[Deck] Affinity

My list isn't far off that - gotta admit your advice helped me shape the list bigtime. Ta for that.:wink:

I've been playing with this deck casually too, amongst friends who have vintage/legacy decks, and I've been playing with a few additional cards that would rarely ever see tourney play.
The one I've been surprised by the most is Salvage Titan as a singleton.
I've found it quite useful post a board wipe or an artifact wipe.
I haven't tried playing with it in a tourney against unknown opponents, but it was quite useful when I drew/found it with Tezz - post wipe.
I should explain, once I've emptied my hand, I play expecting the wipe to come (DoJ, BSZ, Terminus etc.) so I always hold back a few cards that can be potential fuel for it if I have it in hand. I also play a full 4 Darksteel Citadel.
Have any of you tried playing with the Salvage?

Play 4 Etched Champions main. No matter what. They are the strongest creature in the deck, and I would be hard-pressed to even design a 3cc creature as good as Champion.

If you aren't playing Tezz as your finisher there is really no reason to run a Disciple/Vial build. Disciple helps vs just about every match-up, and it's extremely good vs Deed (like really there is nothing better than to plop down a Disciple and have it pseudo-Needle the Deed). Vial is equally potent against U-decks, and helps just as much as a Drum against mana-denial decks.

I also love Enforcer as the decks 3cc beater as it's colorless which is huge vs Maverick. Like HUGE. And they get better in multiples.

here's my list (which has been the same for months really)


18
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
3 City of Brass
2 Ancient Den
1 Karakas

28
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Etched Champion
4 Frogmite
4 Ornithopter
4 Vault Skirge
3 Myr Enforcer
1 Master of Etherium

14
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
3 AEther Vial
3 Mox Opal

Sideboard
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Angel of Despair


The md Karakas is there since I can't really fit it in the sb. I used to have a second one in the sb over the Angel, but now that Omniscience is growing more and more popular by the day I feel that Karakas isn't good enough.

Does Terastodon work vs Omniscience and Emrakul? I'm pretty sure it does, and if it does it would probably be the best option as it gives you more options when it cips.

I would play Tezz in the side but I think Chalice is way stronger vs UW (shuts off all of their removal, SDT, and Brainstorm, which is huge as not only does this force them to Terminus your creatures, but also makes it harder for them to cast a Terminus).

Don't think Affinity is too great of a choice for the meta though, as Terminus really hurts this deck. If they ever print some sort of Artifact Ringleader then it would be amazing, but until then...

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Originally Posted by Kanti

Don't think Affinity is too great of a choice for the meta though, as Terminus really hurts this deck. If they ever print some sort of Artifact Ringleader then it would be amazing, but until then...

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We already have that ringleader: Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas.

Terminus is annoying, but you just have to remember the old days of Standard when you had to play around Wrath of God. Apply a good amount of pressure while sandbagging additional force. It also helps if you have some disruption, ala Spell Pierce, Cabal Therapy, or Chalice. Or have a trump card resistant to Terminus: Tezzeret.

Only that, you know, he's a planeswalker and not a creature (pretty huge) and re-stocks your hand 1 card at a time (pretty slow).

And "the old days of standard" didn't have Plow>Snapcaster>Plow, which make it very difficult to surmount enough pressure to put your opponent on his back. Compounded by the fact that Miracle decks have Disenchants post sb this is really a losing battle. Compare this to a better synergestic aggro-deck (Goblins) which has a positive match-up against UW decks.

There is really no reason to play this deck in the current metagame besides it being someones pet deck.

Kanti, how useful do you find Aether Vial?
Í imagine it's very useful to get past counter etc., but with all the creatures being costed fairly differently, are you just using it for the 3-CMC creatures most of the time?

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Originally Posted by Kanti

Only that, you know, he's a planeswalker and not a creature (pretty huge) and re-stocks your hand 1 card at a time (pretty slow).

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You're right, I forgot that Ringleader doesn't guarantee 5 to the dome nor takes 12-16 life from your opponent by itself. Moot semantics aside, I would put Tezzeret and an artifact Goblin Ringleader more or less on the same playing field as threats control players must answer (or lose).

If you're losing to UW Miracles, it's not because you don't have access to a fictional Goblin Ringleader, it's because you're either not running Tezzeret or your disruption isn't good enough.

Let's digress from Tezzeret for a second. Kanti, I know you claim Chalice is pretty strong against UW, but how has it actually come up in testing? Aside from the fact that it's luck-dependent and that drawing it beyond turns 1-3 is kinda pointless, 1 Disenchant or EE can undo all the effort and setup you made for that game-breaking Chalice. Can you explain to me how Chalice makes this matchup much more manageable than Tezzeret could? I just don't see how a card specifically used as a disruption tool that can answered by Disenchant or EE be a better solution than a card that ignores both mentioned cards, wins on its own, and isn't useless when drawn in the late game. It should be obvious by now that you don't think Chalice is good against Miracles, otherwise you would've mentioned how the Miracles matchup is positive for you now and you wouldn't be saying this bullshit below.

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There is really no reason to play this deck in the current metagame besides it being someones pet deck.

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I'm making a generalization here so I'm not making any statement on your actual skill, but it's this type of attitude that keeps alive the reputation of Affinity being played only by shitty players, and it's why it prevents a progressive and communal discussion of the archetype to become as successful as the Nic Fit thread discussion.

Who are you to say this deck isn't playable anymore, when you yourself have made little effort to try to adapt to the metagame? Trying out Chalice and then giving up on the deck after it doesn't work the way you want it to isn't effort. Kanti, all you've changed from your last decklist is the manabase and 3 relevant sb cards. You still have the 4 Chalices and the 4 Revokers in the SB, and by now you've given up on the matchup as well as Affinity in general. Is it possible for you to consider the outside chance that you might need to adapt your deck instead of heralding the same cards you claim are solid in most if not every matchup (-> Ravager + Disciple, Chalice) and blaming the metagame?

Obviously Chalice hasn't done enough for you against Miracles as you claimed it would. Why not test Tezzeret now, as it was the other sb card you were considering for the Miracles matchup? Feel me to contradict me, but your statements lead me to believe either you are really attached to Disciple or you refuse to actually test Tezzeret. Nothing else makes sense, because you're the only one in this thread so far who continues to believe that Disciple isn't considerable as a card to cut and continues to refuse actually testing Tezzeret. You haven't even tested the very card that everyone else runs to good results and you're wondering why you're having a hard time.

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Originally Posted by Kanti

There is really no reason to play this deck in the current metagame besides it being someones pet deck.

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Just wanted to post out latest results with this deck:

We participated at a local store legacy event. There were 19 people and we ended in first place with affinity (and second with the gate and 7th with reanimator).

We played this list:

3 etched champion
4 frogmite
4 vault skirge
4 master of etherium
4 ornithopter
4 memnite
2 arcbound ravager
4 cranial plating
4 thoughtcast
4 chalice of the void
3 mox opal
3 springleaf drum
2 tezzeret, agent of bolas

4 ancient tomb
4 seat of the synod
3 vault of whispers
4 darksteel citadel

SB:
3 phyrexian revoker
2 cursed totem
2 grafdigger’s cage
2 tormod’s crypt
2 spellskite
2 thorn of amethyst
2 meekstone

Dunno if this deck was paired against miracles since one of my teammates was playing with it, but chalice was the star of the show for the deck. According to him nearly half of the matches were won due to an early chalice sticking on 1. Spellskite was also amazing.

Now we have found a 4th mox so the list has been changed to the following to completely exclude any spells with cmc 1 in the maindeck:

3 etched champion
4 frogmite
4 vault skirge
4 master of etherium
4 ornithopter
4 memnite
3 arcbound ravager
4 cranial plating
4 thoughtcast
4 chalice of the void
4 mox opal
2 tezzeret, agent of bolas

4 ancient tomb
4 seat of the synod
4 vault of whispers
4 darksteel citadel

SB:
3 phyrexian revoker
2 cursed totem
2 grafdigger’s cage
2 tormod’s crypt
2 spellskite
2 thorn of amethyst
2 meekstone

Just to point out affinity can still kick some ass!

Just because Tezzeret is as much as a threat to Tundra control decks doesn't mean you should be comparing it to a Ringleader, who would be good vs Tundra and versus Bayou and versus Volcanic Island and etc etc etc. Tezz doesn't guarantee 5 to the dome, and his ultimate ability doesn't always get the chance to go off. Compare this to an Envoy effect and you can see how a guaranteed X/Y body that creature CA on the spot would be miles better. Him being a Planeswalker is something that even furthers the blow as you can't Vial him in, and he gets hit by Spell Pierce, which sees play in just about every U-deck.

How strong is Chalice against Miracles? Extremely strong. A resolved Chalice against a Miracle deck makes it very, very hard for the Tundra player to interact with you. Seeing as I would be siding in x4 Revokers against them as well E.E becomes much less of a problem. Tezzeret winning on his own is a pipe dream. If you are not seeing how disruption can be better than another threat you should maybe spend some time playing other decks, maybe something like Death and Taxes, or even Pox, to see just how much damage disruption can do in this format. And no, the card isn't dead passed t3. A resolved Chalice on t4 for 1-2 is still extremely strong. And that is on it's lonesome. If you already have a Chalice@1 out and resolve a Chalice@2 the game is pretty much yours.

Nothing, I repeat NOTHING, will make the Miracle match-up positive, barring sbing +2-4 Tezz, +4 Revokers, +4 Chalice. Even then the match-up would still probably be 50-50. Saying a card isn't good against a deck because it doesn't make the match-up positive is pure idiocy. By that line of thought Leyline of the Void isn't good versus Dredge because they can play around it. A resolved Chalice, in my testing, is the best shot this deck has of winning the Miracle match-up.

So it's not Chalice that isn't doing enough for me, it's the other 56 cards I'm running in the deck. Do yourself a favor and test Chalice yourself before bashing it. And I don't really understand the part about it being "luck dependant". What the fuck does that even mean?

I have tested Tezzeret Affinity, and I have had much more positive results with Vial Affinity as opposed to Tezzeret Affinity. I don't know where you got the idea that I "refuse to test Tezzeret" but that is a pretty baseless statement. How on earth do you know what I do, and don't test?

I have tried to adapt, and it has brought me to my sideboard. I tested a bunch of weird sideboards and decided it was best to get back to basics. Chalice is incredible against so many decks in the format (UW Tundra, Canadian Thresh, Storm, Elves), and Revoker is pretty much the same (UW Tundra, Maverick, SnT, Storm). Crypt is obviously good vs Reanimator and Dredge (especially against Dredge where running x4 Ravager already lets you steal some g1's. g2 you will have 8 hate cards against them which is huge)

Disciple+Ravager is amazing. They are some of the strongest cards this deck has besides Champion and Plating. I don't really think I can explain this anymore (I posted my thoughts some pages ago). Turning everything into [card]Shock[/cards] is good, among the other dozens of uses they have (blank spot removal, get around blockers, combo-kill them, stop Jitte, stop Lifelink, make Deed useless, stop Emrakul, makes Etched Champion a monster, makes Vault Skirge a monster, allows you to profitably block Goyf). Why do I herald these cards? Because they are fucking AMAZING. And they have been since Affinity has existed. Compare that to running, what, Memnite over Disciple? Yeah, that's real smart.

My list hasn't changed because it's solid. It hasn't changed because this is probably the most linear deck in Magic, passed some nonesense like Belcher. If you need any explanation regarding my card choices I suggest you read the opening post, about 8 times over.

A possibility is to cut the Crypts for 2-3 Tezz, +some other card. You'd be sacrificing the Reanimator and Dredge matches for the UW match. This might be worth it, but it's metagame dependant and would probably do you over at a larger event when you face Dredge and auto-lose.

I stand by my comment. Unless you are playing this deck because you like it there is no reason not to choose another, more powerful, aggro-deck. If you don't agree with this I don't really care, but you are cutting yourself short of winning more games. If I had to swing with creatures I'd play Elves or Gobbos any day over this pile.

And I didn't say it wasn't playable. I only said that there was no reason to play this deck less it was your pet deck. Affinity has no advantages over Goblins. None. And this is before Cavern and Krenko were even printed.

Also, please direct me to the "good results" that everyone playing Tezz Affinity runs to. Besides like 3-4 SCG finishes (which all occured before Miracles became a deck) the deck blows. Not only does it lose to Miracles but it has a very tough time against Maverick, especially if you run a lot of Master of Etheriums as they are never going to connect.

Affinity is shit. That I typed out this huge wall of text for such a shitty deck is a disappointment.


@John

Congratz on the result. I've been thinking of putting Chalice in the main as well, just don't know what I would cut. I've also been pondering on cutting the Frogmites for Revokers and putting in the 4th Vial main-deck. This might actually be a good idea.

I'd find room for the 4th Champion, like I said earlier. He is your best threat vs UW, RUG, Maverick, and Goblins.

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Originally Posted by Kanti

Just because Tezzeret is as much as a threat to Tundra control decks doesn't mean you should be comparing it to a Ringleader

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You're the one who made the comparison, not me. I didn't literally mean we have a functional equivalent of Goblin Ringleader in the form of Tezzeret. All I meant was that we have a proactive threat that is more or less as problematic for Miracles as an artifact Ringleader would. One of these cards actually exists and the other one doesn't, so making a serious comparison between the two is an exercise in jackassery.

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Tezzeret winning on his own is a pipe dream.

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Hyperbole much? I've already explained many times how Tezzeret can win the game by itself and it's not hard at all to win after it resolves. How hard is that for you to understand? Use your brain. Tezzeret has 3 abilities, all of which are relevant against Miracles. I'm not going to spell this out for you anymore.

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If you are not seeing how disruption can be better than another threat you should maybe spend some time playing other decks, maybe something like Death and Taxes, or even Pox, to see just how much damage disruption can do in this format.

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Thanks for that wonderful advice, Kanti! I had no idea how useful disruption can be against other decks. I mean, what was I thinking using Spell Pierce to improve my matchups against control and combo? How stupid of me to think my strategy would do anything other than disrupt my opponent?

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I have tested Tezzeret Affinity, and I have had much more positive results with Vial Affinity as opposed to Tezzeret Affinity. I don't know where you got the idea that I "refuse to test Tezzeret" but that is a pretty baseless statement. How on earth do you know what I do, and don't test?

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You're right, I don't know what you do or test, and I believe you when you say - you - have - tested - Tezzeret - in - the - past. In. The. Past. Testing Tezzeret when it came out in January 2011 or whenever the fuck you tested him isn't the same as testing him now. You should be interested in testing Tezzeret against a specific matchup, not testing Tezz to see how good it is in Affinity.

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Turning everything into [b][card]Shock[/cards] is good, among the other dozens of uses they have (blank spot removal, get around blockers, combo-kill them, stop Jitte, stop Lifelink, make Deed useless, stop Emrakul, makes Etched Champion a monster, makes Vault Skirge a monster, allows you to profitably block Goyf).

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I'm talking about Disciple, not Ravager, so spare me. Notice how you need Ravager for most of those uses? Take away Ravager, what do you get? You get a puny 1/1 nonartifact that does nothing on its own, and the fact it doesn't hurt your opponent when they cast Terminus is pretty relevant if you are trying to justify keeping Disciple against Miracles.

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Why do I herald these cards? Because they are fucking AMAZING. And they have been since Affinity has existed. Compare that to running, what, Memnite over Disciple? Yeah, that's real smart.

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Right, running a free card that turns your Drum into a Mox is terribly irrelevant and inconsistent, I should just run a nonartifact 1/1 that doesn't activate Mox Opal, doesn't improve Cranial Plating, and doesn't help me cast Thoughtcast on turn 1 or turn 2 with mana backup for Daze or Spell Pierce. Real smart wouldn't you say?

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My list hasn't changed because it's solid. It hasn't changed because this is probably the most linear deck in Magic, passed some nonesense like Belcher. If you need any explanation regarding my card choices I suggest you read the opening post, about 8 times over.

Also, please direct me to the "good results" that everyone playing Tezz Affinity runs to. Besides like 3-4 SCG finishes (which all occured before Miracles became a deck) the deck blows. Not only does it lose to Miracles but it has a very tough time against Maverick, especially if you run a lot of Master of Etheriums as they are never going to connect.

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Perhaps you should read this 8 times over:

"What really decides if a deck falls into the linear category is its strategic focus. If a deck is totally focused on pursuing one single angle of attack or abusing one particular kind of interaction, that is what Magic theory calls a linear deck." - Carsten Kotter's article on linear decks

Affinity doesn't fall into this category. It can win through the attack phase, Disciple life loss, or Tezzeret activations. 3 different lines of attack. Not linear, and a deck that isn't linear has plenty of room for change in its design to add or subtract focus on a particular line of attack. In English, no card in the Affinity archetype is above the eye of scrutiny. Including Disciple of the Vault.

In your quote you say your list is solid, yet you're bitching about two matchups, matchups by the way I have by now told you how to address (both on the Source and on MWS). You can say you've tried stuff but you can't go back to the same decklist and expect different results. Then again, I don't care what you do. You can dump the deck if you like, but don't think about saying the deck can't hack in today's metagame if you haven't tried all the available options for a particular matchup. That includes testing Tezzeret specifically against Miracles and I can tell from your posts that you haven't done that.

And popularity or lack thereof has no correlation with the power level of ANY deck. This is the second time you've brought up the 'results' argument when it doesn't have to do with what we're discussing. I mean, really?

Different angles of attack aren't what make a strategy linear or non-linear, they are simply the difference between being interactive vs non-interactive.

Dredge has multiple angles too, whether it be slow beats with Ichorid and Narcomoeba, 2/2 tokens, or a reanimated fatty. They can also interact with Therapy.

Burn can interact by aiming some of the burn at the opponent's creatures, and they also use creatures these days as another angle of attack.

What constitutes linearity vs non-linearity lies within the fundamental strategy of the deck. There are two basic principles to this.

The first principle:
When you want to drop your hand with a bunch of cheap or free artifact creatures and smash face, that's pretty linear. Most of the creatures are horrible on defense, most lists have limited removal options, and most lists have no way to interact with the stack or otherwise disrupt its opponents. You're entire goal is to drop the opponent from 20 to 0 as fast as possible. Tezzeret does is give you some midgame strength, to compensate for the deck crapping out due to running a ton of underpowered threats like 0/2 fliers and 1/1's. It is still linear though... it either makes a 5/5, does some damage and gains some life, or gives you an Impulse.

When you start running Dispatch, Cabal Therapy, Spell Pierce, Jitte, etc... you become more interactive and less linear.

Which brings me to another point; there isn't some exact difference that makes one deck linear and one deck non-linear. It's not always an all or nothing thing. Some decks are extremely linear, while other decks are only slightly linear. Most Affinity lists are extremely linear, while some are less so.

The second principle:
Affinity's construction is primarily (and almost completely) artifact based, which makes it very linear in this regard. Much like Dredge goes all in on the graveyard, or Burn goes all in on one-time effects to reduce its opponents life total, Affinity goes all in with artifacts. This is what makes linear strategies hard to beat when there are too many of them seeing alot of play in the format (too much specific hate required), and what makes them easy to hate out when there are not that many seeing alot of play in the format.

Affinity isn't linear? AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Is that a joke? Affinity's strategic focus is smashing through with tons of artifacts, and abusing the interaction between them and it's namesake mechanic.

And no, I didn't make the comparison. You know when you replied to my first post with this "We already have that ringleader: Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas" as your opening sentence? Sorry I took the bait and replied, but don't change the story.

Just like the "results arguement", that is me taking the bait again after you typed "You haven't even tested the very card that everyone else runs to good results and you're wondering why you're having a hard time. ". I simply asked you to show me these results that you speak of. This is the second time you say something and blame me on using it as an arguement. Pretty coy man, pretty coy.

Running 8 0cc creatures without Pest is terrible. Absolutely terrible. You say you gain speed with Memnite but you actually lose it as your deck can't combo somebody out via DotV+Ravager. If you would go back to Pest you probably woudn't lose too much speed at all since Pest is pretty damn good once you make the decision to run Memnite. If you are resolving a DotV you can wait a turn to resolve a Thoughtcast.

Thank you for telling me how to adress the matchups. To bad Spell Pierce is absolute shit compared to Chalice. You say I am losing vs Miracles because my disruption isn't good enough, yet you'd rather have Pierce as disruption over Chalice? Are you kidding me? Pierce is stronger than Chalice? Cmon... Chalice, besides being immensely stronger once resolves, is even an artifact. In Affinity. Cmon.

Anyhow, I've told you I would like to fit a Tezzeret in the deck for UW but I can't really find the room. And seeing as he's only good vs UW I'd be sacrificing other match-ups. Revoker+Chalice can take care of Storm more often than you think, as can O-Ring/Angel+Revoker against SnT. Even taking out 1 Revoker would make me stronger vs Miracles, but weaker versus other decks.

An option would be to replace the MoE in the main with a Tezz, and shave a Revoker in the side, but I'm not really sure that that is correct. Especially since casting Tezz in a Vial build can get to be tough.

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Originally Posted by Kanti

Running 8 0cc creatures without Pest is terrible. Absolutely terrible. You say you gain speed with Memnite but you actually lose it as your deck can't combo somebody out via DotV+Ravager. If you would go back to Pest you probably woudn't lose too much speed at all since Pest is pretty damn good once you make the decision to run Memnite. If you are resolving a DotV you can wait a turn to resolve a Thoughtcast.

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This whole paragraph is terrible. Again, you always mention Disciple and Ravager in the same sentence like their conjoined twins. Stop thinking about Ravager for a second. When Ravager + Disciple isn't an available game plan during a game, Disciple is in every way worse than Memnite as Memnite contributes to the synergies of the deck (Opal, Thoughtcast). I care more about consistency than situational explosiveness. I cut Pest for resilience purposes, not out of an issue of speed.

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Thank you for telling me how to adress the matchups. To bad Spell Pierce is absolute shit compared to Chalice. You say I am losing vs Miracles because my disruption isn't good enough, yet you'd rather have Pierce as disruption over Chalice? Are you kidding me? Pierce is stronger than Chalice? Cmon... Chalice, besides being immensely stronger once resolves, is even an artifact. In Affinity. Cmon.

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Read what I said carefully. Either you're not running Tezz or your disruption isn't good enough. One or the other, possibly both.

No, I'm not kidding. And yes, Spell Pierce is way better than Chalice, unless knowing how to time a counterspell is too difficult for you. You don't need to lock your opponent out of the game since you're an aggro deck. You just need to disrupt them temporarily until you win. And Spell Pierce is excellent disruption because it punishes an opponent for tapping out to answer your threats. It not only counters the answer they were relying on, but it makes them harder to cast another answer by the time they untap. Still think I'm just kidding?

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Anyhow, I've told you I would like to fit a Tezzeret in the deck for UW but I can't really find the room. And seeing as he's only good vs UW I'd be sacrificing other match-ups. Revoker+Chalice can take care of Storm more often than you think, as can O-Ring/Angel+Revoker against SnT. Even taking out 1 Revoker would make me stronger vs Miracles, but weaker versus other decks.

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Forget your combo matchups, just focus on Miracles, because you're more likely to run into those. I would cut all the Revokers anyway. Revokers are useless post-Terminus and they can be bounced by Jace or surprise-butt-sexed by Snapcaster Mage even if you have Chalice@1 stopping STP.

Read the opening post of the thread on Disciple. He isn't only good when Ravager is out. He punished Wasteland, allows you to do Vial tricks, he makes it so your opponent can't chump all day when he's on sub-5ish life, he is amazing against Deed, he is a lightning rod for your opponents removal, he makes Wasteland cost 1 life, he can stop an Emrakul attack. His value has diminished since Terminus became the de-facto board sweeper, but he is still damn good. Running Vial ensures you will have a good chance at resolving him against U-decks.

I don't think you are kidding with Pierce, I just think you are delusional, or you just never played Chalice. Chalice is amazing in this format. How many times does Miracles tap-out to answer your threats? I find it to be not that many. And even when they do, and you catch them with Pierce, you are still only countering 1 spell. Compare that to countering 1/4-1/3 of their deck, and helping you with Affinity.

And in a large tournament you are bound to encounter combo. Auto-losing doesn't really happen when you have x4 Revokers and x4 Chalice. The reason why I run them is because they are relevant in almost every single match-up. Ravager makes it so you can actually race combo decks by going all out (swing t2-t3 for 4-7ish damage, without Disciple).

Yes, Revokers are useless post-Terminus, but they make resolving Terminus a nightmare by shutting off SDT. And Jace is usually never going to hit them as you are going to be naming him with a Revoker, after you name SDT. If you fear a chump-blocking Snapcaster coming your way you can just sit back on Revoker and let him act like a Needle. Even if my opp does land a Jace on t4 to bounce my Revoker, I can just re-cast him. And if Forces it then tough luck. The combination of Revoker and Chalice is brutal to UW Tundra control (Blade, and Miracle alike).

I'll be testing cutting the MoE in my main for a Tezz and see how it works out. I hate him in the Mav match-up, and though he's amazing vs RUG and pretty damn good against UW Tundra decks there isn't a reason to test him.

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I'll be testing cutting the MoE in my main for a Tezz and see how it works out. I hate him in the Mav match-up, and though he's amazing vs RUG and pretty damn good against UW Tundra decks there isn't a reason to test him.

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If you have a Mox Opal (or other worthless artifact out), Tezz is a 5/5 for 4 at worst that also prevents X damage (if you can't block enough of it, and it goes to Tezz instead of you). Slightly better, it turns 0/2 fliers and 1/1 flying lifelinkers into 5/5 fliers (and lifelink with Skirge), before dying. At best, it's a card advantage engine that is more powerful than Tezzeret (in this deck), and/or can instantly win the game the turn after it comes into play.

I think you got it backwards. He's great against Maverick.

He's awful in the RUG matchup because they can prevent it from coming down with Wasteland/Daze/Pierce, can Stifle it for a big gain of tempo, or can Bolt it if you make a 5/5 (and then swing in the air for 3 with Delver or on the ground for 6 with Goyf).

You read that wrong, mate. I was talking about MoE being horrible in the Maverick match-up, but amazing against RUG.MoE just gets chumped all day from Mother or Scryb Ranger, and a Mav player can fetch one of those up really easily, and quickly if they want to. He is just BEASTLY vs RUG though, and very good against UW.

Now that we are on the subject though, I don't know if Tezz is that great vs Mav, especially in a Vial build. Remember that they run Waste, and KotR>Waste. This can make resolving him a pain in the ass, especially if you are running Vial.

The way I see it is if a build is running Vial it should probably steer clear of Tezz, passed in the sb, as he can be very difficult to cast with only 21 mana sources, especially considering his UB requirments and the presence of Wasteland in the meta. If you run Drums and SOL lands he becomes very easy to cast, but then you are losing Vial which I'm not really ready to do.

I want to test a split between MoE and Enforcers though, as I'd have some more Vial targets at 3 and probably be better off vs anything but Maverick or Death and Taxes. MoE is usually an all star vs UW, as vs SFM decks he can take out a Bskull outright by virtue of being a huge fucker, and vs Miracles he makes it so you don't have to overcommit to have a heavy board presence.

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Originally Posted by Kanti

Read the opening post of the thread on Disciple. He isn't only good when Ravager is out. He punished Wasteland, allows you to do Vial tricks, he makes it so your opponent can't chump all day when he's on sub-5ish life, he is amazing against Deed, he is a lightning rod for your opponents removal, he makes Wasteland cost 1 life, he can stop an Emrakul attack. His value has diminished since Terminus became the de-facto board sweeper, but he is still damn good. Running Vial ensures you will have a good chance at resolving him against U-decks.

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You're overrating Disciple, because he's only amazing in those instances where your opponent is close to lethal. As long as your opponent doesn't die, why should they care about Disciple if an action they take essentially wins them the game? If your opponent is at 10-15 life, they're not going to care about taking 5 as a cost for Annihilator 6... a Deed player doesn't mind losing 5-6 life if it means wiping out your entire board INCLUDING Disciple. Like I said, on its own Disciple is a situational suicide bomber. Key word is situational.

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I don't think you are kidding with Pierce, I just think you are delusional, or you just never played Chalice. Chalice is amazing in this format. How many times does Miracles tap-out to answer your threats? I find it to be not that many. And even when they do, and you catch them with Pierce, you are still only countering 1 spell. Compare that to countering 1/4-1/3 of their deck, and helping you with Affinity.

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Here's what I"m trying to get at: Chalice doesn't stop Terminus from actually resolving, even if you play it before they land a Top. Furthermore, Miracle decks still keep Jace post-board, and don't forget that Jace can Brainstorm an opening hand Terminus back in the library to Miracle next turn.

And that's if they haven't dropped a Top. Without Mox Opal, your earliest Chalice is on turn 2, which may not even be useful as Miracles will undoubtedly slam a Top on their first turn. Even with Opal, having only 4 Ornithopter significantly decreases your chance of getting two mana on turn 1. (This is one reason why Memnite > Disciple.)

Spell Pierce directly answers Terminus. It also answers Entreat the Angels, and most likely counters it unless they have a Force, because the opponent will never keep mana open while casting Entreat (likely because they don't know you run Spell Pierce). Spell Pierce can counter Moat or Humility. Chalice can't stop directly stop any of the cards I mentioned.

Chalice only stops the small removal (STP) and the card selection, but it doesn't stop the key spells that actually ruin your day. Despite all that, I think Chalice would still be good against Miracles, but I don't like the possibility of Miracles removing it (EE/Disenchant) with no blowback.

Eh. Don't forget that should the Miracle player have a hand that enables a turn 3-4 Terminus he will most likely hold any countermagic for your Platings anyway which splash damages any sneaky Pierces something fierce. And if he knows it's coming, resolving what is effectively a 1-mana spell is trivial. Chalice@1 by comparison comes down early and shuts down BS, Top and STP, all of which are spells that helps Miracles stay alive until they can drop their midgame bombs. Also, even if it does get hit by Disenchant post-SB, that's removal that isn't aimed at your Platings. And let's be realistic, Platings along with Nexii is what keeps any build of Affinity in the game post-sweepers.

Also, Affinity isn't really a deck where you can afford to hold back colored mana just in case - especially considering all of your bombs except Plating already cost blue.

As for MoE not being good against Maverick ..what? It's still a Lord first and foremost, even if it cannot attack directly it still helps your little brown men push through/survive pings/whatever. That alone makes it good even disregarding the fact that if it goes unanswered you just win.

Just like with Disciple and Ravager though, you won't always have a Memnite and Opal. Running Opal with Orni/Skirge still lets you go land, Opal, Vial/Skirge, Frogmite/Disciple. So even when you don't get a Memnite+Opal you can be accelerating with the tons of other cheap cards in your deck. You say not to base a cards value on it's potential with other cards, yet never fail to mention Opal+Memnite whenever you talk of him. I'm not overrating Disciple. Against Emrakul he is really an all out, and obviously this is bad example, but against Deed he is the most amazing card. Blow up all of my board, take 7, and if you aren't dead have fun dealing with my Frogmites and Enforcers. If he doesn't win you the game on the spot he is making it easier to win at a later stage as for 1b mana you did 5-6 damage. That is value, period. Memnite on his own is what? A 1/1 artifact without modular? I'd honestly rather play Arcbound Worker over Memnite.

If you think a Chalice isn't useful on t2 you really just have not played with it.

Sure you can directly answer Terminus, but a lot of times a UW Miracle player can just Plow you death, and use their Snapcasters as chump and/or removal. After you blow a Pierce they are also unlikely to not keep 2 mana open, which is nice since you can potentially slow them down, but it will bite you in the ass when you are really depending on not getting hit by a spell.

You also don't note that I have 4 Revokers, which can be uncounterable with Vial. They deal with resolved tops and Jaces, and E.E.

Sorry for the doulbe post, damn editing feature.

In my testing Maverick usually just GSZ's a Ranger, and renders my MoE useless. He's the first card I side out against them.

Also, I've been thinking of adding some Nexuses back the the deck, Blinkmoths. I could sub out O-Rings for Angel of Despair in the sb, and cut out some Dens for a Nexus. This will hurt with getting to affinity, and beyond, but it's worth a shot as it is pretty amazing post-sweeper.

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Originally Posted by Infinitium

Eh. Don't forget that should the Miracle player have a hand that enables a turn 3-4 Terminus he will most likely hold any countermagic for your Platings anyway which splash damages any sneaky Pierces something fierce.And if he knows it's coming, resolving what is effectively a 1-mana spell is trivial. Chalice@1 by comparison comes down early and shuts down BS, Top and STP, all of which are spells that helps Miracles stay alive until they can drop their midgame bombs. Also, even if it does get hit by Disenchant post-SB, that's removal that isn't aimed at your Platings. And let's be realistic, Platings along with Nexii is what keeps any build of Affinity in the game post-sweepers.

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They can sandbag counters, but they likely won't. I guarantee enough pressure to prevent this. Also, Tezzeret post-board. Nexi could be actually good against Miracles, but I don't use them because I like being able to cast Thoughtcast consistently, which is the same reason I cut Sol lands.

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Also, Affinity isn't really a deck where you can afford to hold back colored mana just in case - especially considering all of your bombs except Plating already cost blue.

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You don't have to hold back every turn, just deploy threats by turn 1-3. Or you could just have leftover mana, which is a thing in this deck after you empty your hand.

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As for MoE not being good against Maverick ..what? It's still a Lord first and foremost, even if it cannot attack directly it still helps your little brown men push through/survive pings/whatever. That alone makes it good even disregarding the fact that if it goes unanswered you just win.

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If unanswered (looks at STP, Pridemage, Mother of Runes, Scryb Ranger, and maybe Krosan Grip). I think I can say Kanti and I both agree on MoE not being so hot in the Mav matchup. You have better cards to run in the board, be it Revoker if you're Kanti or Jitte if you're me.

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Originally Posted by Kanti

Just like with Disciple and Ravager though, you won't always have a Memnite and Opal. Running Opal with Orni/Skirge still lets you go land, Opal, Vial/Skirge, Frogmite/Disciple. So even when you don't get a Memnite+Opal you can be accelerating with the tons of other cheap cards in your deck. You say not to base a cards value on it's potential with other cards, yet never fail to mention Opal+Memnite whenever you talk of him. I'm not overrating Disciple. Against Emrakul he is really an all out, and obviously this is bad example, but against Deed he is the most amazing card. Blow up all of my board, take 7, and if you aren't dead have fun dealing with my Frogmites and Enforcers. If he doesn't win you the game on the spot he is making it easier to win at a later stage as for 1b mana you did 5-6 damage. That is value, period. Memnite on his own is what? A 1/1 artifact without modular? I'd honestly rather play Arcbound Worker over Memnite.

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It's not just Mox Opal that benefits from Memnite. It's practically every other card in the deck, especially Frogmite and Myr Enforcer and Thoughtcast.

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Sure you can directly answer Terminus, but a lot of times a UW Miracle player can just Plow you death, and use their Snapcasters as chump and/or removal. After you blow a Pierce they are also unlikely to not keep 2 mana open, which is nice since you can potentially slow them down, but it will bite you in the ass when you are really depending on not getting hit by a spell.

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"Plowing us to death" is less likely to happen than seeing Terminus, so I'd rather anticipate that. Anyway, don't both of us already run Champ and Plating?

If I can resolve a Spell Pierce once, that is usually all I need to win the game.

I decided I'd like to revitalize this thread a little :)

Here is my holy trinity of Affinity:

Steelblade

// Lands (16)
4 [UNH] Plains
4 [MR] Ancient Den
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [DS] Blinkmoth Nexus

// Creatures (20)
4 [R] Ornithopter
4 [NPH] Vault Skirge
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
4 [NPH] Puresteel Paladin

// Spells (24)
4 [MBS] Flayer Husk
1 [NPH] Batterskull
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 [MBS] Sword of Feast and Famine
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
4 [FD] Paradise Mantle
3 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [NPH] Dispatch

// Sideboard (15)
SB: 1 [SOK] Manriki-Gusari
SB: 1 [M12] Swiftfoot Boots
SB: 1 [MBS] Mortarpod
SB: 4 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt

This version plays like a white weenie deck, with a twist. You play the typical white weenie game with creatures like Mother of Runes and Stoneforge Mystic with equipments, but you combine it with the explosiveness of affinity. The deck is built around Puresteel Paladin, who gives the deck a massive card advantage engine and makes all the equipment costs free. Flayer Husk is this decks Arcbound Worker, and the deck has tons of artifacts to enable Metalcraft and Cranial Plating.

Metalboros

// Lands (16)
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [R] Plateau
1 [UNH] Plains
4 [MR] Ancient Den
4 [MR] Great Furnace

// Creatures (24)
4 [SOM] Memnite
4 [MR] Frogmite
4 [CFX] Court Homunculus
4 [MBS] Ardent Recruit
4 [SOM] Auriok Sunchaser
4 [NPH] Porcelain Legionnaire

// Spells (20)
4 [R] Lightning Bolt
4 [SOM] Galvanic Blast
4 [NPH] Dispatch
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
4 [SOM] Mox Opal

// Sideboard (15)
SB: 3 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 3 [DKA] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 3 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
SB: 3 [SC] Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt

This version plays like a Zoo deck, with a twist. You're structured fairly similar to Zoo, with the appropriate curve of 1-drops, 2-drops, and 12 1cc spot removal spells, but the deck is capable of exploding with Mox Opal and Cranial Plating. The spot removal clears the way for the groundbound guys to push damage through, and the Sunchasers and Legionnaires are great Plating-wearers. Blast and Dispatch are much stronger than Chain and Path.

Esper Tezzerator

// Lands (17)
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
4 [MR] Ancient Den
4 [R] Underground Sea
1 [US] Gaea's Cradle

// Creatures (20)
4 [VI] Phyrexian Walker
4 [R] Ornithopter
4 [GTW] Vault Skirge
4 [PC2] Baleful Strix
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic

// Spells (23)
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
3 [MBS] Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 [ARB] Thopter Foundry
1 [FUT] Sword of the Meek
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
3 [LRW] Springleaf Drum
4 [SOM] Mox Opal

// Sideboard (15)
SB: 4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
SB: 3 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb

This version plays like the more traditional combo affinity lists, with a twist. Thopter Foundy gives this deck serious resilience to removal, both single target and mass effect. The insane amount of card advantage allow this deck to consistently find its combo pieces. The card advantage and Thopters give this deck an incredible amount of resiliency overall. This version is more of a combo/control version than an aggro version, but still uses Plating as its primary means of victory. Walker is used over Memnite because it holds back aggro against opposing creatures in the early game while it sets up its card advantage and combo pieces, but it can still attack with a Plating unlike Shield Sphere, and Thopter can turn it into a 1/1 flier later on.

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If anyone would like a more detailed write-up on any of the lists, thorough card explanations, etc... let me know. These lists have been pretty thoroughly tested and optimized; they're not just some randomly thrown together piles that I thought would look cool.

Hanni: always appreciate your posts. Definitely gives the Affinity lovers some food for thought. Can you elaborate on each variant fares versus decks to beat? Or which metas they can be played in? Do you favour a particular build yourself?

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Hanni: always appreciate your posts. Definitely gives the Affinity lovers some food for thought. Can you elaborate on each variant fares versus decks to beat? Or which metas they can be played in? Do you favour a particular build yourself?

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Sure thing.

All 3 decks are based on Metalcraft, meaning all 3 still have the ability to have explosive openings with artifact lands, Mox Opal, and the 0cc creatures. This is the main aspect that deviates them from their traditional roles. Beyond that, each has is unique in playstyle. I'll do a little bit more thorough of an analysis on each one. I do not have a particular favorite, as I enjoy playing all 3.

I'm going to make a separate post for each one. I don't have the time to do all 3 right away, but I will make sure do a write-up for all 3 as time permits.

Steelblade

Deck Overview

This version is built around Puresteel Paladin, which makes the title "Steelblade" rather suiting. The entire deck is structured around him; the deck is has 17 equipment spells maindeck, and an additional 3 more in the sideboard. This gives the deck a very strong draw engine, which is something that typical white weenie decks tend to lack. The ability it equip equipment's for free is also insane; the tempo boost is not to be underestimated. The fact you can pile up all your equipments on your offensive creatures, and then swap them all over to your defensive creatures after the combat step... priceless.

Other than that, this deck is structured in a vaguely similar way to what you might expect of other white weenie decks... a bunch of weenies, a small amount of spot removal, and some equipment's to make the weenies bigger. You have traditional white weenie creatures like Mother of Runes, which can be used both offensively and defensively, and Stoneforge Mystic to grab the normal tools you would expect, like Jitte and Batterskull. This deck can often just play the fair "large threat density" strategy (with strong card advantage engines, in this case), which tends to work well against aggro/control and control decks.

By fair aggro deck, I'm talking about simple plays like this:

Turn 1: Plains, Mother of Runes, Ornithopter.
Turn 2: Darksteel Citadel, Vault Skirge, EOT Dispatch.
Turn 3: Blinkmoth Nexus, Stoneforge Mystic, grabbing Batterskull (w/ protection)
Turn 4: Batterskull.

At the same time, this deck contains the explosive Affinity element. The overlay of Affinity cards with white weenie cards is a very smooth package, in this regard. Mox Opal and Paradise Mantle help to accelerate the decks early game much faster than the speed of a typical white weenie deck (in terms of board development), and Cranial Plating equipped to fliers (or protection from Mom) can speed up the clock dramatically, which improves the decks combo and aggro matchups. It is not uncommon to have extremely explosive starts.

By explosive starts, they can be as complicated as this:

Turn 1: Ancient Den, Mox Opal, Vault Skirge, and Mother of Runes.
Turn 2: Darksteel Citadel, Puresteel Paladin, Paradise Mantle, Flayer Husk, swing for 1 with Skirge (+2 cards drawn from Puresteel).
Turn 3: Plains, equip Mantle to Husk, Stoneforge Mystic, Cranial Plating, equip Mantle to Puresteel, Cranial Plating, Paradise Mantle, equip Husk and 2 Platings to Skirge, swing for 20 (+3 cards drawn from Puresteel + 1 from SFM).

...and that's coming from a white weenie deck. Of course, the deck doesn't get explosive openings like that all the time, and the average goldfish is definitely not turn 3. The other thing to remember, is that an opponent may hit the turn 1 Mother of Runes and Skirge play with a turn 1 Forked Bolt (vs the explosive start), cast a Force of Will on the turn 3 Stoneforge Mystic (vs the fair start), etc.

Card Choices

The manabase is structured around producing adequate white mana, while enabling Metalcraft.

With 4 Paradise Mantle and 3 Mox Opal, I feel that 16 lands is sufficient, since the deck doesn't want to get flooded with too many mana sources.

8 Artifact lands feel pretty comfortable; Ancient Den is pretty standard, and since the deck is monocolored, Darksteel Citadel makes sense as my other artifact land.

Blinkmoth Nexus gives the deck some manlands to add some resiliency against mass sweeps like Terminus, and the flying allows them to carry equipment over blockers. The can also tap and activate to give the deck another artifact in cases where it needs to hit Metalcraft for Mox Opal (for white mana) or Dispatch.

To round out the manabase, I added 4 Plains.

The deck currently has 15 sources of white mana, which has been sufficient for me so far; Puresteel Paladin is the only spell requiring WW. However, 15 is a bit low for hitting WW consistently sometimes, so I may look to cutting some Blinkmoths for more Plains (and 1 Karakas), in the future.

The ability to tutor for Mantle with SFM when I need WW for Puresteel works, altough it is a lackluster play.

Paradise Mantle is an important piece of the deck. At 0cc, it helps enable Metalcraft early, it can provide mana ramp (especially midgame with a Puresteel Paladin), and it provides white mana. There are better options for this spot for the early game, like Springleaf Drum, but the fact that it is a equipment is more important. Each Mantle is a 0cc cantrip with just a single Paladin on the table (with multiple Paladins, the deck usually goes nuts). They also attach for free with Paladin on the board, allowing a single Mantle to tap for a bunch of mana (where Springleaf would only tap for 1).

Mox Opal is ran as a 3-of, because the deck doesn't actually need the early accel due to its fantastic 1cc curve, and the deck does not have ways to pitch extras. 3 feels right, for now. I may move these up to 4 in the future.

Despite the creature base only having 20 creatures, the Flayer Husks and Batterskulls count as creatures too, so the deck is actually playing with 25 creatures.

I'm running Ornithopter's to help me enable Metalcraft more consistently and buff up Platings. I chose Ornithopter's because they have flying, and therefore carry equipment very well. The 4 additional 0cc bodies with flying make the deck feel alot smoother overall.

Vault Skirge is about the best equipment wearer one can ask for, since it carries it in the air with lifelink. Once equipped, the lifelink can quickly swing games around. They can be cast for 1 mana (and almost always are), which is wonderful for this decks curve, and they also help enable Metalcraft and bigger Platings.

Mother of Runes is a key component. This deck lacks ways of interacting with its opponent with cards like Force of Will or Thoughtseize, and so it needs a way to provide protection to its creatures. There are numerous uses for her both offensively and defensively, and there are quite a few high profile creatures that you want to try and protect at all costs, such as Puresteel Paladin. At 1cc, she fits the curve beautifully. She's your strongest assest against aggro decks, and spot removal in general.

Stoneforge Mystic is seen in a variety of decks these days, and it should be no surprise to find her here, in a deck with so many equipment spells. Not only does she provide card advantage, she has a big toolbox of equipment's to choose from, she can help cheat on costs, and she has great synergy with Puresteel Paladin.

Puresteel Paladin has already been discussed in the Overview. Basically, this guy is insane.

Flayer Husk to this deck is like Arcbound Worker to Ravager/Disciple lists of old. He may not look impressive, but he's an important piece to the deck nonetheless. Cheap artifacts are important for achieving metalcraft early. He's a 1/1 body that can wear equipment. He's also an equipment himself, which increases the decks density of equipment spells for Puresteel. Against creature removal, the equipment sticks around to maintain Metalcraft and keep the artifact count up for Plating, and can be equipped to other creatures (like Skirge) later on. The equip cost is a bit steep for just +1/+1, but even that minor buff can be a big difference when attached to a Skirge, and the equip cost is free with a Puresteel anyway. This guy is pretty much mandatory for this deck to function properly.

Cranial Plating gives the deck its combo element, and is what truly separates it from other white weenie decks. The ability to give a flier huge +power gains immediately after equipping speeds up the clock of the deck dramatically. With as many artifacts and fliers that this deck has, it would be wrong to not run 4 of these bad boys.

The singleton equipments are all strong in different situations. Batterskull is a nice play when the deck has a Mother of Runes in play but has no fliers and is light on creatures. It's great against decks like Merfolk too, which have little to no removal to deal with the SFM even without Mother of Runes in play. SFM into Batterskull is alot faster than SFM into any other equipment (besides Flayer Husk) when Puresteel Paladin is not on the board, as it comes down already equipped. Jitte is fantastic, and probably the equipment spell I fetch the most, since it doesn't matter if I can protect SFM, doesn't matter if I have fliers, and doesn't matter if I don't have a bunch of artifacts in play. Even a Flayer Husk becomes a serious threat when attached to a Jitte. The three Swords of X and Y all have varying uses, depending on the situation.

Finally, Dispatch is this decks Swords to Plowshares.

Cards Not Included

If people ask why I'm not running certain cards, I will update this section with why those cards were not included. There is simply too much ground to cover here without some discussion first.

Matchup Analysis

Not any differently than traditional white weenie decks (before the advent of hatebears like Thalia), this deck can have a tough time with combo decks. Fast combo decks like Belcher are absolutely horrible; luckily the format is full of Force of Will to keep those decks in check. Tendrils decks can be rough too. If they go off very fast and don't fizzle, or this deck gets a very slow fair start, we lose. Unlike traditional white weenie decks, we can sometimes get explosive openings that are able to race them. Sometimes. The Show and Tell and High Tide matchups are much better though, since they tend to be a bit slower at winning, which gives us more time to race.

Control decks like Miracles can be a bit tough. We have no way to stop a Terminus, and it can be hard to not overcommit in this deck. We are also susceptible to a Counterbalance lock after the wipe the board. However, this deck has several tools that help this matchup greatly. The first of which, is the sheer number of equipment spells, especially SoLS. It can be fairly easy to recover from Terminus if there are equipment spells on the board, since even a topdecked Flayer Husk can turn into a serious threat. SoLS giving our creatures Pro White is pretty huge here, although it can still be bounced by Jace. Control matchups with Pernicious Deed are usually awful. The only way we beat Deed decks is to kill them before they can stabilize with Deed. This can happen often enough against some builds, but there are also some that are nearly impossible to beat. Luckily, there are not alot of Deed decks seeing widespread play in the format right now.

Aggro matchups that are light on spot removal are pretty good (like Maverick), since we can dominate the ground with Mother of Runes and the large amount of equipment, and then swing in the air to close the game out. Jitte and SoFI are fantastic against Goblins, Jitte and SoFaF are great against Maverick, etc. Our ability to sometimes just combo off with a huge flier carrying a Plating can kill opposing aggro decks before they even get a chance to do much. Against aggro decks like Zoo, this deck has a rough time. If we cannot stick a Mother of Runes early, they can usually keep our board clear long enough to kill us before we can get established. If we can manage to stabilize though, we will dominate them since we have a much stronger midrange aggro gameplan.

Aggro/control matchups are the best matchups for this deck due to the large threat density, equipment, and Mother of Runes. They try to play countermagic or discard or whatever to try and steal some tempo and outrace us, but we just keep dropping creature after creature and overwhelm them with superior card advantage and better creatures (once equipped).

My SB for Affinity consists of:

4x Relic of Progenitus
4x Duress
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Swords to Plowshares
2x Ancient Grudge

Relics: Graveyard-based decks, obviously
Duress: For combo/control
O-Ring: For big and fat things I don't want to see
STP: Random dudes I don't like
Grudges: For Null Rods, Pithing Needles, etc.

If someone could chime in and tell me my numbers are completely off? I'd be more than appreciative. :smile:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy

STP: Random dudes I don't like

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Why not Dispatch in place of STP? How often do you not have Metalcraft switched on?

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Originally Posted by Hanni

Esper Tezzerator

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Man, i LIKE that list. I love Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas and Baleful Strix, but they just seemed a little slow in my Affinity build. This slows it down just a hair more in favour of some broken interactions. Love it. Thanks :)

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Originally Posted by ween

Why not Dispatch in place of STP? How often do you not have Metalcraft switched on?

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The life-gain the opponent gets from STP is kind of irrelevant I find, since my robots hit for so much. But I think I'll switch them for some Dispatches soon, since they're in all the lists I see.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy

Relics: Graveyard-based decks, obviously
Duress: For combo/control
O-Ring: For big and fat things I don't want to see
STP: Random dudes I don't like
Grudges: For Null Rods, Pithing Needles, etc.

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Relic: I prefer Grafdigger's Cage as the more permanent solution, but Relic at least takes something with it if it's removed by anything other than Krosan Grip. Also, being a one-shot solution isn't so bad for Affinity as you can use the window of opportunity given by Relic to defeat the opponent, with the help from drawing a card off of Relic. I might try it over Cage. If graveyard decks are a concern, 4 Relics are a fine choice.

Duress: Cabal Therapy is just plain better. Just practice with the card if you're not making the correct blind calls. I wouldn't go past 3 Therapies.

STP/Dispatch: What are your relevant targets that you need post-board STP effects? 'Random dudes' is really too vague an explanation for anyone to understand why you're running STP effects when you already run O-Ring.

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Originally Posted by Shawon

Relic: I prefer Grafdigger's Cage as the more permanent solution, but Relic at least takes something with it if it's removed by anything other than Krosan Grip. Also, being a one-shot solution isn't so bad for Affinity as you can use the window of opportunity given by Relic to defeat the opponent, with the help from drawing a card off of Relic. I might try it over Cage. If graveyard decks are a concern, 4 Relics are a fine choice.

Duress: Cabal Therapy is just plain better. Just practice with the card if you're not making the correct blind calls. I wouldn't go past 3 Therapies.

STP/Dispatch: What are your relevant targets that you need post-board STP effects? 'Random dudes' is really too vague an explanation for anyone to understand why you're running STP effects when you already run O-Ring.

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For STP, I use them more for kind of a "catch-all" card, be it Bob, Goyf, etc.

Also, for Therapy, I kind of suck with it, lol. I like seeing what my opponent has in his hand, and actually being able to discard something, and not "hopefully" discard one.

Why would you be concerned with Bob? It's just a 2/1. It's not significant enough that you have to answer it post-board. If they draw cards, they're drawing one extra card per turn and losing life. That's way too slow against you and Dark Confidant costing them life makes your job of killing them easier.

I used to suck with Cabal Therapy too, but if you're going to play Legacy for a long time you might as well learn how to play with Therapy. It's the most skill-intensive card you can run in black that is legal in Legacy. You can read Caleb Durward's primer on the card. Duress is easier to play than Therapy, but Therapy has too many benefits you simply can't ignore. Having the opportunity to cast Therapy twice and hitting multiple copies of a card is worth the chance of getting the Therapy wrong on the first try. Affinity runs a large enough creature base that it's very affordable to flashback Therapy.

I just read the article, I never thought Therapy was that skill intensive... :O I might just need to run them.. You're right, Shawon..

I apologize that I have not done a write-up on my other 2 lists yet... I just haven't had the time. I will get to it by the end of the weekend I hope.

@ Mr. Froggy
As for your sideboard, it is impossible to help without your decklist. The sideboard is completely dependant on your maindeck. You cannot just toss in some good cards and call it a day. You have to cut maindeck spells for sideboard spells, so there is no point in tossing stuff in your sideboard without first determining why you need those cards in the first place, and what you would replace them with.

Maybe it is the right call to go with Dispatch in the sideboard... it depends on your list.

(I cannot think of any Affinity lists that would not be able to support Dispatch, so you should be using these instead of Swords, if you do need them)

Regarding Therapy... well if the card is in your sideboard and you are cutting maindeck spells for it for games 2 and 3, you should know what cards to name... otherwise, why even bring it in? I'm assuming your running some sort of traditional list. In that case, you should have tons of bodies that you don't care about sacrificing for the flashback, even if the first one is a dud.

Therapy is much better than Duress in the matchups you want to bring it in against... it's this decks version of Thoughtsieze + Hymn to Tourach all in one.

@ween
Thanks, I'm very happy with where my Esper list is at right now. I cannot tell you how much time I spent working on that list. You don't notice Strix slowing you down at all because you aren't running 3 mana 2/2's, vanilla 4/4's, or any of the other typical aggro beats. Strix is basically your Thoughtcasts 5-8 that leave behind a 1/1 flying deathtouch artifact body for Platings, a body for Drums, creature control and/or protection for Tezz, etc. Strix may seem weak on the surface, but it's easy to see how important they are for that list, even after just a few games. I would actually consider them the strongest piece of the "engine"; they just do so many things that the deck wants, and does them all at the same time... on a single card.

Strix is teh nutz :p

I'll go into more detail on the write-up.

My list is a traditional U/B TezzAffinity, but yeah.. I think I might cut my Duresses for some Therapies, everyone agrees they are amazing, and have been backing it up, can't argue with that. :)

Mr. Froggy, I also want to add that 2 Dispatch will fall short for two reasons, one is not having it when you need it and the other is that having a one-for-one isn't enough in really bad situations. Actually, three if you are running Ancient Den to accommodate Dispatch, which makes you vulnerable to Wasteland if your opponent knows you are relying on Dispatch. If Goyf and other green creatures are a big concern, I would run Perish as it's in black and it's CA.

I saw a couple SBs running Perish, I think I may have some lying around in my boxes. Switch the STPs for them? It's true that only killing one dude is not that helpful, usually. And I guess Perish is almost an auto-win vs. Elves?

Before you go tossing in Perish... how is your Maverick matchup? I haven't seen your list, so I cannot tell. If you are using Master of Etherium , Frogmite, and/or Ravager, then yea, you probably want a sweeper. If not, you probably don't even need Perish.

Since your sideboard doesn't have Needle, Revoker, or Cursed Totem, I would actually suggest Virtue's Ruin (again, if you even need it). They run more white-only creatures than they do green-only, and those also tend to have a much higher impact. Thalia +Wasteland slows down your Platings and Tezzeret; Mother of Runes shuts down your Masters more consistently than Scryb Ranger. Ruin still hits Qasali (if they haven't popped it), Teeg, and Knight. You aren't playing mana denial to care about the mana dorks, and Ooze is pretty slow.

Ruin is also useful in the Stoenblade matchup (among others). If you want the Perish for RUG or Elves or something, then I would at least suggest a split. But again, is Perish something you actually need in those matchups? Resolving a 3cc sorcery against RUG seems a bit dumb (or rather, a Time Walk for them). Therapy would be alot stronger against RUG, for example...

So yea, anyways, tl;dr version is that I'm not even sure if you need Perish for Maverick, and if you do, I'd suggest Virtue's Ruin instead.

I actually did read the entire post. :P

I'll test some more, and see what happens. I have a tournament this weekend, and I'm gonna use Affinity (I have Dredge built, too, but I don't think small tournaments want to deal with overpowered decks :P).

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I'll test some more, and see what happens. I have a tournament this weekend, and I'm gonna use Affinity (I have Dredge built, too, but I don't think small tournaments want to deal with overpowered decks :P).

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If you build Affinity right, it feels just as overpowered as Dredge does. Maybe not quite as a fast (a turn or two slower maybe), but just as overpowering. Both decks are easy to hate out, but require specific hate (graveyard vs artifact), so you can keep switching it up on them until they start running hate for both. :tongue:

Not a bad plan, hehe. :P

But I don't think my build is "optimal" but I like it.

Also, I run 4x Memnite and 2x Ornithopter, should it be the other way around?

I can't tell without seeing your list. If you look up at the 3 builds I posted, one runs just 4 Ornithopter, one runs just 4 Memnite, and one runs 4 of both. Gotta look at the entire list to be able to understand the context.