigarda, for + 2 Masscre. I boarded like that:
+ 2 Spell Pierce
+ 2 Duress
+ 2 Show and Tell
+ 2 City of Traitors
+ 1 Inkwell Leviathan
- 3 Daze
- 1 Griselbrand
- 1 Careful Study
- 1 Ponder
- 1 Exhume
- 1 Island
- 1 Swamp
I've seen grave titan in some lists.
What games are you siding him in ? Or is he main deck now a days ?
I'm still running
4 Grise brand
1 elesh nor
1 iyona
1 tidespout
with inkwell and ashen rider in sideboard.