[Deck] Merfolk

@ Chuck:
My bad... I thought you were one of those people who refute conventional statistical analysis with straw-man type of arguments like "You aren't more likely to draw 'Card X' on any given draw just because there are more copies of them in your deck than 'Card Y.'" ...You'd be surprised some of the types of things people on this site try to argue.

Also, most of these comments were made while a little stoney, which probably made me more likely to jump to conclusions on what you were trying to say. Hope I didn't leave you with a bad taste in your mouth concerning the level of debate that goes on in these forums, I don't want to be that guy who berates new Sourcers for not much reason.

EDIT (for Merfolk-related content):

This is kind of a freaky-deaky suggestion as a sideboard card, but has anyone tried Tower of the Magistrate? Off the top of my head, it hits Affinity, MUD, and basically anything that plays equipment, with or without Stoneforge Mystic. Anyone see some potential there? It at least has more applications than my previous joke-suggestion of Manriki-Gusari as far as Stoneforge.deck hosers go.

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Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght

@ Chuck:

This is kind of a freaky-deaky suggestion as a sideboard card, but has anyone tried Tower of the Magistrate? Off the top of my head, it hits Affinity, MUD, and basically anything that plays equipment, with or without Stoneforge Mystic. Anyone see some potential there? It at least has more applications than my previous joke-suggestion of Manriki-Gusari as far as Stoneforge.deck hosers go.

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It's a good card, but you need to run 4 of them for it to matter.

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Originally Posted by unemployer

Kira looks really good but I'm not really sure with the Metamorph MD. Care to share why metamorph works MD?

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This is pretty obvious if you look at the break down of the SCG Cin top 16. Only 1 merfolk in the top 16 and how do you suppose he got there? Probably with the main deck kira(s) and metamorph(s) seeing as how 4 of the top 16 were NO RUG and having great targets to copy in almost all the decklists of the top 16.

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Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght

Also, most of these comments were made while a little stoney, which probably made me more likely to jump to conclusions on what you were trying to say.

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Awesome! :laugh:

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Originally Posted by crovakiet

This is pretty obvious if you look at the break down of the SCG Cin top 16. Only 1 merfolk in the top 16 and how do you suppose he got there? Probably with the main deck kira(s) and metamorph(s) seeing as how 4 of the top 16 were NO RUG and having great targets to copy in almost all the decklists of the top 16.

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I guess the question is, wouldn't Phantasmal Image usually be better than the Phyrexian Metamorph, even with all the Grim Lavamancers running around these days? I feel like having a cheaper overall casting cost, playing better with Aether Vial, and not potentially costing life to play are pretty good advantages that make up for the fragility and the inability to clone artifacts. Especially when you consider that since Metamorph is an artifact, there are a few things that will kill 'Morph that can't target Image legally...

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Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght

I guess the question is, wouldn't Phantasmal Image usually be better than the Phyrexian Metamorph, even with all the Grim Lavamancers running around these days? I feel like having a cheaper overall casting cost, playing better with Aether Vial, and not potentially costing life to play are pretty good advantages that make up for the fragility and the inability to clone artifacts. Especially when you consider that since Metamorph is an artifact, there are a few things that will kill 'Morph that can't target Image legally...

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You may just have to ask the guy why he chose metamorph(s) instead of phantasmal image(s) and piloted that particular merfolk list to 9th place in a top 16 field of pretty much aggro packing more removal maindeck (bolts and/or helix and/or plows) than other aggro control decks such as stoneblade (4 swords). I would think its because if its a competent merfolk player he would need to counter any spells that would lessen his board presence and/or tempo. Decreased board presence and/or tempo loss usually comes in the form of the opponent's removal spells. If you daze/misstep a removal spell on your illusion, it still dies so obviously you wouldn't bother countering but you still lost your illusion. Metamorph lives and beats of course if you had the counter. Can't jitte an illusion either. An illusion still dies from the first targetted spell/ability under Kira as well. Does that sound as if Kira maindeck and the illusion play nice with each other? So basically, you are only using image then for Progenitus/Emrakul other legends because doing anything else with the illusion against decks like NO RUG and zoo etc means its a dead card otherwise, an easy 1 for 1 whereas at least metamorph can do the whole legends kill thing and elsewhere can possibly live if copying a tarmogoyf, Knight of the reliquary with lands in the gy from the opponent's abuse, or just some 'growing' fatty due to the power creep these days in magic.

I don't know but I think it was a brilliant idea for that merfolk pilot to use metamorph instead of image in a field such as the one at SCG Cinn. Illusion definitely plays better with vial, no life loss, and costs 1 less mana to hardcast than metamorph, but I like the metamorph in merfolk and I guess the SCG Cinn pilot probably did too.

But hey what do I know? SCG Cinn also had a burn deck place 15th...so maybe the meta was just underdeveloped?

Let's see what SCG seattle has to offer.

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Originally Posted by crovakiet

But hey what do I know? SCG Cinn also had a burn deck place 15th...so maybe the meta was just underdeveloped?

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I know this is a bit off topic... but here it goes. I really found this interesting as well. I think that it might not be completely accurate to say a burn deck placing makes a meta underdeveloped. Counterbalance is seeing little or no play these days, for those of you that don't know, that was Burn/RDW's worse match up. This would make a Red Deck Wins or Burn build fairly competitive, or at least better to play now, as opposed to this time last year. However, generally more mature and/or better players like to actually play the game. Burn is not really a challenging deck to play, so generally, I would say that it doesn't have the best pilots. Just my two cents on the issue.

Back on topic, I think that both Metamorph and the Illusion both have their specific areas where they shine. I think this come down to a meta call and/or a personal preference call.

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Originally Posted by Sturtzilla

I think that both Metamorph and the Illusion both have their specific areas where they shine. I think this come down to a meta call and/or a personal preference call.

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This. Basically, Illusion provides raw speed, while Metamorph gives you flexibility and a little more resiliency (I would argue it's less resilient than it looks compared to Illusion though, since Metamorph still eats Grip, Pridemage, Grudge, etc.) Also, if there were ever two cards I could see doing a 1-1 split on, it would be these ones, since they essentially do the same thing, but with different strengths and weaknesses.

Side note: For anyone running Surgical Extractions in the sideboard, how have you been liking them? I feel like Faerie Macabre still has game these days, alongside Tormod's Crypt, plus I'm a little nervous about overloading the deck with Phyrexian mana symbols. But if someone out there is loving the hell out of Extractions, I'm definitely willing to listen.

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Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght

This. Basically, Illusion provides raw speed, while Metamorph gives you flexibility and a little more resiliency (I would argue it's less resilient than it looks compared to Illusion though, since Metamorph still eats Grip, Pridemage, Grudge, etc.) Also, if there were ever two cards I could see doing a 1-1 split on, it would be these ones, since they essentially do the same thing, but with different strengths and weaknesses.

Side note: For anyone running Surgical Extractions in the sideboard, how have you been liking them? I feel like Faerie Macabre still has game these days, alongside Tormod's Crypt, plus I'm a little nervous about overloading the deck with Phyrexian mana symbols. But if someone out there is loving the hell out of Extractions, I'm definitely willing to listen.

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I'm running Surgical Extractions, and I feel like it has more game than Faerie Macabre. I know this is yet again a danger of cool things, but an extraction after someone's intuition really sucks for them. I currently run a 2 Extraction/2 Relic split because my meta is heavy graveyard based.

I'm actually contemplating shipping my Surgical/Tormod's split for Leyline of the Void. And yes, for the love of God, I know it's terrible if you topdeck it. Here's my reasoning for trying it, however.

1. The majority of the decks I want my yard hate against eat it to Leyline worse than any other yard hate: Manaless Dredge, Regular Dredge, Cephalid Breakfast, Reanimator, and Loam-based decks do not want to see this card on the board, ever. Surgical's admittedly better against Loam probably, but there you go.

2. Merfolk is very well equipped to deal with all of these decks' means of removing Leyline of the Void. (Well, except for Krosan Grip.)

3. All of the deck's premier yard hate decks are strong against many other types of yard hate. Cephalid Breakfast runs Force of Will and has picked up Grand Abolisher. Manaless Dredge can be pretty solid at outracing one Crypt/Extraction/Macabre. Reanimator has Force and sometimes Thoughtseize, and Surgical Extraction is utter assballs against Careful Study/Exhume sometimes.

4. Leyline has the "Oops, I win" factor. It's uncounterable, it's uncircumventable, and it has to be removed or they just have to do without. All you have to do is draw it and, occasionally but not always, protect it.

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

I'm actually contemplating shipping my Surgical/Tormod's split for Leyline of the Void. And yes, for the love of God, I know it's terrible if you topdeck it. Here's my reasoning for trying it, however.

1. The majority of the decks I want my yard hate against eat it to Leyline worse than any other yard hate: Manaless Dredge, Regular Dredge, Cephalid Breakfast, Reanimator, and Loam-based decks do not want to see this card on the board, ever. Surgical's admittedly better against Loam probably, but there you go.

2. Merfolk is very well equipped to deal with all of these decks' means of removing Leyline of the Void. (Well, except for Krosan Grip.)

3. All of the deck's premier yard hate decks are strong against many other types of yard hate. Cephalid Breakfast runs Force of Will and has picked up Grand Abolisher. Manaless Dredge can be pretty solid at outracing one Crypt/Extraction/Macabre. Reanimator has Force and sometimes Thoughtseize, and Surgical Extraction is utter assballs against Careful Study/Exhume sometimes.

4. Leyline has the "Oops, I win" factor. It's uncounterable, it's uncircumventable, and it has to be removed or they just have to do without. All you have to do is draw it and, occasionally but not always, protect it.

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Interesting... I've seen the aforementioned split working a few times already, and in the middle of the game.
Is the risk of not starting with them worth it? Do you intend to mull a few times in order to search for it?

Also, did you test against manaless dredge? How did it go?

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

I'm actually contemplating shipping my Surgical/Tormod's split for Leyline of the Void. And yes, for the love of God, I know it's terrible if you topdeck it. Here's my reasoning for trying it, however.

1. The majority of the decks I want my yard hate against eat it to Leyline worse than any other yard hate: Manaless Dredge, Regular Dredge, Cephalid Breakfast, Reanimator, and Loam-based decks do not want to see this card on the board, ever. Surgical's admittedly better against Loam probably, but there you go.

2. Merfolk is very well equipped to deal with all of these decks' means of removing Leyline of the Void. (Well, except for Krosan Grip.)

3. All of the deck's premier yard hate decks are strong against many other types of yard hate. Cephalid Breakfast runs Force of Will and has picked up Grand Abolisher. Manaless Dredge can be pretty solid at outracing one Crypt/Extraction/Macabre. Reanimator has Force and sometimes Thoughtseize, and Surgical Extraction is utter assballs against Careful Study/Exhume sometimes.

4. Leyline has the "Oops, I win" factor. It's uncounterable, it's uncircumventable, and it has to be removed or they just have to do without. All you have to do is draw it and, occasionally but not always, protect it.

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If you're going to do that, you might consider doing the black splash. Makes the Leylines a little better, saves you some life on Dismember, and gives you a few more sideboard options like Perish and Engineered Plague.

What do you think about this list played by DARKING to a 4-1 finish in the magic-league.com Legacy trial last wednesday?


// Main Deck
12 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Cursecatcher
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merfolk Sovereign
3 Inkfathom Infiltrator
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 AEther Vial
4 Mental Misstep

// Sideboard
2 Echoing Truth
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Psionic Blast
2 Coast Watcher
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
2 Nix
3 Back to Basics


The matchups were:
Round 1: 2-1 Merfolk
Round 2: 2-1 The Rack
Round 3: 2-0 Rw Burn
Round 4: 2-1 UB Reanimate
Round 5: 1-2 Blue Zoo

Inkfathom Infiltrator + Umezawa's Jitte MD looks like a nice tech.

How do you adapt to the current metagame in general? People are saying that with the amount of Red Blasts and green decks, it's not the best time to be playing merfolk. Would you agree?

Floi

4 Merfolk Sovereign
3 Inkfathom Infiltrator

Looks really strange to me. Coralhelm Command is the second best Merfolk you have and should really be in there. Also, comboing with just 2 Jitte in your deck without a reliable way to draw it doesn't work very well. Not to mention godaweful sb choices like 2 Coast Watcher. If you really want a pro green guy against Maverick play four.

btw, no Dismember? This list keeps looking worse and worse.

That merfolk list looks absolutely terrible. Why play the infiltrator when you have lord and sovereign which give your merfolks unblockable most of the time? Coralhelm is way better as it can act as an additional lord when fully leveled, and it has flying which is just as good as unblockable in this format.

If you want to be fancy, i would rather run Cold-Eyed Selkie and draw bunch of cards.

And that sideboard is horrendous.

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Originally Posted by Kuma

If you're going to do that, you might consider doing the black splash. Makes the Leylines a little better, saves you some life on Dismember, and gives you a few more sideboard options like Perish and Engineered Plague.

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Here's why I'm not.

1. I wouldn't play Perish or Engineered Plague. They're too narrow and/or slow compared to other options.
2. Because of point 1, vulnerability to Wasteland knocking me off an already iffy double blue manabase isn't worth saving the life on Dismember and being able to play a Leyline of the Void on turn four, which is generally going to be too late anyway.

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Originally Posted by Gui

Interesting... I've seen the aforementioned split working a few times already, and in the middle of the game.
Is the risk of not starting with them worth it? Do you intend to mull a few times in order to search for it?

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It's a question of sheer power versus versatility. Right now, I want power. If I want anything other than sheer graveyard annihilation at maximum power, I'm probably going to just rely on counters and guys to get me there.

As for keeping, it'd depend on my hand and the matchup. Against Reanimator, if I see a Cursecatcher, a Force, a Pierce, a few lands, and a Lord? Sure. I'll keep that all day long and just try to outresource my opponent that game. If I'm up against Manaless Dredge, however, and I lost that first game? Absolutely. I'll aggro mulligan like a fiend for it.

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Also, did you test against manaless dredge? How did it go?

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Bad. Normal Dredge is so easy to beat for my build that I underestimated a competent Manaless list. Manaless Dredge requires you have a turn one Catcher and nothing but Lords and guys for the rest of the game to win game one, and even then it depends on their dredges. In capable hands, it's an absolutely horrible matchup. And if something happens in Innistrad to replace a couple bad cards, it's going to hit DTB status almost instantly.

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Originally Posted by nyoro

That merfolk list looks absolutely terrible. Why play the infiltrator when you have lord and sovereign which give your merfolks unblockable most of the time? Coralhelm is way better as it can act as an additional lord when fully leveled, and it has flying which is just as good as unblockable in this format.

If you want to be fancy, i would rather run Cold-Eyed Selkie and draw bunch of cards.

And that sideboard is horrendous.

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Agreed.

Psionic Blast over dismember just does not compute. I think a case can be made for MB jitte in certain metas (I personally run 3 dismember, 2 jitte -1 daze in my 4 flex spots). Yet the card does not feel required, or a replacement for MB removal.

The main benefit I see in jitte on an unblockable creature is finishing off an opponent a turn earlier. Playing and equipping jitte will slow your kill down by a turn - annulling any advantage. In most cases, it is not game-changing if your jitte equipped creature is blocked or not - the counters on jitte are the real concern. Sacrificing creatures prior to damage could be a concern, but outside goblin decks playing prospectors (such as dirty kitty) I do not see many decks that could heavily abuse that mechanic.

Perhaps I am not glimpsing the larger picture, but jitte on an unblockable creature does not seem all that impressive.

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

Here's why I'm not.



Bad. Normal Dredge is so easy to beat for my build that I underestimated a competent Manaless list. Manaless Dredge requires you have a turn one Catcher and nothing but Lords and guys for the rest of the game to win game one, and even then it depends on their dredges. In capable hands, it's an absolutely horrible matchup. And if something happens in Innistrad to replace a couple bad cards, it's going to hit DTB status almost instantly.

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I don't hinge on future set speculation to make or break whether the deck is going to be DTB. I seen post talking about cards in Future sight being from a theme of greece or ancient cultures on a respected MTG board. Merfolk is a good deck and has been from when it was a New and Developmental deck until now.

I think not playing with Standstills in the deck is a wrong direction since any card that lets you draw 3 for playing your deck is very good.

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Originally Posted by Shax

I think not playing with Standstills in the deck is a wrong direction since any card that lets you draw 3 for playing your deck is very good.

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But that is just considering your deck in a vacuum as opposed to evaluating the card in the meta. Are there better cards right now?

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Originally Posted by Shax

I think not playing with Standstills in the deck is a wrong direction since any card that lets you draw 3 for playing your deck is very good.

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Agreed. But we're talking about Standstill here which is at an all-time low in today's metagame where everyone and his mother has ways around it.