Also gets around the opposing players Llwan. Perhaps a sideboard slot in case you think they're packing the Empress?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunae
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Also gets around the opposing players Llwan. Perhaps a sideboard slot in case you think they're packing the Empress?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunae
We have Dismember for Llawan (and Piledriver).
We just got HUGE boosts from the printing of Misstep and Dismember, compared to that, Adaptive Automaton is just another in a long line of almost good enough cards that people will try to shoehorn in anyway.
Just my 2 cents =)
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Totally agreed, 'nuff said. Adaptive Automaton will help some decks; this is not one of them because we already have better stuff. But Automaton, I think, will show up in Legacy, and is gonna help some almost-there types of tribes like Soldiers and Vampires, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunae
IMO, what this deck needs in order to completely dominate is another awesome one-drop creature, ideally with some disruptive ability. (My super-duper 'never gonna happen' dream for this deck is a 1/1 for :u: who can sac to Stifle.) A better 'fourth lord' than Sovereign would be nice, but honestly she's good enough if you want extra +1/+1 effects.
Totally agreed, 'nuff said. Adaptive Automaton will help some decks; this is not one of them because we already have better stuff. But Automaton, I think, will show up in Legacy, and is gonna help some almost-there types of tribes like Soldiers and Vampires, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunae
IMO, what this deck needs in order to completely dominate is another awesome one-drop creature, ideally with some disruptive ability. (My super-duper 'never gonna happen' dream for this deck is a 1/1 for :u: who can sac to Stifle.) A better 'fourth lord' than Sovereign would be nice, but honestly she's good enough if you want extra +1/+1 effects.
Adaptive Automaton is stupid to even be considered when we aren't packing 4 Sovereign anyway. Sovereign at least pitches to Force.
Won locals tonight. Managed to beat Affinity 2-1, Zoo 2-0, Death & Taxes 2-0, and Belcher 2-0. Too tired and hungry to do a full report, but here was the summary of it.
1. Energy Flux was amazing. After getting just massacred by Affinity game one, It won me both of the other two games and against solid hands. It also is pretty neat for taking down Chrome Moxes and LED's that Belcher likes to stick on the board.
2. I beat Zoo because of Wasteland and because at one point, I topdecked three straight Coralhelm Commanders. Also, I packed a pair of Submerges at random, and they helped seal the deal. I beat Death & Taxes because I countered Stoneforge Mystic both games. I beat Belcher because I drew Force of Will both games.
I didn't really have any absolutely amazing revelations. On a whim, I decided to board out Force against Zoo even on the draw and didn't regret it for a second. I never ever seem to want to see that card against Zoo. It's the match where the 2-for-1 hurts the most, and the only times I ever win are when I get Silvergills or lucky Wastelands, or the opponent gets mana flooded.
The only other thing I noted was how difficult I once again found Belcher. I barely got through it with godly opening hands on both games. I always seem to end up, win or lose, with an unused Mental Misstep in my hand, wondering how it can somehow never find a target. It's better postboard to take care of blasts and one day in theory will hit a Rite of Flame or a Tinder Wall, but it never seems to.
EDIT: @Dukedemon: I'd take a version of Cursecatcher that works like an Annul instead of a Disrupt. And for some reason I want it to be called Merfolk Orthodontist. I have no idea why.
I agree that Adaptive Automation isn't going to make the cut in Merfolk. There are just too many other lords that are better. I guess the advantage of Automation is that it is colorless, so it plays better against cards such as Mother of Runes, pro-blue swords, Goblin Piledriver, and Etched Champion. On the other hand, it's vulnerable to artifact removal and it's advantages seem weaker than that of other Merfolk lords. Plus, the meta in which it is good (Goblins, Affinity, Aggro Wx decks) is probably one that you don't want to be playing Merfolk anyway.
@tacosnape : I am still confused on when to side out FOW completely. I still get the feeling that going out without FOW is like riding your bike without helmet.
Can you give some insight on this matter??
Congrats on your win.
I'm skeptical about ever siding out Force of Will as well, but I can see the argument for doing it against Zoo. Zoo is largely a redundant deck that plays lands, creatures and removal. I think that you can get away with boarding out Force of Will against a deck that does not have any "must-counter" spells. Merfolk players often hate to use Force against Zoo because of the card disadvantage, especially if the card that you pitched to it could have helped you win the game. Do you really want to save your lord from a removal spell with a Force when you have to pitch another lord in your hand to the Force? Is it really worth Forcing one of their creatures? Is it worth a 2 for 1 to keep a Nacatl or Goyf off the board? Sometimes the answer is yes, but often it will be no. I think you have to look at what the opponent is playing and ask yourself if there are some must-counter spells. For example, one could make the argument that Grim Lavamancer is a threat that you want to keep off the board. Sylvan Library is another card that might be up for debate.
I tend to keep one or two forces in against Zoo, to ensure I have more ways to stop Grim Lavamancer than they have Lavamancers. However, with the printing of Dismember this probably isn't necessary...
I dunno. Dismember doesn't seem to be too good against zoo, especially fast zoo. They can kill you as much with direct damage to the dome as they do with creatures. Taking a self-inflicted Fireblast doesn't seem too good, even if it gets one of their guys off the table. I probably wouldn't run Dismember against fast zoo in games 2 and 3.
Re Forces: I'll say this. Until you start trying siding out Force of Will, you won't realize the merit behind it. I'm pretty sure it hasn't even been a year since I argued against ever doing it. Now I find I do it almost constantly in Merfolk. Hey, at least I can admit half of what I say turns out to be wrong.
I almost never ever board out Forces on the draw. This is the conventional tempo logic. Interacting for zero mana when you're going second is almost always good.
On the play, I do it frequently, especially against decks like Zoo. You have to weigh how often you'll regret spending two cards for one, how much tempo you'll gain out of it, and how many things they run that just utterly beat you if they resolve. Grim Lavamancer doesn't frighten me as much as it probably should. On the play, I can Misstep, Dismember, Daze, Submerge, or Jitte it.
My latest thing, however, is that if I have Submerges in my board to go with Dismembers, I just don't want to see Force against Zoo. I want to see Silvergills, Missteps, and Submerges. This depends on the list, probably, but I feel like the deck's way too redundant to get a ton of use out of Force. If I saw Sylvan Libraries or Elspeths or Stoneforges, I might hang on to it.
And this still needs testing. I'm not firmly behind this theory yet. Just tried it once on a whim and felt like it worked well on a given instance.
For the most part, the conventional logic is still this: Force is sometimes expendable on the play, and Daze is often expendable on the draw.
@ Taco/FoWs
Are we talking about removing the entire set on the play against Zoo (only? Other pure aggro included?).
In these slots, side in 2 Jittes and 3rd and 4th dismember over submerge? Both?
I'm asking that because i'll play my local national qualifier in a month and would like to try this strategy.
Thanks in advance.
I think you need force of will vs zoo, sure the 2/1 can be bad card disadvantage but the effect on the board state more then makes up for it (if played correctly). Examples would be you have 2 lords and then play a third, then bolt.. You force. Or leveling commander, you have 6 mana invested and they invest 1 mana for bolt/path.. Or double bolt on kira. The list goes on and there is just as many situations that are bad.
I usually want to force 1 time vs zoo, so sbing out 1 or 2 is always good. I would sb out daze play or draw, they play to many 1 drops.
People always talk about the card disadvantage, but no one ever talks about how the board state would be effected if that spell resolved. Clearly you want to counter that 10/10 knight and pitching a card is worth it. Using the card correctly is the key
This is why you have spell pierce, misstep, dismember, and daze.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlopeeJ
I am indeed tinkering with just keeping Force out against certain zoo builds. As for other aggro, depends on the aggro and I haven't tested this at all at this juncture. I can't think of another aggro deck where I don't have something that I just can't let stick, or that doesn't also 2-for-1 itself or run out of gas easily if you Force a single crucial spell. So right now I'm just tinkering around with this for Zoo.
Right. I don't always find I have a Force and a blue card to spare against Zoo if I've got three Lords on the board. And if I do, what Blue card would it be at that point that I wouldn't be better off having the Force as something different?Quote:
Originally Posted by Star|Scream
Hello,
My meta seems to be filled with Maverick and Show and Tell/Hive Mind decks these days. Since I splash white I have Angel's Grace in the board for Pact's and E Tutor+Cursed Totem against Maverick. If someone have found good ways to stop these decks and/or good sideboard cards against them, please let me know.
The thing is that GW is a terrible matchup for you and in such meta merfolk is just plain bad choice. Merfolk thrives on blue control decks, which all the GW decks had pretty much eliminated last time if you compare to previous tournaments. If you still insist trying, it seems to me that Saito-style UB with sideboard Perish is the way to go. Perish can be complimented with Virtue's Ruin. So this is if you really want to play merfolk in GW meta. Even then, the presence of equipment makes even mass removal little less effective, as any topdecked creature can continue killing your fish with a Jitte or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micki
GW is obviously not unwinnable, but I think you need to reserve quite a many slots to fight through Mother of Runes, Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary, Scryb Ranger, Stoneforge Mystic, Batterskull, other equipment, Wasteland, spot removal AND the sideboarded goodness like Choke, extra removal and Dueling Grounds. It's just not easy.
Greetings.
Long time merfolk player here (if playing folk since Cursecatcher got printed is long).
Love the fishiez.
The deck got me to Worlds in Memphis where I got destroyed :wink: but that did not vanquish my eagerness to play it again in legacy. Since then, I managed to win/top8 some 50+ player tournaments. That payed for FoWs, Mutas and the rest. The last success was a week ago, split in finals (lucky because it was against maverick) got me sea and volcanic.
Latest list I am using:
1 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Mutavault
12 Island
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergill Adept
3 Cursecatcher
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4 AEther Vial
3 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Mental Misstep
2 Dismember
SB: 2 Pithing Needle (mystik, mother, jace, mancer, belcher, thopter foundry, elspeth)
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus (lands, reanimator, goyf, knight)
SB: 2 Spell Pierce (order, aluren, spout, moat, jace, vindicate, hymn)
SB: 1 Dismember
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 3 Hydroblast (goblins, burn, can. thresh)
SB: 2 Vendillion Clique (Life ftl, batterskull, combo)
SB: 2 Echoing Truth (empty the warrens, ens. bridge, other annoying stuff)
3 catcher, 3 daze and 3 fow was for that particular tournament (no combo in sight, very hostile environment to fish).
Kira was great all day, I wish there was room in the sideboard for two more. I know its legendary but matchups where she shines demand full playset cause I had enough of those bolt, sword, vindicate, lavamancer, incinerator, maze of ith BS.
Metamorph, I don't know, I had to try it, it was ok, nothing spectacular. Those slots mitght be open again, but I didn't lose a match with them so :cool:
Dismembers and missteps are to cool, not debatable for me and greatest gains from NPH.
Some people told us what they would like to be printed. To me it would be turning kira into merfolk, losing flying or some other mechanism to be fair, or some draw a card card (standstill, black sygg or selkie are not "it" for me). Something like 2/1 for 1u, draw a card when dies. Simple and not broken.
Hive Mind isn't that hard of a matchup. For a deck that trounces 80% of the format, Merfolk's in the 20% Hive Mind doesn't want to see in skilled hands. Spell Pierces in sideboard help a ton. Just take your time and don't make mistakes with your counters, or you get punished. I can't imagine with Angel's Grace on top of everything else that you'll do that poorly.
GW Maverick is all about spending your counters and removal at the right time. They've got all the right tools to beat you, but you have free counters and the ability to kill them before they can quite get everything together. It's not a good matchup, but practicing against it a lot can make more of a difference than any specific card you board. And you don't have a ton of great options to board here. Even if you run Hibernation or a black splash for Perish, you can die to Mother of Runes/Stoneforge Mystic if you don't have the cards to deal with it.