But will the card you tutor for resolve through counterbalance? In a deck where 3 cc is the top of the curve?
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But will the card you tutor for resolve through counterbalance? In a deck where 3 cc is the top of the curve?
Why would it be run over Grim Tutor? (Which I presume you aren't playing.)
Tutor, for the cost of 3 life, can be useful off of Wasteland or Dark Ritual, and doesn't reveal what you search for, and I wouldn't run Grim Tutor even if I could afford the playset.
Because BtQ will resolve through CounterTop, Grim will not. And it's $149 cheaper.
The come-out-of-nowhere factor is really its big strength :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Misobizo
Whether or not BtQ will resolve through counterbalance is a moot point since whatever spell you get will 90% of the time be countered by that stupid enchantment. Also pox+smallpox is dissynergy with BtQ's land requirement.
On that note, tutors suck in Pox because they use up a turn that should have been spent casting disruption/win conditions.
QFT.Quote:
Originally Posted by eternaldarkness
Which is why Grim Tutor isn't run. Topdeck mode should usually be better for you than the opponent anyway, due to you having ravaged their lands.Quote:
On that note, tutors suck in Pox because they use up a turn that should have been spent casting disruption/win conditions.
I have recently been toying with the idea of using more than 4 manlands courtesy of mutavault to increase the threat density of the deck. Maybe around 6-8 manlands? I don't know how this will work out though what with wasteland already in the deck...but it could be fruitful especially with Crucible helping out.
Considering that Pox has a CCC requirement, Smallpox, Sinkhole, Hymn, Stalker, Spirit and Vindicate (if you're in White) all have CC requirements, I'm tentative about running more than 3 Factories, even with Urborg in there.
With 4 wastelands, 6 manlands make just a bit less than half your lands not making B. With 8 manlands, a full half + aren't making B. This seems far too risky to me.
Is there any use for Culling Scales?
It's worse than Powder Keg in almost all regards, but it can nab enchantments (i.e. counterbalance.) It also works with the attrition factor of the deck; killing off a mox/BoP/Jitte for free every turn is never a bad thing. It can't be Pithing Needled either.
Unfortunately, it's pretty easy for your opponent to work around and you'll have to sac it to itself when all the targets dry up. You could keep it in play with a recurring Nether Spirit, but I'd rather be swinging at that point.
Anyways, I thought it looked interesting.
Hmm... I'm not a fan of Crucible of Worlds, but this is alot more interesting to me. Not sure where there's room to cut, though. What would *you* cut?Quote:
Originally Posted by Poxrocks
I have to say, I'm not sure you guys realize just how insanely good Ghostly Prison and Vindicate are in this deck.
If you have the means (can afford the cards), I highly recommend building...
// Lands
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
3 Swamp
3 Mishra's Factory
// Threats
4 Tombstalker
// Disruption
3 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Sinkhole
4 Vindicate
4 Pox
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Rancid Earth
I just pitched two Funeral Charms and an Innocent Blood in my build, I'll be testing it out this weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by mujadaddy
For your SnowPox build I'd replace the two Powder Kegs and a Ritual to see how it works out.
If I had the money, I would be playing/fooling around with VakaPox.Quote:
I have to say, I'm not sure you guys realize just how insanely good Ghostly Prison and Vindicate are in this deck.
If you have the means (can afford the cards), I highly recommend building...
Anyways, there is nothing better than crushing a $500 dollar [RandomDeckWithDuals'n'Goyfs] with my ~$50 dollar Pox deck (no sinkholes for me /sadness).
That makes sense then.
Don't worry about not having Sinkholes, Wastelands, Thoughtseize, and Vindicate. All that means is that you need to shift the deck's focus away from land destruction to creature kill.
Yeah, that's a bummer, as LD is an awesome strategy, but it's not always perfect. With the decline of goblins and the rise of aggro control, Pox is better than ever imo.
If built right, Pox is one of the very best budget decks in legacy.
I guess it's best to develop the optimal budget pox list especially now that Infest is no longer insanely good like it was when goblins was everywhere.
Pauper (Crazy Cheap) Pox
20 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Mishra’s Factory
4 Innocent Blood
4 Diabolic Edict
2 Smother
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
4 Culling Scales
4 Tombstalker
Edited:
-4 Dark Ritual
+2 Swamp
+2 Smother
I think the above list would do pretty well, though I really haven't tested it at all.
I'm wondering if the list should run Nether Spirit, or perhaps, Phyrexian Totem or Chimeric Idol as a two of.
I'm curious how well Culling Scales would work, which is the reason I included it. Without a white splash for Vindicate, it seems to be the only answer this deck has to Counterbalance.
The deck might be better off with Smother or Powder Keg. I'm also unsure if Cabal Pit has any use at all.
I actually have no idea what to run in the deck or if the above cards are the optimal choices.
If some monoblack pox player could test out the build above and let me know what you think, that would be awesome.
This is what I'll be testing this Sunday, give or take a few cards.
2 Cabal Pit
21 Swamp
4 Pox
4 Smallpox
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
4 Diabolic Edict
4 Culling Scales
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Chimeric Idol
3 Nether Spirit
I think Culling Scales will turn out to be too slow. You can't play it without targets on the board and you have to wait an entire turn before it starts killin' stuff. Then again, if you can get it going, it pretty much shuts your opponent down.
How can you maindeck 3 Crucible and yet refuse to run atleast Mishra's Factory!!
You should either run 4 Factory + Crucible or you should run Chimeric Idol. Running Crucible without factory just doesn't make sense.
Why aren't you running the single best creature Pox has gotten ever, Tombstalker?
My suggestions...
-1 Swamp
-3 Chimeric Idol
+4 Mishra's Factory
-3 Nether Spirit
-1 Culling Scales
+4 Tombstalker
Other than that, the list looks good.
I'll be maindecking Factories, Tombstalkers, and maybe Tombs of Yawgmoth in 5-7 business days. I know what you're sayin', I just gotta work with what I got.
Even without Factories, Crucible lets you discard/sacrifice lands to Pox/Smallpox with impunity. It's not bad without manlands, just not as good. I haven't ever regretted drawing one at least.
sup clark,Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
long time since i have been around here. there is a very strong version of pox running that is monoblack that runs death cloud and get this peat bog!! pox is great and all but if you ever get 5-6 mana out or 4 lands you don't want to pox. you want to death cloud in that situation.
anyhow just wanted to throw it out there since i have seen a few legacy tourneys being won with pox and deathcloud.
Death Cloud???Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Deck
Pox never needs to get to 5/6 mana, and even if you do you're only getting rid of 1/2 stuff instead of 1/3, which is not worth the extra 3 mana investment at all.
And Peat Bog is god awful. You're destroying enough of your own lands as it is, 1 mana acceleration is not worth that in this deck.
hey i thought the same thing until i saw pox win a local 20 man legacy tourney. everyone apparently was playing combo, stax, thres, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by YuanTi
good thing it was dodging burn
Pox can win, sure. With Death Cloud and self destructing lands, thats not a traditional pox deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Deck
Then again, I'm sure most Pox decks have an easy Top8 with so many The Cure decks in there.