Ruby Storm

I took Ruby storm to locals tonight and went 3-2. However, I do think the deck is stronger than that. My two losses were to lands ( glacial chasm) and rip helm combo (welcome to this decks personal hell). Other that that it felt strong. Beats counterspell, drs, and discard, I was afraid of the BUG match up.

For LED, I'm not sold on it but I do recognize how strong of a card it is. And needs to be tested more. The nice part of desperate ritual is you can flash it back off of past in flames. Without Ruby it is unimpressive +2 mana +2 storm, with Ruby it is +4 +2 where led works itself in the middle as +3 +1. There can be other swaps like hazorets undying fury but not sure.

To that point, HUF keeps being underwhelming. You could be in a losing spot and then oops I win with flipping the right four but .... I'm cutting it to 1 because it's still really cool and don't want to give in to the spikey nature of mine just yet.

Blood moon is good but I think I'm going to try volcanic awakening. I would have easily beaten lands had this been in my wish board.

Last but not least, I think this deck needs a better name. Something as exciting as playing the deck feels. Also, it's a storm deck so 3 letter acronyms seems to be the standard.

Tendrils of Agony also beats glacial chasm. That's one of the arguments for playing it.

I'm not sure what ramparts reasoning was when he cut it from the list. He happened to go 5-0 without it and I'm pretty sure he even jumped on board with it since then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kobra_D

I took Ruby storm to locals tonight and went 3-2. However, I do think the deck is stronger than that. My two losses were to lands ( glacial chasm) and rip helm combo (welcome to this decks personal hell). Other that that it felt strong. Beats counterspell, drs, and discard, I was afraid of the BUG match up.

For LED, I'm not sold on it but I do recognize how strong of a card it is. And needs to be tested more. The nice part of desperate ritual is you can flash it back off of past in flames. Without Ruby it is unimpressive +2 mana +2 storm, with Ruby it is +4 +2 where led works itself in the middle as +3 +1. There can be other swaps like hazorets undying fury but not sure.

To that point, HUF keeps being underwhelming. You could be in a losing spot and then oops I win with flipping the right four but .... I'm cutting it to 1 because it's still really cool and don't want to give in to the spikey nature of mine just yet.

Blood moon is good but I think I'm going to try volcanic awakening. I would have easily beaten lands had this been in my wish board.

Last but not least, I think this deck needs a better name. Something as exciting as playing the deck feels. Also, it's a storm deck so 3 letter acronyms seems to be the standard.

---

I just don't see the merit in playing any Storm-based combo deck using Past in Flames and Burning Wish without the card that has the strongest, most broken power and synergy in Lion's Eye Diamond. It really goes without saying.

Blood Moon post-board wrecks BUG and Lands if resolved, and will at minimum buy you an eternity. It controls the game for three mana (possibly two or one, in this deck) and locks it down tight in your favor. For the mana investment and cards you'd need to play Volcanic Awakening, you're honestly better off just playing Blood Moon. It's much more powerful against a wider variety of decks for hardly no investment.

I hate saying this but if you're not giving in to the "spikey" nature you referenced, you're going to find that your card selections and performance will be influenced over time by not playing what's truly optimal. I'm not saying don't experiment, but consider the cards that are the absolute best at what they do by themselves and synergystically and play them.

HUF is greatest in mid-chain when you don't yet have enough storm for a lethal Tendrils/Grapeshot. It doesn't give fresh cards to our opponent like Reforge the Soul, so HUF is better vs counterspells and other interaction (e.g. post board Surgical). But HUF can also whiff with a bunch of lands, which is the point when you probably tilt and swear to never play HUF again. Until you run into a few occasions where you can cast some AoI or RtS but don't have the mana or card draw or Wish to get there and you start to miss HUF because casting stuff for free in storm is great. It's a love-hate relationship with un unreliable companion who sometimes delivers the moon to you on a silver platter when you were supposed to lose the game, but other times leaves you with a bunch of exiled mountain dust. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Michael Keller

I hate saying this but if you're not giving in to the "spikey" nature you referenced, you're going to find that your card selections and performance will be influenced over time by not playing what's truly optimal. I'm not saying don't experiment, but consider the cards that are the absolute best at what they do by themselves and synergystically and play them.

---

I get what you mean, I want to push this deck as far as possible, know the best list, and then anyone can always play a worse card for the fun of it. My opinion on the matter is that for this thread is that of, how do I make the best mono red storm deck and not what deck plays a card like hazoret's undying fury the best. Although, come on slamming HUF, shuffling, and hoping not to hit 4 mountains is exhilarating.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Michael Keller

Blood Moon post-board wrecks BUG and Lands if resolved, and will at minimum buy you an eternity. It controls the game for three mana (possibly two or one, in this deck) and locks it down tight in your favor. For the mana investment and cards you'd need to play Volcanic Awakening, you're honestly better off just playing Blood Moon. It's much more powerful against a wider variety of decks for hardly no investment.

---

I'm not contesting the strength of blood moon, it's ability to provide a "free win" is bar none. I brought up the stone rain with storm because it has a couple of edges, it is wishable, providing a 5 of as opposed to a 2,3, or 4 of that blood moon would be. It is also available game 1. Counting 40 storm or making 30 mana is surprisingly reasonable with the deck, so paying 6 to armageddon the opp. is decent in buying time all on its own but, and again just using the lands example, I lost game 1 because they had crop rot. into glacial chasm up the entire time. This is an out in all 3 games. Plus except for the truly greedy mana bases, skilled players will play around blood moon/ can play around blood moon.

And so from just this example, blood moon is simply not the best card in all cases. It might be the better card, but I want to try and consider all things first. If it comes down to, I will just lose g1 to glacial chasm for a better post board plan so be it but that is something to be wary of.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Michael Keller

I just don't see the merit in playing any Storm-based combo deck using Past in Flames and Burning Wish without the card that has the strongest, most broken power and synergy in Lion's Eye Diamond. It really goes without saying.

---

I've never played ANT, or TES, or even LED, so I am just unsure. Although, it does work well with past in flames, it works with burning wish only moderately, it doesn't work incredibly with reforge the soul. I guess you can call it a plus with act on impulse. Part of the big plus side to LED, I always thought, was infernal tutor, which doesn't matter here. So, I'll try it but I'm still not sold on it's power with just red cards.

My current iteration for reference:

//Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
11 Mountain

//Inst./Sorc.
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
1 Desperate Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Rite of Flame
4 Seething Song
1 Gamble
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
3 Past in Flames
3 Reforge the Soul
1 Cathartic Reunion
1 Grapeshot

//Artifacts
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion

//Creatures
2 Spirit Guide

Stop worrying about glacial chasm and have a sb tendrils.

tendrils of agony
Life loss, not damage.

To reference your list, as it's pretty close to what I like to play, just goldfish some hands and ask yourself if LED is better than ssg in those games. They more or less play a similar function.

this is what i've been goldfishing with for a few days now (no time to play meaningful games)

// 60 Maindeck
// 13 Artifact
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lotus Petal
1 Helm of Awakening

// 11 Instant
4 Manamorphose
4 Seething Song
2 Desperate Ritual
1 Commune with Lava

// 15 Land
13 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 City of Traitors

// 21 Sorcery
2 Gamble
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Past in Flames
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
4 Rite of Flame


// 6 Sideboard
// 6 Sorcery
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Grapeshot
SB: 1 Cave-In

Is Grapeshot really needed as a wish-target, especially in led-builds? I've cut it and never wanted it again

Anyway, i've tried Apocalypse and it has been great against D&T and Eldrazi. My wishboard now is

// 6 Sorcery
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Cave-In
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Apocalypse

I've never wished for Empty too, as said, i've always closed the game with Tendrils but obv a second target is good (to side-in if we fear Surgical, at least). I've tried Fiery Confluence but it's very heavy and can't get around Mom+Thalia/Canonist.

I only tried apocalypse when I wasn't using led, which is significantly worse!

Would be nice to see how many times it really helps.

I like having grapeshot bc it functions as a win condition you can side in if need be. (surgical on burning wish and don't want to depend on goblins.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mistercakes

I only tried apocalypse when I wasn't using led, which is significantly worse!

Would be nice to see how many times it really helps.

I like having grapeshot bc it functions as a win condition you can side in if need be. (surgical on burning wish and don't want to depend on goblins.)

---

I want to test Jokulhaups too, probably it's better since you don't have to discard your hand, but cost 1 more and doesn't deal with Rip/Leyline

Wildfire you keep your medallions. Dunno if that matters. Doesn't kill angler and prob goyf or tnn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Michael Keller

I hate saying this but if you're not giving in to the "spikey" nature you referenced, you're going to find that your card selections and performance will be influenced over time by not playing what's truly optimal. I'm not saying don't experiment, but consider the cards that are the absolute best at what they do by themselves and synergystically and play them.

---

This here ^^^ sums things up very nicely. Thanks MK.

I bought a couple Jokulhaups to test out, because they were only $1 each. I might test one in the sideboard, but I'm already having a hard time squeezing in singletons once wishboard + dedicated hate are in there.

1x Tendrils of Agony (wish)
1x Empty the Warrens (wish)
1x Past in Flames (wish)
1x Grapeshot (wish)
1x By Force (wish)
1x Cave-In (wish)
1x Reforge the Soul (wish)

2x Blood Moon (hate)
2x Pyroblast (hate)
1x Tormod's Crypt (hate)
2x Scab-Clan Berserker (hate)
1x Open (Jokulhaups/Apocalypse?)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mistercakes

Wildfire you keep your medallions. Dunno if that matters. Doesn't kill angler and prob goyf or tnn.

---

Wildfire and Jokulhaups have the same converted mana cost, and do less (although with functionally different tasks) than Apocalypse. If you're trying to reset the board, it's your best bet. Discarding your hand is never good, but if you're losing the game and absolutely need to reset the board, it's your best bet. Consider a Jace on >10 counters. Or Vials ticked at 2 and 3 and a board that's flooded. Or a situation where Lands has flushed their hand and prepped for Marit Lage. But like I said, you want LED if you're running Apocalypse, because if you discard your hand and can accelerate beforehand using it or drawing into it and playing it for PIF, it becomes much, much better.

Yea if you treat it like that (going to lose the game anyway so fuck it go apocalypse).... I think that is actually the best reason to play it. I never wanted to find room for a slot which is probably why I never tried it after the first time. Good catch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karhumies

Just read through pages 15-24. Found a remark which had not really been tackled thus far in the thread. Apologies for the semi-necro.



You don't need a level 5 judge for this. It's fairly self-explanatory, actually.

Reminder Text: Split second (As long as this spell is on the stack, players can't cast spells or activate abilities that aren't mana abilities.)
https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Split_second

Neither player gets to do much during their priorities until the split second spell has left the stack. Mana abilities can be activated, but that's pretty much it. Having the split second spell resolve last on the stack does not change how the mechanic fundamentally works.

If you want to make the scenario slightly more complex, imagine hitting a Reforge the Soul vs Dredge together with a Split Second spell lower in the stack. But even that should be fairly easy to resolve correctly since the Split Second wording prevents both players from doing pretty much anything complex in the first place.

---

This is amazing. I'm tempted to run Sudden Shock maindeck now in a high HUF version, just to troll my opponent with their FoW and Flusterstorm.

Edit: Upon further thought, this might be more of a conundrum than previously explained.
You have to choose to cast the cards during the resolution of HUF, just like when casting Epic Experiment, correct?
If so, you have to cast them one at a time, but they go onto the stack in reverse order, last card cast resolving first, first card cast resolving last.
This means that if you choose to cast the Split Second card first and put it onto the stack, you no longer have the ability to choose a second or third spell hecause the split second is already in effect, no?

Edit2: Seems I was correct. You screw yourself if you try to use a Split Second spell first, locking yourself out of playing additional ones.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/m...esolution-of-a

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kobra_D

I've never played ANT, or TES, or even LED, so I am just unsure. Although, it does work well with past in flames, it works with burning wish only moderately, it doesn't work incredibly with reforge the soul. I guess you can call it a plus with act on impulse. Part of the big plus side to LED, I always thought, was infernal tutor, which doesn't matter here. So, I'll try it but I'm still not sold on it's power with just red cards.

---

LED is just stupid good in this deck. It's awesome with AoI, PiF, Wish, Reforge and even Gamble (for PiF). It's so much better than SSG and arguably better than both Helm and Desperate Ritual. LED actually works just as good with Burning Wish as it does with Infernal Tutor, not to mention Wish is just better than IT on it's own. Also, LED is actually amazing with Reforge. Cast Reforge and in response crack your LED giving you 3 mana to use on whatever cards you just drew. Although the deck works without it, I feel once the correct build is hammered out through testing it will be auto included.

EDIT: Plus you will get Tendrils considerably more often.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AceOfJacks

This is amazing. I'm tempted to run Sudden Shock maindeck now in a high HUF version, just to troll my opponent with their FoW and Flusterstorm.

Edit: Upon further thought, this might be more of a conundrum than previously explained.
You have to choose to cast the cards during the resolution of HUF, just like when casting Epic Experiment, correct?
If so, you have to cast them one at a time, but they go onto the stack in reverse order, last card cast resolving first, first card cast resolving last.
This means that if you choose to cast the Split Second card first and put it onto the stack, you no longer have the ability to choose a second or third spell hecause the split second is already in effect, no?

Edit2: Seems I was correct. You screw yourself if you try to use a Split Second spell first, locking yourself out of playing additional ones.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/m...esolution-of-a

---

True but I think on modo it's not programmed correctly and you just get the spells all for free. (at least that's what happened for me. I can confirm again today.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laser Brains

LED is just stupid good in this deck. It's awesome with AoI, PiF, Wish, Reforge and even Gamble (for PiF). It's so much better than SSG and arguably better than both Helm and Desperate Ritual. LED actually works just as good with Burning Wish as it does with Infernal Tutor, not to mention Wish is just better than IT on it's own. Also, LED is actually amazing with Reforge. Cast Reforge and in response crack your LED giving you 3 mana to use on whatever cards you just drew. Although the deck works without it, I feel once the correct build is hammered out through testing it will be auto included.

EDIT: Plus you will get Tendrils considerably more often.

---

Truth be told you're probably right. LED over performs for every other storm deck, there is no reason not to expect the same here.

And it's easy enough to come up with examples where I want ssg instead but that is likely the exception and not the rule.

I'm not sure about the helm comment though. I always want to t1 a ruby, so ruby 5-x seems reasonable.

As a tangent, my cockatrice name is Mark_D1. I'm not always on but if I am it will be late night EST. If any one wants too test with or against a build I'm in. Gold fishing is great but nothing replaces actual competition.

I have noticed some people only running a random Tormod's Crypt or Faerie Macabre in their sb. Unfortunately for me, there are a lot of Reanimator decks in my local meta, so I have no choice but to run 4x Leyline of the Void to stop them from Reanimating a T1 Griselbrand or T1 Sire of Insanity. I tried Faerie Macabre in the past, but it folds to T1 Thoughtseize or t! Unmask before they play their discard outlet. This really cramps my sb space, and I am wondering if anyone has any ideas how I can squeeze Blood Moon into the sb.

Current SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Defense Grid
2 Ensnaring Bridge (several regulars piloting Sneak & Show variants. One even plays Omniscience, so he SnT -> Omni -> hardcast Emrakul.)
6 Wishboard
1 Empty
1 Grapeshot (good for Thalia or DRS)
1 Tendrils
1 PiF
1 Cave-In
1 Fiery Confluence (open slot I guess, but I wanted variable artifact destruction and/or the ability to kill dudes if needed)

The grids are the blood moon spots. I don't think you can run both. Too bad about reanimator. I really like Tormod's Crypt. If you lose a lot of die rolls it can be rough, as the Crypt isn't as strong on the draw.

I do at least have a positive record vs that deck.