@Delvis: what's your group's list?
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@Delvis: what's your group's list?
I don't want to share it without permission. I'll ask them tonight if it's kosher to share it now that the Mox event is over. Can't do it right now because FB is blocked on my work firewall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7
OK awesome thank you. Feel free to PM later too if that's better. Just trying to collect data.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delvis
Taking from Mengucci List, i've been trying
-4 reshapers
+1 jitte
+1 sofi
+2 Eldrazi obligator
You have 8 red sources i think 2 obligators main are decently castable. They are decent as 3/1 haste already as they give you some more explosive starts which reshaper don't give you. But more importantly, obligators destroy board stalls and make things like platinum emperium suck a dick, plus grizzlybear and emrakul if you have enough mana (can't snT obligator sadly as it is on-cast).
The problem is 8 red sources mean that you sometimes have those hands where it get in your hand and you have three ancient tombs. Whatever. We need this artifact :
Altar of offerings :0:
Artifact
T, put a random card from your hand on the bottom of your library: look at the top five cards of your library. You may choose and reveal a land card from it. If you do , add it to your hand and put the rest of the cards on the bottom of your library in any order.
EDH players would love this, that's for sure. But yeah, a weak point in this deck is no library manipulation and the fact we play multiples of cards like Eye of Ugin and City of Traitors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheizen64
Ancient Stirrings sounds like a plan. Even with Chalice of the Void (We don't always have the nut turn 1 Chalice)Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7
Ancient Stirrings sounds terrible. Please just don't.
Green versions have been running Sylvan Library as a consistency engine and as we know, Library in general is a good card. I'd look to that first.
Looking towards the red splash, Obligator is a good card, but I think Vile Aggregate is the true reason to go into an aggressive red variant. Having a very early creature that can dual with Goyfs seems potent, and it and Smasher having trample can be very relevant on stalled boards. To maximise him though blue is a natural partner due to strong Scion generators, but maybe it's good enough on its own anyway. Something to think about.
Went 5-2 at the Eternal Extravaganza 4 Satellite 5k in CT yesterday, good for 10th place. This was the list I ran:
Lands (24)
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra’s Factory
Creatures (21)
2 Endbringer
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
Spells (15)
2 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
SB
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Pithing Needle
1 All is Dust
2 Trinisphere
Beat Lands, Jund, Elves, UR Delver, and Miracles. Lost both my win-and-ins to Lands and D&T. Endbringer overperformed while Mox Diamond and Ratchet Bomb underperformed. There were roughly five people playing Eldrazi at the event, and I believe that I ended up posting the best record of the bunch. Some of us eldrazi pilots were sitting together at the end of the event debating the merits of different card choices. One guy swore that 4 Grim Monolith and 4 Lodestone Golem were crucial to the deck, but no one else really seemed to agree. At least everyone agreed that Mox Diamond is wrong, but we were split on whether that slot should just be another land and something else or spirit guides or monoliths. I will likely make the following changes for the SCG open next weekend:
MD
-2 Mox Diamond
-1 Cavern of Souls
+1 Mishra's Factory
+1 Wasteland
+1 Endbringer
SB
-2 Ratchet Bomb
+1 All is Dust
+1 Crucible of Worlds
I wanted to be running 2 Crucible at this event as well but my 2nd is still in the mail. Regarding Cavern of Souls, we all know that it is super powerful, but I think that in general we are already favored against non-combo blue decks where it shines brightest. Meanwhile, Factory and Wasteland are both great against D&T and Lands, which seem to be two of our worst matchups so far (note that I haven't gotten a chance to test against Sneak and Show or Reanimator, which I suspect are also bad matchups). I could also definitely see swapping out the two Trinispheres for Winter Orbs, as it seems like the matchups where the 3-ball is best, e.g. Storm, Elves, Delver, are also already quite positive for us, while the orb seems pretty spectacular against anything running Rishadan Port (screw that card!).
I'd love to hear any comments or questions on anything I've written so far, but I would especially love to hear how people are beating D&T. Between Wasteland, Port, Flickerwisp (resetting Chalice or killing Endless One), STP, and fliers plus equipment I've really struggled with it. In my 2nd game against D&T yesterday I also had the distinct pleasure of Mangara + Karakas + Vial on 3 first holding off my Jitte'd Endbringer and then, once the D&T pilot used Council's Judgement to get rid of my Jitte, getting most of my board slowly exiled with Mangara. Why wasn't I able to pressure D&T while this slow and painful death was happening? Because he had two Wilt-Leaf Liege in play (one put into play for free when he STPed my Reality Smasher...) and two 6/6s stonewall most of our threats. That game was... not my favorite.
i've been running a similar deck, although only had time to test it for one day. it's really close to the channelfireball list posted recently:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronicler
Lands (25)
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Mishra’s Factory
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
Creatures (23)
2 Endbringer
1 Masticore (could be 3rd endbringer)
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Spells (12)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
i've really liked having endbringer in the deck. you could consider running a 3rd urborg in the sb - this could give you access to massacre or dread of night if you're really worried about it (a bit trickier without mox though)
did you like revoker in the list? i felt it was just not in the style of the deck enough to want it.
you can also consider the 4 leyline of the void plan instead of other graveyard hate and it will also affect the lands matchup. some people are on that in the magic online leagues and there's a few 5-0's with it.
i also may consider changing my mana base a bit by cutting 3 cavern of souls and adding 2 mutavaults and a dust bowl. (i have wastelands, but this deck is pretty mana greedy, and i'm still testing out not playing wastelands at all.)
if you are on 2 crucibles sb wasteland makes a lot more sense. i'll probably end up playing wastelands again.
anyway, congrats.
As a DnT pilot, that play is FANTASTIC. I incidentally just put 2 Lieges back in my SB after a long absence and I was wondering how good they actually were against Eldrazi. Granted, that opportunity probably won't come around too often, but it sure must feel sweet when it happens. As for how to beat DnT, I guess that additional mana ramp like monoliths and mindstones could help you against the denial, although they're susceptible to revoker (oftentimes, you only need a 1 turn opening to break through though). Maindeck Jitte and removal are obviously quite good, but I think that DnT is just naturally resilient to stompy decks due to vial, basic lands, spread out mana curve, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronicler
EDIT: If you really hate rishadan port, try Tsabo's web I guess. Pretty useful against Lands too, I would imagine.
It isn't a good match-up, but it seems far from worst alongside Lands. Port is a bitch, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronicler
You already run Jitte, but I can tell you that Displacer helps alot in this match-ups. It holds back flyers (although flickering Flickerwisp isn't the greatest of ideas), takes care of Batterskull and ruins their equipment plan in general.
I didn't have a chance to playtest my 3 Containment Priests in the match-up yet since D&T is so rare on MTGO due to outrageous Port prices. It's a double-edged sword. One the one hand, it disables their Aether Vials (which are crucical for them in the match-up) and it powers up the exiler combo with Displacer, but on the other hand, it also turns their Flickerwisps into StPs. Not sure if it's worth it; it probably all depends on timing and draws. With all their utility creatures and equipment, Metamorph might also be cool (especially with Displacer).
Tsabo's Web disables Wasteland, Factory and Karakas (depending on what you run). Not a fan of such a narrow SB card.
One of the members of my group is taking the same 75 to the Open, so we're not giving out the list quite yet. I won't be surprised if it's public knowledge by this time next week, though, either via Deck Tech or having his list posted to SCG. If not, I'll send it to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7
If someone missed the Judge advice for Eldrazi:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...onundrums.html
Since Displacer get some love lately it should be important to mark, that if you exile Seer with Displacer you can choose the order of the triggers:
-see opponents hand first and exile a card and let them draw a fresh one (like Clique)
-or let him draw the new card and than check the hand and exile one card
----------
I will test the UW build today and see if it works or if i should stay GW (which worked for me good so far and Barook also got some nice results at MODO)
FB is blocked at my work, so I can't see if someone pointed this out in the comments, but she mentions in that article that Eye of Ugin reduces costs by {C}{C} (it's in the Painter's Servant question). That's incorrect, and a significant oversight. It reduces costs by {2}. Otherwise, it would be even more broken. Frankly, I'm surprised that she said that, given her credentials. I wouldn't be surprised if it was some kind of error by the editor.Quote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
What do you guys think on the discussion between white, UW and GW?
I love both double colored versions as they have plans for any game involving a non-combo opponent - I think white is necessary as it shores up all bad matchups (Lands, Show and Tell & Reanimator). As for the second color - Green seems good; blue might be good -> has anyone actually tested blue until now?
Blue is probably better against creatures, as you have tons of blockers and flying blockers and can blink them. Also you have a lot of colorless mana in the scions, which makes you less susceptible against Blood Moon. Drowner and Displacer are great in the mirror.
Green can handle most permanents and has thus is probably better against Miracles. World Breaker and Displacer are again great in the mirror.
Neither World Breaker, nor Drowner will greatly change the Lands matchup, as when you get to that much mana you are usually well off (World Breaker handles Maze of Ith and Skyspawner can block Marit Lage FWIW).
Why not go both? I posted a decklist on p24 that is WUG. After doing some playtesting, i found it was pretty strong. I never really had any mana problems as i have 12+ t1 sources (+ talismans) for each color. Skyspawner is a lot stronger than i thought he would be. The tokens also turned out way more useful than i thought they would be. They really helped ramp up to casting drowner or world breaker 1-2 turns earlier. Especially if you have displacer out and you flicker skyspawner eot with spare mana to get more of them. One move i really like: block with skyspawner and a token. sac the token to help pay for displacer flicker and flicker skyspawner. skyspawner and the token come back and you blocked 2 creatures. Now that i've played with skyspawner i dont want to remove the blue splash.Quote:
Originally Posted by hofzge
@barook: you asked me if i thought ditching factories was worth the blue splash: i think it is. I think the utility you get from skyspawner alone (being able to block flyers, creating more chump blockers, ramp for larger guys) is worth ditching factories.
Well it looks like ya'll took too long to tune the deck for null rods, spiked up to $60.
Two variants I'm considering:
[1] Serum Powder list based on Eldrazi Shops
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 City of Traitors
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Wasteland
4 Serum Powder
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
2 World Breaker
3 Warping Wail
3 Dismember
And here's an attempt to play a Processor build in legacy, though it looks too fair imo:
[2] Processor Build:
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 City of Traitors
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Llanowar Wastes
4 Serum Powder
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Blight Herder
2 World Breaker
3 Warping Wail
3 Dismember
Ulamog's Despoiler could fill up the 6 slot for a turn 3 9/9
EDIT: Leylines are immune to Abrupt Decay and it is hard to get explosives to 4 for lands. This shuts off loam and punishing fires and makes gamble much more of a risky play. You can still get 20/20'd easily though. The additional splash damage against reanimator, dredge, goyfs, tasigur, nimble mongoose, gurmag anglers and snapcasters is a nice extra especially given leyline is uncounterable, an important detail against tempo decks. Against burn you can side in Leyline of Sanctity. Helm of Obedience is an option too, but I don't like it too much.
Give Mind Stone a try. I tested in a store tournament and liked it. It works like Talismans in Wx versions but you can cycle it in late game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronicler
Interesting idea. I think that if you are going to play 4 LotV main deck, you really should play at least 1 or 2 Helms.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar