[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

I have played wipe away and I will change it next time. Wipe away of course is good against counterbalance decks, but not against blue decks in general since they don't play many permanents that stop your combo. The rest of the time 3 lifes lost are too many for a card that have other good substitutes.

Here in my meta we are beginning to see lots of tarmoburns, red thresh and so. I wanted to try 1 angel's grace main joined by 4 pacts of negation to see how it performs againts all these red decks.

I ran this list over the weekend to a finals split in my local legacy event. This is a mix between Kim Kluck's dday/ant list and listening to Bryant rant about the amazingness of Burning Wish everyday on instant messenger. Bryant told me to point out that Burning Wish and Reverent Silence are his ideas.

As far as playing this pile is concerned, all of the standard Doomsday tricks apply, you can Burning Wish into an Infernal Tutor to get yourself an Ad Nauseam, and there are several new pass the turn Doomsday piles that are much less vulnerable than in the past thanks to Burning Wish letting you generate more storm through better abuse of Lion's Eye Diamond.

// Storm VXY
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Burning Wish
2 Infernal Tutor
4 Mystical Tutor
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Doomsday
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Meditate
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Lotus Petal
3 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
3 Cabal Ritual
4 Duress
4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Island

SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 Doomsday
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Reverent Silence
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 Helm of Awakening

RIP end of turn Mystical for Ad Nauseam, activing LED during upkeep to play it. You are a casualty of simplifying the rules for the lowest common denominator. Goddamn motherfuckers.

Yeah, I just heard about this. Fucking ridiculous, although I do hate Ad Nauseam because it makes storm combo playable by people who don't understand combo, I still LOVE that play, way to many free wins off of that! It also fucks up emidIn's new pass the turn DD pile.

Maybe Silence will be a good card to help protect the combo?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ciberon

Maybe Silence will be a good card to help protect the combo?

---

This:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bryant Cook

If I was to play Silence it'd be a 1 of over the 4th Chant, solely to get around Runed Halo on Chant.

---

Completely different deck man. TES plays 7 protection spells and 1 bounce spell and generally has no use for Silence as it is not a proactive disrpution spell for CB like Duress is. DDFT is going to benefit greatly for it.

@Ciberon: All ANT really needs is 4x Chant and 4x Duress, Silence is .... really unneeded. Although I think LEDless is garbage, they could potentially benefit, but something like 4x Duress and 4x Blast seems to be pretty damn good.

On a strange and somewhat awkward note, am I the only one who feels that straight up ANT is going to be close to invalid after the new rules?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction

Completely different deck man. TES plays 7 protection spells and 1 bounce spell and generally has no use for Silence as it is not a proactive disrpution spell for CB like Duress is. DDFT is going to benefit greatly for it.

@Ciberon: All ANT really needs is 4x Chant and 4x Duress, Silence is .... really unneeded. Although I think LEDless is garbage, they could potentially benefit, but something like 4x Duress and 4x Blast seems to be pretty damn good.

On a strange and somewhat awkward note, am I the only one who feels that straight up ANT is going to be close to invalid after the new rules?

---

Maybe LED based ANT, but LEDless ANT is unaffected and now that LED isn't nearly as broken it's just another justification to drop the card altogether.

Should a thread with LEDless version could be opened by someone competent?

Who is going to start a petition against the new rules then send it to wizards then the rules will go back?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mercc

Who is going to start a petition against the new rules then send it to wizards then the rules will go back?

---

?

Everyone who has an issue with them should. Note that Wizards in all likelihood doesn't give a crap about a mana burn rule that doesn't affect Standard at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mercc

Who is going to start a petition against the new rules then send it to wizards then the rules will go back?

---

Ask them for a thousand dollars, while you're at it. This way, you might actually not waste your time on a stupid project.

woah, serious dude's :)

Does anyone have a LED-less list? I'm interested in testing it out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kicks_422

Does anyone have a LED-less list? I'm interested in testing it out.

---

There are a few LEDless lists throughout this thread. Emidln posted a UBr list a while back, which had 8 red blasts for protection, that I have found to work very well against blue based control. The UB LEDless lists have all been fairly mediocre in my experience and I feel that they are simply not worth running.

I will also note here that I have been running a list similar to Kim Kluck's (a UBr hybrid) with the primary difference being the addition of 3-4 Pyroblasts to the maindeck instead of having them in the sideboard. I am beginning to test emidln's hyrbid list that runs Burning Wish (which is working much better than I would have guessed).

Right now I'm trying to judge how much this deck is nerfed against CounterTop or blue Tempo strategies with the loss of the Mystical/LED trick. I often found myself winning games after using a turn 1 Duress or Thoughtseize to snag a hard counter then setting up a turn 2/3 win via LED + Mystical.

I'm new to the whole Doomsday in the deck what stacks do you make?

I've posted misc stacks in the past. While some of them have gone down, others do remain, but the basic idea is this:

Draw Spell
Mana/Protection
Mana/Protection
Mana/Storm Engine/Protection
Win Condition

When building piles remember that you always need to end with at least 2BB, 1R or 1U and that you usually want to begin your draw with Brainstorm, Sensei's Divining Top, or Ponder. Brainstorm gives you options to put something like SDT or a tutor on top with some LEDs to be able to fetch out either more cantrips, a storm engine like IGG, or Tendrils. Ponder is almost always going to simply draw into Brainstorm or Meditate. SDT is interesting because it keeps your pile the same. This usually lets you put a draw3 or draw4 on top and lets you abuse Lion's Eye Diamond to cast your finisher.

There are a ton of useful piles, but these (and their variations) are where you probably want to start:

1) Using SDT (costs 2U after your cantrip):
Meditate/LED/LED/Lotus Petal/Tendrils

2) Using Brainstorm/Ponder/SDT (costs 2U after your cantrip)
Meditate/Dark Rit/Dark Rit/Lotus Petal/Tendrils

3) Using SDT (costs 4U after your cantrip)
Meditate/SDT/Helm of Awakening/LED/Grapeshot

4) Using SDT (costs 1U after your cantrip) requires 2 other cards in hand
Brainstorm/LED/LED/IGG/Tendrils

5) Using Brainstorm (costs 1 after your cantrip) requires 2 other cards in hand
SDT/LED/LED/IGG/Tendrils

As an exercise to the reader, work out the storm yourself. None of these piles include the cost of Doomsday. I use roughly 30 piles regularly and many more in esoteric situations. Almost all of them follow these same design patterns.

Someone mentioned that doomsday piles have been affected by the new rules, can anyone tell how? if so.

how come doomsday is not a strong combo-card alone as it only requires one card and 6+ mana?

Because people are too lazy to actually take time to learn it? Maybe because people would rather cast Ad Nauseam than Doomsday? I dunno.. Seriously, it's a one-card engine, tutoring for 5 cards. How powerful is that?

Played on a +75 man tournament. Made the first place.
My list:
Lands
2 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [IN] Island (1)
1 [A] Swamp (1)
3 [b] Underground Sea
1 [b] Tropical Island
2 [ON] Flooded Strand

// Spells
3 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
4 [b] Dark Ritual
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
2 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [MI] Mystical Tutor
4 [FUT] Pact of Negation
4 [US] Duress
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [LRW] Ponder
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [ON] Chain of Vapor

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [RAV] Dark Confidant
SB: 4 [TSP] Angel's Grace
SB: 1 [b] Tundra
SB: 2 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 [AQ] Hurkyl's Recall

I can´t tell something about the matches in detail.
Played against:
Thres with CB
Mono Black Train Wreck Discard
Affinity
UGw Thres
Doran Rock
Aggro Loam
Pro Thres with CB, he was very cool and scooped thus we had the maximun of prices (4 FBB Duals Taiga,Scrubland,Plateu,Badlands and 4 Volcanic Island WB)

I´m very satisfied with my list and I see no reason to add LED or Infernal Tutor. Eminently not because of the M10 Rules.

Congratulations on your finish. How would you side against Merfolk?

Something like this:
-Ponder
-Brainstorm
-Chain of Vapor
-Cabal Ritual
-Tropical Island

+4 Angel´s Grace
+Tundra

Why a maindeck Chain of Vapor? You like sucking from CB? I saw no reason to play it over Rushing River or Grip, as i can' t see how 4x Pact of Negation should be better than Orim' s Chant. I thought that is more a budget version that a most efficent one, LED is still too powerful in this deck for cut it out, regardless of M10 new rules...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by idraleo

Why a maindeck Chain of Vapor? You like sucking from CB? I saw no reason to play it over Rushing River or Grip, as i can' t see how 4x Pact of Negation should be better than Orim' s Chant. I thought that is more a budget version that a most efficent one, LED is still too powerful in this deck for cut it out, regardless of M10 new rules...

---

Perhaps because he could do tricks with Moxen , bounce an artifact of him to copy CoV and bounce oppo's Balance ? And because RR and Grip are damnly slow?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Piceli89

Perhaps because he could do tricks with Moxen , bounce an artifact of him to copy CoV and bounce oppo's Balance ? And because RR and Grip are damnly slow?

---

Right!

And it cc 3 is too bad with Ad Nauseam.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Piceli89

Perhaps because he could do tricks with Moxen , bounce an artifact of him to copy CoV and bounce oppo's Balance ? And because RR and Grip are damnly slow?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linux-ll-

Right!

And it cc 3 is too bad with Ad Nauseam.

---

Wait what?

People actually go into tournaments assumng that their opponents can't play?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Van Phanel

Wait what?

People actually go into tournaments assumng that their opponents can't play?

---

a) you can do tricks with moxen when you need an alt way to increase storm count. Of course it's better to pass from Chant, before.
b) This is difficult, but sometimes an inexpert opponent can let your chain of your petal pass, then you copy it and bounce. Still difficult, I admit it.
c)Sometimes when you draw ( or reveal to AN) Wipe Away/Grip in your opening hand you're not very happy, unless against Cb decks.. and i guess he wasn't playing in a CB-only meta.

Quote:

---

Perhaps because he could do tricks with Moxen , bounce an artifact of him to copy CoV and bounce oppo's Balance ?

---

We can't hope to play against Duffy Duck for 7 turns.
Sometimes in the first tables we found a decent player.

And CoV is useless also against Chalice.

Come on. Chain of Vapor is good....in Vintage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Piceli89

Perhaps because he could do tricks with Moxen , bounce an artifact of him to copy CoV and bounce oppo's Balance ? And because RR and Grip are damnly slow?

---

And assuming we won't sit against Donald Duck for 7 turns in a row?

Linux, congrats to your finish! Your deck looks very well tuned and must be a blast to play (Pacts are sooo sexy in Storm Combo). Your SB looks really well too, but I was never a fan of Angel's Grace - did they do for you what you wanted them to do?
How were the City of Traitors? I thought about running Crystal Vein, since it can speed you up as well, but is not as clunky in the beginning (means: I can play it first and don't have to sac it to play another land).

I agree with Shades here, Crystal Vein negates City's early game problems and has literally no downsides.

//edit: except for the case that you don't play other lands, of course.

Sorry to ask this cause I'm sure it has been discussed before, but I can't find a clear answear!!! Here is the question:

Can we break the LED in the draw step before drawing???

It's sure we can play instants and effects in the draw step, but I dont know if drawing is the first thing to do here without any possibility of doing anything else before.

No, you can't. Drawing a card is a game action, like untapping or discarding down to seven, that happens as soon as the appropriate step starts, without using the stack. Unlike the untap or clean up steps, players do get priority during the draw step, but only after the card has been drawn.

I guess I'm a little confused about your question. When would you want to do something in your drawstep before you draw, but not during your upkeep instead?

If you could do things during your draw step before drawing a card, the Mystical for an Ad Nauseam and sacrifice an LED before you draw to pay for it trick would still work after M2010. Sadly, this is not the case.

Thank you sorrel!

And my question has been also well explained. with the change on the mana pool rules is useful to know exactly all the mechanics of every step.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shades

Linux, congrats to your finish! Your deck looks very well tuned and must be a blast to play (Pacts are sooo sexy in Storm Combo). Your SB looks really well too, but I was never a fan of Angel's Grace - did they do for you what you wanted them to do?
How were the City of Traitors? I thought about running Crystal Vein, since it can speed you up as well, but is not as clunky in the beginning (means: I can play it first and don't have to sac it to play another land).

---

In Spain we had been playing Crystal Veins instead of Citys last two months and results are alot better. For the purpose of this deck Crystal Vein don't have any downside compared with City.

I myself am playing vein now over traitors.

But after boarding in 3 grips, traitors has an advantage, as well as playing and spinning top same turn. I'm still uncertain...

I took ANT to my local tournament last night and made it to the top 4 and split. I went 5-0-1 and there were about 30-32 people there. Below is my list followed by a short tournament report:

4x Dark Ritual
4x LED
4x Mystical Tutor
4x Infernal Tutor
4x Brainstorm
4x Orim's Chant
4x Lotus Petal
4x Cabal Ritual
3x Silence
2x Chrome mox
2x Ponder
2x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Tendrils
1x IGG
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Krosan Grip

4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
2x Underground Sea
1x tundra
1x Scrubland
1x Bayou
1x Tropical Island
1x Island

Sideboard
3x Xantid Swarm
2x Krosan Grip
2x Slaughter Pact
1x Virtue's Ruin
1x Tempest of Light
1x Ray of Revelation
1x Disenchant
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Ad Nauseam
1x IGG
1x Hurkyl's Recall

Round 1: Merfolk
g1 - I draw a shit ton of Rituals and lose cause I everytime I Brainstorm/Ponder I look at more rituals. Happens, I lost on turn 6-7.
g2 - Turn 1 Xantid, turn 3 IGG Loop.
g3 - Having 7 Chants really shined here. I drop an early to with the combo + protection in my hand to try and draw out Daze, and it works. Turn 3 I chant him and it gets Forced. Turn 4 I chant again, he has nothing, double LED + IT wins games.

Round 2: Ranger of Eos Zoo
g1 - He plays 4 maindeck Ethersworn Canonist and goes turn 1 Monkey, turn 2 Canonist ... pressure on. My hand looks good but I need to answer Canonist, upkeep I activate Top and see Petal + Grip! I have 2 turns to setup as he plays more shit and during his end step I go to Grip his Canonist and realize I have no black mana and no petals (except to cast Grip). But I have Ponder in my hand and decide to suck it up and play for the win. EOT Grip then Ponder reveals Sea and a fetch ... Rit, Rit, LED, IT wins it again.
g2 - This sucked. Turn 2 Canonist again, I have the answer but no action spells. 2x Brainstorm and 2x Ponder Reveal nothing and I lose ... sad times.
g3 - He drop turn 1 Monkey, turn 2 Teeg. My hand is Rit, Cabal, Petal, Mystical, Slaughter Pact, EOT MT into AdN, Pact on Teeg, and draw lots of cards with AdN and win.

Round 3: Hybrid Doomsday w/ Blasts and Chant
g1 - Opening hand is beautiful but no Chants but it looks fast as hell. I Brainstorm into 2 Silence and win after a lot of setup turns. 7 Chants just dominates here.
g2 - I get a decent hand with 2 Chant and no action spells. We have Chant wars and after he has 2 Chants in the yard and 3 cards in hand my hand consists of: Rit, Cabal (with thresh), Cabal, LED, IT and I draw Brainstorm and storm into another IT and I add shit tons of mana and tendrils for exactly 20.

Round 4: Combo Elves
g1 - Gets a little scary as Ponders reval nothing but Top sets me up and I won on turn 5 at 2 life!
g2 - Turn 2 Ad Nauseam and draw half the deck and win!

Round 5: Burn
ID

Top 8
Round 6: Standard RG Aggro, no joke, this thing ravaged everything it played against.
g1 - Opening hand: Rit, Cabal, fetch, AdN, Cabal, Brainstorm, Grip, turn 1 win and I ripped Rit off the top just to add more mana!
g2 - Opening hand: Rit, AdN, Cabal, Brainstorm, Chain of Vapor, fetch, Sea. I rip Cabal off the top and go nuts. 2 turn 1 wins against a standard deck ... LOL. The entire tournament I think I won on turn 1 a total of 3 times and 2 were against the same deck in the top 8!

Overall I REALLY love this build. Silence is a disgusting amount of awesome and makes me feel a lot more confident with playing IGG. Both games I won against Merfolk he flashed me Stifle in hand! Very cool. Only thing I would change is the SB. I used everything except IGG. I thought it might be a good idea against Burn after I board out AdN but it really isn't that necessary. I would go -1 IGG and +1 Naturalize to the SB. Aside form that, I love everything about this list.

First off I realize it looks different. 2x Chrome Mox feels perfect with this build, test it out as it is. Since Silence has been printed I wanted to play a more IGGY-style deck as opposed to the current AdN lists and I actually win VIA the IGG loop most of my games. 2x Top 2x Ponder split is good. You get to do stupid things with Top and it helps bad Ad Nauseams when you can only add 1 U and 1 B afterwards. I would like to get a third Ponder into the deck but I feel it is running the perfect amount of Rituals and would not cut a Cabal at this point for almost anything but that is the most likely candidate for Ponder #3. Any questions about the list, how I sided etc. are more than welcome! Thoughts?

Great to see combo kick ass.

But why the 2/2 split on ponder and sensei?

When trying to set up fast you want ponder as sensei takes more mana.
And when slowrolling with fetches sensei is better.

My first thought is going 4 ponder and no sensei's but I haven't played it :)