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@Rascal: Bloodghast beeing better than Ichorid is simply wrong.
1. No Haste
2. Doesnīt make bridgesex on his own
3. No Haste
4. Only good with a recurable land
Iīm currently testing him but Iīll never cut Ichorid as heīs probably the sickest card in the deck. For now it looks like a 4/3 split of Icho/Ghast is fine, because I refuse to use such a bad land as Oboro just to make Bloodghast work.
I'm just gonna mumble from the top of my head, I may be horribly wrong or maybe I am on to something!
The beauty of this deck is the insane synergy between cards that play through the graveyard which nets you more cards than other "regular" decks that only draw cards in their draw step.
Why do we have to be so super-duper fast? At the cost of "g3: I mulliganed into oblivion"? As Parcher says, 11 lands is enough to give you 1 land in your starting hand.
1 land, 1 Pimp, 1 dredger, 1 drawspell. Perfect!
T1: Land, Pimp
Opponent: Wasteland
?!
Sure, you can pitch dredger and draw via draw step. But your plan to cast the draw spell and go bonanza just went to the bin.
Why not make the deck a little more reliable, aaah, reliable, thats a word I miss with this deck. Recently there have been decks that pack 15 lands and 2-3 life from the loam and playing bloodghast (i'm not saying he's good). But that deck can take wasteland hits and perhaps get better starting hands.
But the deck gets slower. But as i said, why have to be super-duper fast?
43 lands isn't fast, but it abuses the graveyard for cardadvantage and zoo and merfolk decks can't handle 2-5 land cards hitting play each turn. We abuse the yard in the same way.
Just.. something like that..
Adding lands doesn't help the deck's speed or consistency, because you need to cut business to get the extra lands and Loams in, and they pretty much do nothing unless you're running the suboptimal Bloodghast. At this stage in the deck's development, there's pretty much nothing to cut for them. Also, getting the Loam engine active is by no means a fait accompli even on 15 lands. You have a 1/3 percent chance on opening up on the two lands you need to even cast a Loam, and god forbid your opponent should have a Waste to claim one. And then, assuming you get the two lands, dredger, discard outlet, possible draw spell hand you need to make a loam work by dredging into one, why would you even need it by that point? the 2-4 turns of dredging you've had by that point are more than enough to just, you know, win.
tldr version:
Game one is in the bag anyway, and you're falling into the "Danger of Cool Things" trap.
Not that I have any notes or testing behind this, and I wasn't promoting bloodghast.
But, once the dredgedeck gets going, it really gets going, it wins.
Why not try and get it consitently going instead of taking hazardous risks to get it going? I don't know how... but.... yeah you know! I'm thinking :)
If you're going for consistency, go talk in the LEDless ichorid thread. I hear they aim for consistency by not using LED and DA.
After I have seen Iona in action in some Reanimator-decks, I have been tickled a bit by it, is it possible to replace the 2 Hypnotists with 2 Ionas or play a 1/1 split? They both shut down the opponent's resources and I think she can fuck the crap out of Merfolks, Goblins, Mono Red Burn and especially Painter and Combo by herself.
And she is a hell of a beater unlike Hypnotist. But in exchange, she can't be pitched into Ichorids.
I run one Iona in the side, and even though you cant pitch it to things, a 7/7 flier is never irrelevant. And you're right, it does completely hose mono colored decks. Even with vials out you've won the game by DRing Iona. Definitely include one of her in the deck/sideboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adan
She hoses mono colored decks but still gives multi-colored decks a hard time. If you name their removal color, they'll be hopping around on one leg trying to deal with a 7/7 while you have all the time in the world now to set up a lethal zombies. I've liked her a lot - a fatty actually worth MBing in dredge.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
In theory a 1/1 split between Iona and Hypnotist also seems logical, Hypnotist can take the opponent's resources and Iona can back you up against topdecks (there are no real topdecks in Legcy, tho).
Or should ppl just play 2 Ionas maindeck instead of the Hypnotists? In that case I need to get a 2nd foil Iona...
Im moving towards a 1-1 split of Iona/Hypno. Either one is never errelevant, and is a game breaker. And as a split, you have a wee advantage of the opp not singling out a pair of hypnos or ionas when you dredge them. One shows up or the other, and you play from there. if both show up then lulz for someone.
And to the previous poster, there sure are topdecks in Legacy! It's just that a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while :cool:
I am learning to play LED Ichorid for the first time. Is it reasonable to say the Unmasks + Firestorm from the first post are metagame slots that should be adjusted as needed? For example in a metagame that has a significant number of graveyard abusing opponents should those slots be switched out for Leyline of the Void main deck?
Also I have read through this thread and saw an interesting DR target that did not get discussed a lot: Furystoke Giant. In theory it seems decent as a sideboard 1x card to win through Propaganda, Elephant Grass, etc. Thoughts?
Woodfall Primus fills up the DR slot for problem artifacts and enchantments I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by juzamjedi
Yeah woodfall primus seems to work just fine and better than furystoke giant...it can blow up almost everything that furystoke giant can except gaddock teeg which would not happen anyways because you couldn't cast DR then. And furystoke giant requires that you already have some creatures out without summoning sickness which seems unlikely so you'll have to take one extra turn to utilize it after you get a bunch of tokens but it's persist ability is nice for generating more tokens.
I usually play LED-less dredge, which does not opt for Hypno, but a 1/1 split sounds okay. 2x Iona is fine too because her main selling point is the zero-reliance on bridge strategy. Assuming the speed of LED versions, you can consistently power her out by turn 2 because you don't need to "combo off".Quote:
Originally Posted by Adan
Since I didnīt really had the motivation to play real mtg all day long I decided to play ParcherDredge once more.
GP:Trial Hamburg 39 players, 6 rounds of swiss+top8
I played with 1 Iona instead of 1 Hypnotist in the MD and it was the sickness! It won me 4 games I wouldnīt have won with Hypno nor any other DR target!
R1: DDANT 0-2 Due to mulligan to 4 in g1 and bad dredges g2, probably shouldve discarded that DD :/
R2: LEDless Dredge 2-1
R3: Ugr Tempo with Noughts and Lavamancer 2-0 Unmask on FoW, Land,LED,Breakthrough. lol :D Didnīt find a dredger in the first six, but it obv was still enough to kill him some turns later. G2 I just slowdredged him to death, never had problems.
R4: Death and Taxes with Greensplash, 3 Gaddocks MD, 4 Tabernacles+Crypts SB 2-1
Lost g2 due to Gaddock and me not drawing a firestorm but 3! Breakthroughs. Won g3 against turn 1 Tabernacle+double Crypt+Gaddock. Hell Iīm awesome.
R5: Merrows 2-0 ALmost lost g1 after Unmask taking Scratcher and him topdecking FoW for my Breakthrough but Iona > MonoColoured. G2 he opened with Relic+double Force backup for Tribe+P.Imp but as I already mentioned Iīm awesome and just drew two more Pimps. I even used Grudge to nail a Vial because Relic was just too narrow.
R6 75 card Mirror and heīs a friend of mine, we ID
Top8:
Quarters: Sascha Thomsen with Intuition Lands 2-1
Heīs probably the best land.dec player ever and Iīm really afraid of 3 Tolaria West+Tabernacle/GLacial Chasm and Crypt out of the sideboard.
I mull down to 4 game one and still lead with Coliseum, Breakthrough. I dredge for some turns until I got no dredgers left but skillful as I am I topdeck a City and can activate Coliseum. Since he managed to hit 7 spells and zero relevant lands in 4 dredges with loam I can reanimate Iona on Green and seal the deal. phew :D
In g2 he starts with Crypt,Wasteland,Chalice@zero. I just kept a hand of DDD+BReakthrough because I knew he only had 1 Crypt. He has to use his crypt some turns later but I fail at finding a dredge card in 10 cards so BT just sits there and he finds the Tabernacle in time.
I Donīt remember much about g3 but he opened with land,exploration,Tabernacle >.<. I just beat him down with 1 Ichorid cause he didnīt have the Loam. Funny Sidenote: I Opened with Land,Therapy on Intuition and hit one despite the fact that he sided 3/4 out :D
5-1-1
Semiīs: BW Aggro, Extirpate in Side 2-0
G1: Just crushed him.
G2: Made 3 really big mistakes because I just wasnīt concentrated at all due to some good friends sitting around me. He did only had some guys and firestorm just nuked them all out.
6-1-1 12-5
Since we were >32 players the finals were split and we both got 3 Byes for Madrid. YaY !
The Deck was awesome as always, Iīm seriously considering playing it at the GP. Allthough Hypnotist really sucks and Unmask is rarely good the whole 75 are just unstoppable.
Parcher, Iīd like to thank you for the SB guide and the awesome decklist!
Allthough I made some changes to the guide and after the last three tournaments I donīt really need it anymore, it was a great help to get into the deck.
Some Notes on the deck:
-Land,P.Imp is always good game
-Itīs not nearly as inconsistent as everybody tells, Iīm 16-2-2 in the last 3 tournaments now
-We dont want Hypnotist, is there ANY good black reanimate target?
- Bloodghast makes the deck worse, even without LED
greetz,
NQN
I don't think any of these are better than Iona/FKZ but...
Angel of Despair
Lacquatas' Champion
Broodmate Dragon
Ob Nixilis
Magister Sphinx
Malfegor
Zomg Magister Sphinx enables Bloodghasts :tongue:
I placed 9 at a 36 man GPT tournament this weekend with a "classic"/old list, with FKZ/Sphinx of Lost Truths, no Bloodghast, no MD Unmask, yada yada.
R1: vs StifleNought of some ilk
First game he counters a discard outlet, but I have another so I can start racing him. He does get a Dreadnought out, but it only beats me one time before I smack him down.
Second game he is to busy using all his resources holding me back and never really play any spells that matter before I win.
1-0
R2: vs Goblins
First game he mulligans to 3 (!) and loses.
Second game I just race him and win.
2-0
R3: vs Zoo
In the first game he tries to race me, but I get there faster.
In the second game, he gets out a Lavamancer and starts messing with my bridges, combining that with a superfast clock and I loose the first duel of the day.
Third game I win on turn 2 with haste-zombies.
3-0
R4: vs Goblins
This was the first interesting round. Mainly because it went to time (!) and because I made this huuuuge playmistake.
The first game he blows up my bridges, my Narcs and my Ichorids while building his boardposition, and I loose.
In the second game i'm a little bit faster, even with Earwig Squads stealing bridges and DR-targets.
It's in the third game I make my huge mistake. I have sided in Firestorm, and have it in hand from the start. We trade some creatures, he removes bridges and we fight it out. Soon enough I have beaten him to the point where he is at 6 life, i'm at 12 and we have 2 creatures each on the board. In play I have a Gemstone Mine with counters left, and in hand I have 7 cards, one of which is Firestorm. It is the first time-round. The correct play at this moment is to win. For some reason, even though I have been building up to this position for the last three turns, I completly forget what I'm doing and instead of just winning, I attack in with my creatures UNPROFITABLY leaving me with an empty board and him with two creatures. Now I realise what I have done, and burn him for 4 and clearing his board, at least being able to finish him off the round after that with my Ichorid unless he topdecks something. And then he plays Ravenous Trap. Draw.
3-0-1
R5: Dragon Stompy
I have no experience of this matchup or the DS-deck at all. I thought it was a slow deck. Apparently not.
First game, a dragon smacks me for 36 round 2, or something like that.
Second game, I neuter his hand with Unmask, but fail to do anything for the four rounds it takes him to land another dragon and smack me down.
3-1-1
R6: Merfolk
Here I make my second mistake. The player i'm facing is a very good one and i'm not really confident about the Merfolk-matchup, but it doesn't seem that I can make it into top8 by intentional draw even though I have fantastic tie breakers, so I decide to play. Big mistake.
First game I keep a bit sketchy hand, and two counterspells later i'm out of discardoutlets and he bashes me down.
Second game I keep another sketchy hand, being somewhat on tilt, and I see no dredgers in 19 cards, and then I die.
3-2-1
After the last game i'm at 10 points, and in the standings I see that 11 points would have been enough to Top8 with the fantastic tie breakers I have. D'oh!
---
With those MU:s I really should have had better results, and i'm very disappointed at missing Top8. I am, however, not at all disappointed with the deck. It's fantastic to play, and it's great to be "that guy" with "that deck". I will probably play it again this weekend.
Anyone try testing out Iona and E witness as the DR targets?
I think this deck may have a new DR target.
Terastodon 6gg
Creature - Elephant Rare
When Terastodon enters the battlefield, destroy up to three target noncreature permanents. For each permanent put into a graveyard this way, it's controller puts a 3/3 green Elephant creature token onto the battlefield. 9/9
The fact that he can destroy up to THREE noncreature permanents is huge. It ensures that we can attack freely by blowing up various enchantments that give us trouble. If nothing else, it can blow up lands and knock our opponent off a color. Additionally, he provides 18 power/toughness all by himself.
Edit: I am dumb and cannot read.
The way worded, he gives the 3/3s to the player, whose permanents you destroy, that is, your opponent...