Well this might be random, but are you coming down in about a month for Seattle again Matt? it's April 21st for Legacy Sunday. Sorry for the randomness!
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Well this might be random, but are you coming down in about a month for Seattle again Matt? it's April 21st for Legacy Sunday. Sorry for the randomness!
Of course I am, so I can have vindication and beat you in the finals, of course! This time, I'll be ready :)
-Matt
If we both made that again that'd be epic as heck!
Out of curiosity, have you changed your list much since last time as the metagame flows along? I myself have basically the same list, other than like 1 or 2 cards moved around. The deck never really changes though anyhow at it's core it's the same always.
This. I haven't really played Junk in a while, but if I did, I wouldn't play SFM with Souls. I've had way too many draws myself. I'd probably play something with 3 GSZ, 3 Knight, 2-3 Souls, 2 Jitte instead, coupled with some ways to quickly break stalemates (and destroy life totals) like Elspeth and Garruk Wildspeaker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
So, essentially my list? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by .Ix
I haven't really changed it THAT much, no.Quote:
Out of curiosity, have you changed your list much since last time as the metagame flows along? I myself have basically the same list, other than like 1 or 2 cards moved around. The deck never really changes though anyhow at it's core it's the same always.
-Matt
Actually, it's almost the same, yes :)Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
I tried to find your list in the last 5 pages but I didn't see it. If your list looks like that then yeah, probably. Without Goyfs though since I don't like or have Goyfs. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Well, yes, but I mean that Rest in Peace itself is popping up in a lot of sideboards lately. The likes of UWx Blade Control seem to be using it more and any deck with white is very likely to have it in the sideboard, such as Death and Taxes. These decks are also likely to have a swarm of x/1's as well, which makes two modes of Golgari Charm very viable.Quote:
Popularity of RIP/Helm, you mean?
-Matt
Overall, Golgari Charm allows you to both hate on opposing swarms while having more options than just Abrupt Decay or Pulse to hit the Rest in Peace, letting those spells hit higher priority targets like Counter Balance or Jace.
Also, you can snipe a Dream Halls, Omniscience, or Sneak Attack with the Charm. I'm not entirely sure if this would be a good card to bring in anyway, but worth mentioning.
For those running less than 4 StP, do you ever feel softer to other midrange, grindy decks? Also, do you ever feel softer versus those decks that are lighter on threats (pretty much any tempo deck, or even control decks)? Against other grindy decks, especially Jund, I feel like I want 10x StP in those games. How are people going to 2-3x StP?
I'm at 3 STP and I notice a slight difference for sure. I want 4, but I can't have it all in magical Christmas land.
My list is as follows:
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
2 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sylvan Library
3 Lingering Souls
--BOARD--
2 Golgari Charm
2 Stony Silence
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Duress
1 Elspeth, knight Errant
1 Sigarda/Elspeth/Humility
-Matt
Actually, the only time I ever miss that 4th StP is against big ass creatures I need to deal with (ie, Sneaky Show, Reanimator, Nic Fit).Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
Against the other midrange decks, Abrupt Decay is better since you'll hit almost everything relevant anyways. Against Jund, they only thing AD can't hit is BBE which our guys should generally outclass in a fight anyways.
Just as we do, Jund also runs discard, so hoping AD gets there isn't enough always. I always liked that Junk's StP > Jund's Bolt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Esper3k
I used to play 3 StP, but I decided to play 4 A.D. and 4 StP. I think it's just a matter of preference.
Sure, but the issue there is just having more removal in general, not specifically that 4th StP. Like against Jund, if I could run a 7 AD's instead of 3 StP / 4 AD, I'd rather do so, for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
I've been running
3 Liliana
3 STP
3 AD
2 Maelstrom Pulse
STP and AD overlap a bit, but largely the important things to hit that can really screw you over are things that only Maelstrom can hit, like Jace and Elspeth. I think you could avoid Maelstrom if you run Lingering Souls to take down those walkers, but I do not.
Oh, and I managed to get another answer from a judge about Chains/Sylvan Library. Not sure if its right but here's what they said:
Quote:
Sylvan Library only looks at the cards in your hand at the time it asks you to pay. So you'll have one card in hand, and it was drawn this turn, so Sylvan Library will ask you to pay for it or put it back.
Hi there!
About Golgari Charm vs. Zealous Persecution... is the versatility of the charm really better then the pure swingyness of the persecution? I see that Charm kills our own Tokens as well as Dark Confidant but can hit Sneak Attack, Rest in Peace and the random not-auto-win Omniscience (anything else I forgot about?). I don't have experience with either as I'm new to the deck. Can someone comment on this, please? :)
Also, how about Oblivion Ring as sideboard card against Show and Tell? Is this outdated?
I'd run 10x AD if I could, but in the grindy matchups, this is what we're dealing with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Esper3k
Punishing Fires Jund:
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Bolt
3 Punishing Fire
4 Abrupt Decay
That's 14 removal spells, 4 of which are Punishing Fire, making their actual total probably closer to 16-18 removal spells.
Compare that to our:
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Abrupt Decay
3 StP
3 Liliana of the Veil
That's 10 removal spells. This is without taking into account stuff like discard, etc.; just comparing removal suites only. As you can see, PFire Jund clearly outclasses us when it comes to the removal suite. As such, I've found in playtesting that they can simply outgrind me. The only trump we truly have is StP + Abrupt Decay ensures any creature, big or small, will die whereas Jund's Bolt + PFire doesn't do much versus a big fatty Goyf/KotR/pumped up Ooze/etc. Obviously, specific builds numbers will vary, but in general, PFires Jund will play more removal than we will.
EDIT: Btw, I'm running 4 Stp, 4 AD, 3 LotV as my removal package. That's 11 spells, but I'm still far behind PFire Jund.
Right, what I'm saying that it's not the StP itself that's important, it's simply having more removal. The StP could be PtE and it'd still be very helpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
Against Punishing Jund (which I think is the best version of Jund right now), we're not going to outremoval them so I believe we should be trying to do things that blank their removal, especially Punishing Fires. Cards like 'Goyf, Knight, Lingering Souls are typically more difficult for them to deal with. If I wanted something specifically for the Jund matchup, I'd pack Obstinate Baloth since that dude is fairly immune to most of their removal (and does the Standard Loxodon Smiter thing and comes down and crushes Liliana when they play her and +1 or you get to live the dream and drop his ass off of a Hymn).
But my point was how are people having removal, regardless of what it is, if they're cutting removal (in this case, StP). Also, cutting StP and adding another Pulse balances out theoretically, but against a discard deck with hasters and huge vital 2cc creatures, I'm not sure that is the right call. I'd much, much rather have StP than Pulse against Jund as Pulse can just be too slow.
I agree re: StP vs Pulse against Jund.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
I tend to like reusable removal myself so in Junk, I like Jittes especially in lists with Lingering Souls.