4 Card Blind

I am slightly in favor of a break.

Also, I'm addressing a disagreement in the results.




Asthereal (TO): Tropical Island, Durkwood Baloth, Dismember, Daze
and
mattamort: Durkwood Baloth, Dismember, Tropical Island, Daze

vs

silkster: Undiscovered Paradise, Swords to Plowshares, Swarm Shambler, Evil Presence

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mattamort

10. silkster: Undiscovered Paradise, Swords to Plowshares, Swarm Shambler, Evil Presence
-> WW
I kill Shambler the turn it is played and counter STP on baloth 5/5 > 1/1

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

I believe I shall score similarly to this man of culture.

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I didn't see an analysis post from silkster, but silkster's
row in the spreadsheet has 6 for both of these entries.



I believe silkster gets WW in these:

Evil Presence handles Daze, since either Daze gets cast to counter
Evil Presence or Daze will subsequently never be able to be cast.
StP handles Baloth, since silkster has time for
Evil Presence ​ , ​ Swarm Shambler ​ , ​ untap
before Durkwood Baloth can enter the battlefield.
If Dismember kills Swarm Shambler, then silkster gets a 1/1 Insect,
so silkster will still have a threat to win with.

I'm OK either way. It sounds like some players could use a break though.

If we proceed, I'll keep playing but will have less time and energy to check results for a few weeks.

Yeah, I am good with a break. But, really, I think I am going to "drop" from this season. I just have not had the time to think about my entries and do my analyses.

Hopefully by next season I will have a bit more time, but I think we have enough players to sustain us for now without me slowing this down.

I wanted to make a decision in the past few days, but I was gone for the weekend, and the days before were a bit of a mess.
In my area there were floodings, which was weird and caused all sorts of problems. Thankfully my place was safe, but villages around Maastricht weren't so lucky.
(There were quite a number of fatalities in Germany and Belgium, where the valleys are steaper than in my region.)

Anyway. I decided to go for the break. There's too many people unable to post regularly, which delays the rounds (bannathon, so we need the results).
Let's put the deadline for next round to Wednesday the 25th of AUGUST.



About current round:
I see silk tried to post scores but couldn't enter the website at that moment. This has been resolved, but his disagreements haven't.
Two of them are with mattamort and me. I shamelessly stole matta's results without checking, and see matta probably missed the fact that Evil Presence makes us unable to cast Daze.
So I fear we lose that matchup 6-0 instead of winning it by said score, just like Phasmoid posted.
The others are with dte and FTW. I think dte missed how bad Encroach is OTD against Undiscovered Paradise (or that Bolting the Shambler nets silk a 1/1 token). Looks like 3-3 to me.
I think FTWs analysis is solid. I don't see how he wins a game, so I'm inclined to chalk up a 2-2 there.

Also I did napkin math to figure out scores between H, Reep and Tylert, who haven't been able to post results yet.
Reep-H looks like 6-0 (Daze the Valentin, Dismember the Nexus and the creature wins it).
Reep-Tylert looks like a typical trading of resources into 2-2.
H-Tylert looks like 0-6, as Tylert can Dismember two guys and H's aura doesn't stop that.

If there scores are correct, and everybody who posted scores have posted them correctly, we would end up with:
1. Wrath of Pie: 66 - 4,4
2. silkster: 61 - 4,1
3. RoosterCocoa: 54 - 3,6
4. alphastryk: 53 - 3,5
5. dte: 52 - 3,5
6. maxx!: 50 - 3,3
7. PJim: 46 - 3,1
8. Serguei: 44 - 2,9
9. Asthereal (TO): 38 - 2,5
9. Phasmoid: 38 - 2,5
9. Reeplcheep: 38 - 2,5
9. mattamort: 38 - 2,5
13. GoblinSmashmaster: 37 - 2,5
14. Tylert: 34 - 2,3
15. FTW: 32 - 2,1
16. H: 4 - 0,3

And these bannings:
Aether Vial
Chancellor of the Tangle
Deputy of Detention
Evil Presence
Fulminator Mage
Grist, the Hunger Tide
Hickory Woodlot
Myr Superion
Swarm Shambler
Swords to Plowshares
Twilight Mire
Undiscovered Paradise

EDIT: and these are the standings in the season after round 8:
1. Tylert: 29,6
2. Serguei: 28,9
3. dte: 28,4
4. silkster: 27,7
5. mattamort: 27
6. FTW: 26,9
7. GoblinSmashmaster: 25,1
8. PJim: 25
9. maxx!: 23,7
10. alphastryk: 23,4
11. RoosterCocoa: 19,5
12. Wrath of Pie: 19,3
13. Reeplcheep: 18,7
14. Asthereal (TO): 14,3
15. Phasmoid: 13,8
16. jhhdk: 12
17. H: 10
18. shiftyhomunculus: 3,1

Back from vacation.
I think it's probably for the best i didn't participate in the last round.
I completely misunderstood the round rule which also made it kind of difficult to construct a deck (didn't read thread for last 3 weeks either).
I read "Non-land cards in deck must contain at least 3 different mana symbols" as
"Each non-land card in decks must contain at least 3 different mana symbols."
I see wording has been updated since, but I am pretty sure that whatever deck I would've submitted abiding by my initial interpretation of rules would've given m the same score for round as I got by being away :smile:.

No replies anymore on my thoughts on the undecided matches, so I'm locking in the bannings.
If scores change, I'll of course make sure the correct ones are used for the season standings, but the bannings are now final, even if they would change because of changes in scores.
So this allows me to create my deck, open the round and then take a nice big holiday. Let's gooo! :cool:


ROUND 9 OF SEASON 10: DEVIANT LEGACY BANNATHON has started.

This round we play Go Big Or Go Home: All non-land cards in your deck must have mana value 3 or greater.

I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 9, so you can start sending me your decks.

DEADLINE: Wednesday the 25th of August at 11:00AM Central European Time.
(That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)

PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Mountain, Quicksand, Desert, Suq'Ata Lancer.
So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S10R09 in the topic.
Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.

After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

Happy deck building! :smile:

Are sets legal if the round starts after their release, or if decks are due after their release? AFR wouldn't be legal if the former, though we might make an exception given the big break.

Separately, are Jumpstart: HH cards going to be legal? Obviously we can handle the elements that don't work for paper in this format. Persistent effects and Conjuring could be very impactful if there are good enough cards. Some of the random cards have ridiculous branching possibilities, but given our randomness rule I think all the ones shown thus far would always be useless.

Historic is interesting because it's becoming effectively a self-contained format in which it has cards that won't be legal elsewhere (even in Vintage!), and given that their legality is obvious as in not legal unless we specifically play Historic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PJim

Are sets legal if the round starts after their release, or if decks are due after their release? AFR wouldn't be legal if the former, though we might make an exception given the big break.

Separately, are Jumpstart: HH cards going to be legal? Obviously we can handle the elements that don't work for paper in this format. Persistent effects and Conjuring could be very impactful if there are good enough cards. Some of the random cards have ridiculous branching possibilities, but given our randomness rule I think all the ones shown thus far would always be useless.

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About AFR: I already received several decks, and I had to create my own before the set came out.
So it seems wrong to allow it for this ongoing round. Adventures in the Forgotten Realms will become legal next round.


(EDITED) About Jumpstart Historic Horizons: I had overlooked this launch somehow, but let's have a look. But now properly. Jumpstart: Historic Horizons is the second Jumpstart set that comes out.
It's an Arena only release, so no paper, no Legacy/Vintage/Modern/... legality. Yet it's a normal release with normal cards, so I think we can have the new cards be legal in our current season until they get banned.
And as Jumpstart Historic Horizons launches on August 12th, it too will be legal from next round onwards. But I'll have to look at the mechanics. I haven't checked it at all yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

But I'll have to look at the mechanics. I haven't checked it at all yet.

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Okay, after a quick look, my interpretation is this:
-Perpetually: no problem. It functions as an aura but without being an aura. "Target creature perpetually gets +3/+3."
-Conjure: this is a bit weird. Sarkhan, Wanderer to Shiv has "Conjure a Shivan Dragon card into your hand." So that looks like "create a token card named Shivan Dragon and put it into your hand." Which you can then cast, or discard and reanimate. It might die and get put into your graveyard where you can interact with it again, and so on. If my interpretation is correct, this is very strong and violates the 4CB idea somewhat. But a card that costs 4 mana should be strong, and we can easily handle the 5th card, play-wise. So perhaps also not a problem? We can always decide to ban the ones that are dominating our game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

About AFR: I already received several decks, and I had to create my own before the set came out.
So it seems wrong to allow it for this ongoing round. Adventures in the Forgotten Realms will become legal next round.


About Jumpstart: I had overlooked this launch somehow, but let's have a look.
This is in the MTG Wiki: "The set contains almost 500 reprints but also introduced 37 new cards that were designed to help fill out some of the themes. These are not Standard-, Pioneer-, or Modern-legal cards, but they are legal in Eternal formats (Legacy, Vintage, Pauper and Commander)."
So the new cards will be legal in our current season until they get banned. And as Jumpstart launches on August 12th, it too will be legal from next round onwards. But I'll have to look at the mechanics. I haven't checked it at all yet.

(PS. Looks like Jumpstart has been delayed several times already. MTG Wiki says it launches on July 17th, but Wizards themselves announced August 12th. If this changes, so does the legality of our new 37 cards. We'll have to keep an eye on this.)

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There's some confusion here. The original Jumpstart launched on July 17th last year, and has the legality you posted, and I've been assuming (presumably correctly) that it's been legal the entire time I've been here. Jumpstart: Historic Horizons is the new set, and doesn't get a physical release, it's an Arena only product. It's legal for Historic, which is a sanctioned format, but not for Legacy and the rest. The gimmick is the card effects that are easily handled in a digital game, but wouldn't work well with physical cards, so it's unlikely they'd ever be legal in paper formats.

I don't personally see a reason to exclude them, as they are real cards for a sanctioned format, and not Un- or otherwise weird cards, and they should work fine in 4CB. But the fact they're not legal in paper formats does make them something different to everything else that's legal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PJim

There's some confusion here. The original Jumpstart launched on July 17th last year, and has the legality you posted, and I've been assuming (presumably correctly) that it's been legal the entire time I've been here. Jumpstart: Historic Horizons is the new set, and doesn't get a physical release, it's an Arena only product. It's legal for Historic, which is a sanctioned format, but not for Legacy and the rest. The gimmick is the card effects that are easily handled in a digital game, but wouldn't work well with physical cards, so it's unlikely they'd ever be legal in paper formats.

I don't personally see a reason to exclude them, as they are real cards for a sanctioned format, and not Un- or otherwise weird cards, and they should work fine in 4CB. But the fact they're not legal in paper formats does make them something different to everything else that's legal.

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Bad research by me from my holiday location leads to bad posts. :tongue:
I indeed confused the two sets. I read July 17th as release date, then read August 12th and the fact that it was pushed back and just assumed I was looking at the same release.

But you're right: the new Jumpstart (Jumpstart: Historic Horizons) is an Arena only release. But I think we can keep it anyway.
As you said, it's not Unglued or equivalent. It's normal cards with normal ideas, and I don't see a reason to exclude it for now.

(Edited original post to remove nonsense.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PJim

It's legal for Historic, which is a sanctioned format, but not for Legacy and the rest.

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Not legal for Legacy, thus not legal for this season. Seems simple enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

Not legal for Legacy, thus not legal for this season. Seems simple enough.

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Legacy is just the name for the paper format. Jumpstart: Historic Horizons isn't a paper launch, but 4CB also isn't a paper format.
I don't see a problem with allowing it from next round onwards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

Legacy is just the name for the paper format. Jumpstart: Historic Horizons isn't a paper launch, but 4CB also isn't a paper format.
I don't see a problem with allowing it from next round onwards.

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It sets a bad precedent. We should finish the season as-is and figure out what we want to do with the Historic-exclusive cards once the season is over.

(Also, Legacy isn't really a paper format anymore, but that's another argument entirely.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

It sets a bad precedent. We should finish the season as-is and figure out what we want to do with the Historic-exclusive cards once the season is over.

(Also, Legacy isn't really a paper format anymore, but that's another argument entirely.)

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I don't see how it's a bad precedent. It's a new set, albeit an Arena only one. The cards see play in a competitive format, albeit an online one.
Lately I've been playing mostly Arena (draft > constructed, imo), and I think I'm not the only one.
Paper magic just wasn't an option for over a year because of the pandemic, which caused Arena to grow enormeously, so it's no wonder it gets exclusive releases now.
But I guess my playing and enjoying Arena has made me less interested in paper, where that might have been different 5 years ago when I still played paper only.

We could keep the historic only sets out of 4CB until the end of the season if enough people feel like that's the best thing to do.

Everybody: sound off below what you think: hit the breaks on Jumpstart: Historic Horizons? Or just have it be legal from next round onwards?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

I don't see how it's a bad precedent. It's a new set, albeit an Arena only one. The cards see play in a competitive format, albeit an online one.
Lately I've been playing mostly Arena (draft > constructed, imo), and I think I'm not the only one.
Paper magic just wasn't an option for over a year because of the pandemic, which caused Arena to grow enormeously, so it's no wonder it gets exclusive releases now.
But I guess my playing and enjoying Arena has made me less interested in paper, where that might have been different 5 years ago when I still played paper only.

We could keep the historic only sets out of 4CB until the end of the season if enough people feel like that's the best thing to do.

Everybody: sound off below what you think: hit the breaks on Jumpstart: Historic Horizons? Or just have it be legal from next round onwards?

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Don't care. can be legal next round.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

I don't see how it's a bad precedent. It's a new set, albeit an Arena only one. The cards see play in a competitive format, albeit an online one.
Lately I've been playing mostly Arena (draft > constructed, imo), and I think I'm not the only one.
Paper magic just wasn't an option for over a year because of the pandemic, which caused Arena to grow enormeously, so it's no wonder it gets exclusive releases now.
But I guess my playing and enjoying Arena has made me less interested in paper, where that might have been different 5 years ago when I still played paper only.

We could keep the historic only sets out of 4CB until the end of the season if enough people feel like that's the best thing to do.

Everybody: sound off below what you think: hit the breaks on Jumpstart: Historic Horizons? Or just have it be legal from next round onwards?

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I have no opinion either way.

I vote not legal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

I vote not legal.

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Same here, I feel very strongly that these are not real magic cards and they don't fit into our game regardless of format legality, timing etc.