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Which is totally fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptactical
I like to play as many cards that deal splash damage to other decks. Thus, I play Extirpate for example which is useful against all combo decks and Miracles. Crypt's applications are rather limited.
Swarm is ok in a certain meta but not the best choice + it depends on your SB strategy against the decks Swarm is playable against.
I've seen that a lot of decklist are doing 5-0 on mtgo running 2x Dark Petition and Ad Nauseam. Don't you guys think that it's a bit risky playing Ad Nauseam with all these cards with cmc > 4? I've never liked Dark Petition, I think that 4 tutor effect is enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CabalTherapy
Hmm, Extirpate might be better I suppose. I'll try getting a copy of that.
As for Swarm, any better similar cards that you know of? What do you think about City of Solitude?
Oh, can I have a copy of your full list if possible? Thanks.
Well, I played 2 Petitions in my previous list. It gives you more chances of going off I suppose? I mean, I did a nice 5-1 with that list. On the other hand, there was a game where I revealed 2 Petitions of the Ad Nauseam and lost instantly, so I cut one Petition and run Empty in the main instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alakhai84
I used to run double-Petition with Ad Nauseam. I thought it was fine in non-countermagic contexts, but that the Petitions weren't great against blue decks. For a while, I kept the same amount of business but switched a Petition for a second Past in Flames, and there's a chance I'll go back to that configuration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alakhai84
You're right, though; Ad Nauseam is really risky with builds like that. I've found that it rarely causes me problems with only double-PiF and a Tendrils as my other ≥4-drops. With that said, I occasionally find myself having problems with only four tutors, and the deck plays more slowly.
I've got a question about the manabase. I've been considering going back to an extra business card (Empty the Warrens) in the maindeck, but one thing that's made me reluctant to do that is that it's a red card. Past in Flames is fine because it takes time to set it up, and we usually won't be hurting for red when we use it. But Empty needs to come down right away, and I feel like it's a bit of a tall order without LED and/or Petal. I'm wondering whether anyone's running a Badlands or a second Volcanic these days.
Swarm traditionally comes in against SnT based decks, Reanimator, and Miracles in some cases; I liked it as well against Canadian since they board out their removal and you can gamble to have a turn against their huge stack interaction lineup. There aren't any cards that you can change 1 to 1 with Swarm with since its application differs from other options such as Flusterstorm, Extirpate, Pyroblast, or simply said the strategy you are playing against a specific MU. I have tested City of Solitude and there were times where I liked to have it as a 1off in my SB (played one at GP Lille 2015 and so on) but at the moment it feels too clunky and unnecessary to have a cc3 enchantment that is first of all card disadvantage and then does little when CB is still active. It also relates to my plan against Miracles, which basically is doing nothing until the last big turn; sometimes it pays off, sometimes not. (It's always boring though.)Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptactical
I wouldn't recommend playing my list actually. It's based on my preferences and playstyle and is built to incorporate Grim Tutor which cannot be exchanged with another card without rebuilding the deck a bit.
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Ad Nauseam
2 Past in Flames
3 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp
1 Island
8 Fetch
My SB is subject to major changes when I play locals. At the moment, I think I have something like that:
3 Abript Decay (set in stone)
1 Krosan Grip (99% a 1off)
1 Flusterstorm (almost always)
1 Pyroblast (when I expect Miracles)
1 Extirpate (almost always)
1 Sensei's Divining Top (100% 1off)
2 Tendrils of Agony (100% atm)
1 Ancient Grudge (sometimes not)
1 Bayou (always)
1 Chain of Vapor (most likely is a real removal like Massacre or Pyroclasm)
1 Thoughtseize (7th discard spell, might be something else)
1 Hyrkul's Recall (only for some locals)
I don't think there's a need to further change the mana base? Since we have 4 Petals to make up the colour difference. The addition of another red card won't be too bad because going off with Empty the Warrens requires less mana(usually 6-7 spells are enough). At least that's what I've been experiencing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce
Thanks for the list! :smile: (And it's supposed to be Hurkyl's I think :laugh:)Quote:
Originally Posted by CabalTherapy
The list looks fine and solid in my opinion. I think I might be interested to test this list for the upcoming tournament(without the Grim tutor though).
I'd consider what CabalTherapy wrote about the Grim Tutor. I play a similar list (AdN in the SB) and would recommend giving yourself more time to become familiar with the play style before expecting results.Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptactical
Yup, this deck gives results only after a very long time of practice. Besides, swapping Grim for other tutors is always bad. Lists are built to take out the most from their cards and making random changes will do you no good.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottW
Guess that's true. I'll stick to the list I usually play then.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottW
Well, I can see why now. I tried to swap the Grim Tutor for a Petition earlier, didn't go well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spam
Though I really am considering the second PiF in the main.
In my opinion, two PiF main are super strong, would not leave home without.Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptactical
I wouldn't call GT crucial but is nice to have for MD EtW build
hasn't changed for me since 2012Quote:
Originally Posted by Spam
http://i.imgur.com/SyPRa9l.png
lololol man this deck is fun, turn oned this poor chap 2 games in a row.
my list is very very similar to the CabalTherapy's one (SB is quite different, but just for meta choices....).
Chrome mox is very good as fifth petal: being a singleton decreases the chance to topdeck it (usually we don't want this), but after a 0-mana nauseam it's easier to restart storming.
2 pif maindeck is fine, but due to nazi meta I have to free some space in the SB, moving EtW to maindeck. Not bad indeed, G1 sometimes empty is better than tendrils, I think actually the meta (in general, not only mine) doesn't have so many counters that require second pif; a fast empty, also a small one with 12-14 goblins, can win G1 before hate comes down.
Grim tutor is 10 times better than petition, I will run it when there'll be a BB version....... for the moment 1 tendrils, 1 empty, 1 pif, 1 nauseam, 4 IT is good.
Honestly, I personally don't believe a second red source is necessary just to support Empty, I feel petal, or even just leaving a fetch uncracked where possible leave you able to support it off just Volc with relative ease. There'll always be fringe scenarios where the second red source is relevant, I just don't think these are common enough. I feel,however, that the biggest difference to be made when running Empty main should be in the business breakdown. I'm starting to think that if you're running Empty main, a list more like Nevilshute's is a better option, ie no mainboard ad nauseam and extra tutors. The main reason being that the last thing you want to do, game one especially, is Ad Nauseam into Empty, just to get delvered or bolted to deathQuote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce
Red sources: It's not that uncommon actually. Having Volcanic, Badlands, and Sea in play is the ultimative Grixis mana base which cannot be destroyed by one Wasteland. It also mirrors the playstyle: I value black higher than blue in a lot of MUs or situations therefore fetching out Badlands as my second land. But yes, it comes handy with EtW main but is by all means not mandatory.Quote:
Originally Posted by fangzie
Business: That hasn't to be true. Running one EtW with AdN let's you have the option of creating a lot of guys preboard while still being able to pull of some draws in other games with AdN if necessary; meaning MU = you choose your weapon accordingly. That's why you don't get "delvered" or "bolted to death" because you can simply go for EtW with Tutor in those games (except the games where you fire off AdN from hand of course).
I recently started playing MTGO in addition to paper magic, and figured I'd use this opportunity to keep better track of my results. Here are my results through 100 games (EDIT: I've continued to update this with more data as I keep playing. The stats below are referring to the sheet for 2017-01-25 - 2017-02-11). I had a good start and tapered off recently (lost my last 6 matches, ugh). Still, it's been enjoyable to see what's working and what isn't.
Match W/L: 53-47
Game W/L: 129-115
Game 1 W/L: 62-38
Games 2/3 W/L: 67-77
For matchup data you should really look at the spreadsheet, but some relevant ones
Deck: G1 / G2/3 / Match
Miracles: 6-3 / 8-4 / 6-3
BUG Delver (all flavors): 7-5 / 6-13 / 4-8
Noble BUG: 1-4 / 0-6 / 0-5
For reference, this is my list and sideboard.
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Preordain
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Past in Flames
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Dark Petition
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
Sideboard:
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Dark Confidant
2 Dread of Night
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Krosan Grip
2 Massacre
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Xantid Swarm
----
General takeaways right now: My game 1 percentage is great, my postboard percentage is miserable. After around 50 games they were both positive, but the more I played the worse they got. My match win percentage was over 60% early on but things have gotten worse, and that ties in to facing a lot more Noble BUG and BUG Delver over that period of time. I'm very happy with my miracles matchup, 6-3 seems damn good for the best deck in the format that plays maindeck counterbalance. Couldn't be happier with my sideboard plan there. Unfortunately, with the popularity that Team America and Reid's new deck are having online, I'm finding it difficult to experience continued above-average success against the field. That may just mean it's still not the right time to play this deck, even with BR reanimator forced out because of bugs and Eldrazi on the downswing, but I'd be open to trying some other strategies for beating those decks. Losing carpet of flowers is a pretty big deal, but I'm just not comfortable playing it against bug decks anymore, and Empty the Warrens has been raced more times than I'd like if I can't get it up to like 14 goblins, which is difficult on the low resources they usually let you have.
I kind of want to try something ridiculous, like Abyssal Persecutor or Phyrexian Obliterator or Pack Rat, but nothing is really standing out as a good idea to me right now.
Anywho, figured the data dump might be interesting to some folks.
CabalTherapy and Fangzie, thanks for the responses about Badlands!
Incidentally, I'd run a Badlands in the main for a while when I still hadn't procured a Volcanic Island, and for the most part, it worked fine. I'm still not sure I want to make room for an Empty in my maindeck, but I'm beginning to think having a Badlands around might be worth it. I'm mostly wondering whether it'd really do anything a Swamp wouldn't; we'd still need a second (nonland) initial source for a T1, meaning that we'd probably have the means to produce red anyway unless we were using a Chrome Mox. Turn 2 is where things get a bit trickier, because we'd need to play a red land on either T1 or T2 to make goblins without using either Petal or LED (there's always Mox-plus-Past in Flames, but...). So I don't know what feels best, primarily because I don't know what to cut for both Empty and Badlands. But thanks a lot for the feedback!
Fangzie, I'm inclined to agree with CabalTherapy about running both Empty and Ad Nauseam. Sure, it's a risk that you'll flip Empty and take four with no benefit, but the same problem applies if you're running any number of extra tutors (especially Grim). Running more than four 4+ spells is always risky with Ad Nauseam, and that's actually why I cut back to just the Infernals, 2x Past in Flames, and Ad Nauseam. But it's risky regardless of which business cards you flip.
Regarding Grim, I agree that it's a pretty risky card in Ad Nauseam builds. I haven't tested it, and I don't really have any desire to, but I think it and Ad Nauseam effectively compete for a slot—they both cost life, they don't work well together, and it's an ordeal to double-cast either one off of Past in Flames. I personally think Petition's a lot better because of its utility in PiF loops and for setting up fast Tendrils kills, though I'm not deadset against Grim the way I used to be.
That's the misconception. DP is a combo piece pure and simple, where GT is an utility card that also works as business.
Enviado desde mi Moto G (4) mediante Tapatalk
I've also recently bought into MODO, I'm at 75 matches atm, will dive into it once I get to 100.... it's quite manually challenging for me, losing because you can't click ToA triggers under 10 sec and timing out is really frustrating... UBG seems to be the major force there, I'm 6-5 atm (+2-0 against decks with Shardless agent) I also face a lot of Stompy decks, not that many Miracles and I'm losing postboard more than usualy 4-4 atm, overall the Modo shuffler is a weird thing, I get ridiculous hands in both directions and actually achived my lifetime longest losing streak of 0-8, also awesome 0-3 against Burn guy who did not even have Eidolons... maybe it's because online compared to human the shuffling is more random but the game itself feels more and more random in general to me...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
Ahh yeah I forgot Shardless stuff when I was mentioning BUG. I'm 4-1 against Shardless and Aluren, but those are very different decks from Team America and Noble BUG. Much better for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshthedark