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Re: The current state of Magic
Assigning 61.4 million to Toys R Us is pretty disingenous. The stuff was still selling before, it just wasnt selling at ToysRus, which is why they went out of business.
Looking at that "math" as an mba, I'm kinda skeptical. It reads like the crap you put out if you're trying to convince someone that bad is actually good. i.e. Look, sales are only down because struggling retailer went out of business and the old guy we fired put out a bad product and we didn't release as much product and peoples dogs were sick a lot this year. But LOOK, our new thing! SUPER SHINY! BEST EVER!
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Re: The current state of Magic
What's the saying, Data can be manipulated to prove anything? Kinda smelled like that.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Claymore
What's the saying, Data can be manipulated to prove anything? Kinda smelled like that.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (allegedly) Benjamin Disraeli
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
morgan_coke
Assigning 61.4 million to Toys R Us is pretty disingenous. The stuff was still selling before, it just wasnt selling at ToysRus, which is why they went out of business.
Looking at that "math" as an mba, I'm kinda skeptical. It reads like the crap you put out if you're trying to convince someone that bad is actually good. i.e. Look, sales are only down because struggling retailer went out of business and the old guy we fired put out a bad product and we didn't release as much product and peoples dogs were sick a lot this year. But LOOK, our new thing! SUPER SHINY! BEST EVER!
I'm pretty sure that Toys r Us went bankrupt because of unsustainable debt incurred by the leveraged buyout that happened in the mid 00s more than anything else.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
phonics
I'm pretty sure that Toys r Us went bankrupt because of unsustainable debt incurred by the leveraged buyout that happened in the mid 00s more than anything else.
Yep. Toys of the last few years was making money, just not enough money to overtake the greed that had put it in an unsustainable position.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Aside from Richard Shay tweeting about how the bending issues aren't fixed with the new coating, there's also Ewan Erwin requesting pictures of printing errors. :eyebrow:
On a slightly different note
Kelly Digges, creative lead of Dominaria, has suddenly stopped working for WotC. Probably got fired.
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Re: The current state of Magic
I played in a Dominaria draft the other night. The set is a lot of fun and feels very old school. I managed to do well with a deck that basically made it off of a few crappy blockers, 7 main deck counterspells (including 5x Syncopate), bounce spells with stapled on card advantage, and 2x 10 mana finishers (Josu Vess, Lich Knight and Slinn Voda, the Rising Deep).
Buuut... the cards were all weirdly warped right out of the pack. Sitting on a shelf you can instantly tell which cards are from Dominaria from across the room. For extra amusement, they warp the opposite direction of the few foil cards I have from other sets.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
The only thing surprising there is that Erwin doesn't work for Wizards, assuming "Marketing Manager for CoolStuffInc" is correct. Working in manufacturing myself, I would want Wizards to be collecting print error data from the field so they could correct going forward...instead of just putting their heads in the sand. Quality can catch a lot of stuff, but invariably you'll have escapes.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Claymore
The only thing surprising there is that Erwin doesn't work for Wizards, assuming "Marketing Manager for CoolStuffInc" is correct. Working in manufacturing myself, I would want Wizards to be collecting print error data from the field so they could correct going forward...instead of just putting their heads in the sand. Quality can catch a lot of stuff, but invariably you'll have escapes.
Question is how openly WotC can admit that they're selling faulty product before getting hit with a class-action lawsuit.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bosque
I played in a Dominaria draft the other night. The set is a lot of fun and feels very old school. I managed to do well with a deck that basically made it off of a few crappy blockers, 7 main deck counterspells (including 5x Syncopate), bounce spells with stapled on card advantage, and 2x 10 mana finishers (Josu Vess, Lich Knight and Slinn Voda, the Rising Deep).
Buuut... the cards were all weirdly warped right out of the pack. Sitting on a shelf you can instantly tell which cards are from Dominaria from across the room. For extra amusement, they warp the opposite direction of the few foil cards I have from other sets.
Are foils warped or is it every card? Foils suck
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barook
Question is how openly WotC can admit that they're selling faulty product before getting hit with a class-action lawsuit.
They're only open to a suit if they knowingly sold faulty product. If they just tried to skimp on costs and made something bad by accident, not so much. Even when Pinto's were blowing up and killing people, Ford only got busted once it was proven they knew about the bad gas tanks ahead of time.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
morgan_coke
They're only open to a suit if they knowingly sold faulty product. If they just tried to skimp on costs and made something bad by accident, not so much. Even when Pinto's were blowing up and killing people, Ford only got busted once it was proven they knew about the bad gas tanks ahead of time.
Given how bad the card stock is now for 1-1.5 years by now, I don't think it's an "accident" anymore, like the failure that was the paper Modern Masters 2015 packaging.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Megadeus
Are foils warped or is it every card? Foils suck
Foils do suck, and I avoid them like the plague but have a couple where the foils were cheaper than regular printings (Imperial Recruiter, Ajani Vengeant). But no, every card is warped, not just foils.
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Re: The current state of Magic
How do you prove the product is faulty?
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Re: The current state of Magic
Wizards appears to have fired their VP of Production.
Maro's said in an article on the Mothership that Wizards is considering a Return to Dominaria only because the set was so well received. Glad they decided to not throw away all of the history of the game.
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Re: The current state of Magic
OMG.
Saffron Olive has an article up on Arena at mtggoldfish today.
The comments are fucking priceless. Literally the only people in the comments saying the economy is ok and they can build what they want are the ones saying they spent $500+ on gems.
BAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHA.
Like, I mean, ffs, make the game generous, get people in, sell Judge Promo art and full art cards and shit to make your $$ back. This should be the most brain dead easy decision in the world, and they're going to fuck it up.
That's amazing.
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Re: The current state of Magic
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zombie
Is that a real fucking card?!?!?!?
Ha. Hahahahahaha.
Remember when a 2/2 one drop was so strong it could only be white and had to have the Legendary tag on it as a drawback? Ah, fun times.
Still way worse than Delver.
Which is also Blue.
Because of course.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Claymore
Wizards appears to have fired their VP of Production.
Interesting - where did you get that from?
Quote:
Maro's said in an article on the Mothership that Wizards is considering a Return to Dominaria only because the set was so well received. Glad they decided to not throw away all of the history of the game.
People love Dominaria since it's the core lore of the game. It's mindboggling how deep they have their heads in their asses thinking to skip Dominaria like that. I'd take more Dominaria over garbage settings like Amonkhet or especially Ixalan every day of the week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
morgan_coke
Like, I mean, ffs, make the game generous, get people in, sell Judge Promo art and full art cards and shit to make your $$ back. This should be the most brain dead easy decision in the world, and they're going to fuck it up.
That's amazing.
Apparently they've hired three people regarding online economies in the wake of making Arena, which begs the question what in the name of fuck these people are doing. I wouldn't be suprised if they came from the mobile game sector, trying to make the most exploitative economy possible. Thing is, those peopke don't understand how the game works - and that will be Arena's downfall.
Edit: One of the best parts is WotC having no idea how to handle rotations properly and just handwaves it. That pure amount of hubris, ignorance and stupidity is stellar.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Saw that VP firing mentioned by a friend, appears to be a Rudy video. Not sure of the legitimacy past that.
But what flavor of hat will Dominaria get in the Return set?????
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
morgan_coke
Is that a real fucking card?!?!?!?
Ha. Hahahahahaha.
Remember when a 2/2 one drop was so strong it could only be white and had to have the Legendary tag on it as a drawback? Ah, fun times.
Still way worse than Delver.
Which is also Blue.
Because of course.
Real card is real.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
morgan_coke
OMG.
Saffron Olive has an article up on Arena at mtggoldfish today.
The comments are fucking priceless. Literally the only people in the comments saying the economy is ok and they can build what they want are the ones saying they spent $500+ on gems.
BAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHA.
Like, I mean, ffs, make the game generous, get people in, sell Judge Promo art and full art cards and shit to make your $$ back. This should be the most brain dead easy decision in the world, and they're going to fuck it up.
That's amazing.
It helps if you provide people with a link to the article:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...more-questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
morgan_coke
Is that a real fucking card?!?!?!?
Ha. Hahahahahaha.
Remember when a 2/2 one drop was so strong it could only be white and had to have the Legendary tag on it as a drawback? Ah, fun times.
Still way worse than Delver.
Which is also Blue.
Because of course.
Not sure what the big deal is. Red has a strictly better version of it in Inventor's Apprentice.
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Re: The current state of Magic
I wonder who this game is directed at. Wouldn't limited players rather play on mtgo where they can sell the cards they draft for tickets (or trade them for cards they need in constructed formats), while having access to cube drafts and other formats? Without trading or secondary a secondary market, constructed players will never play this over mtgo. It is basically a mtg game for people who dont play mtg (ie it is directed at Hearthstone players that want something more complex).
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Re: The current state of Magic
No, it's directed at shareholders wondering why Hearthstone is making more money online after 3 years than MTG is after 20+.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
morgan_coke
No, it's directed at shareholders wondering why Hearthstone is making more money online after 3 years than MTG is after 20+.
Hey now, #notallshareholders
I remember the best use of Duel of the Planewalkers games were these magic "puzzles" they employed as a teaching tool to develop the critical thinking and ass-around order you need to be good that the game. You;d load up a board state and typically the requirement would be to win that turn, sometimes it would be to not die that turn.
I recall one when you had 4 mana, 3 creatures, one holding a Jitte with 4 counter on it. The opponent had two blockers and was at low life. Their toughness was such you couldn't kill them and get enough power through. The solution was to pump the creature, move the Jitte, pump that one, move it again and pump, sending three guys and the one that gets through would be lethal.
It was those kind of Chess/Go problems that made it something worth all the garbage that was the rest of the game. If they could do anything, it would be more of that.
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Re: The current state of Magic
I use MTG Arena everyday now and oh boy this soft is sweet.
The real problem is the economy as Safron olive says. And while i have a deck that fits me right now i'm really wondering if i'll be able to redo it when they'll wipe the accounts for the open beta....
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Re: The current state of Magic
I'm enjoying arena but I also bought one of the big packs to get started. I can imagine it being super annoying as a f2p person but I wasn't ever gonna go that route anyways since grinding is for people with more time than money.
I hate playing paper magic these days (had enough of playing with crusty fucks in dingy little shops), hate mtgo, and don't have that much time anyways so getting a few casual-ish games in on arena is just about perfect for me. The format isn't ideal but dominaria is really awesome so I'm having a refreshing amount of fun with it considering how burnt out on legacy and magic I've been in general.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Seth
Sure, I mean, what color DOESN'T have a one-drop 2/2 or better dependent on artifacts? Black and Green, I guess. White has at least 2. Still, if any color is supposed to have weaker creatures, it is blue, and giving blue a 1cc 2/2 like Delver just seems really bonkers for what the color is supposed to be about.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MaximumC
Sure, I mean, what color DOESN'T have a one-drop 2/2 or better dependent on artifacts? Black and Green, I guess. White has at least 2. Still, if any color is supposed to have weaker creatures, it is blue, and giving blue a 1cc 2/2 like Delver just seems really bonkers for what the color is supposed to be about.
It would be ok if it had a drawback (and the flip trigger is pathetically easy to build around in every format.) If it flipped back again if someone played 2 spells, like the werewolves, it would have been much more fair and much less playable. Not that I'm complaining, I think delver is fine for the format, just agreeing that it doesn't really fit the traditional blue mold.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Safety
It would be ok if it had a drawback (and the flip trigger is pathetically easy to build around in every format.) If it flipped back again if someone played 2 spells, like the werewolves, it would have been much more fair and much less playable. Not that I'm complaining, I think delver is fine for the format, just agreeing that it doesn't really fit the traditional blue mold.
I am more offended by a 3/1 - Protection from everything your opponent has, which isn't white (as it should) but blue. Maybe just me
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Re: The current state of Magic
Yeah, I definitely think the biggest thing contributing to the problems with the format in general, and the "cantrip shell" in particular are that Black has the best mana dork and Blue has the best creatures.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
morgan_coke
Yeah, I definitely think the biggest thing contributing to the problems with the format in general, and the "cantrip shell" in particular are that Black has the best mana dork and Blue has the best creatures.
I was one of the old hags nagging for years that everyone is just playing blue shell + delver and that the main differences are only the colors they choose between RUG, BUG, UWR or UR, which seems silly now that DRS literally eliminated exactly that variance and turned everything BUGx.
Having a permanent 5c manaacceleration, yardhate and cursed scroll available off your Underground Sea, trivialized cardchoices and nonbasic hate
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
I was one of the old hags nagging for years that everyone is just playing blue shell + delver and that the main differences are only the colors they choose between RUG, BUG, UWR or UR, which seems silly now that DRS literally eliminated exactly that variance and turned everything BUGx.
Having a permanent 5c manaacceleration, yardhate and cursed scroll available off your Underground Sea, trivialized cardchoices and nonbasic hate
Yeah, I have to chime in on this one. One of the large advantages people who play Legacy as their main format had was deck recognition. I used to be able to see your turn one Fetch, what land you got, and what spell you played, and know what your were on at least 75% of the time. And with the slow evolution of cards into the format, and changes in subsequent lists, I'd usually know at least 75% of your list once deducing what you were playing. Now, X Fetch into Sea into Deathrite means I can eliminate maybe 40% of the meta. Maybe.
EDIT: A prime example of in-game actions being warped by the new meta; When RUG was a huge player, obviously before Deathrite, a common play, even blind, was T1 Fetch a land, go. Even without Basics. Because it was so much worse getting Stifled with no T1 play, than Wasted. When's the last time anyone saw anyone do that?
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Parcher
When RUG was a huge player, obviously before Deathrite, a common play, even blind, was T1 Fetch a land, go. Even without Basics. Because it was so much worse getting Stifled with no T1 play, than Wasted. When's the last time anyone saw anyone do that?
Fetching a Dual without any Ponder/DRS/Delver/Mongoose/etc played before passing? Prolly 2007? Could be wrong though. Too long ago regardless.
I agree on the deck identification. There was a time when you could identify opposing decks based on the fetches, lands fetched and first spell cast, which was temendously helpful as a combo player. These days, every tempo and midrange deck looks the same and I cant even predict, if they play stifles or Hymns as their disruption or how the fuck their endgame might looks. Could be anything from Jace to Leovold to Gurmag.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
I cant even predict, if they play stifles or Hymns as their disruption or how the fuck their endgame might looks. Could be anything from Jace to Leovold to Gurmag.
Isn't this a positive thing?
I'd rather play a game where you actually gain some win% by making smart picks for what cards to play rather than just "I'm playing X deck, I guess my whole 75 is locked in" (and I say this as a RUG player)
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kombatkiwi
Isn't this a positive thing?
I'd rather play a game where you actually gain some win% by making smart picks for what cards to play rather than just "I'm playing X deck, I guess my whole 75 is locked in" (and I say this as a RUG player)
That's not what I meant. I wanted to refer that we are at the point of tempo, midrange and control running the same shell with like 65% of the decks being identical. There was a time these strategies differed drastically in terms of card selection and colors.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Ban DRS, Gurmag, and the Blue creatures (leovold, TNN, Delver). That will force decks to re-diversify without touching fetches, duals, or the blue cantrip shell wotc loves so much.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MaximumC
Sure, I mean, what color DOESN'T have a one-drop 2/2 or better dependent on artifacts? Black and Green, I guess. White has at least 2. Still, if any color is supposed to have weaker creatures, it is blue, and giving blue a 1cc 2/2 like Delver just seems really bonkers for what the color is supposed to be about.
Blue has had Phantasmal Bear for years.
I just don't see why a one-drop 2/2 is particularly shocking at this point. Every color has those and they've had them for a while.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
morgan_coke
Ban DRS, Gurmag, and the Blue creatures (leovold, TNN, Delver). That will force decks to re-diversify without touching fetches, duals, or the blue cantrip shell wotc loves so much.
I like idea of banning: DRS, Leovold, TNN, Delver and Griselbrand at once.
DRS - omnipresent in each blue cartel, which changed to Ub/x cartel.
Leovold - mistake in design too many good abilities - and no real cost effective and CA answer to it (cheapest mass removal is for 3 mana + drawback - like paying life) each other gives -1 CA.
TNN - similar to Leovold, mistake in design - actually it's just bad design, which is out of color-wheel, out of interactive play - it required special rulling in comp rules - just awful.
Delver - 3/2 flying for U - no drawbacks, that's how you creating one of dominating archetype since 2011 until today.
Griselbrand is similar "mistake" like DRS, but in Combo category - bring in fattie - you don't think about which fatty is ok vs proper situation, you bring Grisel every time, since it's like old Skull (Necropotence or later Yawg Bergain - both banned) drawing more cards is enough to win, add to it 7/7 body flying and lifelink.. idiotic, and can't be answered symetrical you always draw 7 cards, or will have bigger body. S&T and Reanimator dropped diversity bacause of it.
Gurmag is like Tombstalker, one mana cheaper but without reach - it's ok in power level and diversity, you can also use 4/5 legendary version with option.
P.S Missed last "mistake" in design - Omniscience - players like interesting cards which interact with each other not cards which has on their text box - you win the game. It's not oppressing it's just bad card design.
Edit to
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecrav
We a B&R thread now, boyz
Little true but it's very connected - current state of Magic makes format less diversity since R&D form WotC produce bad designed cards in last few years and do nothing with it. That's why Banned & Restricted list exist - but WotC refuse to take any action to correct mistakes in development. It's scary how long took correct mistake with Terminus and how they correct it - SDT ban, similar like with Vengevines and Survival, the more engines they ban, instead issues, then less diversity and more paper (Grixis Delver) / rock (Czech Pile) / scissors(Chalice based decks) / ok let be Spock also (D&T) will be format instead of multi-dimensional matrix.
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Re: The current state of Magic
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fatal
I like idea of banning: DRS, Leovold, TNN, Delver and Griselbrand at once.
DRS - omnipresent in each blue cartel, which changed to Ub/x cartel.
Leovold - mistake in design too many good abilities - and no real cost effective and CA answer to it (cheapest mass removal is for 3 mana + drawback - like paying life) each other gives -1 CA.
TNN - similar to Leovold, mistake in design - actually it's just bad design, which is out of color-wheel, out of interactive play - it required special rulling in comp rules - just awful.
Delver - 3/2 flying for U - no drawbacks, that's how you creating one of dominating archetype since 2011 until today.
Griselbrand is similar "mistake" like DRS, but in Combo category - bring in fattie - you don't think about which fatty is ok vs proper situation, you bring Grisel every time, since it's like old Skull (Necropotence or later Yawg Bergain - both banned) drawing more cards is enough to win, add to it 7/7 body flying and lifelink.. idiotic, and can't be answered symetrical you always draw 7 cards, or will have bigger body. S&T and Reanimator dropped diversity bacause of it.
Gurmag is like Tombstalker, one mana cheaper but without reach - it's ok in power level and diversity, you can also use 4/5 legendary version with option.
P.S Missed last "mistake" in design - Omniscience - players like interesting cards which interact with each other not cards which has on their text box - you win the game. It's not oppressing it's just bad card design.
Edit to
Little true but it's very connected - current state of Magic makes format less diversity since R&D form WotC produce bad designed cards in last few years and do nothing with it. That's why Banned & Restricted list exist - but WotC refuse to take any action to correct mistakes in development. It's scary how long took correct mistake with Terminus and how they correct it - SDT ban, similar like with Vengevines and Survival, the more engines they ban, instead issues, then less diversity and more paper (Grixis Delver) / rock (Czech Pile) / scissors(Chalice based decks) / ok let be Spock also (D&T) will be format instead of multi-dimensional matrix.
You know what, I actually think you got some very good points here.
