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No, just saying it hurt my wallet. I like the Vial builds, but Zenith still adds an element of consistency to the deck, even with Thalia and Teeg hurting it.
I wouldn't use an E-Tutor sideboard against blue decks, you can't really afford the negative CA, especially for such a minor effect. If you want to play 3-4 copies main or side, go for it (maybe in Thalia's slots).
Hello guys! This I'm running with good results, any sugests?
Main deck (60 cards):
2 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Kor Haven
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
21 lands
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Mother of Runes
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Deathrite Shaman
23 creatures
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
4 Green Sun's Zenith
16 other spells
Sideboard:
3 Ashen Rider
3 Golgari Charm
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Duress
3 Surgical Extraction
I'm curious as to why people have been moving away from Depths/stage combo. The opportunity cost seems low enough to me that there is no reason not to play it. If some lists can still afford to play Maze of Ith, then really all you are trading is a colored land for the colorless stage. I find that it helps me win games I would have otherwise no business winning, and the games they have an answer for it were games that I probably wasn't going to win anyways. Even opening with either piece isn't terrible, because it reduces the amount of times you actually have to activate knight, or can be wasteland bait when you are on the traditional Maverick plan.
Maverick in the top 8 and on camera at SCG Det. :D
I was watching, his play was awesome! Might have to grab some stuff for black splash at this point.
ETutor for Choke when they tap out is pretty damn strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by bakofried
Having no Abrupt Decays at all seems a little loose though. Still a great performance and happy to see KOTR get some camera love.
Yeah I was surprised to see 4 Pridemage, 0 Decay.Quote:
Originally Posted by bumgun
I don't disagree though when he has access to 6 Swords to Plowshares; Abrupt Decay is often just another Swords to Plowshares.
Pridemage is pretty great for applying pressure and fills a bit different role as a result.
Congratulations to him for making his way into top 8.
EDIT: Here's the list by the way..
Maverick, by Thomas Herzog
With 4 Qasali in the 75 and 4 Thalia in the main, it seems like Abrupt Decay (at least maindeck) would become a bit cost-prohibitive in conjunction with his other noncreatures.
I kind of don't like his list, although he top 8'ed. Playing 2 libraries, 2 different swords, 4 thalias all seems a bit strange to me. It would be interesting to know which match-ups he had.
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I made room for an extra sword recently, and I've liked it a lot. SoFI is great against RUG, Merfolk and TNN decks, and it has the strongest abilities in a vacuum. SoLS protects you from the best removal spell in the format, which is huge, and its abilities are fine. Together with Jitte they just about cover every eventuality, and having three pieces of equipment reduces the chance of a late game topdecked Stoneforge Mystic being a mere Squire. I keep considering Batterskull, but it never makes the cut; I keep suspecting it'll be fine but I never find the space.
Overall, I like Herzog's list, but I think I'd make room for a curve topper or two; the last time I played GWb I had Sigarda and Elspeth, and was happy with both.
Hello, I'm a good friend of Tom and I was already here to say hey to the other Enchantress players (since I got the deck tech) so I thought I'd check in here as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuhl
Tom doesn't use the Source, but that's okay because his list is derived from mine (like 70 of my 75) and I've been playing Maverick well before it was called Maverick (2010 at least http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=5563&iddeck=40280) and have a ridiculous amount of local 1k first place finishes with Maverick, as well as top 8'ing SCG Indy Legacy Open a year or two ago with it. I can also apparently be seen in his feature match eating an apple and being the water boy for Tom. :)
For reference, my list looks like:
4 Mother of Runes
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Thalia
3 Qasili Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavening Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Misty Rainforst
3 Savannah
2 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Qasili Pridemage
1 Scavening Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Thurn, the Last Troll
1 Darkblast
1 Umezwa's Jitte
1 Bojuka Bog
As far as Tom, I'm pretty sure at least half his matches were against Stoneblade decks, as every time I'd see him I'd ask him how it went and he's have this big 'ol goofy smile on his face when he'd be telling me about how his opponents kept trying to kill him with Batterskull and couldn't beat a 2/2 cat. His matchups in no particular order were: Stoneblade decks, Justin Opal playing BUG Delver for the win-and-in, Burn, Sneak and Show, Merfolk and I think a Metalworker deck.
In the quarters and semi's he played against RUG Delver, beating Ben Weinberg and losing to the eventual winner Morgan McLaughlin. Tom played pretty tight that day and I think it really showed (Did you see that attack with the triple 3/3 Mongeese!? Sick!), although he admittedly didn't respect Stifle. In the semi's everything just went perfect for the Delver player, with him being first seed and the typical turn 1 Delver, turn 2 blindflip. In game two Tom kept a 2 land hand (one of which was a Waste) and GSZ for Arbor, but he hesitated, so the RUG player just Bolt'ed the Arbor and they had a Wasteland fight where both players had zero permanents but his opponent just drew a Trop and rode a lone Mongoose for 6 turns.
As far as the list goes, it's the same base I've been using for while to great success. There is no excuse for no Deathrite Shamans at this point. I too enjoy straight GW better, but he's so good you can't not play him. You can't afford to keep running creatures that get rolled to a Golgari Charm. You've got to push damage through TTN and groundstalls. You get free wins against graveyard decks. You can skimp on gravehate.
With the black splash you also get Zealous Persecution which helps with the nightmare match of Elves, and is great against Death and Taxes, Goblin tokens and TNN. You even get to attack combo decks on a different angle with Thoughseize.
There is no doubt in my mind that 2 Sylvan Libraries is 100% correct. Fix your draws for the rest of the game. Only draw what you need, never lose top deck wars. Your pretty much never going to draw 2 Libraries since you just never draw the second when you already have one.
4 Thalias? Yeah. Turn one mana guy, turn 2 Thalia-Wasteland is the nuts. I also like dunking the combo decks.
3 random equipment's? Not really. There are 2 Stoneforges so that you can find whichever one is relevant to the match your in. I've been doing the x Stoneforge, same 3 equipments since I started playing this deck. I don't like all Jittes because Jittes are terrible against combo and control, whereas the opposite is true for the Swords. The Swords also protect your bears that you need against combo and Miracles. All 3 generate card advantage in a deck that has very few ways to do so. These also go along very well with the Cradle, as you can power out and equip the same turn.
4 Pridemages is awesome. The most played decks are trying to kill you with Batterskulls and Jittes. It's no coincidence this deck slam dunks Stoneblade any day of the week. Pretty much had utility against most decks in Legacy as almost everyone has some artifacts or enchantments they want to exploit.
Playing with Abrupt Decays seems loose to me. Thalia is a big part of the deck and 3 mana removal spells are not where you want to be. Why pay more than you have too? You don't need Decay to stop a Jitte or Batterskull, you have 4x Pridemage and 4x GSZ.
Anyhow, those are my thoughts, not necessarily yours. Looks like I've answered about everything you guys had for now. At the very least, now you have something to think about.
May all of your turn 1 Mothers go unanswered.
What about not playing Scryb Ranger. It is nuts in so many situations with pro blue protection. I loved this card every time I had it on board.
Greetings
Jakub
Yeah, scryb ranger is one of my favorite creatures in maverick. Blocks delver, doubles mother/knight/mana dork, saves dryad arbor (waste->flash->save) and pushes through damage with equipments.
Did you never miss maze of ith, either? It will stop your opponents jitte and buy time. I have to admit that I also try to play without it at the moment, but in every 2nd game I get a situation in which it would be worth it.
Until the top 8 finish I wanted to try the stage combo again, but now I don't know xD. It's so difficult to say which list is better/has more success.
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Would you mind doing a quick sideboard strategy on what usually comes in/out against the top decks? Sounds you like have a lot of experience with Maverick and the format overall. I am fairly new to Legacy and would love a SB breakdown if you don't mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1mpulse
How essential is the singleton choke? Would moving SoLaS to the board (replacing Choke) for another stoneforge main be a bit more consistent?
Some people love it, but I am not one of those people. Most of the time you have an active Mom or Knight you're doing pretty well anyways. I also don't like putting cards that can end up being clunky in the deck. Yeah, you have GSZ, but I don't think that means you should go crazy with tutor targets. I feel that probably the biggest trap I see people fall into is that they think because you're running GSZ and Knight you should just jam a ton of crazy one-of's. Sure, in some cases it works out, but in other cases you're looking to try and play the game with a Sylvan Safekeeper, Scryb Ranger and Dark Depths against someone with a coherent game plan. Again, I also want to have as few x/1's in my deck as possible these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by kubalonek
Pretty much same thing about Maze of Ith as Scryb Ranger. If there is an equipment that needs to be dealt with, Cat Wizard will handle it. If it's a creature, generally, Swords to Plowshares or Jitte will handle it. I would rather run an actual answer to a permanent in a removal spell than a land that just stalls and has to potential to just be Wastelanded.Quote:
Did you never miss maze of ith, either? It will stop your opponents jitte and buy time. I have to admit that I also try to play without it at the moment, but in every 2nd game I get a situation in which it would be worth it.
I don't like Choke at all. That's why I don't play it. It's not a threat. You want Thalia against Blue decks, Thalia makes it cost 4. With Choke costing 4, it has an even high probably of getting Dazed and Spell Pierced. Choke isn't even very good against most of the Blue decks. Pretty much the only decks it's playable against are CounterTop and High Tide. The blue tempo decks are all high velocity need little mana and play Daze, so I wouldn't even board Choke in against them if it was in my board.Quote:
How essential is the singleton choke? Would moving SoLaS to the board (replacing Choke) for another stoneforge main be a bit more consistent?
I'm not sure what you looking for with your second question, on whether or not playing more Stoneforge Mystics in the deck would make it more consistent. I mean, if you add more Stoneforge Mystic to the deck... then yes, you will more consistently draw more Stoneforge Mystics. I don't like playing less than 3 equipments with Stoneforge Mystics since you really can't afford to draw Squires. I love Stoneforge Mystic, but I can only ever fit 2 in the deck.
Eh, I'm not really a fan of giving sideboard guides for a couple reasons. 1)They only really work out correctly if your playing someone's exact 75. I doubt many will be playing my exact 75 because everyone has preferences. 2) It's really important to understand why you are boarding the cards you are boarding. You just shouldn't do it because someone else said so. 3) This goes along with #2. Your opponents decks are going to be variable. For example, not all BUG Delver decks play True-Name Nemesis. Many are playing Dark Confidant instead. While that doesn't necessarily change that particular boarding strategy, you can see how when someone just gives you a guide, it can be dangerous to blindly follow it.Quote:
Would you mind doing a quick sideboard strategy on what usually comes in/out against the top decks? Sounds you like have a lot of experience with Maverick and the format overall. I am fairly new to Legacy and would love a SB breakdown if you don't mind.
Reason #1 is why I didn't really even go over boarding with Tom. We were talking about how to sideboard last week and it was super frustrating because I'd talk about how I board, then he'd always ask, "What about the Choke?," and I'd have to be like, "What about it? It's not in my board. That changes things."
Not saying I won't talk about it, but if so, it will have to be on the weekend. Too tired to think and type about it right now and tomorrow I'm gonna go play in a weekly.
There's currently a pretty interesting discussion in The Rock thread about Doran, the Siege Tower as GSZ-able Anti-TNN tech. As long as all equipment dies thanks to Pridemage, a 1/1 TNN isn't very impressive. It also upgrades Hierarchs, DRS and SFM into better beaters while being a non-GY-reliant threat by itself.
D&T can run 4 just fine, even without the ability to Brainstorm some equipment back. I'd love to see at least a third one.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1mpulse
My opinion is: -1 thalia, +1 sfm. I don't like 4 legendary permanents of one kind. Might be a dead draw, especially in the late game. But again its a very individual decision.
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SFM late if nothing else is a body. And sometimes a body to equip to is all you need