I dunno, being assraped by a single goyf, that still can come by thou Prison found place is just lame.Quote:
prison >>>> ensnaring bridge anytime of the day for me
Bridge sounds auspicious to me.
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I dunno, being assraped by a single goyf, that still can come by thou Prison found place is just lame.Quote:
prison >>>> ensnaring bridge anytime of the day for me
Bridge sounds auspicious to me.
Great points klaus. I agree completely. G. Prison gives your opponent a choice as to what is best for them. Bridge doesn't. Not giving them a choice is always better.
You did leave off Ensnaring Bridge's biggest con though. It makes it much harder for you to win as well. You can no longer count on bigass Angels to quickly end the game for you rather than have it drag on for another twenty minutes. But somepeople dislike Angels already. So for them, Ensnaring should be very promising.
As for Moat, it costs 4 mana. That's pretty significant actually. And it also does nothing to stop Tombstalkers, Trygon Predators, Mystic Enforcers, Angels, Sea Drakes and Hypnotic Specters. That's pretty significant as well.
imho, wildfire is not a very good card these days. The most popular creatures nowadays are Goyf, Tombstalker and Dreadnought. Wildfire doesn't kill any of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathScythe
It's basically a 6cc Armageddon that only blows up 4 lands and thus doesn't screw over control decks nearly as much.
So I'm not sure why the card would see much play in legacy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EaD
being raped by 1 power goblins under a bridge also doesn't sound very good to me aswell. But both cards have their pro's and cons and I still think prison is better due to the fact that people have to pay mana for attacking, which is in fact synergic with the overall list.
And captain hammah, WildFire is also a deck nowadays...
There are many more tools available to a deck with this style of control than just WildFire. What happens when the control deck sees you cycle decree of annihilation? Or if the creature deck watches you cast Devastation? Burning wish -> Rough/Tumble handles Tombstalkers.... The deck and concept is not limited to just wildfire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
As I said, it looks like you need sideboard cards against Goblins when you don't run Prison. Is Sphere of Law really enough here ?Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
Canonist doesn't actually help against Hurkyls Recall or Serenity. Against Serenity, at least you have three Rings, but against Recall the only thing that helps would be Chalice @2, I think. Maybe you could sideboard Chant (I think having one mana open is not that difficult, and if there's a 3Sphere or Chalice down, they have to get rid of that first anyway). It can replace Defense Grid since it does the same thing (only worse).
Pre geddonstax deck was made i've constructed a white stax deck that uses ensaring bridge.
I combined it with bottled cloister. The defense of the deck would greatly improve but you still need ghostly prison. and the win condition was very long thus i didn't push through.
Maybe the inclussion of ensnaring bridge would fit a different build all together. Maybe it would be different approah on how you'll lock a player, like the use of an enlightened tutor or draw engine or something.
The current geddon stax build has already good synergy, and yes the win condition is slow if the only win condition you have are the magus and factories but for me i like better that way.
Again it would boil down to a players preferrence if he / she would use an angel or plainswalker.
I've just returned from a 24 man tournament where I ended 7th. About the bridge/prison question I can add another thing: Powder Keg would have killed my Bridge, but keeps my Prison alive. Hoorah for Prison. In my meta, there's always a couple of Goblins and Dragon Stompies around. They carry Shattering Spree. Not nice to add Bridge to the list of stuff that gets spreed imo.
Anyway, without further ado, I'll give you my ridiculous decklist (did I mention it was a 20-ish man tourney, so it's a perfect testride for the big'uns :smile:)
ADHD-Stax:
4 Magus of the Tabernacle
3 Smokestack
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Mox Diamond
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Armageddon
1 Ravages of War
--+
36 nonlands
7 Plains
1 Plateau
3 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
1 Kor Haven
--+
24 lands
Sideboard:
4 Suppression Field
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Powder Keg
2 Ajani Vengeant
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Kjeldoran Outpost
1 Plains
Yes people, those who are following the Source for the last few months may have noticed I am a little bit crazy, so I tried a ridiculous sideboard. Now I'm going to try and remember my match-ups as best as possible and explain why I did certain silly things :wink:.
Match 1: Fahad MUC, played by Fahad.
If you're Dutch, you know this guy. You also know he plays MUC. You also know he's good at playing MUC.
We start off and I begin with a mul (no land) and then keep a slow but steady hand. He drops a Powder Keg which I mistake for a Vedalken Shackles along the line, seeing it pop at 3 and loses me the game. Oops, I guess I didn't have enough coffee yet :wink:
I sideboard in: 1 Kjeldoran Outpost, 1 Plains for 2 Wastelands. 2 Ajani Vengeants and 2 Powder Kegs for 4 Ghostly Prison.
Game 2 begins: I have to mul again to six. I keep a hand with only 2 lands, but with alot of utility; I believe Powder Keg, Crucible of Worlds, Oblivion Ring and Armageddon. Turn 1 I drop a land. Turn 2 I drop a land and a Powder Keg. He wonders what I need the Powder Keg was for, after the match I explained to him it was against his Powder Kegs, which made sense :wink:. Anyway, long story cut short: I don't draw land 3 until turn 8 or so, and he went aggro mode with Sower of Temptation and Morphling. Ouch.
0-1-0
Match 2 was against W/G Zoo with Epochrasite and Flickerwisp, played by Maarten.
I don't remember alot about game 1, but after a few turns I Geddon him, lock him down and win.
Because he played G/W I assumed he has Gaddock Teegs, so I sided in my Powder Kegs and The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, since appeared to have no nonbasic hate, I also put in my Kjeldoran Outpost. Out went 4 Chalice of the Void I believe.
He begins, and stomps me with Epochrasite and Flickerwisp. I'm down in 3 or 4 turns or so. Ouch.
I didn't see Gaddock Teeg, so I pulled out a Smokestack, Trinisphere and put in 2 Ajani Vengeant.
I kept a funky fast hand for the fun of it. I began, so what the heck :wink:. I dropped a turn 2 Ajani Vengeant which denied his mana for a few turns, and then started shooting his Flickerwisp and Mangara of Corondor. His 4/4 Epochrasite recieved an Oblivion Ring. Ajani won me the game here, he was very cool :smile:. Turns out later, Maarten played Gaddock Teeg mainboard; he just didn't draw him.
1-1-0
Match 3, UGb disruptcontrol by Johan. A bit like Threshold, but no Nimble Mongoose and more control. Johan had won the big tournament the day before in Rotterdam, so I know what he can do.
Game 1, after a few turns I lock him and he scoops.
I side in Engineered Explosives and Powder Keg against his Goyfs and Bob. I was thinking about getting Suppression Fields, because he used lots of Fetch, but I didn't bother. I believe I took out 4 Ghostly Prisons.
Game 2, I softlock him, but he gets in a Goyf. After a while I get Oblivion Ring on that sucker and a little while later, just before I hardlock him, he scoops.
2-1-0
Match 4, Mono Blue Faeries by Mike. I've seen Mike at a couple of tournaments but never played him. I also had no idea what he played. On top of that, I never played Faeries so I had no idea what to expect from the T2 jank.
Game 1, it takes quite a while, but eventually he gets me...
I think I sided in The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, 2 Powder Kegs, 2 Ajani Vengeant and 2 Engineered Explosives, and side out 4 Chalice of the Void (he didn't play anything of consequence with cc1 or cc2) and 1 Trinisphere.
Game 2, I have to mul to 6, don't really get started (he boarded in Relic Barrier) and get pwned by a big 4/4 flyer. Damnit, it's very politically incorrect, but I hate Faeries.
2-2-0
Match 5, GWR Zoo by Jelmer.
Game 1, I've seen him play before but I forgot what he played. I was on the play, so I just thought, ah well, let's do the standard program: Ancient Tomb, Chalice@1, go. Jelmer screamed and cried. I knew I did something right. Then I remember it. He played Kird Ape, Wild Nacatl, Swords to Plowshares, Berserks and the like. This was going to be fun. He drops fetch, fetches Savannah, go. The second turn I dropped a Trinisphere. He cried some more. After a while he thumps me with a 2/3 Tarmogoyf, while I have a Ghostly Prison in play. Just for the heck of it I Oblivion Ring his Tarmogoyf. He screams some more, and when I get Wastelock on him he scoops.
Sideboard...well, what to sideboard against your perfect match-up? Hmm, let's see...I could use those Powder Kegs, Engineered Explosives, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale and Kjeldoran Outpost (I could even use the Suppression Fields against the Fetches, GeddonStax packs just too much hate against these kind of decks). But what to board out? For the Kjeldoran Outpost it was easy: I just took a Plains out and threw that one in. I also took out 3 Smokestacks and put in the Powder Keg and an Explosives.
Game 2, he begins plays Taiga and nothing. I play some stuff, he plays some more. Somewhere turn 3 or 4 (I didn't have him locked yet), he thought 'what's the use' and offered me his hand.
3-2-0.
I now have 9 points and you need 10 to win something; I had no chance of getting in the top4 (because it's such a small tourney there wasn't a top8, but a top4).
Match 6: Aggro Loam by Merrin.
I know Merrin. I also know he plays a good Loam. I explained the 10-point rule to him and we agreed upon a draw (we played 2 games for fun and he totally kicked my ass. I was playing weird though; but still, Aggro Loam is still a tough match-up).
3-2-1
All in all, I must say I like Ajani Vengeant in my sideboard. I probably won't play any Planeswalker mainboard though; they're just not worth it. But that turn 2 Ajani was incredible!
Surpisingly I didn't use Suppression Field. I'm now thinking of cutting them for Pithing Needles. Yes, I'm thinking of cutting the Suppression Fields. Not Ajani or Kjeldoran Outpost or the Plains. How weird am I? :tongue:
- That singleton Plateau alongside our Diamonds won't reliably endow you with R to cast Ajani.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeggi
- Outposts? SB Plains? You sure boast a unique kind of humor :laugh:
---
On Bridge again..
Here's an RW version that I put together during the last two days:
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Wasteland
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Plains
4 Plateau
(-25-)
2 Ajani Vengeants
2 Elspeths
3 Smokestacks
4 Moxen
4 Chalices
4 Bridges
3 Trinispheres
4 Geddons
4 Crucibles
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Magi
SB:
4 Needles
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Defense Grid
2 Ajani Goldmane
? Firespout ?
? Magus of the Moon ?
? something RED, that rocks ? - help me out.
I'm still convinced the Bridge+Planeswalker thing has a lot of potential.
I'll let you know what testing tells me.
Actually I had no problem producing the :r: when I needed it, wether for Ajani or for EE@2. The Oupost functioned in some games as a Kor Haven. I'm surprised by how good it is actually. As long as they don't play too much nonbasic hate, it's a great card to have! But I have been screwed over with nonbasic hate before, that's why I put in the Plains. I still don't regret it :wink:.Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
Your Planeswalker Stax list looks like alot of fun though :smile:. I must say nonbasic hate is pretty big in my meta. I don't think I can pull this off.
did anyone test tutors? i know they have bad sinergy with chalices but they can help u against fast decks. i mean if u have a prison or smthg like a prison against goblins u will probably win. if u havent then u usually have to mulligan until u get it it. if u still dont get it or enough mana to pay for it then u will lose. same thing is with trinisphere against combo. how about using tutors in a main deck or even in a sideboard to have additional copies of cards u need against fast decks?
also playing tutors allows u to play some silver bullets like moat for goblins, sphere of law for burn, oblivion ring for trygon predator, humility for survivals, pithing needle for deed, runed halo for something ure afraid of etc. what do u think?
I have found ETutor to be awkward. At times it will get you exactly what you need, at times it will set you back by doing exactly what you brought it in for in the first place, and at times you'll be unhappy because you got Chalice, which is good, but are facing an attacker, which is not. Blue can let it resolve then counter the target, resulting in a huge tempo swing for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykpon
Needle is brought in in matchups where it'll hurt your opponent nearly as much as Chalice, thus being a legitimate pre-Chalice play, and reasonable enough to keep a hand with one mana on t1, whereas ETutor is not.
I also think (and this too comes from experience) that turning Stax into a toolbox is not a good idea. We don't have a draw or even filter engine; consistency is thus very important, and even so we're facing the dreaded five land or no accel draw. Singleton lands don't hurt much, but you'll hate drawing overly specialized spells when you need another lock piece.
4 Crucibles, 4 Flagstones, 4 Diamonds should keep you in good shape against nonbasic hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeggi
If you wanna play it even safer:
go:
2 Fetchies
2 Plateau
5 Plains
Not all nonbasic hate is Wasteland. Crucible and Flagstones do nothing against Moon effects, Back to Basics or Price of Progress. Stifle doesn't only work on Fetch but also on Flagstones.Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
Congrats on the top 7 skeggi!Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeggi
Would you care to elaborate more on Ajani being incredible... Ajani's on the side, I assume, comes more against control variants and thresh..
Thanks :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by f|i[p]
As I said in my tournament report, Ajani was able to slow the opponent down real nice, and every threat except 1 got shot down by his Lightning Helix. The one threat that got through recieved an O-ring. The boy scooped right after Ajani hit 7 loyalty. In this specific case Ajani was very nice.
I've been thinking about the situation; what if I otherwise would have had Exalted Angel for instance: she'd have gone out and fly turn 2, but she is vulnerable to plows, and what's more, she doesn't deny mana and Ajani does; basically you can look at it like this: Angel stomps your opponent and gains you life, creating a possible 'Angellock'. Ajani slows down your opponent and kills his creatures (and then also gains you life), creating a possible 'Ajanilock'; which is a softer lock than the Angellock, but fits the theme of Armageddon Stax very nicely.
Ajani isn't good per se against decks that play control; aggro-ish decks with a tight mana curve also seem to die to Ajani. Often the creatures they produce die to Lightning Helix; and otherwise you can deny their mana. I'm still not convinced on Ajani I must admit, but he surely still is something to keep in mind. In the entirety of 6 rounds, he was broken once, and a couple of times useful on occasion: drew out a FoW and stuff like that. Ofcourse you can wonder if :2::r::w: is worth drawing out a FoW :wink:
Ok.. a shourt tourney report... Went on a 33 person tourney, I got a 3-2 record... top 9... didn't get to make it to top 8 but It was quite a good tourney over all.
I was quite bored and since I saw 2-3 players who were bringing angel stax itself, I decided to tweak it and try skeggis sideboard just to be different in a way.
List
24 lands
4 ancient tomb
3 city of traitors
6 plains
2 plateau
3 wasteland
3 mishras factory
3 flagstones
4 mox diamond
3 exalted angel
4 magus of the tabernacle
4 trinisphere
4 chalice
3 smokestack
2 O.ring
4 armageddon
4 ghostly prison
4 crucible of worlds
Sideboard
2 ajani vengeant
3 supression field
2 O ring
3 defense grid
3 sphere of resistance
2 battlegrace angel
Round 1 Angel stompy
G1
I draw 7, I draw 5 lands 2 armageddons, I have no Idea why I didnt mulligan here, I thought it was not such a bad match up...I draw into more lands... I lose.
G2
I draw 7, and no land, I mulligan to 6, 1 land.. I assume that i would get more lands after a while and never drew into anything. After a silver knight and priest does some beat down, I finally drew into tomb, and a wasteland, but then I couldn't use the tomb as everytime I did use it, I took another 2. I o ring priest, his silver knight stands by. My mishra stands by, wastelands mana not being used just incase S. knight attacks. I draw into another tomb.I now have a magus and chalice in hand. I chalice for 1 to make sure he doesnt stp my magus. He top decks seal.I putdown magus, he seals chalice,stps magus. I lose eventually.
0-2 Bad start..
Round 2 Ichorid
G1
1st turn chalice at 1 stalls the game.trinisphere and smokestack lock after
G2
He puts down a land,I put down a sphere of resistance, then chalice for zero, then ghostly prison.
2--2.. Im catching up.
ROund 3 Spring tide
G1, chalice for 1 stalls the game, trinisphere and smokestack lock after.
G2, I play sphere of resistance.. then trinsphere, smokestack lock after.
4-2
Round 4 Epic storm
G1,
He starts with 2 lotus petals and 2 lions eye pass., I start with trinisphere, then I beat down with angel. He wasn't able to go around angel and g.prisons in time.As I think he was hoping for a emtpy the warrens kill.
G2,
He plays lions eye and petal, I play sphere of resistance,and chalice at zero, he plays shattering spree and gets to make 12 tokens the next turn. I lose
G3
I start with a god hand, and since I am starting, I put down chalice for zero, put down city of traitors, and then chalice for 1. He smiles and thinks he is doomed but maybe he can still go around it. He plays a land then passes. Next turn I drop a trinisphere. He scoops.
6-3
Round 5 Faeri stompy
G1
I finish the game by baiting force of wills with angels and then armageddon with ghostly prison in play and smokstack.
G2
I get land screwed and wasn't able to get any white mana.
G3
I get mana screwed and didn't get my 3rd land in time. Sea drake was kicking my butt while waiting for the 3rd mana. It was too late when it did come around.
7-5 overall
Over all the deck played quite well, Combo decks mostly fold to this deck and its still quite awesome to play.
It is quite hard to play vs. single creatures with equipment as they get around ghostly prison..
The splash of red wasn't fully utilized since I mostly faced combo players. Battle grace was supposed to be an alternative against red based decks like burn.
Pithing needle is quite important to the deck, defense grids could probably be cut to 2.
Hi all!
In my last champs with the W. Stax, the scores are beater me: 3-2, 3-3, 2-3.... against aggro decks!
I cant believe in this results... beatdown decks are weak facing the sta, but, the reality is other for me....
Please, I need help for a HEAVY aggro (elfs, goblins, soldiers, ENTS (?!?!)....) metagame.
Here is my actual test-list:
6x Plains
3x Wasteland
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
3x Flagstones of Trokair
3x Mishra's Factory
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Kor Haven
Artifacts:
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Trinisphere
4x Mox Diamond
4x Crucible of Worlds
3x Smokestack
White:
4x Ghostly Prison
4x Armageddon
4x Magus of the Tabernacle
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2x Cataclism
SIDEBOARD:
4x Defense Grid
4x Supression Field
3x Oblivion Ring
3x Rule of Law
1x Windborn Muse
I have a question: what you think: - 1 Magus, -1 Cataclism or Elspeth and +2 Wrath of god...... or windborn muses...... silent arbiter.... put angels in Main deck... for tell the true, I dont make any idea.... the meta is too heavy beatdown.... Uusing my RB goblin I can make 7-0.... 6-1......
Comments PLEASEEE!
Tnx,
Lammina
exalted angel is a very good card against aggro decks and beat down strats in general.
i play geddon stacks in an aggro heavy meta to and there are a few thing you can do play-style wise as-well.
dont use ancient tomb if it wont clearly effect the gamestate in your favor
life is very relevant in these games ( countless time where i have stablized and gone on to win at 2-8 life)
(pretty much prision/magus/geddon/cuicible only)
chalice and trinisphere outside of a turn 1-2 play get played after prison/magus/angel.
Dude, if aggro is such a heavy percentage of your metagame, just make room for 4 Windborn Muse and 4 Mishra's Factory
If 8 Prison effect + 4-5 Tabernacle effects and a crap load of land destruction can't screw over the aggro decks you play, nothing can.
As for me, I never really had problems with swarm aggro. Aggro decks I hate to face are those that tend to rely on 1-2 creatures to finish the game as they can play around ghostly prison most of the time.
Although back last month in the GP I took top 7th spot and I had 3 wrath of gods in my side board as I knew it was going to be aggro heavy. So I guess you can start by putting angels back in and adding creature control on the sideboard...
I wouldn't really suggest windborn muse , Although they do delay the game for a time, they are just to easy to kill. Silent arbiter may do better . Wrath of god on the sideboard will help you a lot as well.
We also just need to learn how to mulligan to the right cards at times...
f|i[p] and i where in that same tournament but i finished with a 2-3 record, the meta was black - discard/control/aggro & affinity a few combos which f|i[p] had played against lucky dude hahaha joke f|i[p].
1st or 2nd turn thoughtsize and extirpate hurts alot and almost cripples the decks defenses.
well just for me but having 2-3 exalted angel / battlegrace angel / or any creatures would be great than having magus and mishra alone.
The idea of Ajani is that you keep tapping this creature until Ajani hits 7 Loyalty and then blows all his land; then Ghostly Prison is effective :wink:. Still, 9th place is not that bad :smile:.Quote:
Originally Posted by f|i[p]
Stompy decks in general I always find a tough match because they don't have problems with Chalice or Trinisphere, and use double lands and Moxes themselves, so they also recover from an Armageddon pretty fast. They also only need 1 creature to seal the deal and are therefor not hindered that much by Ghostly Prison.Quote:
Originally Posted by f|i[p]
I think he hoped he could have Echoing Truthed your Chalices. When Trinisphere dropped, it wouldn't matter :smile:. Well done :wink:.Quote:
Originally Posted by f|i[p]
I think you're right about Pithing Needle though, it's awesome. So much better than Suppression Field that also screws your Wastelands and Mishra's Factories. If you're keeping the red splash you may want to consider Boil (more and more decks these days play blue). It's more versatile than Defense Grid, and really fits the gameplan (Trinisphere + Defense Grid =/= combo).Quote:
Originally Posted by f|i[p]
It seems you have had quite some mana problems. What I usually do is shuffle extensively, after that I check if the mana is nicely spread throughout the deck. If it's still all piled up I shuffle some more extensively. If it looks ok, I shuffle a bit and hand my deck to my opponent so he/she can cut it. In general this avoids getting screwed or flooded. But sometimes I'm lazy and I forget, and then I can end up being screwed or flooded.
@Lammina: In aggro meta's I've found Windborn Muse to be shot down at first sight, but she's worth a try at least. If your meta indeed is so insanely aggro, you may indeed want to conside Wrath of God; however I use Powder Kegs myself.
@ skeggi
9th place isn't that bad, but there were a few matches where I think I could have won if I wasn't mana screwed.. Hahaha you just don't get to get over those matches or well I may call it play mistake since I probably should have made sure that my cards were shuffled very well.. But hence it was still fun to play..
Yes it will seem that stompy variants are a problem to this deck, specially those that rely on flying creatures...
P.Needles are very important in the sideboard indeed. S. fields are good for delaying but,P. needles would have just done so much better than S. field. I may replace S. fields entirely.
As for the red splash, I was actually looking to sideboard boil, but I did the splash last minute and borrowed some ajani's and tried to look for some boil's which I thought I had, but didn't eventually.
Not I'm not sure what the red splash had to offer, yet.. and I'm not convinced but it was quite good to be slightly different from other stax lists .. Maybe I'll try a different color next time around...I'm still crossing my fingers for Wb stax...
I think the red splash is worth a longer look than just splashing for vengeants and then leaving it at that...then again I just tried to think of good red cards to maybe include and drew a blank.
On the topic of prisons versus ensnaring bridges: I always thought that allowing your opponent to make decisions in many cases allows for more errors to be made on their part and greater advantage than forcing their hand. Needless to say though something is missing from 'geddon stax because while the deck seems to show up a decent amount according to deckcheck anyway and puts out commendable finishes, but not nearly enough first places, something needs to be fixed. Maybe some sort of splash is what is needed. Bridge could be the answer too maybe, but it seems like too simple of a solution.
I noticed that a list that placed sixth runs two Elspeths. Did he do up a report anywhere?
http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showp...&postcount=930Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordel
lost track on my sideboarding though, shouldn't have touched the beer...
Heh, thanks for the link. I already read that report, but I must have had a few drinks when I read it or something because I failed to connect the dots.
Liquor and decks that require patience don't combine well in my experience either, though stimulants do strangely enough...weird.
A splash may always be worth testing all the time. I'm not sure, I seem to be always looking for a more lock oriented but at the same time be able to finish the games in time.
As for ensnaring bridge, it has its pro's and con's. You'll have to sacrifice the early game for a better late game. It will give you problems with goblins maybe even elves as well as empty the warrens . With it you will also be more vulnerable to artifact hate, since most red decks always have a shattering spree in the sideboard. One more thing I don't like about bridge is that you are kinda forced to over commit with your hand. Means you'll have to put everything down as fast as you can.
Ghostly will save you from swarm aggro but not from singleton creatures.
I still think ghostly prison is a safer way to go about it still...but It can also be a metagame call.
At the Dutch Championships someone played a Stax build with Elspeth + Humility. Apparently that worked good (he didn't top8 though). I'll try and get a hand on the list.
The player seems to have been Mr. Sebastiaan or something to that effect. Dr.Doom here posted his tournament report in the FS thread and seemed to have played against Elspeth Geddon Stax round 1.
No, the player with the deck I'm referring to is called Marcel I think.
Edit: I checked, the player was Marcel Gelissen and had an Elspeth-Humility-Replenish build. Seems very interesting. I still need to get a decklist...
That list sounds pretty interesting based on that description for sure.
With the whole Bridge versus Prison thing, I don't really think it is an all or nothing sort of situation. Obviously ring has more applications than just stopping creatures, but for anecdotal purposes: a lot of guys run three of them...drop them for bridges and you are running bridges and prisons, which is absolute overkill, but still, this will make the deck in some matches have effectively six to eight prisons and in others you will have some fodder for stacks in the worst case scenario.
I wasn't really ever considering removing prisons. The problem this archetype might be facing is enthusiasts's resistance to change. Time and testing will tell I suppose.
Hello,
Yesterday ive played against a dragon stompy deck, and i can't seem to win, does anybody has hard time winning against deck it while using geddonstax ?
If you don't draw anyspot removal cards like oblivion ring double strike creatures like rakdos pit dragon kills everything in its path and with no way to stop krosan grip oblivion ring is almost no use.
Does geddonstax have another ways to deal with decks that also uses the following cards:
- Mox Diamond / Chrome Mox
- Ancient Tomb / City of Traitors / Crystal Vein
- Trinishpere
- Chalice of the Void
- Decks that has a mana curve of 3 up that uses mana accelerants
thanks
It's really difficult for Armageddon Stax to handle single threats with huge churizos (Dreadnoughts, Tombstalkers, Goyfs and Dragons).
Dragon Stompy is particularly difficult because we have no lockpiece available that would be able to counter their strategy, our most common turn 1 play is useless against them and the only solution that we currently have is Oblivion Ring.
Your only chance is to try and stop early ass crackers (ie. Rakdos, Arcslogger, Raiders) via O-Ring or Chalice for 0. If your running Ajani or Elspeth they could probably prevent Rakdos and Raiders from doing lethal damage. Arcslogger on the other hand can only be handle by O-Ring. So what you need to do is aggressively mulligan for the right cards. If you'll be able to handle early threats then there is a good chance that you'll be able to establish board control. DStompy players usually exhaust their hands in the first few turns, so you need to concentrate on surviving those turns.
BTW, your talking about DStompy with a green splash?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragzz
yes, DStompy with a light splash of green for krosan grip and primal fury
other decks that utilizies ancient tomb and city of traitors i find it hard to beat them maybe thats why i seldom win against angel stompy :laugh:
I've played a fair share against Dragon Stompy, it's one of my teammate's favourite deck. I've also won a fair share. The key is to side out all Trinispheres and Chalices. You really don't need them in this MU. You should side in anything that could help; Tabernacle if you have it, Suppression Field (against Jitte and Rakdos Pit Dragon), Oblivion Rings, Exalted Angels, even Moats help. Whatever you have it's probably better than Trinisphere or Chalice.
One other thing I've found out about the Humility-Elspeth-Replenish build: it's creatureless. But I guess that was to be expected with Humility :smile:.
I never played against dragon stompy players so I really wouldn't have an idea. Although in all match ups.. single pumped up creature decks; you would like an ideal hand, meaning you would want to establish a real fast lock via smokestack or delay the game enough for you to establish board control. Other than that it will be hard quite hard to win because there is always a way around ghostly prison...
I'm actually very interested in the build with humility in it, I want to focus more on the lock, meaning taking off the angels and focusing on prison instead...Meaning really serving the decks main purpose which is prison...
The only problem I find in focusing on the lock is finishing on time...
I still haven't recieved Marcel's list, but I have contacted him via e-mail. If I were to make a Humility-Elspeth-Replenish build it would look something like this:
Dutch Stax (I feel it branches out from the Armageddon Stax archetype and creates a new one; since I basically stole the concept from a fellow Dutchman, I guess Dutch Stax would be most politically correct :wink:)
Obviously, this deck would have extra vulnerability versus Krosan Grip and Gaddock Teeg; a possible sideboard could look like this:Code:Planeswalkers
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Enchantments
3 Humility
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Ghostly Prison
Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
2 Smokestack
4 Mox Diamond
4 Crucible of Worlds
Sorceries
4 Armageddon
1 Ravages of War
1 Replenish
Lands
3 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
1 Kor Haven
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Plateau
7 Plains
A slightly different build:Code:Sideboard
3 Pithing Needle
4 Powder Keg (possible Teeg Killer)
2 Boil
2 Ajani Vengeant
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Replenish (post Grip reviver)
Dutch Stax (with Moats)
Code:Planeswalkers
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Enchantments
3 Moat
3 Humility
4 Oblivion Ring
Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Smokestack
4 Mox Diamond
4 Crucible of Worlds
Sorceries
4 Armageddon
1 Ravages of War
1 Replenish
Lands
3 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
1 Kor Haven
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Plateau
7 Plains
Code:Sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
4 Powder Keg (possible Teeg Killer)
3 Boil
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Replenish (post Grip reviver)
Ideas? Please shoot :smile:
Would Hanna's Custody be a decent SB card? I mean, I know it doesn't protect your enchantments, but it's the right casting cost, 2W, and it protects the majority of your permanents from removal. Thoughts? Maybe as a 2-of.
Hanna's Custody is not worth it because a) you have to get to a point where you have a decent board full of artifacts and your opponent has actually drawn a removal to make it useful at all, b) it doesn't protect you from sweepers like Pernicious Deed and c) what do you take out?
Hanna's Custody isn't required to be played after you've already unloaded your artifacts. Hanna's Custody can be played before you've played any artifacts. It would be there to combat your opponent's sideboard hate of Grips, Sprees, R&R, etc... Just a thought. Having a DS player be able to R&R away two of your best artifacts sucks.