[Deck] Spring Tide

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

Currently working on a Spring Tide / Solidarity hybrid, with the new spoiled Leyline of Antecipation.
Does anyone think that this could be any good? I mean, we could bring together the best of both decks in theory...

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Looks very promising. Are you planning to use Spring Tide with Reset and Leyline of Anticipation replacing Cloud of Faeries and Snap? I think you will lose some of the speed of Spring Tide but it might become strictly better than Solidarity. Not sure how consistent it would be though. I'm certainly looking forward to what you come up with.

Anyways, I came back form summer camp and found that it is quite easy to play, even for a newbie like me. :D I never fizzled, though I think I had a bit of luck on my side there. I had to go off on turn 3 twice, and succeeded, and went of on turn 4 four times. However, one of the scouts had an oversized Eldrazi deck, against which I waited till turn 5 to use a lethal Stroke of Genius. So, I'm going to sideboard a few Tormod's Crypts.

Of course, I'll have a lot more trouble against real non-aggro legacy decks, especially as at the moment I can only afford Pacts instead of Force of Will's and fetchlands (yes, Ponder was my only shuffle effect to use with Brainstorm). The only good side is that I will soon be able to replace Sleight of Hand with Preordain.

Anyways, I'll order my budget Spring Tide and if I do decently with it, I will feel better buying fetchlands and a set of Forces.

In regards to those graveyard reshufflers, I usually didn't need Crypts or Relics. You can respond by Brain Freezing again then forcing the draw with their triggers on the stack. Or you can wish for something like Ravenous trap to exile their graveyard with the reshuffle trigger on the stack so their trigger does nothing as you continue to mill them.

@MCG_Player: that is stricly harder to do in Spring Tide than with Solidarity but is an option. Depending on the card, you can sb a stifle, or only try to combo once you are sure you can Stroke ftw. The latter is the best option, because there are decks, like Aeon Bridge, running 4 Emrakuls...

@list: haven't really come up with something very good... I only figured out that the deck should not rely on Leyline. I mean, your main untap effect cannot be Reset, if you run Ideas Unbound and Merchant Scroll. I'm going to try a pretty much Spring Tide shell now, maybe with 1-2-3 Resets, and see how it turns out. Also, I'm trying 8-11 cantrips, 16-18 lands, 2-4 Ideas unbounds, 4 Merchant Scrolls, 1 Wish, 1 BF... so this may take a while... will post again by the end of the week, if it is worth it...

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Originally Posted by MGC_player

In regards to those graveyard reshufflers, I usually didn't need Crypts or Relics. You can respond by Brain Freezing again then forcing the draw with their triggers on the stack. Or you can wish for something like Ravenous trap to exile their graveyard with the reshuffle trigger on the stack so their trigger does nothing as you continue to mill them.

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Haha I thought of using two Brain Freezes just last night and then forgot all about it when I decided to SB Tormod's Crypt. :D I haven't been thinking too straight since coming back from the camp... Still, Ravenous trap looks like it could be a useful card in some situations, and good to keep in the wishboard.

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

@MCG_Player: that is stricly harder to do in Spring Tide than with Solidarity but is an option. Depending on the card, you can sb a stifle, or only try to combo once you are sure you can Stroke ftw. The latter is the best option, because there are decks, like Aeon Bridge, running 4 Emrakuls....

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When I played, I (rightly in that case at least) didn't feel I could use a lethal Stroke until at least turn 5. Any tips for a faster win?

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

@list: haven't really come up with something very good... I only figured out that the deck should not rely on Leyline. I mean, your main untap effect cannot be Reset, if you run Ideas Unbound and Merchant Scroll. I'm going to try a pretty much Spring Tide shell now, maybe with 1-2-3 Resets, and see how it turns out. Also, I'm trying 8-11 cantrips, 16-18 lands, 2-4 Ideas unbounds, 4 Merchant Scrolls, 1 Wish, 1 BF... so this may take a while... will post again by the end of the week, if it is worth it...

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Hope you can come up with something neat (though I won't be able to afford the Resets to purchase your deck in any case).

I've been trying out Recall. Works wonders in the late game.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...5&d=1278302906

SPLASH GREEN :D i was thinking about splashing for grips too

The bad thing about Autumn's Veil here is that we can't Snap after it resolves... Don't think it will work here...

While we are on the subject of possible additions to the deck, I noticed Call to Mind, but realized it is no better than Relearn, which is never used in the deck. And when I think about it, a Remand or Twincast would be easier to use.

For bounce spells on the wishboard, what are your thoughts on Wipe Away vs Cryptic Command vs Chain of Vapor vs Capsize? My thoughts are that Cryptic Command's mana cost negates its utility as a counterspell and draw spell, and that Capsize should be included to feed Stroke of Genius (or generate infinite storm count). However, is Wipe Away's split-second worth its extra mana cost over Chain of Vapor?

Capsize has been great for me. It is at least a 1 of in the wish board since with it has so many uses.

Yes I think I'm going to include a Capsize in my wishboard for sure, since with 3 High Tides, it can be used for infinite storm count, and with 4 High Tides, for infinite mana. However, what bounce cards should be used in addition to it? I have eliminated Cryptic Command, but can't decide between Wipe Away, Chain of Vapor, and Echoing Truth. Should I include one of each?

I also run Echoing Truth and Wipe Away in my board as well since each has specific uses though both can bounce.

I am thinking of building spring tide, as it seems like a fun, budget deck. Stephen Menendian had this list that I'm working off of posted in an article here: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...of_Legacy.html
I have a few questions:
1. What are the Fact or Fictions in the sideboard for? They have me stumped.
2. What's the consensus on fetchlands? Goldfishing, I never felt like I needed more shuffle effects, but I've seen a lot of lists with them.
3. Has anyone had success with a list not running Cunning Wish? They seem clunky: I feel like I'd rather have more Scrolls, Brain Freezes, and maybe some Muddle the Mixtures.

I guess I don't understand why people suddenly think this is a viable deck. Nothing has changed to make it more viable. It wasn't like no one played it because better combo decks existed; no one played it because anything with disruption laughed in its face.

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Originally Posted by Tiberius

I am thinking of building spring tide, as it seems like a fun, budget deck. Stephen Menendian had this list that I'm working off of posted in an article here: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...of_Legacy.html
I have a few questions:
1. What are the Fact or Fictions in the sideboard for? They have me stumped.
2. What's the consensus on fetchlands? Goldfishing, I never felt like I needed more shuffle effects, but I've seen a lot of lists with them.
3. Has anyone had success with a list not running Cunning Wish? They seem clunky: I feel like I'd rather have more Scrolls, Brain Freezes, and maybe some Muddle the Mixtures.

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I'm planning to work off of this list: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post465950, but I expect to replace the Remands with Preordains.

1. I don't understand the use of Flash of Insight in the Star City article, since sorcery speed gives us better draw cards (ideas unbound and meditate). I feel the same way about Fact or Fiction. I think some people try to put weaker Solidarity cards in Spring Tide.

2. The fetchlands are useful with the Brainstorms and the deck-thinning effects are pretty significant. That said, the lifeloss is a significant factor. Personally, I'd add a pack if I could afford them. :D

3. There is this deck: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32347. However, I think the Cunning Wishes add extra options (such as Wipe Away) to deal with hate, and this is invaluable. Also, you can also wish for a Vision Skeins after a lethal Brain Freeze to not give your opponent that extra upkeep to beat you.

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Originally Posted by Malakai

I guess I don't understand why people suddenly think this is a viable deck. Nothing has changed to make it more viable. It wasn't like no one played it because better combo decks existed; no one played it because anything with disruption laughed in its face.

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Actually, Mystical Tutor has been banned. This means that other combo decks are going to be slower, making combo-hate less common and aggro more common. This makes Spring Tide more competitive.

I was wondering if Preordain could find a slot in Spring Tide. When I play out for the win I always feel like I want more cheap cantrips. It's also nice for when you hit a pocket of land and you can send it away. The real question is where the heck do we fit it in, this deck is really tight as is.

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

This deck cant ignore the first 2 counterspells the opponent plays like Solidarity can. Here, if they counter High Tide, you just can't combo off. So, fo MB Trap be good, you have to have: 2 High Tides and another counter, or 1 High Tide and 2 Counters.
I actually think Pact of Negation is better here than Trap...

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Would you run pact of negation over force of will in this deck?? It's just for protect the combo and nothing else.

And i've running muddle the mixture as tutor and works well anyone has tried it??

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Originally Posted by GoldenCid

Would you run pact of negation over force of will in this deck?? It's just for protect the combo and nothing else.

And i've running muddle the mixture as tutor and works well anyone has tried it??

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- Wouldn't, because Pact can't stop things like Counterbalance or a 1st turn Lackey... FoW is there because it is an all around anweser to your problems. It's not the best to every one, but can handle all.

- Have tested it. I do not think the deck needs more tutoring, but having the built-in ability to counter spells is very nice. If you like it, use it, I guess, but only as a 2 off max...

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

- Have tested it. I do not think the deck needs more tutoring, but having the built-in ability to counter spells is very nice. If you like it, use it, I guess, but only as a 2 off max...

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I like it, but if i include it i have no room for ponder. Is this a problem??

Deck: "Perigee Tide" - Ummon Karpe

Combo
4x High Tide

Untappers
4x Cloud of Faeries
3x Snap
4x Toils of Night and Day

Draw
4x Ideas Unbound
3x Words of Wisdom

Tutor
3x Merchant Scroll

Cantrips
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
3x Preordain

Win-con
4x Brain Freeze

Protection
4x Pact of Negation

Lands
3x Scalding Tarn
3x Misty Rainforest
10x Island

http://i.hbtronix.de/chart_pie.png Display Deck Statistics

This is my attempt at a turn 2 version of Spring Tide. The goal is to have a decent chance of winning on turn 2 at the expense of consistency on turns 3 and 4. 3cc cards (Meditate and Cunning Wish) were dropped in exchange for Words of Wisdom and more Brain Freezes. Additionally, Turnabout was replaced by Toils of Night and Day. Too bad Frantic Search is banned, as it would be a much better replacement for Turnabout. Finally, with the speed that this deck is aiming at, and because of its inability to generate large card advantage using meditate, Force of Will was dropped in exchange for Pact of Negation.

I haven't proxied it yet, but looking at sample hands and trying to simulate a combo, it seems to be near impossible to combo on turn 2. Any thoughts as to wether and how this could be made to work?