[Primer] Eldrazi Stompy

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Originally Posted by Barook

Finished another league run. Another 5-0. :tongue: 23-2 and still going strong. 92% win rate is insane. 1897 rating - so close. :eek:

R4 vs Miracles. 2-1 (Mentors either MD or SB, can't tell)
R5 vs Legendary Miracles 2-1

Lost G2 in both matches to Blood Moon (and the downright stonecold nuts in R4 in general with double Mentor and savage topdecks). Given the increase of it in the current online meta (15% right now), I'm reconsidering my position on it regarding the sideboard. Two Wastes is probably the most reliable tech, but I'm having a hard time finding cuts

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Gratz for another 5:0 run!

As you already know, i would run with 2 Wastes - it's important, that Wastes are not the only answer, its simply one more answer with benefits (uncounterable, land, path, explorer etc.). As you see i cutted 1 World Breaker, because even if i like this buddy, one should be enough in most cases (he is still a cc7 card, which is even more important under a moon...). As i mentioned, one Wastes (<c>) is enough to stay in the game vs moon. Rely on 5 cards with cc7 (3 All is Dust, 2 Breaker) against moon was simply to slow for me, especially if 2 of them needed additional "Green" from Petals.

So if your other cards are set in stone for now i would cut 1 World Breaker and 1 Displacer. Note: I am not sure that a 4th Displayer will work good at Main with that Manabase (but you can also trim one Mishra for a 3rd Brushland or 3rd Karakas for the MODO Meta, or try one Talisman over Petal which provides "W" for more than one shot), i am more than happy with 3 Displacer at 75 cards for now - and i am still one of its follower from the start.

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Originally Posted by darkgh0st

@SB: Would you cut 1 World Breaker? Eye can tutor it up after all. Or 2 is a right number there?

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Tutoring is often too slow and not even feasable in the majority of the match-ups.

@MD.Ghost: I'll do some theorycrafting and goldfishing regarding the 4th MD Displacer and see how I like it. Changing the manabase is imho not an option as it's fairly balanced right now. I'll also look into cutting the 2nd World Breaker since it's on the list of potential cuts, but my gut feeling is telling me that I want two for consistency reasons and having more than a one-shot solution. As I mentioned before, World Breaker with only Petals shouldn't be considered a solution to Blood Moon. I'm well aware of the other benefits of Wastes as they sometimes come up, although rarely.

@Barook
Congratulations on your result, may I ask you a few question?

How do you feel running no thorn maindeck and only 2 in sideboard against combo matchups? It seems to me that Chalices and Seer with no Revokers backup nor Spheres effect, and only two Wails is way too few. How many of your 25 opponents were on combo?

I read that you are a great fan of All is Dust, how often do you come up with seven mana?

LESS important, I don't like petals very much, but I understand them. I don't have any experience with the "mono-W" list, but it seems to me that Rest in Peace and Disenchant are way too strong (and preferrable to Leylines that I particularly dislike, I don't want to mulligan aggressively nor to draw another clunky piece that remains stuck in your hand in a deck that cannot cantrip). Of course this would require a more white manabase, which you tested, and would cost you the Mishra's, which I understand is hard. But isn't it worth it to have RiP, possibly again the combo with Containment Priest, and all that white has to offer in sideboard?

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Originally Posted by talpa

@Barook
Congratulations on your result, may I ask you a few question?

How do you feel running no thorn maindeck and only 2 in sideboard against combo matchups? It seems to me that Chalices and Seer with no Revokers backup nor Spheres effect, and only two Wails is way too few. How many of your 25 opponents were on combo?

I read that you are a great fan of All is Dust, how often do you come up with seven mana?

LESS important, I don't like petals very much, but I understand them. I don't have any experience with the "mono-W" list, but it seems to me that Rest in Peace and Disenchant are way too strong (and preferrable to Leylines that I particularly dislike, I don't want to mulligan aggressively nor to draw another clunky piece that remains stuck in your hand in a deck that cannot cantrip). Of course this would require a more white manabase, which you tested, and would cost you the Mishra's, which I understand is hard. But isn't it worth it to have RiP, possibly again the combo with Containment Priest, and all that white has to offer in sideboard?

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I don't really miss them. Hell, I'm even considering cutting one from the SB.

Combo match-ups so far were:
2-1 Sneak & Show (one of my only two losses due being too greedy G2 & G3 by keeping hands without proper hate)
4-0 Storm (1x TES, 3x ANT)
1-0 Chaos Elves
2-0 Reanimator

Note that Storm is a clean 8-0 in games. Pre-board is already horribly for them and it only gets worse afterwards.

About All is Dust: As long as heavy mana disruption isn't involved, the 7 mana come up often enough.

Mana: I've played a white-heavier version before, but the mana base can't really support it without sacrifing Factory - and you do want Factory for various reasons. RiP can be too slow against stuff like Reanimator, can be countered and most notably, decayed (almost half the online meta runs Decay now, like 45+%). Disenchant effects are nice, but suffer from the mana requirement. Same goes for Containment Priest - and I love the Containment Priest combo with Displacer. Leyline has heavy drawbacks, but probably still gets the job done best. I've played so many variants before and I can't really argue with the results of the current list.

Hey Barook, I remember you used to test Grim Monoliths a while ago. It still presents an obvious solution to Blood Moon-style effects while simultaneously acting as a ramp card for all those 7-drops. What were your conclusions? Why'd you end up cutting it and is there an alternative world/metagame where you could imagine using it? Or would it fuel a different build?

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Originally Posted by Eldariel

Hey Barook, I remember you used to test Grim Monoliths a while ago. It still presents an obvious solution to Blood Moon-style effects while simultaneously acting as a ramp card for all those 7-drops. What were your conclusions? Why'd you end up cutting it and is there an alternative world/metagame where you could imagine using it? Or would it fuel a different build?

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I merely cut it for space reasons because Blood Moon was less relevant at that point (and because it is expensive on MTGO). I never really reached a conclusion on that due to lack of testing in an actual, competitive environment. It could very well go into the Wastes spot, but thing is that Miracles can spam Wear (+ Snapcaster) even under Blood Moon while they can't touch Wastes - at all. Having an out for random Veteran Explorers, Paths and From the Ashes might be fancy as well, but that would require you to know when to board in Wastes in the first place.

If somebody has the Monoliths and wants to test it as anti-BM tech, I'm very interested in the results. Fueling World Breakers and Eye still sounds nice. Question is if the mana boost is worth being attackable by artifact hate and counters compared to Wastes which don't give a single fuck what your opponent does.

Hello, I've been playing MUD for years, but have been amazed at this deck's consistency and win ratio. I tried a few builds and so far Barook's been the top contender. I am building it on paper for a big tournament about one month from now, so I was wondering if there is a way to minimize the bad matchups (especillay Lands) without compromising MD consistency.

First of all, sorry by my poor english...

What about tendo ice bridge?

We will need probably just one colored mana along the first game anyway for eldrazi displacer (multiples are redundant).
This way we'll have colored mana for other eldrazis in the side along with world breaker (vile, bearer etc).
And its easier to cast dismember without life loss and leyline of the void if it's stuck in hand with 2-3 tendo + 3-4 petal (ok, it's a borderline situation). And it's possible to add 1 or 2 other colored spells if we are going that way (1 toxic deluge in side for tech?)
And of course, no life loss from pain lands.

All marginal gains, but i think that's a valid test.

I'm thinking in something like:

LANDS – 24
4 Ancient tomb
4 Eldrazi temple
3 Eye of ugin
2 city of traitors
4 Cavern of souls
3 Tendo ice bridge
2 Mishra's factory
1 Karakas
1 Flex - urborg, karakas, wasteland or factory

CRIATURAS – 23
4 Mimic
4 Matter
4 Vidente
4 Reality
4 Endless one
3 Displacer

OUTROS – 13
4 Chalice
4 Petal
2 Jitte
2 Wail
1 Dismember (yes... not ideal, but ok)


SIDE – 15
4 Leyline
3 All is dust
2 Thorn of amethyst
2 Wastes (debatable, could be anything vs moon/b2b/wastelock)
2 World breaker
1 Toxic deluge
1 Flex - Faerie macabre (i like extra hate) or another dismember, deluge or wail

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Originally Posted by Barook

If somebody has the Monoliths and wants to test it as anti-BM tech, I'm very interested in the results. Fueling World Breakers and Eye still sounds nice. Question is if the mana boost is worth being attackable by artifact hate and counters compared to Wastes which don't give a single fuck what your opponent does.

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I've actually been testing Grim Monolith, as I play a colorless version and Guides didn't impress me.

4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Lodestone Golem
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Warping Wail
3 Grim Monolith

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldraz Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
3 Eye of Ugin
3 City of Traitors
2 Urborg
1 Karakas

2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Winter Orb
2 Lodestone Golem
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Pithing Needle
2 Endbringer
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Results have been decent for me so far, but I've only been trying it out for about 2 weeks. The deck is basically per-boarded against Blood Moon decks, allows for more constant activations of Eye of Ugin, turn 2 Endbringer against non-Plow decks, allows your Endless Ones to get ridiculously big and allows for an Ulamog in the sideboard to be reasonable.

@1mpulse: How problematic have been counters/artifact destruction under Blood Moon?

@Silverflame: Glad to hear you like it. Displacer is your best bet vs Lands. It can prevent Marit Lage kills as long as it's on the board while Karakas is weak to Wasteland and Port. The match is still highly problematic due Glacial Chasm, Maze of Ith, Port and Wasteland (locks), though. I don't think there are good ways to improve the match-up without compromising the MD. It's a rare match-up, so hoping to dodge it or getting lucky with Displacer or a fast Chalice @1/@2 is certainly a plan, although not the best one.

@Grim Monolith: I was running 4 in the colorless version. It definitely felt too much, as the highest end of the curve is 7 (eye activation). It did save me two games, once gainst SnT and once against Miracles against Blood Moon. Both players kept hands without counterspells thinking that BM would be game for them. I'd recommend 2 MD, 1 SB, but 3 MD shouldn't be bad, and that is for the colorless version. I don't have the white list completed ATM, so I can't test that, but I can imagine the white list has a very different feel to it and would be akward with Grim Monoliths.

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Originally Posted by Barook

@1mpulse: How problematic have been counters/artifact destruction under Blood Moon?

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Haven't had a problem particularly with either yet at this point, but I haven't tested the Miracles matchup a ton yet (since it seems rather favorable overall it wasn't at the top of my list). Miracles should be boarding out Counterbalance, so that doesn't leave them with a ton of actual counters. The one time time a Miracles player did resolve a Blood Moon on me, it was already too late for him (had a turn 1 Thorn).

For dedicated Blood Moon decks, I've tested a bit against Moggcatcher Stompy, but Tuk-Tuk was always too slow, and those style decks can't beat a Smasher or Endbringer.

I definitely agree that you should probably only look at Monolith for the colorless version though.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Which leaves the potential cuts at World Breaker, Thorn & Displacer. I'm considering moving the 4th Displacer to the main in the spot of a Matter Reshaper and cutting a Thorn. I really like World Breaker and want to have more than one out against problematic artifacts/permanents. Thorn has been "okay" for me at best and the decks were we would bring it in are positive in general anyway, especially Storm. But then again, I bring Thorn in against roughly ~21% of the meta vs 15+% (and probably rising) Blood Moons. I'd like to hear feedback regarding 4 Displacers in the main with the current manabase from the people who run a 4 Displacer/3 Matter Reshaper split. Looking at my previous mana math, 11 vs 12 sources are roughly 3% in the early turns, so I might be overreacting in that regard.

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I'd say drop the Displacer. Displacer shares some overlap with the Karakas in the sideboard as being good vs reanimator and show n tell, but much slower. In place of it, I have been running a single Crucible of Worlds. The most painful part of playing eldrazi is getting mana locked by wastelands early or having to use city of traitors in a bad spot. Crucible coming in vs delvers like grixis or even KOTR decks that target our mana base has been incredible and far more useful that most of the other cards in the sideboard.


Anyway Barook quick question for the eldrazi master. How do you go about playing the shardless bug matchup besides trying to overwhelm them early? Do you care at all about their deathrite or do you save the dismembers for strixes and the tarmogofys for tempo?

@Barook

First, thanks for all of the input you have provided in this thread. It is appreciated.

Second, what are your thoughts about running horizon canopy in the Brushlands slot or do you think the lack of painless/colorless mana would hurt too much?

Again, thank you for providing so much. You have convinced me to try out the Wg list.

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Originally Posted by cab0747

@Barook

Second, what are your thoughts about running horizon canopy in the Brushlands slot or do you think the lack of painless/colorless mana would hurt too much?.

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The Brushlands are in there because they make colorless and occasionally white... and rarely green. If not for the colorless part you may as well run Savannah. With that in mind, Canopy isn't really much of an option since it can't cast most of the creatures in the deck and honestly I believe this deck's mana is its weakest point.

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Originally Posted by maraxusofkelds

I'd say drop the Displacer. Displacer shares some overlap with the Karakas in the sideboard as being good vs reanimator and show n tell, but much slower. In place of it, I have been running a single Crucible of Worlds. The most painful part of playing eldrazi is getting mana locked by wastelands early or having to use city of traitors in a bad spot. Crucible coming in vs delvers like grixis or even KOTR decks that target our mana base has been incredible and far more useful that most of the other cards in the sideboard.

Anyway Barook quick question for the eldrazi master. How do you go about playing the shardless bug matchup besides trying to overwhelm them early? Do you care at all about their deathrite or do you save the dismembers for strixes and the tarmogofys for tempo?

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Displacer and Karakas have nothing in common aside from the :w: mana symbol & disabling legends. Less than 4 Displacers in the 75 is not an option due to their massive impact in many matches. Cutting your strongest cards just "because reasons" is a very bad approach. You want to draw it and since we lack library manipulation, you need to run enough copies to ensure to draw the card when you need it. Some logic behind 3x All is Dust.

Wastelands hurt, but I don't see a point when you can barely utilize CoW with your own strategy. If the deck ran a full playset of Wastelands and Factories, it would be debatable. But siding it in, hoping your opponent wastes your lands or that you draw double City, sounds like the worst plan ever.

As for the Shardless match-up, that's something I can't clearly answer as it depends on too many factors:
- Are you on the play or the draw?
- How many T1 drops do you have?
- Can you T2 TKS?
- Is your removal Wail or Dismember?
- Can you put Leyline into play?
etc.

In the end, it boils down if I can afford to let a DRS do its thing or if a Strix hinders my plan harder. If you hit DRS, they could play Strix next turn. If you wait for Strix, it's possible they don't have it. Either decision could turn out wrong. At best, it's educated guesswork.

@cab0747: Canopy can't provide C and always pings you (which is highly relevant & painful). Thus, it's not a viable option.

We need <C> more often than not, so canopy (and similar lands) just don't worth it.
I think we have 1 or 2 land slots that dont produce <C>, and these slots are for karakas and/or urborg.

I had really good results with tendo ice bridge. Only in one match i would need an extra colored mana from it, in all other matches when needed there was always another source in mid game or before.

I tried talisman as well... It doesnt work. Maybe in the 2x wastes slots in the sideboard? That way we would fix the deck against blood moon, b2b and mana denial, and gain an extra colored mana source.

4-0 tonight, sort of . Round one bye. Played painter stone, eldrazi, and tes. Pretty easy night.

Hi everyone!

I've been working on building Eldrazi for a couple of weeks now, and I've been lurking on this thread looking to learn the ins and outs. I finally solidified my 75 last night, so I thought it was time to get feedback. I also have a few questions about the archetype.

First, here's what I'm starting with:

4x Eldrazi Mimic
4x Endless One
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
3x Eldrazi Displacer
2x Elvish Spirit Guide
1x Endbringer

4x Chalice of the Void
2x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Dismember
2x Warping Wail

4x Ancient Tomb
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x City of Traitors
3x Cavern of Souls
3x Eye of Ugin
3x Corrupted Crossroads
3x Mishra's Factory
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard:
3x Grim Monolith
2x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Worldbreaker
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Dismember
3x All is Dust

As you can see, I landed on the WG splash. I understand Displacer does a lot of work to shore up tough match-ups like BUG and Sneak-Show. I know I'm missing Karakas and Jitte. Unfortunately, I don't have the capital for Karakas at the moment. Jitte I will be working on getting, the card is far too powerful to exclude - I am not expecting a mirror match at my local meta, so I should be able to work around that for the time being. I'm hoping to see reprints of both those cards in Eternal Masters, but we'll have to wait and see about that.

- I'm a little ambivalent about Urborg. I'm seeing chatter that this card tends to help our opponents. Should I consider cutting this card for another Corrupted Crossroads?
- Speaking of Corrupted Crossroads, is there any consensus on whether this or Brushlands works better in this deck?
- I wanted to run a full playset of Thorn in the main - I feel like that would punish a lot of decks in Legacy, but once I decided to include Eldrazi Displacer, I had to cut 2x Thorns to the sideboard. Should I even be running 4x Thorns in the 75? Cutting the 2x Thorns out of the board would open up slots for something like Phyrexian Revoker, or Pithing Needle.

Any feedback you guys could offer would be much appreciated! Thanks!

@Drake: no consensus on the Corrupted Crossroads. I use them to hide the color and possibly play other colored Eldrazi. Use Brushland if you want other Green and White spells.

4 Thorns is punishing to us as well. All I can say is that aggro decks need to pressure. Casting Thorn isn't pressure but may slow down opponents long enough for you to pressure them. Casting the 2nd Thorn for the most part, is a liability to us because it robs a turn from us. Casting multiple Thorns does not guarantee a lock either. You also have to look at how relevant Thorn is late game (bad topdeck) and in your meta (probably just the 3rd in SB, depends)