[DTB] U/G/x Thresh - a.k.a. Not Quite Gro, SuperGro

I ended up being 4-2 at Kadilak's Dual Land Draft. I missed top 8 due to not being able to draw in round 6, being 4-1. There was 10 people underneath myself and Phil Stolze, with 10 points when we had 12. I was the only red Gro/Threshold player there. This is the list that I ran.

Threshold/Not Quite Gro red
By: Bryant Cook

4 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Wooded Foothill
3 Flooded Strand

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Werebear
2 Fledging Dragon

4 Serum Visions
4 Brainstorm
4 Predict
4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
3 Daze
4 Magma Jet
4 Fire/Ice
4 Lightning Bolt

Sideboard
3 Pithing Needle
3 Flametongue Kavu
4 Pyroclasm
2 Phrexian Furnace
1 Tormod's crypt
2 Naturalize

Round 1 Jason Sims (Corrupted Angel) (Vial Goblins)
Game1: He mulled and played lackey I played goose and traded. I played alot of burn and Mongeese.
Game2: Clasm was huge along with me FTKing.
1-0
Round 2 Kevin Garvey (Garvman) (Garv.deck)
Game 1: I dazed his first 2 men he played a turn 4 troll with 2 rancors. Whatever gay stuff happens.
Game 2: I had 9 land in play, I fetched 3 times, and scryed 3 to the bottom.
Whatever gay stuff happens.
1-1
Round 3 Chris ..... Team LVL 4 wizards (U/r Flamevault/stasis)
Game 1: My first 3 turns involved 2 mongeese a visions and predict. Turns out his deck didn't play counters besides 4 force so I went nuts.
Game 2: He got a stasis down and I eventually won with werebears. Pithign needle on Timevault was key.
2-1
Round 4 John ..... Team LVL 4 Wizards (vialgoblins)
Game 1 : I drew alot, and I mean alot of burn like 10. Followed up bya fledgling dragon. He drew 3 wastelands that game.... That hit my trops.
Game 2: He should of won but he feared 2 mongeese out with his pyrostatic pillar. He Had 2 matrons, a warchief, kiki-jiki, and a siege-gang with friends out against me and didn't swing. When I was at 9, all I Had out was a forest and 2 geese. So I pull the card I draw way into the ait and scream red source without looking and open up my eyes and its a foothills. I fetch for a basic mountain and clasm his team away. This game he drew all 4 wastelands...
3-1
Round 5 John Lacasse (Mulletus) (RGSA)
Game 1: My opening hand was rediculous it was island, fetch, visions, predict, daze, counterspell, force of will. I felt alot better since I sat down going oh, great I'm going to lose. He played 2 survivals and 2 witnesses andnever got a survival into play. I ended up going fledgling dragon beats.
Game 2: I mulled to 6 kept a double cantrip, needle, Island, Fire/ice hand.
I needled survival, he never drew any until lategame. I ended up getting threshold really late from being mana screwed played a dragin and started racing. I was losing the race. on my last turn possible to do anything, I thought I was out when I riped a clasm, that proceeded to kill a FTK, Troll, and witness. He had just cast baloth. I swung for 9 when he was at 4 so the Baloth was no good.
4-1
Round 6 Phil Stolze (3c Angel Stompy)
Game 1: I played 2 mongeese and raced his lone meddling mage.
Game 2: I kept a 5 land,mongoose, B-storm hand. He duressed me.... GG to me. I ended up getting mana flooded with 8 lands in play I got him down to 4. When he maged naming magma jet after I told him I SB'd out burn since it sucks against Pro-red men. He equiped jitte. I played a needle naming jitte. He then ripped sword of fire/ice off the top for the GG.
Game 3: I get mana flooded again.... And he bashes my face with 2 Exalted Angels.
4-2
Meh, I coulda drew in if it wasn't for all the rifter decks going to time.
Props to all the Gro players for doing well, for the 7 of us 5 of us were in the winner's bracket most of the time.

ok well reading your lists they all sound good, but i run a little diffrent build.

4 Werebears
4 mystic enforcers
4 medleing mages

4 force of will
4 counterspell

4 brainstorm
3 serums vission
4 predict
2 fact or fiction

4 STP
2 echoing truth

2 cunning wish

4 Tundra
4 Trops
4 flooded strand
4 poluted deltas
2 Island
1 plain

Side board

1 stifle
4 blasts
1 gaea's blessing
1 naturalize
1 b zerk
3 tividars crusade
2 Tormods crypt
2 pithing neeldes

Although yours all looked alot more fun to play, i found My build to be to be stable and versitile.

The diffrences:

Echoing truth
I chose echoing truth instead of daze because i found it helps ALOT against most threats and can let me return to hand a threat then cast medleing mage once its in thier hand. It also removes multiples of same cards and is an INSTANT wich means EOT :)

Fact or Fiction
It may be alot to cast for a draw but with i fopund it never to be a dead card since it can be cast 3rd turn and add to your threshhold AND can be tossed to FOW.

8 Fetchland
It does add to the land count and takes 2 spots for answers BUT it adds to the thresh count AND thins land from the deck so you can better your chance to draw an answer or cantrip

Cunning Wish
Well with so many problems that can crop up in a match, the added value of being able to wish for a answer or quicken the clock by wishing for bezerk makes it well worth it. It can also be tossed to FOW and the fact that it still goes with the EOT theme leaving your mana free for your turn to drop threats or reserve for disruption.

I also decided to only use 3 serums vissions because i found as good as they are with predict and the scry factor its still a sourcery and the only things i want to play on my turn is land and creatures

I say try it and see what you think before you say "EH its ok i guess", I know it doesnt look as fun BUT its stable and IS resorcefull!! I play it in tournies every friday and i always place in the semifinals or finals and so do the people who borrow my deck and play.

Hope you enjoy

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Originally Posted by Mr. Nightmare

I would still run -1 Island, +1 Plains, but I think I could be swayed from that argument. i just feel its important to be able to cast Enforcer from Basics alone.

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My problem with adding another non-blue basic is that it will necessarily make you mulligan more often. Gro can pretty freely keep 1-land hands, especially with the full 12 1cc cantrips, but that one land has to be blue.

Why do you find it important to be able to cast Enforcer with basics? 2WG is at the very top of this deck's curve; you can wait to fetch the Tundra until the turn you cast Enforcer, and then the Tundra will be largely unnecessary. Fetch up another one if you need to cast STP. Your opponent is probably relying on topdecks to find another of their 4 Wastelands, while you have a 16-card draw engine to ensure you have access to one of your 10 white sources.

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I still Like Mentl Note, but there are pros and cons to it, just like Portent. In a meta filled with the Mirror, I think I would cut Note, simply because you ned card selection, not speed. In a Goblin meta or a Solidarity one, I think Note is better than Predict.

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Gaining card advantage is actually very important against Goblins, and it also helps against Solidarity. In neither matchup would I want to sacrifice the draw engine for the small possibility of getting threshold sooner.

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Monestary is nuts. I'm ashamed I never thought of it. How difficult has it been for you to keep GW up to activate it?

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In the matchups that Monastery is best in, your manabase is never under any pressure (barring Boil from Rifter), so Monastery will generally come down as the 4th or 5th land. At that point, it will dominate the board, so the mana investment is worth it.

There are a few decks that play Wasteland that Monastery can see play against, the main example being Landstill. In cases like this, it is usually worth it to stop Wasteland with the Needles, both to protect your manabase and the Monasteries themselves.

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I also have MD Engineered Explosives (I've been testing them) but those could easily come out as well. The Explosives used to be cantrips, and I can see them becoming them again. I agree that they're better in the board.

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Originally Posted by Alfred

Also, have you thought about running Engineered Explosives in the sideboard or the maindeck? I have found that to be one of the best removal spells that a UWG threshold deck can take advantage of, being great against a lot of different decks and threats.

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I don't like Engineered Explosives because they are extremely mana-intensive. In this format, an Explosives will often only hit one threat, and spot removal spells that cost more than two mana are terribly inefficient.

The other big issue I have with Explosives is that they will often threaten your own permanents.

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Originally Posted by dazed and confused

ok well reading your lists they all sound good, but i run a little diffrent build.

4 Werebears
4 mystic enforcers
4 medleing mages

4 force of will
4 counterspell

4 brainstorm
3 serums vission
4 predict
2 fact or fiction

4 STP
2 echoing truth

2 cunning wish

4 Tundra
4 Trops
4 flooded strand
4 poluted deltas
2 Island
1 plain

Side board

1 stifle
4 blasts
1 gaea's blessing
1 naturalize
1 b zerk
3 tividars crusade
2 Tormods crypt
2 pithing neeldes

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Your creature base is extremely questionable. Going up to four Mystic Enforcers while not running Nimble Mongoose at all slows the deck down an awful lot. Also, I don't think you can justify maindecking Meddling Mage unless your metagame is overwhelmed with combo decks.

Of course, the other changes you've made also slow the deck down. You've stretched the curve by adding Fact or Fiction and Cunning Wish, both very slow cards. This has even forced you to up the land count.

Echoing Truth does not belong. Bounce spells almost always create card disadvantage; they can provide a decent tempo advantage, but even so are not included in other Gro lists. I don't see how bounce could be better in a slower deck, like yours.

Can you give us some specific reasons that you think your deck is better than the more traditional lists? I spent a good amount of time spelling out why I think my build is close to optimal, and I'd like to know why you think otherwise. For example, I suspect that decks with Nimble Mongoose and more cantrips will do much better against Goblins than your list. Am I wrong?

Well, I recently attended Cadilack’s Dual Land Draft coming in at a respectable 3rd place with UGB Grow, and let me tell you ladies and gentlemen, black is back and in a big way.

Round 1: John with Vial Goblins
Game 1:
He wins the die roll and decides to play. He mulliganes to six and starts off with a first turn Rishadon Port into an Aether Vial. I look at my hand and see nothing that can deal with the Vial so I think I’m in for an uphill battle. So I take my turn and rip a Pithing Needle off the top so I drop it naming Vial and say, “go.” Then over the course of the next 5 turns, he plays nothing. So, da bears hastily lay him down to rest.
1-0
Game 2:
This game is a little faster. He’s on the play and drops a first turn Goblin Lackey, which resolves. I play a Polluted Delta and then pass the turn. He swings with Goblin Lackey that quickly is hit with a Ghastly Demise. So, he goes to his second main phase and then drops a Pyrostatic Pillar, and I’m thinking to myself, “shit, I’m going to lose to that,” which I did, so on to game three, and in come the Naturalizes.
1-1
Game 3
He fucks up and makes the same mistake as the first game, so its good times to be had by all.
2-1
Overall, Record 1-0

Round 2: Justin with Solidarity
Game 1:
I’m writing all of this off of memory and with the aid of my life total sheet for the day and this game is kina fuzzy but all I remember is dropping a turn two Dark Confidant and riding it to the win.
1-0
Game 2:
This game I open up a decent hand with something like Force of Will, Force of Will, Counterspell, land, and some draw. Something, like half way through the game, he attempts to go off when I’m tapped out. However, he runs into like three Force of Wills and is shut down. But later on, he’s able to rebuild since I drew like no creatures the entire game, so he just overruns me with must the I just can’t deal with all them.
1-1
Game 3:
I get unbelievably mana flooded and I just get steam rolled.
1-2
Overall, Record 1-1

Round 3: Ian (Carven Ninja) with Welder Survival
Game 1:
This game I just steam roll him. He resolves like two spells the entire game. I think they were something like a Birds of Paradise and an Elvish Lyrist. Nevertheless, steam rolled.
1-0
Game 2:
I just counter the important stuff so he has to just go with the bad beats plan, but that didn’t work out so well. At one point, he had to hard cast Squee to block the onslaught of critters.
2-0
Overall, Record 2-1

Round 4: Garv (Garvman) with Garv.Dec
Game 1:
All I remember from this game is that he was stuck on two mana and had to start swinging with a rancored Birds of Paradise. So, my team quickly went to town on him.
1-0
Game 2:
This game I just countered some Wild Mongrels and just smashed his face in.
2-0
Overall, Record 3-1

Round 5: Nick with three-color Angel Stompy
Game 1:
In this game, I dazed a faced down angel, force of willed a Dark Confidant, and raced two Soltari Priests. But the card advantage generated by my own Dark Confidant is what really won me the game.
1-0
Game 2:
This game I hit threshold on something like turn three and then just dropped creatures like there was no tomorrow and he just couldn’t keep up.
2-0
Overall, record 4-1

Round 6: Brian D. (Ewokslayer) with Solidarity
This whole round is somewhat fuzzy but what I remember is that we had to play it out since I was paired down. But in the end, I won 2-1, which guaranteed me a top eight spot.
Overall, record 5-1

Top 8: Allen (Urabahn) with Rifter
Game 1:
He just grinds me out, draws it out into the late game, and then he drops a humility at which point I scoop to save time.
0-1
Game 2:
I drop a few bears in the early game and I’m able to protect them until he’s at zero.
1-1
Game 3:
I get kind of mana flooded, but I’m able to pull through to the late game. We reach time and I then proceed to drop a couple Werebears in one turn and squeeze out a piping hot W.
2-1
Overall, record 6-1

Top 4: Mike (Herbig) with Solidarity
Game 1:
I keep a hand that I shouldn’t have and I paid severely for it, as he just went off on me like a loaded gun.
0-1
Game 2:
This game I just rode a turn two Dark Confidant to the win.
1-1
Game 3:
I just make a bunch of mistakes in this game. Just dumb shit too, like I grab the wrong land with a delta, I forgot what was on top of my library when I predicted myself, and I forgot to play creatures when I should have. But yea in the end, I pay for all my misplays and lose horribly.
1-2
Overall, record 6-2

Overall, I was delighted with the performance of the deck, and have come across no major issues with the current list. Which goes as followed.
UGB Threshold/Grow by Scott Scheurer
Disruption:
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Counterspells
3 Pithing Needle
4 Ghastly Demise
Critters:
4 Werebears
3 Dark Confidant
4 Nimble Mongoose
Draw/manipulation:
4 Portent
4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Vision
4 Predict
Mana Base:
1 Swamp
3 Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand

Deck list analysis

Daze: I have found three Dazes to be the right number. You really don’t want to see them in multiples or draw them in the mid to late gameotherwise there a dead card.
Counterspell:In recent testing, I have finding myself longing for the third Counterspell. The deck just feels like it’s too light on hard counters.
Pithing Needle: My main quarrel with Pithing Needle is that it’s dead against Solidarity and the mirror match up. Nevertheless, in these match ups you have plenty of time to scry put back or shuffle them away to avoid drawing them. Yet these reasons alone due not necessitate its exclusion from the main deck. On the up side, it improves almost every other match up ranging from aggro to control and all the little in betweens.
Ghastly Demise: This spot is exceedingly meta game depended. It can very from Diabolic Edict (if you’re expecting to see a lot of the mirror) to Echoing Decay (if you expect to see alot of Goblins). But the chief motivation for its inclusion into the main is that it’s the most mana efficient creature removal spell available that’s the least restrictive.
Dark Confidant: In my testing, I have Dark Confidant to be the clinching reason to play black. The fact that you have a beater that draws cards is simply amazing. Also on a side note, the whole revealing a force with him and Lava Axing yourself yea the shit doesn’t happen…..ever, the fact that you have twelve stacking effects minimalizes the life loss from a Shock to a Lava Dart each turn at most.
Portent: My initial reasoning for playing Portent was the fact that it was an efficient stacking effect to increase the potency of Predict and Dark Confidant. But in time, it grew on me and I came to fully appreciate the ability to go through five cards of my library to find that answer.
Predict: This card has consistently preformed well, and the fact that it’s an instant, easier on the mana base, and is able to pitch its self to Force of Will I think gives it the edge over Night’s Whisper.

Cards not included
Mental Note: Ohh dear Jesus where to begin. First off, it doesn’t allow for any library manipulation. Secondly, it’s fucking terrible in the mirror; the key here is to seek card quality. Thirdly getting a few extra points of damage in the early to mid game just isn’t worth the space it takes up. Fourthly, I don’t know if just me but I just don’t like milling answers to a problem no matter how small of a chance it is it’s still not worth the risk.
Night’s Whisper: I just don’t feel like restating myself, read Predict.
Putrefy/ all other 3cc removal: They cost three nuff said.
Dark Blast: It’s just dead in to many match ups out side of Deadguy Ale and Goblins sometimes.
Pernicious Deed: It’s to damn mana intensive in a deck that only runs 17 mana sources.

Reasons to play black over red and white
Removal: Here your options run far deeper then white and probably even red. You also have the option of running an assortment of sweeper effects such as Massacre, Infest, and even Hideous Laughter.
Draw: Black has without a doubt the best draw engine available to grow via Dark Confidant and Night’s Whisper.
Sideboard: Here you have an array of options varying from hand disruption against combo and control such as Duress, Cabal Therapy, to even Hymn to Tourach, to more spot removal/sweepers against the mirror and aggro.

All in all I feel that black has a lot to offer grow in general. But much of it is yet to be explored which I eagerly look forward to your suggestions.

Congratulations on your finish, I like your list a lot. I'm thinking black might be the way to go, especially with the rise of combo. I was wondering what your sideboard was for the tournament, and what you would make it after the fact. Duress seems great in the board against Solidarity, making your matchup even better.

Black definitely has much tastiness for thresh. Actual card advantage, for example. On the other hand, the lack of a big finisher is worrisome, though I note the nonsynergy of a big finisher with Dark Confidant. Clearly, no finisher wasn't enough to stop you for doing well. Also, why only 3x DC? I don't think there's a compelling reason not to run all 4. He's easy too kill, and has a big huge target on his head. It's true that they can get dangerous in with several on the board, but with such a low curve, it seems like you'd simply overwhelm the opponent with card advantage before bob ever killed you. Besides, there's no rule that says you have to play all the ones that you draw.

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Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man

Congratulations on your finish, I like your list a lot. I'm thinking black might be the way to go, especially with the rise of combo. I was wondering what your sideboard was for the tournament, and what you would make it after the fact. Duress seems great in the board against Solidarity, making your matchup even better.

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Well, the board for Saturday was as followed
3 Duress
4 Engineered Plague
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Naturalize
2 Tormod's Crypt
In retrospect I wouldn't have changed a thing. During the course of the day I boarded everyhing in at least once.

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Originally Posted by Blindmage

Black definitely has much tastiness for thresh. Actual card advantage, for example. On the other hand, the lack of a big finisher is worrisome, though I note the nonsynergy of a big finisher with Dark Confidant. Clearly, no finisher wasn't enough to stop you for doing well. Also, why only 3x DC? I don't think there's a compelling reason not to run all 4. He's easy too kill, and has a big huge target on his head. It's true that they can get dangerous in with several on the board, but with such a low curve, it seems like you'd simply overwhelm the opponent with card advantage before bob ever killed you. Besides, there's no rule that says you have to play all the ones that you draw.

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Well, the most compelling reason not to run 4 is the fact that anymore of them past the first one you really don't wanna draw. Also the fact that he's so fragile means in alot of cases you dont want to invest the mana in him.

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Originally Posted by overlord95

Reasons to play black over red and white
Removal: Here your options run far deeper then white and probably even red. You also have the option of running an assortment of sweeper effects such as Massacre, Infest, and even Hideous Laughter.
Draw: Black has without a doubt the best draw engine available to grow via Dark Confidant and Night’s Whisper.
Sideboard: Here you have an array of options varying from hand disruption against combo and control such as Duress, Cabal Therapy, to even Hymn to Tourach, to more spot removal/sweepers against the mirror and aggro.

All in all I feel that black has a lot to offer grow in general. But much of it is yet to be explored which I eagerly look forward to your suggestions.

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I like how the black splash has Duress for control decks like Rifter. If you get a Humility or removal spell out of their hand, that's one less card Gro has to counter or Naturalize.

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Originally Posted by URABAHN

I like how the black splash has Duress for control decks like Rifter. If you get a Humility or removal spell out of their hand, that's one less card Gro has to counter or Naturalize.

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On top of that, you also have the option of running echoes in the board if you're in a particularly control heavy meta. It basically makes the postboard matchup a bye when used in combonation with duress.

I like how a ton of peopl on this thread bitched the black splash out of here and discarded it.

Its had its own love and time to grow in the black thresh thread, now it looks promising huh?

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Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living

I like how a ton of peopl on this thread bitched the black splash out of here and discarded it.

Its had its own love and time to grow in the black thresh thread, now it looks promising huh?

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They just needed some proof. But some of us already knew it was good. Black has so many options, more then both White and Red that it's silly. But what I think really pushed the Black splash over the edge was Dark Confidant.

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Originally Posted by Brushwagg

But what I think really pushed the Black splash over the edge was Dark Confidant.

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Early on as the black splash was first being discussed, Dark Confidant was still knew, and people were afraid of him. Now that people know how powerful he is, they're beginning to see the light. What's going to happen to the black thread now? I assume peolpe will start talking about it here, so what are we going to do? :smile:

In addition, the black spalsh has some structural differances from the other two, most notably the lack of a big finisher, and the presence of real card advantage. This seperates it somewhat from the other two, and changes the play strategy in a way that is subtle but profound. The way I see it, the black splash essentially trades confidant for enforcer or dragon, which has the overall effect of weakening one's ability to come from behind, but increasing one's ability to get very far ahead early on (thus reducing the need to come from behind). Of course, I could be full of baloney on this.

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My Mages are still in the board because they are terrible in a lot of matchups. They are also still in the board because Mage is an amazing tool to have access to.

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Also, about the Meddling Mage being in the SB, I agree completely. It's best matchup is against Combo, and to some extent, Control decks. However, Control decks will usually have multiple types of removal to kill it. Also, it isn't half as useful first game as it is second and third, unless you know your opponent's deck thoroughly.

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I absolutely disagree with this. Meddling Mage is useful at a bare minimum in it's worst matchups (though they should be sided out against some things). In its good ones, its a wrecking ball. You don't need to know your opponent's deck inside out either, just a working knowledge of the metagame and how decks are built. See a couple mountains? Name bolt. Plains? Silver Knight or Wrath of God. Swamp? Duress or hymn. I think Bardo said it best when he said:

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Originally Posted by Bardo

don't be a pussy.

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Seriously, every mage you play doesn't need to bust their whole plan. If each one is mildy annoying, or forces them to play around it a little bit, you've come out ahead. In summation, don't be a pussy.

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Originally Posted by BlindMage

Meddling Mage is useful at a bare minimum in it's worst matchups (though they should be sided out against some things). In its good ones, its a wrecking ball. You don't need to know your opponent's deck inside out either, just a working knowledge of the metagame and how decks are built. See a couple mountains? Name bolt. Plains? Silver Knight or Wrath of God. Swamp? Duress or hymn.

Seriously, every mage you play doesn't need to bust their whole plan. If each one is mildy annoying, or forces them to play around it a little bit, you've come out ahead.

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Being "useful at a bare minimum" is not good enough for Meddling Mage to deserve a slot over any of the other cards in the deck. Most of the (relatively few) matchups Mage shines in are already favorable, with or without it, which makes its inclusion even harder to justify.

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In summation, don't be a pussy.

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What the hell is this supposed to mean? Is it supposed to convince me to make suboptimal card choices when I build my decks? Only pussies optimize their decklists?

Stop being so stubborn and move the Mages to the sideboard. Pikula will get over it.

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Originally Posted by Obfuscate Freely

Stop being so stubborn and move the Mages to the sideboard. Pikula will get over it.

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I'm willing to do this if for no other reason than they aren't foil, and Chris's signature is ugly as fuck. After the D4D, I've noticed they are usually the first thing to swing into the board game 2, so they seem better fit in there. For the most part, they're just bears, and the only bears I want in play are THE bears. I think having additional manipulation will pay off better in the long run, although I'm considering additional removal, as well. Relying on four Swords alone is getting old.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Nightmare

I'm willing to do this if for no other reason than they aren't foil, and Chris's signature is ugly as fuck. After the D4D, I've noticed they are usually the first thing to swing into the board game 2, so they seem better fit in there. For the most part, they're just bears, and the only bears I want in play are THE bears. I think having additional manipulation will pay off better in the long run, although I'm considering additional removal, as well. Relying on four Swords alone is getting old.

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You will probably find that with the additional hand manipulation you will be able to find what you need when you need it. Thus having only four Swords isn't so much an issue.

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Originally Posted by Ewokslayer

You will probably find that with the additional hand manipulation you will be able to find what you need when you need it. Thus having only four Swords isn't so much an issue.

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I figure that to be the case, but I'm actually being a good little Magic player and testing the new Swords in addition to the 4 already in the deck.

Whatever. I have no idea what you guys are talking about; Medding Mage is one of the strongest cards in the deck for me, and the best argument for playing white over red.

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Originally Posted by BlindMage

Whatever. I have no idea what you guys are talking about; Medding Mage is one of the strongest cards in the deck for me, and the best argument for playing white over red.

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I'm not refuting that it may be for you. In my opinion, the inclusion of the Mages isn't under attack, rather the decision of Maindeck or Side. My meta isn't very Combo-heavy or even control heavy, it's dominated by aggro. Because of this, I feel having him in the main isn't the best use of the slots. This doesn't mean I don't appreciate how good he is in some matchups.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Nightmare

I'm not refuting that it may be for you. In my opinion, the inclusion of the Mages isn't under attack, rather the decision of Maindeck or Side. My meta isn't very Combo-heavy or even control heavy, it's dominated by aggro. Because of this, I feel having him in the main isn't the best use of the slots. This doesn't mean I don't appreciate how good he is in some matchups.

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Actually what you meant to say was OUR META SUCKS! You really never know what you are going to see week to week, with the exception of a few players (you know who they are). So yes I can see Mage going to the board.