[Deck] Ichorid

I'll picking up this deck soon, been goldfishing this a lot in mws lately becoming very impressed with this bizzare deck. This is my list:

// Lands
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Cephalid Coliseum

// Creatures
4 Putrid Imp
1 Cephalid Sage
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll

// Spells
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Deep Analysis
3 Dread Return
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Breakthrough
4 Bridge from Below

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
+ some more, haven't chosen yet.

Pretty standard I know. I would like to include 2-3 copies of Gamble, however I have no idea how to fit them in. I would like to keep the rainbow manabase for a couple of reasons, one being the flexibility of SB and the soon the come MD gamble, another being I don't own a set of Underground Seas. On another note I would like to keep the Cabal Therapies at 4 if possible.

So heres the questions:

#1 How to fit 2-3 Gamble?

#2 What to put in the SB?

#3 Don't know if im the only one, but more often than I would like I get stuck on 1 mana, leaving me unable to flashback Deep Analysis, playing Breakthrough for more than X=0 and hard casting Golgari Thug in a pinch. Should there be some number of Lotus Petals in there?

#4 How is the matchups for this deck? I've heard the deck has a nice Threshold matchup (which is important for me, since my meta consist a lot by Threshold) and are quite good at combating other Agro decks and to some extent control decks.

#5 Any secret tech to share? =)

Q: I have a Bridge from Below in my graveyard, and my opponent has a Yixlid Jailer in play [what happens, when i kill the Jailer] (...).

A: The Bridge from Below ability will not trigger. Bridge from Below has two leaves-play triggered abilities (How leaves-play abilities work is covered in section 410.10d). Whenever an event occurs in Magic, the game will look at the game state just prior to that event to see if any leaves-play triggered abilities triggered. This means that you check to see if the Bridge from Below's abilities triggered just before the Yixlid Jailer went to the graveyard. At that time Bridge from Below did not have any abilities, so there was nothing to trigger.

@Mordenkain: -1 Putrid Imp -1 Golgari Thug +2 Gamble is what my list looks like compared to yours.


p.s.: I love Needle... best answer to Crypt.

You know, Putrid Imp is a Giant, I would not run less then 3.

My config is: -1 thug, -1 Deep Analysis, -1 Land (11 land has did absolutely fine for me, no complaints) +3 Gamble.

Hi, first of all, sorry if my English isn't all that great, it's not my native language.

I played this deck for the best time of the last 4 months.
I was in content for Top 8 at the German Legacy Championship until I scrubbed out the very last round against Landstill (which was quite embarrassing).
Last saturday I took the deck to one of the bigger monthly Legacy tournaments in Iserlohn and went undefeated 7/0/0 smashing:

1. Baseruption 2:1
2. B/U/G Control 2:0
3. Fearie Stompy 2:1
4. B/G Loam Control 2:1 (first game he starts with his maindeck Leyline...)
5. Cephalid Breakfast 2:0
6. U/W Landstill 2:0
7. Y&Y Aggro 2:1

For the references, this is the list I ran in Iserlohn:

4x City of Brass
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Cephalide Coliseum

4x Ichorid
4x Narcomoeba
4x Putrid Imp
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Stinkweed Imp
3x Golgari Thug
1x Flame-Kin Zealot
1x Cephalide Sage

4x Breaktgrough
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Deep Analysis
2x Gamble
2x Dread Returns

4x Bridge from Below
4x LED

SB:
4x Leyline
4x Chain
4x Needle
2x Ray of Revelation
1x Ancient Grudge

So Ichorid was obviopusly the right choice for these Matchups.

The thing I wondered about was, just how necessary do you think the "combo" part of this deck (in my case 2x Dread Return, the Sage and the Zealot) is?
These four cards were the first to be boarded out every single round. I understand, that it may be quite useful against fast combo (TES, Belcher and so on) to win on the spot, but even in these MU you're probably only winning if you manage to dredge away most of your library and by that time you should be able to rape their hand with therapies, making a fair amount of zombies in the process and killing next turn.
So the question is, whether there are more useful cards for those slots.
What do you guys think on that topic?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spirit of the wretch

Hi, first of all, sorry if my English isn't all that great, it's not my native language.

---

Welcome to the Source!

@spirit of the wretch:
I also played in Iserlohn wit Ichorid, went 4-3... Here is the list:

// Lands
4 [OD] Cephalid Coliseum
4 [WL] Gemstone Mine
4 [AN] City of Brass

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Narcomoeba
4 [TO] Ichorid
4 [RAV] Golgari Grave-Troll
4 [RAV] Stinkweed Imp
3 [RAV] Golgari Thug
1 [RAV] Flame-Kin Zealot
2 [TO] Cephalid Sage
4 [TO] Putrid Imp

// Spells
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [FUT] Bridge from Below
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
3 [TSP] Dread Return
4 [TO] Breakthrough
3 [TO] Deep Analysis

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 [JU] Ray of Revelation
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 [TSP] Ancient Grudge


This were the decks I played against:
CounterSliver (2:1)
Rock (2:0)
Zoo (2:0)
Cephalid Breakfast (0:2)
Loam Pox (Leyline in the Main ~~) (2:1)
Pikula without LD (0:2) (in the 2. game I dredged about 50% in my first turn, then he plays Crypt an removed it all...)
Mirror (1:2)

I think I saw you, spirit :). I always was on the higher tables :).

€:// I haven't played Gamble, it was an newer version of the deck...

Funny, I also played Ichorid in Iserlohn, and went 4-3. I lost to the Loam Pox guy with maindeck Leyline 1-2, though. :)

Unfortunatelly, I wasn't very familiar with the deck since I had just picked it up a few days ago. Had I had more experience, I could have easily gone 5-2 or 6-1, I think. The meta was just right for Ichorid, many Aggro Control decks and some Control and Combo. There were quite a few Ichorid decks at the top tables. Congratulations to you, spirit of the wretch!

My maindeck was a mixture between you two: 2 Gamble, but I only run 3 Putrid Imp and 1 Cephalid Sage. I too found the Dread Return/Sage/Zealot combo quite underwhelming, as well (maybe because I played against aggro Control mainly), but I'm not sure if it might be better to replace those 5 slots in the maindeck with something else.

I personally don't like Cephalid Sage, so I cut down to the bare minimum for Dread Return - 2 Dreads and 1 Flame-Kin Zealot. However, I do acknowledge that Cephalid Sage is completely ridiculous in the right scenario, and it takes a good start and turns it into a lethal start. It does nothing to change a bad start into a good start, however. The trick to Ichorid is finding the right balance. (Translation: I reserve the right to re-include the Sage at a later date without sounding like an idiot.)

I think Dread Return is too versatile to cut. I've had several games where the FKZ combo finished someone off before they could recover, and also where Dread Return got me enough zombies to Survive, or got me a gigantic Golgari Grave-Troll to pound through Ghostly Prison or Elephant Grass.

I also don't recommend ever dropping below four Putrid Imps. Imp is incredible if you don't get a diamond, allowing you to hit your second land drop, repeatedly ditch Grave-Trolls and Deep Analyses, and highly importantly, fly for 2. I've won a lot of ground stalemates by sending Imps and Narcomoebas over people's heads. Not to mention, unlike a lot of options, Putrid Imp is still good in the graveyard for the purpose of feeding Teh Ichroidz.

Well I scrubbed out pretty bad at the EPIC DLD this weekend. We ended up driving north to Essex/Montreal instead of West to Buffalo and I drove an extra 200 miles or so. We slept in my car, if you can call that sleep so I was myself a zombie while playing this deck. Its been a few days but heres what I remember..

First my list was the standard with 3 Dread, 1 Sage, 3 Imp, 2 Gamble, 4 Therapy. My sb was 4 LotV, 4 Chalice of the Void, 1 Undiscovered Paradise, 3 Chain of Vapor, 2 Ray of Revalation, 1 Angel of Despair.

Round 1. Dryad Sligh (made top 8)
Game one I mulligan to 4 cards on the draw. I keep a hand of LED, Breakthrough, City, Troll. I rip Stinkweed off the top and smash him into the dirt. Turn one win.

Game two he gets 2 Mogg Fanatics and I couldnt play around both before his burn toasts me.

Game three goes similar, he gets a Crypt and I attack him with a Meoba and 4 Ichy down to 2 life. He top decks the burn he needs on his last turn alive and Fireblasts me. I think I may have won this if I therapied his Fireblast, forcing him to play it early. Unforturnatley I sbed out half of them.

Round 2 Fakespam
He opens with a blue fetch and I go for the turn one kill. I see no FoW when I drop LED and proceed to get the turn one kill again. I dont even know what hes playing. I forgot to therapy him. Fearing Leylines I go with 3 Chain of Vapor.

Turns out he's playing a Magus of the Moon 3c fish deck. He gets Jitte online game 2 I think.... I get my start forced and he squeaks out a win with bobvantage. Game three I get a very late kill with Grave Troll.

Round 3 I think I play against Tariq with black white landstill.
Hes on the draw and opens with a blue fetch. I have yet another turn 1 kill but decided to play it around Daze. I go for turn 3 kill when I realize he's playing Landstill. Shame. I couldve killed all my opponents turn 1 for three rounds!

Game 2 I sb in Chain of Vapors for Leyline. He keeps a hand of 1 land 3 Extirpates and wins obviously. I conceed as we get closer to time since my long strive to victory becomes too tedious. I take CoV out for Chalice of the Void.

Game three he gets another amazing opener. I have 2 Chalice and combocentral in my hand. I play the first and it gets Forced. He proceeds to Exi my Chalice that he just FoW'ed and takes the one in my hand. I start to slow roll him and he drops an Explosives for 0. I try to activate coliseum but he stifles two of them! I get 8 zombies and he blows the explosives. I get Bridge Extirpated and he drops Engineered Explosives on Horrors. I manage to dredge into 2 meobas and cast a thug to dread return a 14/14 troll. He blocks for two turns with Factories. Takes 14 and goes to 4. Then he WoG's. WTF??
I jokingly regenerate the troll. I get a meoba off the top and beat down with it for a turn. Then I dredge back a thug leaving me two cards in lib. I thought I could get the kill before he finds a swords or something. I run out of cards to draw. Im such a loser.. Mistakes all day.

Round 4 I get matched against an older guy not familar with the Gobs deck hes running. I take game one I think. sb in Leylines and lose, then win game three. Or something..

Round 5 I really cant remember what the hell else I played against but I lost to it and dropped to drink with Mr Nightmare and my woman.

I was still impressed with the deck despite my record. I made alot of play mistakes since I was so burnt out and tired.

Glad to see its picking up love in Germany. Its the perfect deck for your meta.

I just gold fished this list 10 times on MWS:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [WL] Gemstone Mine
4 [7E] City of Brass
4 [OD] Cephalid Coliseum

// Creatures
4 [TO] Ichorid
4 [RAV] Golgari Grave-Troll
3 [RAV] Golgari Thug
4 [RAV] Stinkweed Imp
4 [FUT] Narcomoeba
1 [RAV] Flame-Kin Zealot
1 [TO] Cephalid Sage
4 [TO] Putrid Imp

// Spells
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
3 [TO] Deep Analysis
4 [TO] Breakthrough
4 [FUT] Bridge from Below
2 [TSP] Dread Return
2 [US] Gamble

I didn't mulligan once. I had turn two wins 4 times, turn three wins 4 times, and turn four wins twice. I'm really starting to like this deck. Perhaps I'm just lucky.

Ha! I was just playing that exact same list, and I pretty much came to an identical conclusion. Gamble makes the deck a lot more consistant, acting as LED/Breakthrough/Cephalid Coliseum 5 and 6. The only problem I ever encountered was not hitting a Sage or a Flamekin and having to pass the turn with usually ~10-15 cards left in my library. I guess that's just bad luck though.

Sorry, it's only an idea, but, i'm not a ichorid player, but...

...This deck is now a combo deck...
...what do u think about put in 3 slot kiki-karmic-hussar kill?

Why would 3 slots for Kiki-Karmic-Hussar be better than 1 slot for FKZ?

not in alternative...togheter...

When you have 3 creatures in play and a Dread Return + FKZ or Sage in your graveyard, you're usually winning. If you are not, the 4-card-combo (wtf) of Return+Hussar+Guide+Kiki-Jiki (how can you get 4 cards in your graveyard reliably?) would not help either in 98% of the situations. Horrible idea, this deck already is tight on slots.

Basically, the difference between this deck utilizing the SH/KJ/KG combo and Breakfast doing it is a measure of the way the deck utilizes the graveyard. With Breakfast, you have a repeatable loop that dumps your whole deck (or as much of it as you need) into your graveyard all at once. With this deck, it's an incrimental process, which means you can't be guaranteed to hit all the pieces you need in a timely fashion. For this reason, it's more successful to have a deck full of redundancy and one "win condition" as opposed to some form of toolbox. It's rather simple to eventually find a one of, it's much harder to find three of them.

The space in this deck is already tight enough. I don't think it's a good idea to add more cards to the deck that just seem like "win-more".
I will start testing the following changes:
The list I played at Iserlohn
-2x Dread Return
-1x Sage
-1x Zealot

As mentioned above I don't think the combo kill is necessary in this deck.

+1x Undiscovered Paradise
+1x Thug
+2x Gamble

A full set of Gambles and an additional land should make the deck more reliable and consistent. I often felt I needed more land especially post board and to cast DA without LED.

Doesn't cutting FKZ slow you down by a whole turn? You may be slightly more consistent, but losing that speed seems bad. Same with Sage; it lets you dredge an additional 12-18 cards and hit the remaining cards that you need. I can understand boarding out the Dread Return package in some matchups (like Threshold), but cutting it from the deck entirely seems sub-optimal.

Gamble seems really strong. The card is perfect for the deck.

I have been thinking about cutting the Dread Return combo from the deck, as well, but this is mainly, because our German meta is infested with Aggro Control. You don't have to be breathtakingly fast, it is better to be overall consistent. In this matchup, it doesn't matter if you're a turn slower since you just rip their hand apart with Cabal Therapy, have a horde of zombies and win on the next turn.

But I'm afraid that I will miss those sac outlets in the deck. I have often found myself to flashback Dread Return mainly to sacrifice some creatures to get a bunch of zombies. This would be very hard if you cut Dread Return, Cabal Therapy won't be enough. Any thoughts on that?

Any one else try cutting Deep Analysis for Careful Study?