If you're going to go for the infinite combo (not that it's necessarily a good idea), Brood Monitor and even Emrakul's Hatcher seem better than Rasputin Dreamweaver just because they're Eldrazi.
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If you're going to go for the infinite combo (not that it's necessarily a good idea), Brood Monitor and even Emrakul's Hatcher seem better than Rasputin Dreamweaver just because they're Eldrazi.
Interesting build from Patrunkenphat7: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/376997#paper
Tearing it up in the Leagues! I'd like to hear some commentary about that sideboard, if you see this. It's really unconventional!
Is the infinite mana combo worth pursuing over "when you cast" recursions? I see the mill combo, which is still broken by instant speed removal they can draw. It feels like that late in the game you could tutor and cavern-cast uncounterable Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger protected by karakas and stone rain people out of the game if it got to that point.
I'm currently don't have space for it, but has anybody with the white splash tested Crib Swap as removal spell for problematic creatures yet?
It dodges Chalice @1 and is an Eldrazi spell for both Temple and Eye. The token it produces shouldn't matter much.
Uhhh, I don't think this works. Eye and Temple need colourless Eldrazi spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
That was almost too good :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns
I´d like to hear your oppinion on Phyrexian Metamorph. I´ve been testing it for a while and it seems pretty nice.
Good against show and tell/reanimator.
and it can be your 5th thought knot seer or reality smasher. or you copy opponents jitte or sword. Just thinking of a second copy main and cut 1 of 2 endbringers. the other endbringer goes to my sideboard. for those who play manlands. it can be a factory too and produce mana if you want it to.
just let me hear your ideas. thanks
Monday Morning and a lot of posts here to answer - i like it, we have a good amount of stuff to discuss and a solid player base (and this deck is still "under development"! :cool:
Gratz! Nice Run, seems it was a good idea to unleash the list at MODO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Gratz! Seems the white Splash work for more Players - it will be serious for other decks, because the current ideas "how to win vs eldrazi" will not work so well against the color versions.Quote:
Originally Posted by hofzge
Yes, Displacer is really good, played him since i start brewing with Eldrazi.Quote:
Originally Posted by civet five
That should work well enough, especially with Eye of Ugin, we not need to include a "Combo Fatty" like Emrakul at UW builds. Fun Fact: The Mill-Combo is a big middle finger vs opponents that try to hide behind Ensnaring Bride, Moat (Hello Skyspawner) etc. For the UW Lists, i am not sold on the "Aggro" versions wit Mimic, Endless One etc. - i think it is a waste of space (8 slots!), because Skyspawner will only be another toy in this build which dies to something like pyroclasm (a card that should not affect Eldrazi), i remember a post here, where someone get his mimics killed by Golgari Charm (:laugh:).Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
I still think UW lists can work, but i would start with a build kind of similar like the GW Midrange Lists. Cut 2 World Breaker and 2 Conduit of Ruin and 2 Endless One and you have space for 2 Drowner of Hope and 4 Eldrazi Skyspawner. Switch Lands and Talisman to UW colors and try to find a Space for 1 Dreamweaver if you like the Combo (or use it as a side tech).
What i really like at the UW Lists is, that Skyspawner can block flyers from Delver to 20/20 Tokens and works well as an evasive Jitte carrier. Drowner also impacts the field well enough, both can also combo with Displacer. I also underestimate the Eldrazi Tokens, with Eye of Ugin you can cast Skyspawner and sac the Token for more Eldrazi AND the tokens will act as a "Anti Moon" Tool (i really like it!) and they can also open mana for Instants like Warping Wail etc.
I can see something like:
Lands: 4 Tombs, 4 Temple, 4 Cavern, 2-3 City, 2-3 Eye, 2 Karakas and special ones:0-1 Plain, 0-1 Island as a start for brewing, i cut Mishra/Waste stuff because you maybe need more colored mana. Basic Lands can be nice for Sideboard Cards or to enable Skyspawner/Drowner which lead to tokens which leads to Seer/Smasher etc.
Creatures: 4 Displacer, 4 Skyspawaner, 4 Seer, 4 Smasher, 2 Drowner and special ones: 1 Dreamweaver, 1 Metamorph (can also be 2 Dream or 2 Meta etc.)
Rest: 4 Chalice, 2 Mox, 3 Talisman, 2 Jitte, 4 Wail similar to GW, but since the build had no top end with World Breaker and can generate Mana with Skysspawner/Drowner we can talk about other configurations like 4 Mox and 1 Slot for other cards etc.
EDIT: i quickly build it here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/uw-eldrazi-brew/ (you can playtest it at your browser :cool: )
I don't like the Sword main, with his land base i would switch it with a Crucible (!) - should work well better (remember he also uses trinisphere).Quote:
Originally Posted by iostream
Side is ok, i miss some Thorns vs Burn, but my first sketch of Eldrazi also included Mindbreak Trap as an T0-1 Out if you aren't able to use Chalice. But afterall, Storm isn't such a bad matchup and Thorn can also be used for other Combos etc. Leyline is ok for colorless, it is really hard for some Graveyard-Decks to win against it. Winter Orb - while it is still nice with all the :2:Lands we can use - should only be strong vs Control - a archetype we should not fear. Against lands he has Wastelands, Endbringer, Leylines, Chalice at 1 (Crop Rotation, Gamble if you kill Loam/PFire with Grave Hate) and if you follow my advise 1 Crucible Main (and maybe 1 more at Side with our own Wastelands).
I suggested Metamorph since i play with Displacer and sometimes tested one copy of it - the biggest issue is, find the right place for this tool. I talked with Barook about it, his idea was to cut both Endless One from GW which opens space for 2 instead of 1 Metamorph Copy. I think at MODO (lots of Sneak, Reanimate etc.) this tech is ok. My problem is, that the build only runs 18 creatures, so you cut 2 of them for a card, that sometimes do nothing (empty field) and is not an eldrazi (for temple, eye etc.). Ok sometimes you can copy Mishra or Talisman, but this isn' the real deal with Metamorph :laugh:. Yes Endless One is the weakest creature at this build (i board both copies ot very often), but it is still sometimes nice as a stupid Beater which can be anything from "oops i need something on the field while my lands are blown up vs Wastelands" to "i can be bigger than your gofy" till "Deal with me or i will win this game as a finisher". For Metamorph it seems nice if you can copy Seer/Smasher (yesterday i overrun my opponent with Smasher, next Turn 2nd Smasher, next Turn Metamorph Smasher - pretty hard to beat) Overall i am still unsure about both creatures - this slots are still open for improvements or meta experiments.Quote:
Originally Posted by josch6083
My bad: I forgot the Tomb - I think you cannot play this deck without Ancient Tomb!Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
Against Big Red it mostly locks them out of winning with Emrakul, Worldspine Wurm, Wurmcoil Engine & Inferno Titan (Their ways of winning mostly involve creatures and attacking except Pyromancy).Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Against Delver variants it makes Delver less of a danger, as you can always "block" it - normally fliers are problematic and your only out is to race them. Also you can disable Tarmogoyfs as you like.
@UW Eldrazi i browsed through some cards (search for exploits like Dreamweaver), i found Rishadan Brigand to a way to annoy some opponents. With Displacer it should be able to generate some serious trouble and the "Pirate" :laugh: is a bit easier to cast and it is only a 2 card combo, which improves with Dreamweaver.
The nice thing is, that you can add "cute" stuff like this with only one or two slots and can still build the core very streamlined to smash your opponent with some tentacles.
For everyone my :u::w: list from the link above:
Land (25)
4x Adarkar Wastes
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
3x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
1x Island
1x Karakas
1x Plains
Instant (4)
4x Warping Wail
Creature (21)
4x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Eldrazi Skyspawner
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Drowner of Hope
2x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Rasputin Dreamweaver
Artifact (10)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond
2x Umezawa's Jitte
I would recommend the proven W cards for the first sideboard cards: Rest in Peace, Containment Priest
As Barook and i mentioned RiP not only covers Reanimate/Dredge, it is also usefull against Gofy, Loam (Lands/Aggro) and can do some Splashdamage vs Storm. Containment Priest is usefull enough against various matchups and also a combo with displacer, besides it "disable" the other combos from UW.
What i like from Drowner: You can cast him with all your mana and - thanks to the pair of Scions - you are still able to cast Wail if needed.
I think I like phantasmal image a little bit more than phyrexian metamorph. Ancient Tombs plus Phyrexian Mana is rather taxing, and phantasmal image gets the job done just as well. You can't displace phantasmal image, but for 1U, you have an extra Thought-Knot Seer or Reality Smasher. That frees up a lot of mana for either (a) an extra threat (b) keeping mana open for displacer or warping wail (c) have things to cast when you're getting wastelanded. Perhaps, since we're running Sol Land, Phyrexian Metamorph is still better but I like how cheap and castable phantasmal image is.
@MD.Ghost:
That list looks good
Thanks, man! We actually just recorded a podcast about my list last night, and we will post either today or tomorrow. I'll make a few points here though. For reference my SB is this:Quote:
Originally Posted by iostream
1 Dismember
3 Spatial Contortion
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Winter Orb
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Mindbreak Trap
Overall I tried to address some of the difficult matchups with the sideboard as well as have some solid tools for all the popular matchups so that you can board out your suboptimal cards against almost everything.
I perceive fast graveyard combo and Lands to be pretty difficult, and the best graveyard hate against these decks is Leyline of the Void. Against decks like Reanimator and Dredge they don't have an opportunity to interact with your hate before it gets into play or turn 1 combo when you're on the draw. I know it's a bit of a high variance card, but I also don't think it's a good gameplan to count on drawing your hate off the top with this deck. Also against Lands a single Crypt usually doesn't cut it.
Winter Orb has been awesome against Miracles and Lands. Miracles is a great matchup already, but it's also probably the most popular matchup online. I wanted to be able to board out some of the poor cards like Dismember, and Orb is a bomb if you can stick it for the majority of the game. Against Lands it helps mitigate their Maze of Ith and Punishing Fire engines so that you can aggro them out. It helps to have Revoker on Mox Diamond in play. With Eyes and all the Sol Lands we can easily break parity with this card.
I like Mindbreak Trap because it lets you combat Storm on a different axis (like Warping Wail). Storm has to board in Abrupt Decays and maybe even Chain of Vapors, and they will board out some discard to make room. I'm not really trying to "get" them with this card, as they have Probes to see it, but I have found that they often just can't win even if they know you have it. It's also great against Belcher and Oops All Spells, and while these decks are not very popular they can be difficult matchups.
The removal package is good against Delver because the way Delver generally beats you is with a disruptive aggro draw. The Spatials are great at knocking them off their turn 1 Delver gameplan. My board plan against them is to take out the Revokers and Endbringers for the removal. Against D+T I like to board out 4 Chalice and 2 Trinisphere for the 6 removal package.
I'll post our episode in the articles and format discussion when it's up on our site!
why Rasputin Dreamweaver ?Quote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
You can make an infinite mana loop with it and Displacer; then with any token spawning Eldrazi you can make infinite creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by caprino
But there is no way to find him instead of randomly draw or am I forgetting something?Quote:
Originally Posted by Krasman
Yes, and then you cast and win the gameQuote:
Originally Posted by slayjay
an example of a side?Quote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
Do not get me wrong. I absolutely love excentric combos that wins on the spot. But you have no draw or tutor for this one off rasputin. So it is just a way out if the ground is stalled (bridge, moat) and a solid back up plan, right? Is it worth to run more rasputins, or are they too hard to cast?Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
Took my testing group's Shops list to the big event Sunday. We fielded three copies, going 4-2, 3-3, and 3-3.
I'll be honest, I'm a little disappointed in the deck's performance, despite it being only my second tournament with it. As we all know, Legacy is a format that rewards experienced players more than it does broken decks. I expected at least one of us to Top 8, and one of us nearly did, but he misplayed against Lands during his win-and-in in round 5 - although his opponent ripped a savage topdeck to climb in through the window he opened.
My matchups were RUG Delver, Burn, Lands, colorless Eldrazi mirror, Burn again, and Esper Mentor.
A brief overview of the tournament for me:
- Round 1, I won game 1 on the back of an unstoppable 3/3 Endless One, then lost game 2 to Price of Progress. Yeah, in RUG Delver. He had 4 copies the in the board. He then won game 3 when I couldn't keep up with Tarmogoyfs. I didn't see him again all day so I'm pretty sure he scrubbed out immediately after beating me, because my breakers were shit all day.
- Round 2, I 2-0'd Burn. The matchup is fairly draw dependent; if you get a hand that depends on Ancient Tomb, you're going to have a bad time. However, you can lock them under Chalice and Thorn/Trinisphere and then play large creatures that they can't keep pace with.
- Round 3, I faced Dave Long on Lands. Again. I've played him in this tournament series three times out of the four times I've attended. I lose game 3 due to a misplay: I didn't leave my Wasteland up and he killed me with a Marit Lage. Our board plan also involved boarding out Metamorph since we expected them to go off end step, but they seem to play around Wasteland a lot more than any kind of removal, which makes sense. I inform my time of this for future matches.
- Round 4, I play the colorless Eldrazi mirror. His deck has Kozilek (the OG one), but I didn't see any artifact acceleration. I name Monolith with my Revokers just in case and bury him under my castable Eldrazi. He seemed unfamiliar with the format/rules, because he kept naming Thought-Knot Seer with his Revokers. Did it in all three games.
- Round 5 was Burn again, but this player was more experienced. I lose game 1 to a misplayed alpha strike (overcommitted my creatures and died to him topdecking a burn spell). I win game 2 but lose game 3 to Smash to Smithereens on my Chalices.
- The final round was against a guy playing an absolutely horrible Esper Mentor deck. He came into the round at 1-3-1 and left at 1-4-1. Not much to say here. Esper Mentor is solidly tier 4. Cavern did a lot of work here.
I finished 28th, well outside of prize range. The 4-2 player made prizes. The other 3-3 player in our group opened 0-2 after facing Lands and Shardless back-to-back. Once you're in that bracket in a tournament this small (68 players IIRC), your results are basically void because you're just going to face shitty decks/players for the rest of the day.
All in all, we seem to have angered the pairings gods. This build crushes blue decks (except apparently Shardless, although I haven't played that match yet) and I played two of them all day, and one of them beat me with janky sideboard tech. We are heavily favored against Storm and Miracles, and I don't think any of the three of us played either of those decks all day. It was a weird metagame composition, very different from what it's been recently at that store.
We are thinking of some tweaks to the deck. We're looking closely at Eldrazi Obligator and Eldrazi Displacer, and I'll probably be testing Obligator out along with Corrupted Crossroads to help guarantee I have the colored mana ready. I think the other two members of my group will be at SCG Philly this weekend, but I won't be going. I already spent all my money picking up the cards for the deck.
I htink it's still very much in the testing phase. People are just trying a one off Rasputin to see how castable he is. I have no idea how hard they are to cast yet, but I do know that you do not need to have Displacer available per se with Rasputin, because if you have Eye of Ugin you can immediately sink -7 from Rasputin in Eye and find the missing Displacer, then go off next turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by slayjay