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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sigfig8
Think about it, the risk in buying 20 Mind Twists is low considering the upside if they are unbanned.
Mind Twist is really terrible. It's probably the worst card still banned from Legacy. I'd be super happy going into a tournament if I knew all of my opponents would be playing 4x Mind Twist. Factor in your time searching the internet for them and buying them and storing them and then (potentially) re-listing them and there isn't any money to be made on it.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Meekrab
Mind Twist is really terrible. It's probably the worst card still banned from Legacy. I'd be super happy going into a tournament if I knew all of my opponents would be playing 4x Mind Twist. Factor in your time searching the internet for them and buying them and storing them and then (potentially) re-listing them and there isn't any money to be made on it.
+1.What kind of deck would play even a 1-2x Twists? It's no use in Legacy.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kiblast
+1.What kind of deck would play even a 1-2x Twists? It's no use in Legacy.
What good Legcy decks run Grim Monolith? I have yet to see one have a strong showing. Yet, those would have been a tremendous investment. One thing we've learned from the recent unbannings is that a card will be over-hyped upon unbanning even if it's not good. The window may be narrow, but significant profits can be made here.
And if you're going to argue with me on the Grim Monolith point, consider Illusionary Mask as an alternative. I bought one for 70$ pre-unbanning from SCG and I sold it on ebay for 120$ after it was unbanned. And no one seemed to think Mask would be any good.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sigfig8
What good Legcy decks run Grim Monolith? I have yet to see one have a strong showing. Yet, those would have been a tremendous investment. One thing we've learned from the recent unbannings is that a card will be over-hyped upon unbanning even if it's not good. The window may be narrow, but significant profits can be made here.
And if you're going to argue with me on the Grim Monolith point, consider Illusionary Mask as an alternative. I bought one for 70$ pre-unbanning from SCG and I sold it on ebay for 120$ after it was unbanned. And no one seemed to think Mask would be any good.
Yeah, but Grim Monolith sees little play in UR sneak , Hive mind combo and MUD aggro. Mind Twist is not even CLOSE to be something playable. Why would you play it over Tourach? to be reasonably better than Tourach it's casting cost becomes 4. 4 cmc and doesnt affect the board like Wog, Jace, Moat or Humility ? sounds like garbage to me.
Mask is different. Mask costs a lot because it is an highly collectable card ( only ABU). Unbanning it only put it under the spotlights, it's something like an ''extra'' and everyone start wanting one or two, just in case it might become broken (I highly doubt this). You can see it retained its value pretty well, even if since the unbanning nobody played it competitively, still sits in the 100's $ for U and 200's $ for B.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kiblast
Yeah, but Grim Monolith sees little play in UR sneak , Hive mind combo and MUD aggro. Mind Twist is not even CLOSE to be something playable. Why would you play it over Tourach? to be reasonably better than Tourach it's casting cost becomes 4. 4 cmc and doesnt affect the board like Wog, Jace, Moat or Humility ? sounds like garbage to me.
Mask is different. Mask costs a lot because it is an highly collectable card ( only ABU). Unbanning it only put it under the spotlights, it's something like an ''extra'' and everyone start wanting one or two, just in case it might become broken (I highly doubt this). You can see it retained its value pretty well, even if since the unbanning nobody played it competitively, still sits in the 100's $ for U and 200's $ for B.
Even Hymn is argubly not broken in Legacy. It's insane on turns 1-3, but after that, its value starts decreasing when your opponent is down to 1-2 cards in hand. Topdecking Hymn mid-game makes a lot of decks playing black not want to run it, instead they opt for other black cards e.g. removal/Bobs/Thoughtseize. If Hymn is argubly not universally run in any decks playing black with a discard theme, then I cant see Mind Twist being played at all. I don't really want a 3cmc Hymn, nor a 4cmc discard spell that does nothing on turn 4, or requiring a Dark Ritual on turn 2 to discard 3 cards because I've lost 2 cards doing this in the process as well. Although Rit Rit Twist is quite disturbing, but I rather just Ritx2 AdN.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Metalwalker
Even Hymn is argubly not broken in Legacy. It's insane on turns 1-3, but after that, its value starts decreasing when your opponent is down to 1-2 cards in hand. Topdecking Hymn mid-game makes a lot of decks playing black not want to run it, instead they opt for other black cards e.g. removal/Bobs/Thoughtseize. If Hymn is argubly not universally run in any decks playing black with a discard theme, then I cant see Mind Twist being played at all. I don't really want a 3cmc Hymn, nor a 4cmc discard spell that does nothing on turn 4, or requiring a Dark Ritual on turn 2 to discard 3 cards because I've lost 2 cards doing this in the process as well. Although Rit Rit Twist is quite disturbing, but I rather just Ritx2 AdN.
I am not arguing your point that Mind Twist will be useless in Legacy. I'm simply saying that it'll get a good jolt to its value for the short run. Everyone will want their playset. Remember, Mind Twist right now is only like a 3$ card. I'm not talking it'll see 40$ mind you, more like 8$. That's still more than a 100% increase...
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Is it just me, or there is some speculation on Candelabra since the 20th?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
^^I bought two for 40 USD a piece about 7-8 months ago. That was about the going rate for NM from trusted sellers. I tried to buy a third 2 months ago and by then the going rate was 50 USD.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Spring Tide is sporting it in some builds.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Candelabra = EDH brokenness for Spikes, so there you go. I bought mine at $25-30 a year ago. It was in EX-/VG+ condition. I think the card is a little too narrow to be a staple in a potentially broken deck e.g. SotF. It won't be an engine universally used like SotF but I don't doubt that it might one day be a central piece to a broken deck. The card clearly has the potential to be broken. Being 1cmc also adds to that.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
SCG has the new phyrexian crusader going for 4 bucks and its about the same for prebuying on Ebay. Does it go up or down from here till the time the set comes out?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I think the crusader goes down from here, just because I think poison overall is a losing Proposition from wizards perspective. they (wizards)can not make creatures with poison to good because if they do games will be over to quickly
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Candelabra has already been in a broken deck. Remember what got Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Lotus Petal, Lion's eye Diamond, Vampiric Tutor, Tolarian Academy, Windfall, Time Spiral, Stroke of Genius, Dream Halls, Mind over Matter, and several others all restricted or banned at the same time.
This thing was insane. This is pretty close to the old list, though I could swear there was a Capsize in the list somewhere. Stupid thing had a singleton Strip Mine for the sole purpose of hitting opposing Tolarian Academies due to the way the Legend Rule worked back then during a time when you could play 4. Tells you something about the power level of the thing when Strip Mines 2-4 weren't good enough and I think even Time Walk got cut eventually for not being strong enough.
4 City of Brass
4 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
7 Solomoxen
4 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Windfall
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Timetwister
1 Wheel of Fortune
4 Force of Will
4 Time Spiral
4 Stroke of Genius
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mana Crypt
4 Mana Vault
2 Defense Grid
As for the Crusaders they will go down some, though that's not a horrible price. I figured $12 for a playset was pretty fair, that's what I grabbed them for. I'll use them in fun decks no matter what.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dahcmai
7 Solomoxen
Would you mind explaining exactly wtf that is?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Black Lotus, 5 moxen, Sol Ring.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Since when did lotus and sol ring count, or were even referred to, as moxen exactly?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snake Oil
Since when did lotus and sol ring count, or were even referred to, as moxen exactly?
Sol Ring, Lotus, Moxen.
SoLoMoxen.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snake Oil
Cool word play bro!
Awesome 3 posts, bro.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snake Oil
Since when did lotus and sol ring count, or were even referred to, as moxen exactly?
The term "Solomoxen" has been around as long as people have been writing about Type I, in case you were wondering.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lordofthepit
The term "Solomoxen" has been around as long as people have been writing about Type I, in case you were wondering.
Seriously. It's even sometimes 8 or 9 (or 13!) now since Chrome Mox was printed and Mana Crypt was recognized as hella good and restricted and everyone plays one in storm (and other) decks and there's Mox Opals to think about.
Also I'm appalled that dahcmai posted a decklist that uses City of Brass to cast all of THREE non-blue spells, instead of using Mystical Tutor and Brainstorm, though maybe Wheel of Fortune was a necessary evil back in the pre-storm combo days.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Mystical didn't really do much. You were going to get a draw 7 again with as many as there were so you just didn't have to search them up. Heh, if anything, Vampiric wasn't restricted. As for City of Brass, it's actually just oddly enough the best pick. The duals might leave you missing a color and you aren't going to get another land drop again, the deck also played Crop Rotation and Balance in the board. It was 5 color. It's not like you went past the first turn and cared about that life loss anyway. You got to just play away and not care about your life total ever. Brainstorm just sucks compared to Stroke, Wheel and Windfall in a deck that can power out ungodly amounts of mana pretty easily first turn. You were only going to see Force of Will and had to punch through a couple of those at worst. That was easy enough.
I'm surprised people haven't heard the term solomoxen before. I thought most people used to hit up the Mana Drain / Beyond Dominaria at least once in a while. I figured if anything, someone from SCG would've wrote with that term at least once lately.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dahcmai
I'm surprised people haven't heard the term solomoxen before.
Perhaps because it's still a horrible term, regardless of age. The unnecessary of grouping unlike items together for the sake of having a hip nerd slang term is a little ridiculous. The explanation only gives it that unwashed gamer geek vibe. Something I'd expect to hear from the dude that shows up to play week after week in the same faded anime shirt and sporting a bad peach fuzz mustache.
If that's what you do with your first five posts on this site, you can do that somewhere else. Ciao. - Bardo
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snake Oil
Perhaps because it's still a horrible term, regardless of age. The unnecessary of grouping unlike items together for the sake of having a hip nerd slang term is a little ridiculous. The explanation only gives it that unwashed gamer geek vibe. Something I'd expect to hear from the dude that shows up to play week after week in the same faded anime shirt and sporting a bad peach fuzz mustache.
So a quick way to say in an article or a discussion "your most broken artifact mana acceleration that is a core of your manabase" is a grrouping of unlike items that makes you feel nerdy.
You do know you're posting on a Magic: the Gathering forum, right?
Kettle, meet Pot. Pot, meet Kettle.
If you are going to waste posts ( a whoppin 4 at this point ) making semi-inflammatory comments about things you don't like, why don't you drag yourself back over to 4chan and fap to the furries. Because if these 4 posts are any indicator, we really won't be missing out on anything with your lack of posting here.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I always thought the most common word for 'that bunch of restricted broken artifact mana accelleration in the Vintage format' was 'the jewelry'. Whatever happened to that one?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Solomoxen is a term I've known for a while. I guess that since Vintage is on the outs and legacy is in means all the new blood haven't heard the term. Perhaps the people that don't know the term didn't follow themanadrain.com for the last ten years, or the dojo back when it was big. I know that I was a forum wallflower for well over a decade and that was several years ago. Anyway, the term is specific and well known.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sims
So a quick way to say in an article or a discussion "your most broken artifact mana acceleration that is a core of your manabase" is a grrouping of unlike items that makes you feel nerdy.
Exactly how often do vintage articles need to refer to those 7 specific artifacts? And how is Sol Ring one of the "most broken" when compared to a first turn crypt/vault?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sims
You do know you're posting on a Magic: the Gathering forum, right?
You know this is thread about the rising costs of card prices, not a brag about a once broken 12 year old deck that is now in a non-existent format, right?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
There should be a capsize somewhere in your academy list, dachmai. I know because I used to loop it with candelabrum to make infinite mana with Academy and 9 (!) other artifacts.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Yeah, there should be, but it's an old list. I don't have a copy of the one I had right as they got restricted to death.
Solomoxen wasn't my idea. lol It's a thing the Mana Drain guys came up with, I think. No clue really, but I liked that term. Much easier than typing out a set of cards that were in virtually every deck.
Anyway, back on subject. Is it just me or have foils took a serious dive lately? I managed to get a bunch of them I have been hunting for next to nothing lately. Picked up a Rebuild, Grim Lavamancers (Torment ones), Reverent Silence, Accumulated Knowledge playset, playset of Scourge Siege Gangs, and a few other choice goodies for pennies on the dollar just this week and was starting to wonder what's going on? I'm getting these too easy. Must be the depression of the pocketbooks from Christmas or something.
Though some other cards I can't seem to touch still so it's not everything, just mainly foils. There's a really cheap lot of foils going on right now that have a set of Torment Cabal Therapies in it. I was tempted, but I don't really need any of the rest of it and hate reselling that much stuff as singles. Hunt for foil Garruck lavamancer and you'll find it. Good deal for what it is, but you'll have to actually need a lot of it to make it worth it. Reselling that much would be a pain.
Anyone else get some oddly good deals lately?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
It's after Christmas, many people are in need of money to pay bills, and therefore good deals can be had by those with money to spend :P
-Matt
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I didn't want to start a thread on a question that has some relevancy here: Can anyone foresee LED being banned anytime soon? I was given a small stipend (what magic money basically is when you're married) for Christmas (100 bucks) and want either a playset of LEDs or Dark Confidants. I own damn near all of TES except LEDs and 1 or 2 duels. I own damn near all of Deadguy ale except for Dark Confidants. I've never played combo in legacy so am totally leaning toward the LEDs but would hate to buy them if they are suspected to banning. Thanks guys!
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oiolosse
I didn't want to start a thread on a question that has some relevancy here: Can anyone foresee LED being banned anytime soon? I was given a small stipend (what magic money basically is when you're married) for Christmas (100 bucks) and want either a playset of LEDs or Dark Confidants. I own damn near all of TES except LEDs and 1 or 2 duels. I own damn near all of Deadguy ale except for Dark Confidants. I've never played combo in legacy so am totally leaning toward the LEDs but would hate to buy them if they are suspected to banning. Thanks guys!
LEDs probably have the potential to be banned (at least more so than Dark Confidant), but I don't think it's very likely, so I wouldn't factor that into your decision.
LEDs are also much more valuable than Deadguy Ale, so if you can pick them both up for the same price, it should be easy. (Or if your wife is okay with you going for either set.)
Both see play in a variety of decks, but TES is a much stronger deck than Deadguy Ale, if you feel comfortable piloting combo. You may eventually want to pick up Confidants anyway if you do play Dark Ritual storm combo though.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
It's after Christmas, many people are in need of money to pay bills, and therefore good deals can be had by those with money to spend :P
-Matt
I think a lot of people are also spending X-Mas money on MTG cards. I expected to scoop up good deals so close to the holidays but nothing seems to be budging yet...
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I kind of doubt LED just for the sheer fact that not many people can even play TES worth a crap. It's odds of actually becoming a deck people complain enough about to garner notice is pretty low. It's definitely a good deck, but difficult to pilot correctly. I highly recommend it! : D
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dahcmai
I kind of doubt LED just for the sheer fact that not many people can even play TES worth a crap. It's odds of actually becoming a deck people complain enough about to garner notice is pretty low. It's definitely a good deck, but difficult to pilot correctly. I highly recommend it! : D
Thank you (and lord of the pit) for your response. Play testing with LED proxies feels like cheating so I can see the potential for a future banning. I think I will go ahead and grab the playset of those anyway. TES is difficult to play compared to most lists out there but the challenge makes it very fun! I won't be able to grab them till March anyway actually (campervan'ing New Zealand, yay!), so I'll keep my eye on future ban speculations.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dahcmai
Is it just me or have foils took a serious dive lately?
I would like to finish my set of foil Intuitions, but hey, 45$ each? I also wanted a singleton foil Grim Monolith for my EDH, but it's overpriced everywhere.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dontbiteitholmes
I think a lot of people are also spending X-Mas money on MTG cards. I expected to scoop up good deals so close to the holidays but nothing seems to be budging yet...
A long time ago (2002) I got a Lotus for way under the going rate on Christmas day. Just follow the "seasons" for what feeds PTQs and as the season flips you should find lower prices on last season only type cards. E.g. Jace isn't going down wether it is Extended or T2 season. But a card that is only used in T2 might experience a dip when going to extended.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jazzykat
A long time ago (2002) I got a Lotus for way under the going rate on Christmas day. Just follow the "seasons" for what feeds PTQs and as the season flips you should find lower prices on last season only type cards. E.g. Jace isn't going down wether it is Extended or T2 season. But a card that is only used in T2 might experience a dip when going to extended.
I think you can forget about getting any deals as far as Legacy this season. I think a combination of SCG coming up + X-Mas money for young ones + Survival banning shaking up format is creating a buying frenzy. Duals are retarded high right now, Seas are over 300 a playset again.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Any of you has a price idea of Holiday Special Cards? I just got Evil Presents ( Holiday 2008) for cheap (10 eur) and I'd like to know if I have to trust the 50$ they're selling it online....
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
is it me or are volcanic islands really low right now ?
