[Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

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Originally Posted by Dumpsterac1d

A good example that's popped up occasionally is I'm slightly going off with 2 Enchantress effects out and I need to draw an Enchantment as my next card or I have to stop. Most likely, I need to draw and find something like Solitary at that point... With 5 mana available and two cards (a 1CMC Enchantment and Tutor) I can cast ETutor, Draw into what I searched for plus one card, cast Solitary and end the turn with three cards in hand.

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Except, if the E Tutor had been another enchantmentin your deck itself instead of an instant, you'd have drawn even more cards so I'm not sure that logic works :wink:

(the argument of having to find Solitary in situation X is probably a good one - but the one about "I need to draw an Enchantment as my next card or I have to stop." isn't valid I think:




2 cards in hand, 2 enchantress effects, approximately 50% of the deck being an enchantment simplified to each card drawn = 0,5 enchantments:
(as we're not digging for Solitary specifically in this generalized thought exercise, I'll just count each spell as 1 mana to see how deep you dig)

1) 2 cards are Enchantment + Tutor:
-cast Enchantment, 2 draw triggers, cast tutor in response = 3 mana left, 0 cards in hand
-all resolve: 2 cards in hand, of which 1 certainly an enchantment (the tutored card), the second having a 50% chance of being an enchantment = 1,5 enchantments in hand
-cast your 1,5 enchantments in hand, draw 3 more cards = 1,5 mana left to use, 3,5 cards in hand of which 1,5 enchantments
-cast your 1,5 enchantments in hand, draw 3 more cards = 0 mana left to use, 5 cards in hand of which 1,5 enchantments

So with Tutor you'll end the turn with on average 5 cards in hand of which on avg 1,5 enchantments to continue next turn.


2) 2 cards are Enchantment + Enchantment
-cast Enchantment 1 and 2; 4 draw triggers = 3 mana left, 4 cards in hand of which 2 enchantments
-cast your 2 newly drawn enchantments = 4 draw triggers = 1 mana left, 6 cards in hand of which 2 enchantments
-1 mana left to cast 1 more enchantment = 2 new draws of which 1 will be an enchantment -> 0 mana left, 7 cards in hand of which 2 enchantments

So without Tutor you'll end the turn with7 cards in hand of which 2 enchantments to continue next turn.



Of course this is very simplified, as chances aren't exactly 50%, as CMC isn't always 1, but I think it still sort of shows that the 'tutor up necessary bullet to win/survive' is probably the only argument for Tutor, not the "I need to continue my draw chain to have enough cards to continue + discard to Solitary" argument :wink: as Tutor being an actual enchantment instead, would likely dig you even deeper more cosistently on average.

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Originally Posted by Dumpsterac1d

I'm trading my moxen + lotus in for a few of these cards and am gonna roll up a few different things to see what sticks. As far as a Blue wincon, we have [card]Sphinx's Tutelage[/card] ;) probably not good, but one spell cast = 2 cards milled with one Enchantress, one spell cast = 4 cards milled with 2 enchantresses, etc, combined with the way we can go off, it would be glorious. I'll invest .08 TIX to give it a shot, why not :)

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Please update us how this performed!! This is exactly the kind of jank I love!!

EDIT: you should have a maindeck out to them milling Emrakul though, as Sneaky Show is probably like 10% of the MTGO meta right now... you don't want to be left without a wincon against that many decks :P

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Originally Posted by Fjaulnir

Haven't had time to watch the videos yet, but do you stream Enchantress? or just recorded these videos 1 time randomly? I'd love to watch people play Enchantress once in a while so I can maintain/update my knowledge of the deck while I'm currently not playing it myself.
(and possibly discuss difficult play scenarios etc)

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I'm hoping to stream more. I've started recording myself to capture my thought process and misplays, and just recently gathered courage to stream and share the videos now. I'm in the USA...

Quick update, game 1 was a complete blowout against a deck with Through the Breach (Don't know the meta yet). Before I had RiP out to exile everything, I had run into Emrakul probably 4 times while milling, and I had 27 or so cards left in my deck by the time RiP came down, and I annihilated the opponent. AND they had a turn 1 Chalice on 1. By the end I had 2 Tutelage and three Enchantresses, milling 12 per spell.

Blue Kismet (Frozen Aether) did so much work in combination with B2Basics that both need to be 3-ofs in the main.

Had to record a screengrab of the replay, uploading it to youtube now (yes, the other player pretty much biffed since the next two games they won on turn 2, but it's still pretty insane to watch)

Nice!

That reminds me of Tutelage being a grindstone-like combo with Painters Servant, I guess there's no way to integrate that card into Enchantress profitably?
(It being a removal magnet since all our other cards are Bolt/Push/Stp proof)

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Originally Posted by Fjaulnir

Nice!

That reminds me of Tutelage being a grindstone-like combo with Painters Servant, I guess there's no way to integrate that card into Enchantress profitably?
(It being a removal magnet since all our other cards are Bolt/Push/Stp proof)

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Wow, didn't even think of that. Will try that in the long term, I forgot to buy Energy Field for testing and another RiP to make that card work...

In some cases it's just faster than normal Enchantress even though it has more components. So, most likely wincon is mill to death, second wincon is 2 RiPs and one Helm, third I've never used, but it's Emrakul, basically been useful if my Library is low and I discard it to refill. Have been clise to casting it once or twice, but an abundance of mana doesn't come easy in this deck since it runs the sweet sweet nonbo of Back to Basics and Sanctum. Didn't think it'd be much of a problem but sometimes I either need to tap for W for RiP or against decks that tax mana my options are slim. Another piece of hate that seems to work is Tabernacle. That and Elephant Grass combined with B2B is pretty good. Removal is taking Blue form, seal of Removal for bounce, Pendrell Flux is good at either slowing folks down or losing p/t on board.

Overall, right now it's definitely worse than GW enchantress, but it has been a lot faster.

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Originally Posted by Dumpsterac1d

.... I forgot to buy Energy Field for testing and another RiP to make that card work...

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I used to run Web of Inertia along with the Energy Fields and RIP's when I was on blue splash with enchantress ... it is very interesting card even if RIP is destroyed/countered/(whatever...) especially against aggro decks.... opponents never had a clue about this card :laugh:

For anyone that runs a blue splash.

What do you think about this card as a possible 1 of?

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...verseid=426775

I think Enchantress has enough card draw.

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Originally Posted by Fjaulnir

Nice!

That reminds me of Tutelage being a grindstone-like combo with Painters Servant, I guess there's no way to integrate that card into Enchantress profitably?
(It being a removal magnet since all our other cards are Bolt/Push/Stp proof)

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Sure, have painter servant name black and none of your opponents can attack if you have elephant grass out

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Originally Posted by Gozerfish

Sure, have painter servant name black and none of your opponents can attack if you have elephant grass out

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Wow. Did not think of that. Bonus!

For anyone who needs to see what some bad draws can do vs. the very first game I ever played with "G/U/w Enchantress" and an unoptimized list:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=picvOdIQci4

Notice how many times Emrakul shuffled his GY back in and I still managed to deck them.

Re: Additional SB cards for Elves

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Originally Posted by Freggle

The card you want is Torpor Orb I believe.

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Originally Posted by hovercraft

Could Torpor Orb work? Not an enchantment, but still Etutorable. Would shut down Visionary and Craterhoof too I believe.

edit: too slow haha

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Thanks for the coordinated thoughts! :smile:

I ended up opting for something that doesn't work as well in normal Enchantress builds: A second Rule of Law, for both Elves and Storm, and another Enlightened Tutor, which'll come in against most combo decks + a few others like D&T. Kind of a Rip/Helm/engine light-specific solution, but it's been good so far.

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Originally Posted by Gozerfish

Sure, have painter servant name black and none of your opponents can attack if you have elephant grass out

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That's genious! :D

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Originally Posted by Fjaulnir

That's genious! :D

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Not really as I actually tried using darkest hour to accomplish the same thing before but was just not worth it. The one card I play for elves is peacekeeper. Elves has built in enchantment hate with rec sage find enchantments aren't great.

If you are playing rule of law, you could play cloudstone curio to be able to bounce it back on your turn.

"G/U/w Enchantress" or whatever this is turning into has its own development thread here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...22#post1005922

Don't want to bog down this one. Thinking it needs its own thread as well since the focus of the deck has become prison and we're talking about mill cards...

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Originally Posted by Gozerfish

Not really as I actually tried using darkest hour to accomplish the same thing before but was just not worth it. The one card I play for elves is peacekeeper. Elves has built in enchantment hate with rec sage find enchantments aren't great.

If you are playing rule of law, you could play cloudstone curio to be able to bounce it back on your turn.

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Except Painter would be part of a win condition in the blue version of this deck so we most likely wouldn't pass the turn before they'd lose. Like, it's just a bonus that you can name "black" for Elephant Grass, but it's a corner case scenario. I anticipate keeping Painter at least until 1 Enchantress and 1 Sphinx's Tutelage is out, casting painter and then casting Seal of Removal or Utopia Sprawl or something.

Wondering if Tutelage is good or bad for Brainstorm? Like when they cast it with Tutelage effect on the stack? Kind of makes Brainstorm much better, right? :(

Have you guys played against Lands lately? I used to feel like that matchup was nearly an auto-win, but with their switch to Ghost Quarter it seems way worse. My buddy and I were jamming some games last night, and it was basically RIP or bust. If it wasn't such a nonbo with RIP, Sacred Ground would look pretty strong :laugh:.

Poor, poor Enchantress.

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Originally Posted by Stuart

Have you guys played against Lands lately? I used to feel like that matchup was nearly an auto-win, but with their switch to Ghost Quarter it seems way worse. My buddy and I were jamming some games last night, and it was basically RIP or bust. If it wasn't such a nonbo with RIP, Sacred Ground would look pretty strong :laugh:.

Poor, poor Enchantress.

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When playing on MTGO, where GhQ probably gained popularity long before in paper legacy, it was a hell to play against Ghost Quarter + Loam indeed. Most of my wins in those games involved shuffling my ghosted basics back into my deck with Emrakul :wink: so I'd have basics to fetch again.

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Originally Posted by Stuart

Have you guys played against Lands lately? I used to feel like that matchup was nearly an auto-win, but with their switch to Ghost Quarter it seems way worse. My buddy and I were jamming some games last night, and it was basically RIP or bust. If it wasn't such a nonbo with RIP, Sacred Ground would look pretty strong :laugh:.

Poor, poor Enchantress.

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Still don't find that hard. You have elephant grass to keep Mario large from attacking, you can use suppression field to make lands cost more, can use peacekeeper if they do not have direct damage. Have humility to change to 1:1. So although not all the answers in main board, certainly enough side board.

Due to my working shift, I can no longer attend and join my friends on FNM Legacy night. Where we normally have 8-12 people depending on the week. Today I was able to play a bunch of games with a friend, and we played a bunch of Stone Blade vs Enchantress. He won the 1st best of 3 with a 2-1 record. We started fresh again pre-board and everything. I won the second best of 3 with a 2-0 sweep.

During this time, we were talking about my match ups, as to what I may be worried against. I told him sneak attack, Elves, Reanimator and storm combo decks, and that I am worried about Leovold. A card was brought up and I was wondering what you all think about it:

Hallowed Moonlight

This card, while it also replaces itself, also stops/affects:

- Reanimator
- Elves
- TES (if they go with Empty the Warrens)
- Sneak Attack
- Land's Marit Lage
- Dredge
- Leovold of GSZ
- Decks running Aether Vial

I am sure there's more, such as those that makes tokens like Young Pyromancer, Batterskull token, and etc. However, I was just wondering if this would be a great SB card for decks that runs Replenish or maybe even to those that doesn't. As it can just be cast and replace itself when it is dead. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Claymore1

Due to my working shift, I can no longer attend and join my friends on FNM Legacy night. Where we normally have 8-12 people depending on the week. Today I was able to play a bunch of games with a friend, and we played a bunch of Stone Blade vs Enchantress. He won the 1st best of 3 with a 2-1 record. We started fresh again pre-board and everything. I won the second best of 3 with a 2-0 sweep.

During this time, we were talking about my match ups, as to what I may be worried against. I told him sneak attack, Elves, Reanimator and storm combo decks, and that I am worried about Leovold. A card was brought up and I was wondering what you all think about it:

Hallowed Moonlight

This card, while it also replaces itself, also stops/affects:

- Reanimator
- Elves
- TES (if they go with Empty the Warrens)
- Sneak Attack
- Land's Marit Lage
- Dredge
- Leovold of GSZ
- Decks running Aether Vial

I am sure there's more, such as those that makes tokens like Young Pyromancer, Batterskull token, and etc. However, I was just wondering if this would be a great SB card for decks that runs Replenish or maybe even to those that doesn't. As it can just be cast and replace itself when it is dead. Thanks.

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