[Primer] R/G Lands

So, if this thread/forum is not dead (really, what happened to this thread? So many changes in legacy Lands and just one reply) I really would like to have some answer...
I had to find out (after one month) that Wren and Six is banned in legacy; so skip that :wink:
- Is Oko (and with Oko, play blue again) the new way to play Lands (because Oko is THE WAY to get rid of creatures...) or just an equal alternative to red with PF?
- If you replace PF and Gamble (so: red) with Oko, I understand why to play black then instead of red. But couldn't you include Entomb, Intuition or Tolaria West for tutoring (because Gamble is gone)? What about the good old Dark Confidant, if you play black? Or is this all really not needed?
- Is white, after we finally have our Enchant-Academy-Ruins, still no alternative?

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Originally Posted by OldSpellMaster

So, if this thread/forum is not dead (really, what happened to this thread? So many changes in legacy Lands and just one reply) I really would like to have some answer...

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Well, the thing is that almost everyone shifted to the discord server. It is more complicated to search for precise information, and thus the same questions are often posted again and again, but the answer are really fast and often of very good quality. Anyway, fact is that if you want some answer from good and actives Land (and Depths) players... well, you should go there.

Here's a link: https://discordapp.com/invite/AYJPM2d

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Originally Posted by OldSpellMaster

So, if this thread/forum is not dead (really, what happened to this thread? So many changes in legacy Lands and just one reply) I really would like to have some answer...
I had to find out (after one month) that Wren and Six is banned in legacy; so skip that :wink:
- Is Oko (and with Oko, play blue again) the new way to play Lands (because Oko is THE WAY to get rid of creatures...) or just an equal alternative to red with PF?
- If you replace PF and Gamble (so: red) with Oko, I understand why to play black then instead of red. But couldn't you include Entomb, Intuition or Tolaria West for tutoring (because Gamble is gone)? What about the good old Dark Confidant, if you play black? Or is this all really not needed?
- Is white, after we finally have our Enchant-Academy-Ruins, still no alternative?

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Hi!

I am on the discord server but hate the format and how discussions progress, would much rather stay on the Source.

Some answers!

Straight RG is still the de facto best list, streamlined and gives you the best matchups across the board.

Oko is very good but I would say meta dependent at this point. If you are going to play against Oko and midrange decks all day, oko and abrupt decay is tough to beat, but field of the dead is also pretty much unbeatable if you can get it running. Dave Long, the guy that first played oko, has already switched off of the card but has stayed RUG for sideboard cards. Entomb, Intuition, Tolaria west are all slower than the gamble alternative which is why, imho, gamble is superior. Gamble is good to tutor for sideboard cards turn 1 against bad matchups. I just gambled for Veil of Summer T1 when I didn't have the sphere to play... any other alternative tutor would be a dead card.

Heliod's Hall is generally considered to be too slow. I go back and forth with the card but can also say that in multiple events I have not activated the card once... Field of the dead has replaced the need for most other endgame options.

TLDR: Gamble is the best tutor option, Field of the Dead is an absolutely dumb magic card and people are moving to 2 copies in the 75 to be able to ensure the card goes "online"

the discord is very active, but so sad that the source is becoming irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

Seven is just a ridiculous number, maybe 3-4 different names and this would be playable.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

Field of the Dead is an absolutely dumb magic card and people are moving to 2 copies in the 75 to be able to ensure the card goes "online"

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yeah, it's a sweet card for control lands. i got my foils back in june.
if Oko isn't banned, U/G lists with sylvan library and 1 Sevinne's Reclamation along with Karakas is my go-to...

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Originally Posted by non-inflammable

the discord is very active, but so sad that the source is becoming irrelevant.

yeah, it's a sweet card for control lands. i got my foils back in june.
if Oko isn't banned, U/G lists with sylvan library and 1 Sevinne's Reclamation along with Karakas is my go-to...

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I was super wrong and can easily admit that. Sevinne's Reclamation is also good, but unneeded imo.

Also, that post is taken out of context! You asked about BUG control, and I said 7 was too much. In lands I think field was picked up pretty quick.

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

You asked about BUG control, and I said 7 was too much. In lands I think field was picked up pretty quick.

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yeah, that's my bad i wasn't clear enough.
i was referring to lands control from back in the day when we didn't run red and was mostly U/G splash black with creeping tar pit, worm harvest,
oblivion stone, tolaria west, and only one copy of dark depths.
that's where i want to go back to and one Sevinne's Reclamation lets me loam without obsessing.
field of the dead would've won me so many games against counterbalance back in the day...

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Originally Posted by non-inflammable

yeah, that's my bad i wasn't clear enough.
i was referring to lands control from back in the day when we didn't run red and was mostly U/G splash black with creeping tar pit, worm harvest,
oblivion stone, tolaria west, and only one copy of dark depths.
that's where i want to go back to and one Sevinne's Reclamation lets me loam without obsessing.
field of the dead would've won me so many games against counterbalance back in the day...

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Field of the Dead absolutely would have wrecked back in the day, imagine pre-marit lage lands with field. I currently find myself winning with field 30-40% of the time. Even against combo decks, landing lock pieces and attacking with zombies while porting and holding up Rotation/Veil has been a great option.

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

Hi!

I am on the discord server but hate the format and how discussions progress, would much rather stay on the Source.

Some answers!

Straight RG is still the de facto best list, streamlined and gives you the best matchups across the board.

Oko is very good but I would say meta dependent at this point. If you are going to play against Oko and midrange decks all day, oko and abrupt decay is tough to beat, but field of the dead is also pretty much unbeatable if you can get it running. Dave Long, the guy that first played oko, has already switched off of the card but has stayed RUG for sideboard cards. Entomb, Intuition, Tolaria west are all slower than the gamble alternative which is why, imho, gamble is superior. Gamble is good to tutor for sideboard cards turn 1 against bad matchups. I just gambled for Veil of Summer T1 when I didn't have the sphere to play... any other alternative tutor would be a dead card.

Heliod's Hall is generally considered to be too slow. I go back and forth with the card but can also say that in multiple events I have not activated the card once... Field of the dead has replaced the need for most other endgame options.

TLDR: Gamble is the best tutor option, Field of the Dead is an absolutely dumb magic card and people are moving to 2 copies in the 75 to be able to ensure the card goes "online"

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Thanks a lot and good to see at least some people are still here. I went on that Discord thingy but have the feeling I'm too old for that stuff :tongue:

Also good to hear that RG is 'still' the thing. But I was always playing RuG and try to keep the 'control' part if it's possible. (Actually I was frozen like Marit Lage for about a year and still have my RuG deck with EE, so before Blast Zone.) That is why I'm asking about white. I thought I replace the EE with Blast Zone and Academy Ruins with Heliod's Hall and add some Enchantments to reanimate and still have my deck. :wink: my RuG was always slower than RG decks and I really like Tolaria West as a almost uncounterable tutor (not working so well for enchantments like it was for the EE, yes). But I also don't like PW as they don't really fit in the Loam stuff, so good to hear that Oko is not a must.
But as I mentioned, so many things happened last year. The Field of the Dead was something I've heard and forgotten (and is now out of stock at my local store), but seems to be a must have now. Veil of Summer was never in my mind and seems to be a thing too(?). The Blast Zone switch was clear even for me :wink: Heliod's Hall was so long awaited and then not used and then Wrenn and Oko, Wrenn off again...

As you can see, I'm lost just because of one year... Do I want to play RG now... or RGw or stay RuG with Oko now or even BuG. If I know that, which cards should I include (main or side) and which one not (and how many and how to use them)? I'm sure now that I have to include Field of the Dead and Blast Zone; but especially I'm unsure about:
- Oko
- Choke
- Veil of Summer
- Drop of Honey
- Cindervines
- Crucible of Worlds
- Sylvan Library
- Riftstone Portal
- How many fetches

Sorry about that but maybe you can give me some light :smile:

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Originally Posted by OldSpellMaster

Thanks a lot and good to see at least some people are still here. I went on that Discord thingy but have the feeling I'm too old for that stuff :tongue:

Also good to hear that RG is 'still' the thing. But I was always playing RuG and try to keep the 'control' part if it's possible. (Actually I was frozen like Marit Lage for about a year and still have my RuG deck with EE, so before Blast Zone.) That is why I'm asking about white. I thought I replace the EE with Blast Zone and Academy Ruins with Heliod's Hall and add some Enchantments to reanimate and still have my deck. :wink: my RuG was always slower than RG decks and I really like Tolaria West as a almost uncounterable tutor (not working so well for enchantments like it was for the EE, yes). But I also don't like PW as they don't really fit in the Loam stuff, so good to hear that Oko is not a must.
But as I mentioned, so many things happened last year. The Field of the Dead was something I've heard and forgotten (and is now out of stock at my local store), but seems to be a must have now. Veil of Summer was never in my mind and seems to be a thing too(?). The Blast Zone switch was clear even for me :wink: Heliod's Hall was so long awaited and then not used and then Wrenn and Oko, Wrenn off again...

As you can see, I'm lost just because of one year... Do I want to play RG now... or RGw or stay RuG with Oko now or even BuG. If I know that, which cards should I include (main or side) and which one not (and how many and how to use them)? I'm sure now that I have to include Field of the Dead and Blast Zone; but especially I'm unsure about:
- Oko
- Choke
- Veil of Summer
- Drop of Honey
- Cindervines
- Crucible of Worlds
- Sylvan Library
- Riftstone Portal
- How many fetches

Sorry about that but maybe you can give me some light :smile:

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The white version is easy enough, just play Karakas and a sheltered grove along with your horizon canopy and hall. He best cards are molten vortex main and drop of honey side.

The Oko builds haven’t settled on a list yet and are not finished yet. I also can’t believe I forgot to tell you about blast zone, card is nuts.

You really don’t need another color with recurring EE built into your lands baseline.

Jump back in and have fun! The meta feels fine right now.

since i'm back to a U/G manabase, i'm gonna run this as a one-of...

http://mythicspoiler.com/tbd/cards/u...tureswrath.jpg

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Originally Posted by non-inflammable

since i'm back to a U/G manabase, i'm gonna run this as a one-of...

http://mythicspoiler.com/tbd/cards/u...tureswrath.jpg

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Card looks fun, UUGG might be hard on the old manabase though.

Card is gross, covid is bad for magic, and discord is really murdering forum threads for decks that are specialist-decks, since we all just stick to the one deck community...

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Originally Posted by amalek0

Card is gross, covid is bad for magic, and discord is really murdering forum threads for decks that are specialist-decks, since we all just stick to the one deck community...

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the discord thing drives me nuts. you don't get the same sense of history you get trawling through old forum pages and there's not an easy way to just point somebody towards X post or even have a primer (ig you can link a google doc but nobody's clicking that).

plus most of the ones I've joined feel like cliques.

anyways sorry for my off-topic boomer moment, carry on with landsposting.

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Originally Posted by Sella

the discord thing drives me nuts. you don't get the same sense of history you get trawling through old forum pages and there's not an easy way to just point somebody towards X post or even have a primer (ig you can link a google doc but nobody's clicking that).

plus most of the ones I've joined feel like cliques.

anyways sorry for my off-topic boomer moment, carry on with landsposting.

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You're not the only one who feels that way, my man. Finding specific information about various decks can be challenging, and the discussion may not entirely be conducive toward developing the best play styles and deck builds when you're stretching among various Discord servers...

This heavy creature maya list got 6th on sat challenge

Reclaimer/flagstones/valakut is definitely sweet.

Why is apparition good in lands? Double offcolour contorts your manabase, it makes bolt better vs you, and you have no cavern/vial/flickers to abuse it. It seems worse than oring on average.

Is lands still considered a good deck? I’ve been playing mono g 12 post for 3 years and think of lands as an “upgrade”. I already own a tabby thankfully. I think there are some similarities between the two decks, so it would be fun to pick up. I’m also thinking on the back of an oko/labe ban before paper magic comes back

Lands is definitely still a good deck, the recent bans have made it a lot better and it's been putting up decent results, especially considering how few people play it in big events.

Valakut exploration was a big upgrade.

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Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi

Lands is definitely still a good deck, the recent bans have made it a lot better and it's been putting up decent results, especially considering how few people play it in big events.

Valakut exploration was a big upgrade.

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And I think regular lands has 2 builds that could both be competitive as Saga and non Saga lists are currently playable.

Two currency converter lists:

One inspired by punishing thieves. https://pendrellvalecom.files.wordpr...4332.jpg?w=768

One inspired by my loam pox take. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVu33ySU...jpg&name=small