[Deck] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

I enjoyed playing the deck @ the SoCal winterfest tourney (even though I didn't own the 3rd trop or 4th tundra).

I'm still not convinced the list needs vial as it seemed like a win more card whenever I cast it in testing as opposed to something that clutched a match for me or anything. The counter/top combo is strong as all getout but having it in the deck changes the tempo and playstyle of the deck pretty drastically imo. Anyway if anyone has any advice for my list (I'm planing on keeping this one for a good while now that I've sold off the last remnants of iggy) other than acquiring the last duals (yes coast sucks...I know) or placing meddling mage in the sb over grunt (he was in the sb all the way until about 1/2hr before the tourney when I realized thresh and dredge were more common than combo).

Also what if any game do we have against reanimator? His spells and threats were much quicker and prevalent than I expected (I'll also fully admit to having very little practice w/ or against that deck).

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Originally Posted by wh33lz

I enjoyed playing the deck @ the SoCal winterfest tourney (even though I didn't own the 3rd trop or 4th tundra).

I'm still not convinced the list needs vial as it seemed like a win more card whenever I cast it in testing as opposed to something that clutched a match for me or anything. The counter/top combo is strong as all getout but having it in the deck changes the tempo and playstyle of the deck pretty drastically imo. Anyway if anyone has any advice for my list (I'm planing on keeping this one for a good while now that I've sold off the last remnants of iggy) other than acquiring the last duals (yes coast sucks...I know) or placing meddling mage in the sb over grunt (he was in the sb all the way until about 1/2hr before the tourney when I realized thresh and dredge were more common than combo).

Also what if any game do we have against reanimator? His spells and threats were much quicker and prevalent than I expected (I'll also fully admit to having very little practice w/ or against that deck).

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Vial is not absolutely necessary but it is a very very good card that helps you out in matchups that feature heavy countermagic, counterbalance+top, etc. that have been on the rise recently and/or seen a resurgence (think Thresh and Landstill). Back when the DtB was Goblins the Vial was a waste of space. The card is a definite win more in that matchup as your slivers do all the work defending and attacking for you and they could all be dropped off of 1-2 basics. If you dont feel you need vial then dont sweat it. The real strength in the deck is the 19 slivers, anyway.

Not sure about that reanimator matchup. That one match you played is probably one more than we have under our belts (havent tested it) so your guess is as good as ours at this point. Purhaps something like Chain of Vapor/Echoing Truth would do the trick.

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Originally Posted by wh33lz

I enjoyed playing the deck @ the SoCal winterfest tourney (even though I didn't own the 3rd trop or 4th tundra).

I'm still not convinced the list needs vial as it seemed like a win more card whenever I cast it in testing as opposed to something that clutched a match for me or anything. The counter/top combo is strong as all getout but having it in the deck changes the tempo and playstyle of the deck pretty drastically imo. Anyway if anyone has any advice for my list (I'm planing on keeping this one for a good while now that I've sold off the last remnants of iggy) other than acquiring the last duals (yes coast sucks...I know) or placing meddling mage in the sb over grunt (he was in the sb all the way until about 1/2hr before the tourney when I realized thresh and dredge were more common than combo).

Also what if any game do we have against reanimator? His spells and threats were much quicker and prevalent than I expected (I'll also fully admit to having very little practice w/ or against that deck).

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I can kind of see your point, however, in my experience the vial comes down on turn 1 and does 3 things for you...
1) Gets around countermagic - this should be fairly obvious
2) Smooths your mana out - You only play 3 Tropical Islands and only 17 total, hitting a vial means you can be less concerned with getting color or mana screwed.
3) Speeds up the clock - Against just about anything more clock is good. You set vial at 2 and start putting down creatures faster. This is sort of hand dependant, but it still happens frequently. Example ...

Turn 1 - Vial
Turn 2 - Vial @ 1, Cast Sinew Sliver, Vial in Plated Sliver
Turn 3 - Vial @ 2, Cast Muscle Sliver, Vial in Crystalline Sliver, Attack for 6
Turn 4 - Vial @ 3, Vial in Winged Sliver, Attack for 13 (probably game over).

There are even faster draws than this, this is only an example.

.

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Originally Posted by Volt

Aether Vial is here to stay. If you're not playing it, you're playing a suboptimal list. Let's move on, people. No wonder this thread doesn't get taken seriously.

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I see your point, I've liked the vial from step one. However, to just say its always going to be a suboptimal list is not really a viable argument. I'm not asking you to restate your arguments (there are plenty FOR vial through out the thread). However, if someone wants to challenge that a deck should or should not run a card thats viable. Everyone plays in a different metagame, also, the other decks change in the formats and sometimes you have to adapt to stay alive. Lastly, I'd assume that people make slight changes to all of these decks on here anyways from time to time based on their play style, preference, metagame, collection, etc.

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Originally Posted by Volt

Aether Vial is here to stay. If you're not playing it, you're playing a suboptimal list. Let's move on, people. No wonder this thread doesn't get taken seriously.

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I completely agree Vial alow you to be ridiculous with pretty much any of your sliver (especially good with hibernation and crystalline sliver). Making your slivers uncounterable and castable for free at instant speed makes me wonder why one would not play it....It does not dilute the deck at all, in fact it is what makes this deck what it is and potentially better then Thresh. The vial needs to be played with skills (reading the tempo and anticipating wheter to extend or not and anticipating what your oponent's next move is going to be) to be completely efficient.

I feel that what dillutes the deck too much is the counter top engine, although I have not tested it...I can't not think that it feels like a suboptimal built of Thresh or fish, I like the previous 4 color list (for Hibernation and duress/seize), as I feel the build is close to optimal with a decent amount of slivers. I just feel that 14 slivers is not enough to have decent powered creatures into play... even with 8 cantrip plus the top...
On that note I would like to ask Volt about is testing with the counter top list, still playing it, liking it???

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Originally Posted by Volt

Aether Vial is here to stay. If you're not playing it, you're playing a suboptimal list. Let's move on, people. No wonder this thread doesn't get taken seriously.

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YOU of all people should understand the hesitation to add Aether Vial. It took me months to convince you to play Aether Vial and some other months more convincing you to keep it. Not really criticizing your stance on Vial just pointing out that you have some egg on your face.:laugh:

.

Ok.

Here is my list for 3 color sliver:

Spells
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Brainstorm
2x Top
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
2x Stifle

Artifact
4x Aether Vial

Creatures
4x Muscle Sliver
4x Sinew Sliver
4x Crystalline Sliver
4x Plated Sliver
3x Winged Sliver

Lands
2x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
2x Windswept Heath
4x Tundra
3x Tropical Island
1x Island
1x Plains

Side
1x Top
3x Counterbalance
3x Harmonic Sliver
4x Pithing Needle
4x Tormod's Crypt

Its got all 19 slivers and 4 vials. The counterbalance engine and 4 needles come out of the side. The 2 maindeck Stifles are questionable and they may come out for 2x Counterspell or another top and a land if they dont pull their weight.

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Originally Posted by Volt

CounterTop: Features 14-15 creatures, 3-4 Counterbalance and 3 Sensei's Divining Top. This version has the best matchup against Thresh, Fish, Burn/Sligh and most combo decks.

Mana Disruption: Features 14-15 creatures, 3-4 Wasteland and 3-4 Stifle. This version has the best matchup against Landstill and Control decks that rely heavily on non-basic lands.

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Is a transformational sideboard a reasonable thing to consider (Countertop in the main with Waste/Stifle in the side)? This is similar to what sockmonkey did, but in reverse. I'm kind of hoping to do something similar, but with Hibernation Slivers in place of Plateds/Muscles. Black adds so much power to the side!

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Originally Posted by kirbysdl

Is a transformational sideboard a reasonable thing to consider (Countertop in the main with Waste/Stifle in the side)? This is similar to what sockmonkey did, but in reverse. I'm kind of hoping to do something similar, but with Hibernation Slivers in place of Plateds/Muscles. Black adds so much power to the side!

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Considered it but havent tried it. Seems interesting at least.

I actually think that the normal UGW list with Vial, Wasteland, and Stifle could be really interesting. It just seems incredibly synergistic. You can not care about the tempo setbacks of wasteland because you have vial, you can keep your mana open to stifle stuff because... you have vial. Finally, the weaknesses of the 3 color lists were against mass removal. The thing is that wasteland can keep your opponent off of the mana needed to cast an EE at 2 (rare, I know) or more likely casting a deed in 4c landstill, and of course you can also stifle both of those effects. Oh, and and Stifle / Wasteland package also makes daze much better. Seems strong to me all in all. Here is the list I would start with:

Creatures
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
3 Plated Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
3 Winged Sliver

Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares

Artifacts
4 Aether Vial

Lands
3 Flooded Strand
1 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland

I goldfished a few hands and it seems pretty strong.

Kronicler

That's basically what david_ir1 used to win the spanish legacy championships (Waste + Stifle). Seemed to work out well for him ;)

As you all have already said, Stifle's second ability to counter EE, Powder Keg and Pernicious devastating effects is something that makes it much more interesting as a 4-of than just LD, and of course is always useful against goblins, so I really like that list.

I've been tinkering the mana base to something like this:

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland

Plus I've been thinking what to remove to add the 4th stifle. Maybe a Plated sliver? Beside that I'm pretty sure 3 Meddling mages are enough in the sideboard, this allows to play 3 Spell snare, improving the threshold matchup.

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I saw this on the Worlds Coverage, and I thought it would make my fellow sliver fans smile:

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Originally Posted by Legacy Metagame Breakdown

Threshold: 76
Goblins: 34
Cephalid Breakfast: 26
Landstill: 24
...
Counter Goyf: 5
Black-Blue-Green: 5
Slivers / Meathooks: 3
Black Splash Green: 3
Aluren: 3
Monoblack Aggro: 2
...

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So I think the name stuck.

Link for those who want it.

Best part? We weren't in the 'Other' category.

Yeah, but WTF is "Sea" Stompy? :rolleyes:

I know these manabases seem horrible, but I play 3c Thresh with only 14 color sources and we have vial here. I duno, I'm gona test it and I'll let you know what I find.

Kronicler