[Primer] Elves!

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Originally Posted by MegaManR

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Nettle Sentinel
(Took out the Mystics - wasn't thrilled testing with them the night before)
3 Heritage Druid
2 Birchlore Rangers
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Reclamation Sage (3 felt like too much from testing)
4 Natural Order
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Gaea's Cradle
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Taiga (wish it was my Pendlehaven, but swapped at last minute, ugh)
2 Forest
2 Bayou
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:
2 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Choke
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sylvan Library
1 Progenitus
2 Krosan Grip

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That's what I went with. Few last minute changes after testing the night before... hmmm.

Round1 - beat a GBw blade/Maverick +u deck. Odd. Game1, Ruric Turn 3 (nice brainstorms and ponders trying to dig for StP) and then game 2 he sided out StP... ok. Thanks. Beatdowns and N.O. over a Spell Pierce for a Hoof win.
R2 - Show and Tell. Not Omni-tell. Didn't have either Rec. Sage when it happened turn 1, anyway, for a Griselbrand. Got him to 1 or 3 life anyway after him drawing and attacking several times and digging for 21 cards over 2 turns for glimpse chains and beatdowns from me. Lost game 2 to a t2 Griselbrand and a follow-up Emrakul. I fucked up, I thoughtseized a Grafdigger's cage out of his hand with a Gris in his hand, but nothing else. Next draw of his was a Show and Tell. Weak.
R3 - BUG. went to time, messed up. Should have had a 2nd Hoof. That much I remember. Ground stalls cuz I know how to hold on. Wishin' that Ruric was a WRP. Such little details and flex slots matter so much on what your matchups are. Oh well. Went to a game 3 tie after resolving a NO for a Ruric with us both stalled out. Couldn't attack him for 1 point of damage and I had a pithing needle turn 2 on his DrS. I'm dumb. I could have used my own.
R4 - Shardless BUG. Damnit. Lost both quickly from Thoughtseizes and Hymns. Couldn't recover from the hands I had. Glimpse for value ended up with lands.
R5 - 12-Post. Game 1 glimpse chain and NO to Hoof. Yay. same with Game 2.

Didn't play it out - my ride and other friend were leaving and I said I'd continue testing again this week in prep for future events and just to see how it goes. I think I'd swap out Ruric/2nd Rec. Sage for WRP and my 2nd Hoof back. Liked the sideboard, though I didn't get a chance to use Grip on anything relevant (12-post I could have but didn't need it really and is it wrong that I wished I played Miracles and Omni just to get the experience in a large, real event? Next time.

Still Love Elves!!! Gonna listen to music, draw and paint now.

-R

Streaming the Legacy Daily Event with #ELVES! Join us over at twitch.tv/itsJulian

#GreenByPopularDemand :cool:

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Originally Posted by Julian23

Streaming the Legacy Daily Event with #ELVES! Join us over at twitch.tv/itsJulian #GreenByPopularDemand :cool:

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Game 1 best keep

Hey Guys,
i love this thread and I'm following your post over a year up to now. I never thought, that I'm going to write something here because I'm thinking it would be no help for anyone. But let'S have a look =)
I'm an Elves-Player from Germany and playing this deck everytime i could. This sunday I went 5-0 on a little event near Cologne. I played 61 cars main:

4 Natural Order
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
3 Heritage Druid
2 Birchlore Rangers
2 Bayou
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Nettle Sentinel
2 Dryad Arbor
4 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Pendelhaven
1 Crop Rotation
1 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 4 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 1 Wren's Run Packmaster
SB: 1 Krosan Grip

A couple of friends and I going to visit a big event in France and I wanted to test one copy of Crop Rotation in the main because I have never seen one in a successful list. But I think it is a great card in this deck so I tested it and because of the presence of Omni-Tell and Miracles in the meta I can't resign good old Ruric and Sage.
My thoughts about Crop Rotation: To say it simple it is the 5th Cradle. Ok it sucks if it gets countered but it makes explosive Turn 2 possible and it is a good reaction on Wasteland even if it gets countered. In resp on a Pyroclasm or something else it can get you Pendelhaven to safe one of your guys. Even if you have the most or all of your fetchable Lands in play you can sac a Fetch to find Pendelhaven or Cradle. Some other tricks are also possible. Sac a Arbor to remove Bridges and so on. Maybe you have other ideas why it is a good choice or a bad?! Let me hear it.
And if anybody thinks it is a bad 61st card then Ruric is the 61st card to tutor =P

My SB wasn't that easy i really wanted a copy of a 2nd Sage and one Krosan Grip. I choosed the Krosan Grip because of Omni-Tell and it is also good against Miracles and other Decks and we already have one Sage. I only use 4 discard spells and in my opinion the strongest one. Ageinst combo I have Ruric main und then I'm bringing 4 CT and the Surgicals. You often find something nice to extract. But the Point is to use it with CT. When you use it before you can easily destroy his hand. After CT you can destroy his hole deck. I also thought about Slaughter Games in the SB when I played a copy of Taiga main but it is too slow and hard to cast early in the game against Combo. So the combination of both spells is mycompromise. Sure you can use the SE for a lot of other nice things but i don't want to explain all of my thoughts exepct you want it.

The last thing I want to say is that I'm going to hate Progenitus this f****** Snake loves to chill in my hand. I don't know when it was the last time I had it in play so it has to go off my board. The MUs where you bring it in are doing everything to hinder you to search for your NO targets so choosed WRP. I often cut NO against Delver decks etc. you can WRP get out of GSZ NO AND from your Hand and so on and so on. Ok she has her own weakness but I like her a lot more than these headless snake which doesn't know where it belongs (in the library).

Ok my MUs:

vs Canadian: 2 - 0
First game there was rarely interruption from his side and had the time built my board with Glimpse and two NO in hand. First got countered secend resolves. Win. Game two I brought in the normal stuff. I made an explosive Turn two with Crop Rotation and wanted to kill hinm but I couldn't. Luckily he didn't find Rough and I killed him on turn 3 with 2 NO backup.

vs BUG Control: 2 - 1
It was a built with Counterbalance Top Goyf and so on. Game one was a classical Elves Kill. Game two was grindy and I lost because I made a little mistake. While he wants to discard me I played my Crop Rotation and bouncing Visionary and lost him.... stupid =D
Game 3 he really wants to counter my Decay with Balance. A judge solved the problem and I NO for the win.

vs UOmni-Tell: 2 - 1
First game I had all the time i needed. He didn't find anything. NO - Win. Game two he is too fast =)
Game 3 he hadn't Ruric on the screen tapping himself out with a Spell Pierce in his hand and I NO Ruric.

vs Death n Taxes: 2 - 1
First game I lost. Vial and the Flicker in a row in combination with Port really locked me. Game 2 Elves machinery works. Forgot to pay one more because of Thalia when i want to NO for the win but I could pay the tax. This japanese Thalia is really perplexing =DD But I don't want to beef because I'm using the foil Arbor in comination with these one Avacyn Restored Forest =D ok short: I won. Game three the same without mistakes from my side.

vs Elves!!! Hell Yeah: 2 - 0
He played a budget version of Elves and was really successful too. Game one he made some mistakes I didn't. Game 2 I CT him on NO he shows me one NO and two Hoofs I flashedbacked CT on Hoof and thought thats all. Than he has 4 Elves and GSZ into a LORD! nice one. I have two turns to combo and I could. At the moment i casted CT I didn't really know what kind of Elves he was playing. After the game I gave him some tips.

Got a Playset Flooded Strand and was lucky to see that Elves is doing fine (also on Scg Open).

When you have thoughts about card choices or questions, please let me know.

Please forgive me my simple english, it is my first post ;)

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Originally Posted by Julian23

Streaming the Legacy Daily Event with #ELVES! Join us over at twitch.tv/itsJulian

#GreenByPopularDemand :cool:

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Glad to see you have finally come back to the light side. I have found that people have expected elves in less and less tournaments so it is getting easier to win the sideboard games.

Quick note on Andrew Jessup's play in SCG Open Series Worcester round 5 (starts ~ 05:23:23 on http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/v/5352655)
Nb : Congrats to him for his finish btw.

Andrew resolves a lethal NO -> Hoof, but he could have done it spell pierce proof :

Board : Bayou Forest Cradle Symbiote Birchlore Quirion
Hand : Heritage Decay NO Fetch

Cast Heritage with Forest, tap all 3 elves (GGG)
Untap Birchlore with Quiron (returning Forest)
Play that Forest and cast Decay (targeting G.Cage) with Bayou + Forest
Untap Quirion with Symbiote (returning Heritage)
Cast Heritage again (GG), tap Cradle for GGGG (GGGGGG), cast NO (GG)

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Originally Posted by B4L4

Quick note on Andrew Jessup's play in SCG Open Series Worcester round 5 (starts ~ 05:23:23 on http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/v/5352655)
Nb : Congrats to him for his finish btw.

Andrew resolves a lethal NO -> Hoof, but he could have done it spell pierce proof :

Board : Bayou Forest Cradle Symbiote Birchlore Quirion
Hand : Heritage Decay NO Fetch

Cast Heritage with Forest, tap all 3 elves (GGG)
Untap Birchlore with Quiron (returning Forest)
Play that Forest and cast Decay (targeting G.Cage) with Bayou + Forest
Untap Quirion with Symbiote (returning Heritage)
Cast Heritage again (GG), tap Cradle for GGGG (GGGGGG), cast NO (GG)

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He can even have done it double-pierce (opponent has 1 tundra + 1 fetch untapped) and flusterstorm proof:
Tap forest, cast heritage (1)
Fetch ==> dryad
tap cradle for GG GGG
tab bayou for B
play decay (storm 2, GGGG)
play NO, sacrificing arbor (storm 3)
if flusterstorm, tap 3 elves for heritage (GGG), untap quirion + birchlore => GGGG. (double pierce/FStorm proof)
hoof Attack for 14.

But it's non-lethal in the Flusterstorm scenario :-p (just kidding) (better non-lethal than countered anyway)

Hi all,

I was tampering with some legacy Elf theory and wanted thoughts on the following sideboard if possible. My meta is primarily blue decks (Delver variants, Miracles, Show and Tell variants, Stoneblade Variants, and Grixis Control). With that in mind I have the following as my sideboard:


1 Slyvan Library
1 Null Rod
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Pithing Needle
2 Choke
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Stain the Mind (trying this as a quick cranial extraction effect for combo and miracles only)

Any sideboard guideline suggestions? I have looked at the front page ones but they seem more prevalent before the 4 Natural Order was in the main along with the Treasure Cruse Meta.

with that sb, it looks like you know where you need the stain--most likely bring in the CTs in the same matchups

decay comes in for a LOT of matchups...delver variants, jund, DnT, painter, miracles, stoneblade variants, the list goes on. Basically this is out catch-all hate card that takes care of things like grafdiggers cage, e.plague, tarmogoyf, delver, opposing DRS, blood moon, painters servant, etc.

rec sage is self-explanatory imo...there are honestly only a few matchups I wouldn't want him in my 60. Most people's elf-hate revolves around an enchantment or artifact--and if not, their win-con might.

null rod is for storm, miracles, stoneblade, MUD, and DnT

needle is for miracles, lands, Sneak n show, any deck w/planeswalker, DnT, painter, and basically any time you see a random ability that needs turning off.

library is for grindy matchups like miracles, jund, shardless bug, and mono black

choke is for decks with basic islands or whose duals happen to also all be islands (miracles, jeskai stoneblade, omnitell)

scooze is fairly obv too, but he's also good vs most lightning bolt decks as it is easy to make him a 4/4+. Some decks can't beat a resolved scooze...Rug delver comes to mind.

I'm sure I missed some things, but that'll give you a starting point. ^_^

Goldfishing with the combo-oriented (4 Heritage/Nettle/spells, no Sage/Ooze) maindeck, -1 Hoof, +1 Ruric, +1 WRP is feeling pretty good. The idea is to emphasize both parts of Elves: The consistency and explosiveness of the combo build with an Empty the Warrens-esque get ahead plan against both fair decks and combo with T2 NO=>Ruric/WRP, and work a bit on Elves' other problem - that we're a ramp deck and play a shitton of mana that tends to be useless. Turns out, adding lower-cost bombs for GSZ, an additional hardcastable bomb in WRP, and just plain having WRP instead of Ooze as a better mana sink makes those aspects a lot more tolerable. You're more likely to draw into action, and just having WRP online makes masses of lands actually tolerable because you'll take over the game that much faster. It's a small change, but I think a very worthwhile one.

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Goldfishing with the combo-oriented (4 Heritage/Nettle/spells, no Sage/Ooze) maindeck, -1 Hoof, +1 Ruric, +1 WRP is feeling pretty good. The idea is to emphasize both parts of Elves: The consistency and explosiveness of the combo build with an Empty the Warrens-esque get ahead plan against both fair decks and combo with T2 NO=>Ruric/WRP, and work a bit on Elves' other problem - that we're a ramp deck and play a shitton of mana that tends to be useless. Turns out, adding lower-cost bombs for GSZ, an additional hardcastable bomb in WRP, and just plain having WRP instead of Ooze as a better mana sink makes those aspects a lot more tolerable. You're more likely to draw into action, and just having WRP online makes masses of lands actually tolerable because you'll take over the game that much faster. It's a small change, but I think a very worthwhile one.

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It might be an idea to trade in Hoof nr. 2 for that WRP. At the moment, I'm running a full on combo build. No Cradles, no maindeck disruption, instead 4 Birchlore, 4 Heritage Druids, only 1 Arbor and 3 NO's and 2+2 Llanowar Elves/Fyndhorn Elves. It's speedy as hell and needs a nice mana-sink for when I've emptied my hand. WRP suits that bill just fine. Running 28 Elves (and 32 creatures to chain Glimpse with) is quite nice.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

It might be an idea to trade in Hoof nr. 2 for that WRP. At the moment, I'm running a full on combo build. No Cradles, no maindeck disruption, instead 4 Birchlore, 4 Heritage Druids, only 1 Arbor and 3 NO's and 2+2 Llanowar Elves/Fyndhorn Elves. It's speedy as hell and needs a nice mana-sink for when I've emptied my hand. WRP suits that bill just fine. Running 28 Elves (and 32 creatures to chain Glimpse with) is quite nice.

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That's pretty extreme. If you're cutting Cradle though I'd really want to play some Therapies to get closer to ANT's ratios on mana/wins/manipulation/disruption. The current builds are close but replace 4-6 of the 6 disruption slots with mana.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

It might be an idea to trade in Hoof nr. 2 for that WRP. At the moment, I'm running a full on combo build. No Cradles, no maindeck disruption, instead 4 Birchlore, 4 Heritage Druids, only 1 Arbor and 3 NO's and 2+2 Llanowar Elves/Fyndhorn Elves. It's speedy as hell and needs a nice mana-sink for when I've emptied my hand. WRP suits that bill just fine. Running 28 Elves (and 32 creatures to chain Glimpse with) is quite nice.

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Why in the name of all things good would you cut Cradle in a *combo* build? Its by far the most combo-rific part of the deck.

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Originally Posted by IMarques

Why in the name of all things good would you cut Cradle in a *combo* build? Its by far the most combo-rific part of the deck.

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B/c Cradle doesn't draw me cards when chaining a Glimpse.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

B/c Cradle doesn't draw me cards when chaining a Glimpse.

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Yup. Cradle's pretty amazing in the style of build I went for which focuses on a quick, devastating NO. But going all in on Glimpse you just want critters.

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Yup. Cradle's pretty amazing in the style of build I went for which focuses on a quick, devastating NO. But going all in on Glimpse you just want critters.

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Interesting. I am a bit skeptical, but will admit I have not played around with this configuration. I would want to goldfish some to be sure, but pretty sure that the mana generated from the Cradle will consistently get you early Glimpse turns faster. Most of the times I've been able to combo off early with Glimpse involved a lot of Cradle mana at some point to keep from petering out and/or to fuel the Craterhoof kill at the end.

Could one of you guys post a list for this version?

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Originally Posted by IMarques

Could one of you guys post a list for this version?

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Here you go:

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
3 Natural Order

4 Elvish Visionary
4 Heritage Druid
4 Birchlore Rangers
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Fyndhorn Elves
2 Llanowar Elves
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote

1 Dryad Arbor
2 Craterhoof Behemoth

4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
2 Bayou

The problem with this version isn't the goldfishing, it's actually being able to fight an opponent over resources. It's a lot harder to power out NO/GSZ/Craterhoof when under pressure. Basically, you trade easy, late game blowouts (Cradle into Cradle with 3 creatures on the board for a hardcast Craterhoof, that kind of stuff) for some more speed/explosiveness.

One of the most powerful things you can do, funnily enough, is T1 land -> Llanowar/Fyndhorn Elves. Starting T2, you can abuse the shit out of Quirion Ranger/Wirewood Symbiote untaps. I think this version might also want something like Timberwatch Elf to use for similar ends. Empty your hand, GSZ for Timberwatch, YOLO.

I believe this version is a bit of a throwback to an earlier version of the Elves!-deck with this being an obsolete version for a very good reason. With that being said, I do love playing this configuration and while not as robust as the standard list it does have its merrits :smile:.

Do we mulligan to 7 and Counterbalance is no longer a card? There is a reason Elves evolved from the Glimpse focus over the years towards a deck which can handle hate. Combo Elves was bad 3 years ago because because you were too dependent on Glimpse resolving and unable to recover from a sweeper. I don't see a reason or metagame development which would lead me to think it's the time to pickup that old idea again

Uh, he said the deck was probably worse than the current NO-oriented builds and that he was just playing it for fun? You want to tear something meant for serious play to shreds, go to town on my previous take that going -1 Hoof +1 Ruric +1 WRP is an upgrade on Merriam/Jessup list.