[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

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Originally Posted by Jeff

I've lost multiple games to Leovold so far with the entire combo in hand but an inability to get hellbent because of a Brainstorm in hand. It sucks. I don't have the answer yet though. I think it probably has something to do with racing him, like you say.

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In a situation like this, couldn't you simply cast your rituals, etc. then Infernal Tutor...then while holding priority cast brainstorm with tutor on the stack (skipping the draws because of Leovold but not the discard) and gaining hellbent by discarding whatever lands etc. stuck in your hand to the top of your library?

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Originally Posted by Miscanthus

In a situation like this, couldn't you simply cast your rituals, etc. then Infernal Tutor...then while holding priority cast brainstorm with tutor on the stack (skipping the draws because of Leovold but not the discard) and gaining hellbent by discarding whatever lands etc. stuck in your hand to the top of your library?

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Uhhhh . . . yes.

I'm an idiot. Or maybe that wasn't possible for some other reason? But honestly I don't remember considering that as an option, so I'm going to assume I just didn't think it through.

Won a 78 player event today with Chrome mox, adn, EtW, and 2 Decay main. Decays didnt really show up. Beat Infect, DnT, BR Reanimator, Eldrazi, Shardless, Aluren and Elves (SF Guy scooped after split). Lost to BUG Delver with Leovold. Empty won me a ton of matches, like it always does :p

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Originally Posted by JamieW89

Won a 78 player event today with Chrome mox, adn, EtW, and 2 Decay main. Decays didnt really show up. Beat Infect, DnT, BR Reanimator, Eldrazi, Shardless, Aluren and Elves (SF Guy scooped after split). Lost to BUG Delver with Leovold. Empty won me a ton of matches, like it always does :p

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I'm curious to know what you cut for decays MB.

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Originally Posted by CabalTherapy

I have tested 3 main Dazes in a local. It was horrible. Sample size was obviously way too small but it felt bad and I missed the business spells I had to cut for them. Maybe it was also because for the first time I left the house without Grim
Tutor. I have played Dazes in the board a few times and liked them though. It's definitely an option there.

If BR Reanimator will be even bigger we can run some real graveyard hate to fight this MU. I can definitely see myself going up with hate to accompany my lonely Extirpate at the moment.

Ah, and regarding Leovold, I don't feel like playing AD main since cutting on business or discard spells may put us in awkward spots with Leovold in play, Decay in hand, but no real action for the next turn(s). If I am unable to cantrip, I want to have the business already in hand before this junky boy enters the arena.

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Indeed, daze was meant for a sideboard option. I havd been really happy with it there.

I haven't played against Storm in a long while, but is ANT the version that can be hurt by graveyard hate?

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Originally Posted by Krimson Viper

I haven't played against Storm in a long while, but is ANT the version that can be hurt by graveyard hate?

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It CAN, but gy hate is not the most annoying hate we can face.

Between Cabal Ritual, Dark Petition, and Past in Flames, ANT certainly utilizes the grave more than most other storm variants, but grave hate is nothing that can't be played around. I'd much rather face a DRS or a RiP than a Thalia.

As a side note, every time I come back to the game Wizards prints another migraine inducing card against storm. Could you just not pls wizzro

They just want to put a anti combo hatebear in each set. So that a mono white deck could control the meta if it gets really combo. That hurts us obviusly.

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Originally Posted by Togores

They just want to put a anti combo hatebear in each set. So that a mono white deck could control the meta if it gets really combo. That hurts us obviusly.

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Well, the best hatebear right now is BUG-coloured. At least its context makes it the best one against Storm. I don't mind the mono W stuff.

Edit for the TES guys: While a good friend let me know that I have been quoted and misunderstood in some fb TES group, let me elaborate on that what I said, since people tend to overlook certain passages. Regarding my argument, I have explicitly
mentioned the importance of contexts. That means, Leovold while worse in stopping combo than Thalia, Cannonist, Teeg, is definitely stronger in its context: BUG decks. Paired with DRS, discard, cspells, he shuts off our chances to do something meaningful
where we still have to deal with other disruption. The mono W stuff although is better for us since we can still goldfish them easy without dealing with 3 angles of disruption but only 1.

Only for my ANT-friends:
With that said, I am having real trouble beating the newer BUG decks that play a tempo styled game but without Delver. I can only speak for myself but I am not satisfied with the answers we have to problematic MUs such as BR Reanimator or BUG, and it's certainly
a decisive factor I decided to skip the eternal weekend in Paris in spring; some rl stuff going on as well at that time (main event being the first day of me not being a student anymore and so on...). I also don't see me winning anything and will wait for summer to strike back.

Edit2 for SW who I know reads here: I am happy to realize the MU against a solid BUG player; I am sure they are worse players coming to Paris with the BUG builds but it's not worth it at the moment. Times change.

Agreed. New BUG is a pain.

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Originally Posted by bjholmes3

Agreed. New BUG is a pain.

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Glad to be a pain :P

I think you have to find some way of racing us.. Not easy when Leovold can come down T2 from a DRS, and we can BS to hide him from Thoughtseize but, I think you have to find a way. Once he hits the field it's been goodnight in all the games i've played.

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Originally Posted by J.Black

Glad to be a pain :P

I think you have to find some way of racing us.. Not easy when Leovold can come down T2 from a DRS, and we can BS to hide him from Thoughtseize but, I think you have to find a way. Once he hits the field it's been goodnight in all the games i've played.

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I've beaten him several times, but you just have to already have the combo in place, because you're not putting it together after he comes down.

G1 he's not too much of a big deal on his own unless your hand is just garbage, but G2-3 when he can draw into like a Flusterstorm it's not fun. I'll need to update the OP one of these days for this guy. Wizards, stop printing hate, you're making my job harder :D

Usually I don't bother disrupting Storm early game but now it's very tempting to daze/force your cantrips if I know I can stick a Leo early.

Maybe Chain of Vapor could be a nice way to play around him?

I've not faced the new Leo-faced menace, but looking at the decklists, it looks like they tend to run light on answers to Empty the Warrens. Might not be fast enough, but I was thinking that very light 'boarding (switching a Preordain and maybe Preordain #2 or a Chrome Mox for Empty and a couple of Decays, Chains, or Fatal Push) seemed like the best strategy. Ostensibly, we'd keep our discards to stop countermagic and we'd aim for a faster combo. Anyone had success with that type of strategy? Do tokens stand a chance of breaking through, or is it just not enough?

For people who've had some experience with the matchup, how difficult is it compared to Miracles or Chalices?

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Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce

I've not faced the new Leo-faced menace, but looking at the decklists, it looks like they tend to run light on answers to Empty the Warrens. Might not be fast enough, but I was thinking that very light 'boarding (switching a Preordain and maybe Preordain #2 or a Chrome Mox for Empty and a couple of Decays, Chains, or Fatal Push) seemed like the best strategy. Ostensibly, we'd keep our discards to stop countermagic and we'd aim for a faster combo. Anyone had success with that type of strategy? Do tokens stand a chance of breaking through, or is it just not enough?

For people who've had some experience with the matchup, how difficult is it compared to Miracles or Chalices?

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Goblins are always good, but we're talking about turn 1/2 combo, which is nothing new for us. On where we stand against it, well, It's not really comparable with chalice or balance. If they run the blue trap they can just leave it there and wait for the tendrills and then draw 10 cards, terrible proposition for us.

Until now I was lucky against leovold and could always win against it. But he's certainly a pain after boarding as CT explained. I think I'll test playing Thoughtseize in the Duress slots as I go off with Ad Nauseam in maybe 1 or 2 games out of 10. Has somebody already experience with it?

the massive presence of hate also in G1 made me swap a duress for a thoughtseize months ago......and now with Leo I find another reason to do it. It's true that G1 Leo can't dig for a fluster or mindbreak trap, but it's also true that "turn 1 fetch DTS, turn 2 leo" being on the draw kills all your cantrips, and if you don't have the right cards already in hand it's tough.
Goblins are good, moxes aren't imho. I think mox is good against decks that have ONLY permanent hate: having card disadvantage and being faster doens't help against counters (and free counters like Fow or trap) and hymn/duress/thoughtseize.

Is there anything holding you from playing a MB EtW for the case of seeing the opponent dropping a Leovold?