Printable View
Ok, I will try finding one more mutavault and remove those fetches. How about landcount? are 20 lands allright?
My meta does not have many vial decks, there used to be many goblins, but I dont know where they've gone.
in what MU would board in Sower???
@Sadakiyo: I'll try to address all your points:
1. If you're having trouble managing your life loss, cut your Fetchlands. Dismember is good in the mirror, but you have to know when to fire it and when to spend that mana bettering your board, or swinging with a Mutavault.
2. Dismember is good against Forgemaster, and Pierce is okay. But the matchup can still be pretty frightening. I find that Energy Flux is just too much of an Oops I Win card in this matchup not to run, and the splash hate it carries for Affinity and Thopter Foundry is pretty nice also. Though if I didn't expect to see the deck, I obviously wouldn't pack the E-Flux. The match is winnable without it. But it isn't easy.
3. Sower is a monster in the mirror, good against anything packing Emrakul, and good against any large guys you just can't deal with (Knight of the Reliquary, Terravore, etc.) That said, the curve is pretty high.
4. Standstill is quite viable in Merfolk. Whether people use it or not kind of depends on how they play the deck. Standstill lists tend to try to press a small resource edge to out-swarm the opponent or keep them from stabilizing. Non-Standstill lists are balls to the wall aggro that try to win by countering the right things at the right time. In certain metagames it's unnecessary, and in certain metagames it's golden. I do think the deck is much harder to play without Standstill. I feel like the margin for error in combat math and what lands to play in what order is quite miniscule, and countering the wrong thing is catastrophic. And often a tiny unnoticed mistake is the difference in getting in the last couple points of damage.
Very nice explanation sir Taco, I too find it quite difficult playing merfolk without standstill as I have to make a tougher decision in what hand to keep (Especially the one without counters). With standstill, I always get a safer-feeling since it draws me 3 cards. Even if it gets countered, at least I still have to keep my other business spell and my opponent lose a counter from his hand. Without standstill, I would get an "ouch" if my business spell got countered.
But I guess, standstill or standstill-less list is all about preference, meta call and play style.
I don't play much merfolk and instead I played more with dredge. That's why I want to know about certain cards selection and what cards to use against certain deck.
My meta is quite varied since there are some dudes who can build any deck they want. But lately, more stoneforge deck made some resurgence in my meta.
But one thing for sure is: goblin is quite non-existent here.
Here is the breakdown of my last meta
2 affinity
2 merfolk
1 deadguy
1 UW landstill
1 forgemaster-MUD
1 mono white stoneforge
1 Zoo
1 Dredge
1 Countertop
1 Enchantress
Seems to me like Propaganda looks pretty hot in that meta. I count about 8 out of 12 of those decks that it would hit pretty well.Quote:
Originally Posted by sadakiyo
Also, just as a general question for everyone, I've noticed that just about no one seems to play Propaganda anymore, and I was kind of wondering the reason why not. It seems to me like it was more justifiable having Llawan, Cephalid Empress in the board before Dismember gave us a more flexible way to answer that ho-bag. To me, it seems like Propaganda could pretty well eat up one or two of these "mirror match" types of slots in the sideboard, because it has wide applications outside of just tribal. Any match that just devolves into a straight-out creature race is helped out by this card, although it does kind of suck that the turn you cast it you usually are not going to also develop your own board position (besides maybe laying a Mutavault or something). I always hear comments about how the metagame is slowing down and becoming more about 'fair' creature-based strategies... Which certainly makes Propaganda sound awesome on paper. Anyhow, food for thought?
As far as Standstill, I personally still am not running it anymore, but I can see why some folks stick to it, especially in the MMS metagame. I certainly never found that it made the deck any easier to pilot though, in fact I'd probably argue for the opposite. But I guess it's just a play-style issue perhaps...
I know that I rarely post here, but it's still true that Merfolk is my baby. It's the deck I have the most testing with, and the deck I have the most fun playing. It's a mono-colored deck that has so many answers, which is mostly in part to being blue and in legacy. That being said, I honestly don't understand the lack of Propaganda out of the board of Fish decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght
If the mirror has become "I drew Llawan, Cephalid Empress, did you draw Dismember?" from either side, then why would we not at least try to include the enchantment in our boards? In an ideal game of Turn 1 Aether Vial, Turn 2 Standstill, a Turn 3 Propaganda couldn't hurt much. Even in the event of Turn 1 Mutavault, Turn 2 Silvergill Adept, Turn 3 Propaganda, it isn't terrible. It's also a card that doesn't hurt to be drawn mid game, which is harder to say for Dismember against other decks where Propaganda is good, for instance, decks packing burn. I'd like to see Infect-Stompy have the mana to swing with multiple creatures. If nothing else, it makes decks have to make tough choices, leading to mistakes, which Merfolk, as a deck, thrives upon.
Very few lists are running Echoing Truth these days, and I feel I might have been the only one in Providence packing sideboard Wipe Aways, or any way to deal with Enchantments at all, aside from having the counter magic when my opponent didn't.
On the topic of Standstill, I love the card and I always will, but I feel like its days are numbered in this deck. On the draw, expect to see your opponent drop a Stoneforge Mystic on or before hiser turn two. This deck has some trouble if they grab a Batterskull, and even moreso if they grab a Sword of Fire and Ice.
tl;dr - Propaganda is great when the mirror packs little to no ways to deal with it. Most lists have Dismember as an answer to the standard sideboard tech of Llawan, Cephalid Empress. Few lists pack any bounce, and no lists pack any other form of enchantment disruption. Propaganda also doesn't hurt you any, whereas 4 life can potentially be crucial. In matchups where Dismember is good, Propaganda seems much better.
I've been using propaganda against mirror, goblins, dredge and affinity. It comes as a surprise especially against dredge and affinity. They usually expect different sideboard cards to come from merfolk players. These decks have only little mana resources to pay for propaganda. Has anyone tested propaganda against zoo and maverick? I've tried it against fast zoo pre-misstep , it wasn't that amazing. I usually ended up dying to straight up burn.
I'll be trying Propaganda for some Daily Events. Sounds promosing.
On another topic: If you could devote 3-4 cards to exclusively fight SFM/Batterskull in the sideboard - which cards would you chose?
Reality Ripple - Under the current rules, phasing out the token permanently exiles Batterskull. This could be used anytime when they are tapped out. It's also somewhat useful against other permanents as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
Thanks for the input. I completly forget about those weird Phasing rules.
Besides that, in which other matchups do you consider RR a useful card?
Spell Snare has more value across the field than RRipple. In all other MUs Ripple is worse than a bounce spell. And now for the terrible suggestions segment; Torpor Orb could be used but it hits your Silvergills as well and doesnt stop Mystic from paying 1W to cheat Equips. Splash for Titania's Song!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
I tried Spell Snare but you're much less likely to have it against turn2 SFM. Lateron it usually doesnt accomplish a lot. That said, it's of course way more versatile.
Do you guys think that Waterfront Bouncer might warrant play now, as a sideboard card?
Hello again!
Thanks to everyone who has commented on my list, this is what I decided on (to begin with);
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
3 Mutavault
4 Island
4 Aether Vial
4 Silvergill Adept
3 Cursecatcher
2 Sejiri Merfolk
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Mental Misstep
3 Swords to Plowshares
Sideboard
3 Spell Pierce
2 Submerge
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Energy Flux
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Rule of Law
I think splashing white is worthwhile since StoP is better than Dismember IMO
(no life loss and the creature gets removed from the game), white also gives you much more choices for the sideboard.
My sideboard is a mess, I know. I always play an E Tutor sideboard in UW Tempo and I see no reason why it wouldn't work in this deck to, it gives you sooo much more options. I don't normally play that much one offs but I have no idea of the meta and I've never played this deck so... I still would like to fit in a Jitte but I don't know what to cut, maybe -1 Spell Pierce +1 Jitte?
If someone whit experience is around there's still a couple of hours time to save me from embarrassing my self and the archtype :)
About propaganda, it is indeed a good card and it won me mirror match and dredge a while ago. I always remembered how my opponent's face grinned seeing that card cause he wasnt expecting it :).
Questions are:
is propaganda useful against zoo, affinity and maverick? I know maverick and zoo has big creatures and they can always swing with only one big creature instead of swarm of creatures.
There is one guy in the Bazaar of Moxen event who brought 3 propagandas in his SB, and I recall his finish was quite high.
I've been using propaganda against affinity for quite a while now, it has never failed me. You must be wary of Tezzeret, agent of bolas though, since he can kill us in one swing once they amass a number of artifacts.Quote:
Originally Posted by sadakiyo
I don't think Waterfront Bouncer warrants play unless you're in a metagame made of Emrakuls, especially now that Dismember gets rid of most ordinary-sized dudes.
@Spell Snare: I really don't see the hype here. I get that, in theory, it hits almost all of the cards Merfolk fears the most. The problem, however, is that as a Merfolk player I don't want to leave my mana untapped any more than I have to.
@Reality Ripple: Think of it as Echoing Truth, just without the part about being good against creature tokens. It's good any time there are permanents you can't deal with. In most cases outside of the weird Phasing >> Living Weapon instances, Reality Ripple's just worse than Echoing Truth. Making them repay the mana and making them go through the risk of having their spell countered is fantastic.
The only exception is in certain matchups where you have to worry about both problematic permanents and removal, because Reality Ripple is almost always better for saving your guys than Echoing Truth, for the same reason it's worse at bouncing the opponents' permanents. So against a deck that ran both Ensnaring Bridge (Merfolk's ultimate scary card) and Swords to Plowshares, Reality Ripple would offer you the same chance at an alpha strike as Echoing Truth, but be a hair more efficient at saving your Merfolk. However, since the only deck I know of that runs both of these cards also runs Thopter Foundry, Echoing Truth's probably still the better option in that scenario.
So basically, Reality Ripple's almost always going to be worse than Echoing Truth, but not by much. And it's way, way, way better against Stoneforge Mystic and Batterskull.
Yeah. Echoing Truth is the best bounce for Merfolk (and Submerge in the sideboard). Waterfront Bouncer is really only good as a one-of in a deck that you can tutor for him. For example, some Survival builds would run him before their deck got banned. Merfolk doesn't have any good tutor effects and Bouncer is not so good in multiples because of the card disadvantage.
Hi Guys and Gals,
I'm having an issue with not being able to decide what to MB / SB. There are simply too many good options and I'm not sure if a dedicated approach or an all comers list is more appropriate. Let me start by saying I have 0, and I mean 0 idea what my meta looks like. Just finally getting back into Legacy from a hiatus playing purely Goblins before. Giving the Folk a try this go around.
I have your typical Core setup in the MD in the following:
4 Cursecatcher
4 LOA
4 Reejerey
4 Coralhelm
4 Silvergil adept
1 Kira
1 Merfolk Sovereign
4 Vial
4 FOW
4 MM
3 Daze
2 Dismember
13 island
4 mutavault
4 wasteland
SB:
2 pithing needle
2 Llawan
2 echoing truth
1 Relic of Prog
1 Surgical Extract
3 submerge
3 spell pierce
1 dismember
Am I just all over the place at this point? Or would this be acceptable for an unknown Meta. I hate to not bring anything relatively new to the discussion however with the tourneys I plan on attending too soon I should be able to hopefully bring some value.
Thanks in advance.
What do you think about splashing black for playing massacre in sb and making more avaliable the pairing againts Maverick ?
I also considered going back to Ub Merfolk for a sb mixturere of Perish/Virtue's Ruin. It however just feels so bad to both play Perish and Virtue's Ruin. Massacre hits all their small stuff while not dealing with Thrun, Goyf, KotR, Batterskull etc.
You'd have to run 21, better 22 lands which for me means dropping 2 Kira from the main (20 Lands, 2 Daze, 3 Force, 2 Sovereign right now). Might still be worth it considering the Splash Damage Perish/VRuin do to Elves and anything with Progenitus. Assuming Elves is big in your area. Going into a major tournament (read: GP Amsterdam) Elves shouldn't be a real deck to prepare your sb for. So...I don't know yet whether I really want to be splashing black again.