Printable View
Silence is one of the best parts of TES.
With cutting Rainbow lands and Rite of flame you lose the fast Thing for TES.
For playing Artifacts Land, you lose the concistant thing of ANT.
that seems very bad.
Mox Opal is not better with the Lands. You Need 3 Artifacts and you haven't them all the time..
Rite of Flame give you +2 or more red mana. Mox Opal not...
Rite of Flame allowed you to Play 4 BW.
BW whitout rite of flame seems bad...that meens you lose again concistants.
cutting RoF does not mean you can make the deck slower, it is backwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pdingo
I put Mox Opal instead of RoF, and in first turns and unless you have 2 in hand 1 Mox opal will be +1 exact as equal as RoF, the difference is that:
- You need metalcraft - assumed.
- M.Opal provides mana of whatever color
- M.Opal costs 0
a Hand like:
Opal, LED, I.Tutor, Seat, D.Ritual, Brainstorm, Braintorm.
will be always quicker than if you substitute Opal by RoF.
Also, Silence is good but Therapy is not bad either...
Simple.
I'm coming back to ANT after a long time and am interested in the current sb perspective. This is what I am running right now and I don't really like it.
Sidebaord:
Abrupt Decay X4
Carpet of Flowers X3
Pyroclasm X3
Chain of Vapor X3
Past in Flames X1
Empty the Warrens X1
I bring the AD in vs CB, I bring the Carpets in vs BUG. I use the Pyroclams vs Thalia/Hate bears. Chain kind of goes in by default in most game 2. 1 PIF for control and the ETW if I am nervous about needing a second win con. My testing has been limited though as I just picked up teh deck again, can I get some general insights on the boards and mu analayis that people are looking at these days?
Thanks!
defector
Carpets side in against BUG are wrong because they have other Options instead of Islands.
Side it in only against RUG and maybe Miracle because they Need blue against you.
I think you have to much pernament hate..you can probably cut the 1-3 clasm and 1 chain of vapor for Cards like Dark confidant and Ignorant Bliss against discard.
You don't Need a Second PiF...
My current SB:
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Bayou
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Ignorant Bliss
1 Karakas
1 Massacre
1 Dread of Night
1 Cabal Therapy
About the Mox Opal ideas:
I too think we should play either 4x Seat or 4x Vault. 4x Seat could work in ANT, 4x Vault could work in TES (but then we need to cut a few cantrips, because we lose the ability to consistently cast them). Since the cantrips make TES the dangerous beast it is, that seems bad. I have been tinkering with two approaches now: one ANTish list and one sort of Belcherless Storm.
ANTish
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
2 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual /18
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Ponder
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Infernal Tutor
2 Ad Nauseam
1 Tendrils of Agony /21
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy /7
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Underground Sea
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest /14
Cantripless Storm
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual.
4 Rite of Flame /24
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
2 Ad Nauseam
1 Empty the Warrens /18
4 Duress
2 Thoughtseize /6
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Badlands
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta /12
This last one with some additional discard on side to battle blue decks.
I have to add that I don't believe in either list so far, but they deserve more testing.
@Asthereal:
I really do think we should need to use both Vault and Seat.
The concept of parity is perfectly suitable with 12 lands (8 of them Artifact which can produce U or B) + Opal which acts as 4 Underground,
The unique problem is that you will need to choose to play Vault OR Seat, which is more difficult as tree decisión.
But assuming you'll have most of the times mana from Mox opal we are building a great deck.
In testing, I was really surprised with the results, it is even quicker than TES and has the same protection and is more reliable to win Post A.N.
I really find the deck quite difficult to play as the Decission tree is bigger, you'll need to evaluate if playing seat OR vault, have in mind if playing down petal to gain mana from opal, etc.
Edit: The base for me is ok as I made it, maybe I could add 1 A-N instead of Empty but not sure.
The side has been changing from the Testing moment, but looks like:
1 Reprocess
1 D.Returns
1 IGG
***No PiF
1 Eye of nowhere
1 Empty
...
@Bahamut, if you are by there could you give us your opinión?
Sorry guys, but do you really think a situational mana-source (pre-ad nauseam) which nets you +1 mana at it's best (not even sure) is worth it to rape your mana base... I can't understand what I am reading here.
@DarkJester
Completly agree, first it was intresting to test a list like this.
But i have to say it's just bad.
Cabal ritual are a lot stronger and preordrain are a lot more important.
Cutting basic lands for artifact lands seems completly wrong.
@Pdingo: Thanks for the advice, ill test some of those changes!
Got 17th in baltimore with this burning wish version.
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Infernal Tutor
3 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Brainstorm
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
SB:
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Past in Flames
1 Ill-Gotten Games
1 Thoughtseize
1 Pyroclasm
1 Shattering Spree
3 Dark Confidant
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Chain of Vapor
Normally I would have played TES but I was expecting a fair bit of Esper and Shardless BUG so I wanted to play ANT with Bobs. Deck performed very well, my losses probably could have been avoided with better mulligans and tighter play.
Congratulations!
Love to see Wish versions putting up awesome results.
Did you ever use that Shattering Spree? I play EchoingRuin in that slot. Never liked Meltdown. Never try edSpree in ANT.
I'm afraid we don't have the same definition of an awesome result.
I only wanted to post the list because this thread has been dead. Shattering Spree interacts better with counterspells, chalice and trinisphere, not to mention multiple pieces of hate at once.
Sorry but shattering spree is just too optimistic... You are running very few red sources. And investing petals in using spree is not the best idea. The main match ups where you want spree normally run wastelands (i.e. against decks running trinisphere, chalice of the void, being maybe the most relevance), this means that you need to expose one of your 2 non basic red lands in order to play BW, giving the chance to wasteland it. This results in being very difficult to play the replicate of the spree. For thismatter Meltdown seems simply better for ANT build if you want a wish target that can deal with artifacts.
Greetings,
Iñaki.-
Paying 4 mana to kill a trinisphereis not really ideal, or 4 mana to kill a thorn of amethyst. Against decks with 3balls I will gladly crack an LED to spree more things. Also meltdown doesn't come in foil.
...period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Gatz
Iñaki.-
Just pointing out that Chain of vapor + 0cc permanents was always one of my favorite storm engines. That might be relevant with this most recent improvement to Mox opal.
Fuck Chain of Vapor in a Mox Opal list.
Repeal + Mox Opal is a free cantrip. Most lists with artifact Lands and Opal have 3+ mana turn 2 so you can eot bounce crap like hatebears, counterbalance and go off. Opal lists should play Repeal and Probe for insane PIF's
Fuck Mox opal?l lol
Or this way round ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Pdingo
Wasn't able to break Opal even with Grim Monolith. That crap all turns Storm into Belcher which isn't desireable