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I've moved away from the thing early in my testing. It's not only vulnerable it's also 2 slow. The trigger is great and it does work sometimes, but you can't count on it... I prefer trinket mage for it's versatility and being a shuffle - creature.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Thing should likely never block unless you're really rough for life or can flip in response to save it. Decay, liliana and terminus are likely things you can't get past, aside from running trickbind to stifle a terminus miracle trigger, liliana sacrifice, etc. Seems pretty good thinking on that a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Have been having amazing online success with this list, partially inspired by zot's list:
// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [ON] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [TSP] Vesuva
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [R] Forest (3)
// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [OGW] Warping Wall
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [US] Show and Tell
3 [M14] Ratchet Bomb
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [TSP] Trickbind
Flex sb slots are the x2 trick, x2 beb, x2 MBT. I wouldn't touch anything else.
Ratchet Bomb main has been hilariously amazing, doing nearly everything EE did for me in the past, without requiring healthy manabases to stabilize. Also the new delver change helps knock out drs as well, rather than only hitting tokens.
Got 1st place this week for weekly legacy with this list inspired by Zot, only slightly modified from previous list:
// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [ON] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [TSP] Vesuva
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [R] Forest (3)
// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [OGW] Warping Wall
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [US] Show and Tell
3 [M14] Ratchet Bomb
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [TSP] Trickbind
SB: 2 [WWK] Nature's Claim
Matchups were Tin Fins, Moggcatcher Stompy, Miracles, Storm (he ID'd out of fear)
Ratchet bomb showed up often and was always hugely important, even against Tinfins vs artifact mana or pithing needles.
Really enjoying this setup. I could see running cards specifically against Infect in the sb.
Infect is the one match I really, really hate in this colorless build. It's basically Bomb, Sphere effects, or just get the Magic Johnson treatment. Lands is bad if they combo immediately, but otherwise my 1-drops are very strong and I also put Endbringer back in, which they mostly can't answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
I likely will go with submerge, dismember, moment's peace as my options vs them. Pithing needle is "ok" hitting either pendlehaven, wasteland, or inkmoth too. If you REALLY are only aiming to fight infect, then gut shot is your best bet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster
I think I'm actually going to dump my Chalice of the Void in the board in favor of Warping Wail the more I think about it. With my current configuration, Chalice has more often been a "I have a few extra cards, might as well throw these in" sort of sideboard plan. 4 more Spheres in the board as well as Cursed Totem and Grafdigger's Cage are probably enough combo answers when used in conjunction with the Trinisphere, Relic of Progenitus, Pithing Needle, and Phyrexian Revoker I'm already running. Wail didn't make sense to me in the main due to being more reactive than proactive, but I think it makes a lot more sense out of the board since it can help address the little X/1 idiots or random sorcery spells to help cover until I can get Spheres and Ratchet Bomb on the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
i like this build, but i lost terribly against RUG - namely stifle. just terrible against bomb. Stifle is one of those cards i really hate playing against with any post build. I rather see a titan / eldrazi get countered than see their triggers stifled. Furthermore it can mana screw you, reap your maps, prevent life gain, ... Not to mention the delay action against eye and top (draw). This is why i like trickbind in the mirror it has won me several mirror matches in the past. This ratchet build seems especially vulnerable against stifle...
My current build:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Vesuva
1 Island
1 Forest
3 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Expedition Map
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Brainstorm
3 Show and Tell
3 Crop Rotation
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Warping Wail
//Sideboard
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Platinum Emperion
SB: 1 Glacial Chasm
SB: 2 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Zuran Orb
So far, splashing black has been great. Decay is just insane, Deed as well. Only missing good old repeal against combo lands, but MU is still ok. I guess I'll cut Ugin and the 2 Phyrexian Revokers. Revokers will enter the SB, Ugin will have to leave the 75 atm:cry: cmc8, no way to tutor it, no cheating in, no way to "protect" him against counter...doesn't feel good right now.
Well I've been playing against one dude on xmage who plays a BG build with the new turtle guy (The Gitrog Monster) + Tireless Tracker. It works very well for him. The card advantage on the that thing is great once he gets tracker online. Lots of lands (30 i think) with crucible and waste (i think?). Anyhow it seems an interesting build.
I don't know if that dude is following this forum, but it would be interesting to get his comment and list. Dude if you're out there post your list and tell us more about this build...?
Would be really cool to see his list! I saw Tireless Tracker in action last night (SOI draft). He was a real engine, no doubt. But in Legacy, I would always be afraid of drawing him in turn 6+ :-/ that's one of the reasons I don't play cards like Exploration or Oracle of Mul Daya. But if his Deck works, let's hope he will post it here and convinces us ;-)
Gesendet von meinem LG-H961N mit Tapatalk
I am following this forum, and finally decided to register, just to post this list (and it looks completely crazy, but over >200 matches on xmage if have ~70% winrate with this and earlier versions of it):Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTactical
Lands:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Forest
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
2 Windswepth Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Vesuva
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Wasteland
Spells:
3 Mox Diamond
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Crop Rotation
2 Warping Wail
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Creatures:
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 The Gitrog Monster
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Golgari Charm
1 Engineered Plague
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Crop Rotation
2 Krosan Grip
2 Warping Wail
2 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Chalice of the Void
How it started: I wanted to try out Tireless Tracker and Gitrog Monster in a Post Build with Crucible, and my first list looked a lot more streamlined - with just the two colors, some more cards you would expect with a black splash (like Abrupt Decay), just ~25 Lands and without most of my utility lands. That list was ok, but i wasn't happy with some of it and decided to try more and more crazy ideas, expecting them to fail. Well, my winrate went up and i was happy with all of it, so why not just keep the crazy list? Every single questionable land has won me a few games either directly or indirectly by providing insane value.
I keep track of all my results, here are just the most common decks i played against on xmage (the meta there might be a little unusual):
Reanimator: 10-7
Lands: 12-2
NicFit: 13-0
Eldrazi: 9-4
12-Post: 6-7
Death & Taxes: 11-0
Storm: 6-4
Shardless BUG: 5-4
Burn: 5-3
BUG Delver: 3-4
Miracles: 6-1
Jund: 4-1
Manaless Dredge: 5-0
Sneak & Show: 4-1
Elves: 4-0
Merfolk: 2-2
UR Delver: 1-3
Omnitell: 2-2
Infect: 3-1
Against most fair decks any creature they dont deal with will eventually take over the game with insane card advantage, each in a different way and all of them working great together. This deck can outgrind anything. I only lose against fair decks it they somehow manage to deal with all of my threats right away and still have a reasonable clock - that happens mostly against delver, although Liliana can be a problem too (and sometimes Eldrazi has just nutdraws you can't beat).
Against combo decks i will often lose game 1, but postboard i can mulligan into a very reactive hand. Warping Wail is great, Crop Rotation can deal with many combos, and Leyline and Chalice provide even more help.
About some of the card choices:
Tireless Tracker: The idea was: With this deck i make a lot of landdrops, so i get a lot of clues, and thanks to cloudposts i will usually have the mana to crack all of these clues. And that's pretty much how it works. Sometimes it can become a big beater, but it will at least provide some card advantage all of the time.
Knight of the Reliquery: Took me a while to try the white splash for this card, but i really like it. It's a permanent source for Crop Rotations and usually a nice blocker. I very rarely attack with it, it's mostly a great way to develop my lands into whatever i need (and provide additional value if i have other creatures in play).
Gitrog Monster: If this is unanswered, it will provide insane value - and all the other creatures work well with it. Usually i don't try that hard to search it up with GSZ, but in some very advanced board states it can be better than a Titan. As a rule of thumb i think the first Titan is usually better than the Gitrog Monster, but if the first Titan doesn't win the game, the Gitrog Monster is better then the second Titan most of the time. (And costing just 5 Mana instead of 6 can make the difference.)
Titania: Just another angle of attack. It works well with the other creatures and it opens up the option to go wide.
Just one Primeval Titan: I started without any Titans, but soon realized i want to have access to it. But with 4 GSZ the one Titan is just enough. It very rarely came up that my Titan was dead and having another one in the library would have won the game, but in all of these cases i won the game anyway with gitrog or titania.
The Dark Depths Combo is very helpful in some rather difficult matchups. I have killed Storm more than once on turn 4 while always keeping up Crop and/or Wail to interact with their combo. I have won races against Burn. In these matchups i sometimes board out the eldrazi package and just go for marit lage as my main plan. (In grindier matchups it's often the other way, i board out Dark Depths and go for Eldrazi.)
Bojuka Bog Main is a concession to the Xmage Meta.
Horizon Canopy can be a Draw Engine with Crucible and Oracle or Gitrog out, and it's a colored mana source.
Sea Gate Wreckage is helpful against Decks that make you play of the top. I added it as the 61st card just to try it, and so far i'm happy with it.
Wasteland can just randomly win you the game with crucible, it's also added value with Gitrog and Titania in the Deck. And sometimes you just have to get rid of one specific land (like Eye of Ugin in the mirror).
Chalice in the board (a relatively new addition):
1. It's another "must-answer" threat against Delver (and Miracles, but that matchup is already fine). I board out the Crop Rotations there (because they just get countered too often to cast them as anything else then Wasteland-Counter), so i just have Top as a 1-Drop, and that often comes down before the Chalice.
2. It helps a lot against most combo decks. Sometimes you get into awkward situations with Chalice and Crop Rotation in hand, then you have to decide what's more important in this game, but there are also some matchups where you can just put the chalice on 0 and still have access to Crop Rotations (Storm, Belcher, Oops All Spells).
Cards i don't play:
Ancient Stirrings: I started with some number of it, but after a while i realized whenever i cast it, it just found me a land, a top or a crucible while i really wanted just another creature. So i cut them for additional creatures, and haven't missed them at all. This build just doesn't have enough colorless action to really utilize this card. In addition, it opened up the option for Chalice in the board.
Pithing Needle in the Main Deck: This deck doesn't fold to Wasteland. It's not like i don't care about it, but other than some games where Lands just locked me out very early in the game Wasteland has never been a problem. I have won a lot of games without a single locus on the battlefield.
Abrupt Decay: I started with 4 of them in the 75, eventually cut them all. With this mana base (and even with less utility lands and more colored sources) it's unreliable to cast early in the game. And overall it's just a one for one trade when it's good, and it's dead in pretty much every combo matchup.
Hand Disruption: I started with some Thought-Knots, but they don't do anything for my engine and they often come down too late against combo decks. A turn 3 Thought-Knot doesn't help if the combo deck goes off on turn 1 or 2. And if the combo deck doesn't kill me that fast my other tools work just fine anyway. Thoughtseize or other black hand disruption spells require reliable access to black mana on turn 1, there is no way my deck can do that.
Other Eldrazi: I don't think i need Kozilek - my deck provides more than enough card draw without him.
Overall i think my bad matchups are the Mirror (because other Post Decks are better at getting and utilizing insane amounts of mana), Delver decks, very fast Combo Decks and Mono-Red Bloodmoon Decks, the deck feels even or favorable against anything else, although you have to work for your wins and with that many options there is room to make a lot of mistakes. And even in the bad matchups you aren't just dead. I won a game against Mono-Red-Stompy by casting Emrakul while Bloodmoon was in play, and i won multiple games by casting Ulamog under a Bloodmoon. :cool:
I would be happy if someone tried this list or a similar one in paper or on Magic Online. I haven't played paper magic in years, right now i'm playing only on Xmage, so i probably won't find out by myself if the deck also works that well in a more competitive setting.
i'm also trying Tireless Tracker in ug version as side card against few matchups and seems to me very solid but must to test him more and today helped to win trial for gp prague..
Looking forward to taking a close look at the build. testing it and enjoying this fresh look at the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshrac82
I played against reanimator tonight for the first time and, yeaaahhh, I got totally destroyed. How (if at all) does Titan Post deal with this deck?
Which variant?Quote:
Originally Posted by cwcomposer
UG - countermagic, Bojuka bog, Glacial chasm, relic of Progenitus, surgical extraction, warping wail, chalice of the void
CGx - Bojuka bog, Glacial Chasm, relic of Progenitus, surgical extraction, warping wail, chalice of the void
There are a lot of different options available to each variant. Just depends on how much you think you need the extra options
Karakas depending on which creature they go for
So the last two times I've played against D&T, the final game of the match they have always drawn/started with their 1-of cataclysm/armaggedon. Am I just getting unlucky? Everytime it has been, swords your primetime, blow up all the lands. Should I be playing around a potentially-not-in-the-list one of?
Glad to see maindeck thoughtknots. I've been trying them SB and feel like I've been boarding them in against just about everything. I was able to tune the deck to include 3 main, but you did the work for me. Thanks! :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
I'm playing mono-green Titan Post. This was a mono-black Reanimator brew with Lion's Eye Diamonds and Dark Rituals and lots of cards that were new to me.
Game one he was on the play, reanimated Sire of Insantiy, and said "go." I discard my seven cards, draw a non-land card for my turn one, and immediately concede.
Game two, I keep a hand with 2 Relic of Progenitus, Glimmerpost, Dryad Arbor, Crop Rotation, Eye of Ugin, one other card that I don't remember. Turn one, I play Glimmerpost, Relic. In hindsight, perhaps I should've played Dryad Arbor and passed. His turn one he puts Griselbrand into play, attacks, draws 21 cards, casts Unmask to take my Crop Rotation. My turn two, I draw another Crop Rotation, play Dryad Arbor (stupid summoning sickness), pass, thinking if I can make it one more turn I can Crop Rotate for Karakas and get rid of Griselbrand. His turn two he plays a creature and Liliana of the Veil, makes me sac my Dryad Arbor, moves to combat, and I immediately concede.
The round was over in about three minutes. He said, "I'm gonna teach you why Tormod's Crypt is better than Relic." I was like, "I have a policy in Modern that if my opponent will show me that they're playing Grishoalbrand before turn one, I'll immediately concede. I didn't come here to watch my opponent play while I get to do nothing at all. Looks like I found the Legacy equivalent."
Edited to add: I've never, not a single time in my five weeks of playing this deck, found a time when Dryad Arbor was a help rather than a liability. Is it wrong to just cut it?
I run natural order package. So for me it's a necessity. For others it's a quick blocker of a goblin lack or what not.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwcomposer
That version of reanimator is quick and difficult to compete with, but it's also full of air at times. You're best bet is that they stumble a couple turns. Leyline of the Void is a decent add if graveyard decks are an issue for you
Try Faerie Macabre. It works on T0 and laughs at Daze & FoW.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwcomposer