[Deck] The Rock

So I played my list against my Esper friend tonight, and I did decently well. The mix of Teeg, Sigarda, Thalia, and Charm were really stellar. These were my boarding plans:

-3 Cabal Therapy
-2 Thoughtseize
-3 Knight
-1 Maze

+2 Golgari Charm
+2 Gaddock Teeg
+3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
+2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad

Sorin was VERY good against them. The emblem was relevant for clocking them, and lifelink tokens were good. I almost got to steal a Jace, as well :P Obviously my friend had the one-of Perish every single game, plus Snapcastering it, so there were some losses that were definitely wins had that not happened. I brought out Knight because it was essentially a 3-mana green fatty that got chumped by tokens all day. I wanted cards that were more proactive or were hatepieces.

Tuesday will be all day testing against Jund and Sneak, but I won't be on until then due to final exams. Best of luck to anyone doing any tournaments this weekend!

-Matt

Double post.

Anyone play Junk at Milwaukee? Strasbourg?

-Matt

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Anyone play Junk at Milwaukee? Strasbourg?

-Matt

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Yes, I did play Junk in Milwaukee SCG. I went 54th... losing to sneak n show and ub landstill, or else i wouldve been top 8. Im tired not but i'll write a report tmrw when im not soo tired. I'll also mention things that went well, what failed, and what I feel i would like to improve on. There was another guy who had played a camera match but idk how well he did.

I think a "Punishing Maverick" made it top 8 in Strasburg (lost to RUG), but when I was watching it play the deck looked like Rock with a splash of red for Punishing Fires.

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Originally Posted by sdematt

So I played my list against my Esper friend tonight, and I did decently well. The mix of Teeg, Sigarda, Thalia, and Charm were really stellar. These were my boarding plans:

-3 Cabal Therapy
-2 Thoughtseize
-3 Knight
-1 Maze

+2 Golgari Charm
+2 Gaddock Teeg
+3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
+2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad

Sorin was VERY good against them. The emblem was relevant for clocking them, and lifelink tokens were good. I almost got to steal a Jace, as well :P Obviously my friend had the one-of Perish every single game, plus Snapcastering it, so there were some losses that were definitely wins had that not happened. I brought out Knight because it was essentially a 3-mana green fatty that got chumped by tokens all day. I wanted cards that were more proactive or were hatepieces.

Tuesday will be all day testing against Jund and Sneak, but I won't be on until then due to final exams. Best of luck to anyone doing any tournaments this weekend!

-Matt

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I have gone back and forth between different pw's, and I've come to the conclusion that if you're looking for a token producer, nothing is as efficient as lingering souls, regardless of extra abilities. SFM is what gives you the edge with equips, which is also good on it's own.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I have gone back and forth between different pw's, and I've come to the conclusion that if you're looking for a token producer, nothing is as efficient as lingering souls, regardless of extra abilities. SFM is what gives you the edge with equips, which is also good on it's own.

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you recall I'm playing 3 Souls main, right?

Also, I thought of a really bad pun considering the world situation. Lingering Seouls. Ouch.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

you recall I'm playing 3 Souls main, right?

Also, I thought of a really bad pun considering the world situation. Lingering Seouls. Ouch.

-Matt

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Oops...yes, I forgot. I also missed that Sorin was in the sideboard. Derp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Anyone play Junk at Milwaukee? Strasbourg?

-Matt

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I audibled last minute to Esperblade as I was terrified of combo after going 1-3 in the Legacy Challenge side event on Saturday. My Esperblade report is here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post717930) at post #2010 if you're interested in reading.

Junk still seems good, but the meta is becoming less and less friendly for it to compete. I'm not sure what can be done, but I've moved onto Esperblade and GW Maverick until Junk can make a comeback.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

I audibled last minute to Esperblade as I was terrified of combo after going 1-3 in the Legacy Challenge side event on Saturday. My Esperblade report is here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post717930) at post #2010 if you're interested in reading.

Junk still seems good, but the meta is becoming less and less friendly for it to compete. I'm not sure what can be done, but I've moved onto Esperblade and GW Maverick until Junk can make a comeback.

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I agree that with varying Combo decks and harder Control decks, midrange is an increasingly precarious position. I mean, me having to move to stuff even like Lingering Souls and Sigarda shows how much we have to shift.

Depending on how I feel, I may audible to BUG Landstill at SCG Seattle (just for fun as well, I play Junk at every other tournament). That deck (Landstill) is such a fucking beast. Sucks against Jund, but otherwise, a tank.

-Matt

What about going tempo? Dark Horizon-style. Surely we can adapt to this meta.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chatto

What about going tempo? Dark Horizon-style. Surely we can adapt to this meta.

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Quite possible, but it's just a matter of finding a happy medium that does in the Combo decks and can fight the control matchups.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

I audibled last minute to Esperblade as I was terrified of combo after going 1-3 in the Legacy Challenge side event on Saturday. My Esperblade report is here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post717930) at post #2010 if you're interested in reading.

Junk still seems good, but the meta is becoming less and less friendly for it to compete. I'm not sure what can be done, but I've moved onto Esperblade and GW Maverick until Junk can make a comeback.

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I completely DISAGREE with this statement. I feel like in a meta like this Junk thrives... There was me and another Junk player at SCG Milwaukee and we were battling on top all night. Although he played more of a tempo version compared to me, we both agreed that Junk was very well put. All my match-ups I had the upper hand. Although like I said, not trying to brag or act big, but Junk is a none blue aggro tempo control deck and without blue the deck can be manipulated and has to be played by a player who is skilled enough to to gain the upper hand. I played Jund where he's actually the proactive player but I switched it and remained proactive the whole game. Even against a deck like Mud i stayed proactive. Anyway, point is I believe Junk is very good in the meta. It has an even match-up against everything.


I'm still working on my report. post it later tonight.

Definitely post your list, sideboard, and matchups, please.

-Matt

Event: SCG Milwaukee

List:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shamen
3 Tarmorgoyf
3 Knight of Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Swords of Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Theraphy
3 Lingering Souls
2 Sensei's Divine Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Liliana of The Veil
1 Eladrami's Call
1 Maelstrom Pulse

1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Bayous
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wastelands
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith

SB:

4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Thalia
3 Fairie Macabre
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle


Match 1 vs Sneak n Show

G1: Im on the play and he keeps. He plays Volcanic and passes I play DRS. Next turn he plays tomb and drops Emrakul, i play Knight. I bounce his monster next turn after tapping for a top. With too much pressure on the board he scoops and we go to game 2.
G2: He's on the play again. He plays land and passes. On my turn, I thoughtseize and take the force. He plays land and passes again. I play thalia on my turn and begin to clock. Thalia does work and DRS begins doing work also. Thalia causes too much problems and he concedes.

Match 2 vs Esperblade

G1: This game lasts about 30 mins, eventually i scoop to go to game 2.
G2: I thoughtseize and play DRS. Then proceed to drop Goyf, Knight and begin to just smash and take the game.
G3: We go to time and draw.

Match 3 vs UR Delver

G1: He plays delver and begins to tempo me out, bolts my bobs and DRS's but then he starts to run out of gas and has no drop. I decay that dang delver and then play top and goyf. I drop knight and he scoops.
G2: DRS and Sigarda do the work against Lavamancer and Goblin guide. He concedes.

Match 4 vs Esperblade

I don't want to go into much detail bc it was soo back n forth. Basically, he topped deck his supreme verdict and every turn he has an answer. But our first game took literally 40 minutes, then he proceeds to be an asshole and slow play the shiet slow as heck, Im frustrated because if douchey he is I just scoop. He ends up playing against the mirror where he gets judged call for playing slow like a chump and get a warning and gets whooped and in round 6 he drops below me.

Match 5 vs Reanimator

G1: He goes nuts, forces my DRS and im wondering wth he's playing. Then he entombs griselbrand which he animates dead and also get 13 damage in. But then I decay the animate dead drop a knight and then he entombs an eleshnorn and reanimates it. But he knight lives as a 1/1 that eventually gets a karakas and bounces the norn. I then proceed to beat with the knight and lingering souls and win.

G2: He forces my DRS and then entombs an griselbrand. I draw a cabal theraphy and name reanimate but hes holding two exhumes, I flash it back by sacking my bob. Then I play a maze and play a DRS. Next turn I drop a goyf and exile the monster. He battles back by entombing and exhuming an blazing archon. But we both just pass n go bc maze is keeping the archon from swinging and i have no black mana to get his utilities. I eventually draw a scrub and begin to exile his instants. He counts all the utilites and then see's that I'm going to win. He scoops.

Match 6 vs MUD

This honestly isn't a hard match-up. I just get rid of all his stuff and lets just say thoughtseize was very poswerful taking sundering titan first game and a karn game two. He's stunned bc he didn't think a rock deck was playing.

Match 7 vs Jund

G1: Knight of Reliquary and Lingering Souls FOR THE WIN... Basically a grindy game with DRS all trying to out race each other and Goyfs shrinking.
G2: He has a nice board set-up. Sylvan Library, Relic of Progenitus. He keeps my board weak n clean but with small hits by knight, he's trying to play control as much as possible. I land Sigarda and end the game LMAO... She's a boss.

Match 8 vs Sneak Attack.

G1: he was at 3 but plays sneak attack next turn emarukal and wipes me clean off the face of magic feature match lol
G2: I punt this game around the fucking earth n back again because I couldn't draw crap after mulling to 4.

Match 9 vs UB Landstill

G1: I just stalled so I knew what he was playing...
G2: Junk rocks him out and he's too far behind.
G3: I decided instead of mulling into leyline of sanctity which basically would seal the deal to just play, i lose lo.

Opinions:

Let's begin with the good news.
Sigarda and Souls did a lot of work for me. period. I don't think Knights are worth cutting, I honestly am going to up my count to 4 again. One pulse main was enough.

Changes/ Bad news.

In a small meta, cabal therapy is good but in honesty, blind calling takes a crap load of work. So i'm going to fix my discard package. I also feel like cutting the goys for Loxodon Smiters. The match-up against esper is very freaking even, neck to neck. I think im going to play chains of mestopheles or chokes or something to make my match-up better, I also don't like teeg as much as thalia/thorn of amthyest so i'm going to cut those. The eldrami's call was a last minute tech for gsz but i think i'm going to cut it entirely bc there's not like a shiet load of control decks where those gsz's act like extra copies and it's wayy too slow. Jitte might also come from the side.

Soo many things but i think the deck is grat right now because the discard and ability to have white is super powerful. Against all the grindy decks it has some of the best removal. I don't usually post my lists so i'll just post minor tweaks that i make or i think is relevant.


Record: 5-3-1 topped 64 (54)

I've wanted 1-2 Jitte in my list for a while, but so far, it hasn't happened yet.

Why Top over Sylvan Library?

Ooze is also super good against Jund, suffice to say. Removing their DRS targets as well as Fires is quite greasy.

-Matt

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Originally Posted by sdematt

I've wanted 1-2 Jitte in my list for a while, but so far, it hasn't happened yet.

Why Top over Sylvan Library?

Ooze is also super good against Jund, suffice to say. Removing their DRS targets as well as Fires is quite greasy.

-Matt

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Haha well you can either go main or side. Jitte is good against ANT, TES, all your tribal decks, aggro match-ups... For junk i feel like one main or side depending on your build should always be a plus. The only thing that annoys me or has always annoyed me about equipment cards in general is the amount of mana spent to make use of it besides sfm + batterskull. Example: I have to time it right so that I can cast Jitte for 2 then another 2 to equip it and use it, this basically makes jitte a 4 mana card. Shiet... ain't going to lie though if you can keep it present, makes people sweat.

I picked Top over Sylvan Library simply because of card selection. Don't get me wrong, I originally ran 2 Libraries because the extra draw was insanely powerful but the control aspect of it is fairly linear. Me and Ian discussed this and at scg milwaukee the top paid off tremendously... Against Jund, he had a library while I had a top. He had discard while i had no card in my hand. I play top, spin top, draw from top, play tarmorgoyf. It kept him from hymn'ing me the whole game. Also the ability to look then fetch as a cantrip then top again and draw your answer is very very powerful. Ian mentioned that a meta filled with rug, bug, jund, esper.. card selection was important and having the ability to save your manipulator was an advantage. Sorry if my answer was long lol but i'm definitely sticking with Top right now. Note: Before i went, i tested a lot against Jund also and that was when i had a library, it was good. I switched after talking with Ian, didn't get the chance to test it but I played it and I it was better in that match-up against jund.

I'm definitely tuning right now, 2/2 split of goyf and ooze should be the right call. One felt like he wasn't ever used. 3 or 4 says im getting greedy for a utility/creature. 2 seems just right. Not over drawn and under drawn.

So i just did some extra tuning so i'll include it in the post:

Sigarda went to the side. She's a HOUSE!! but.... she's expensive and wasn't needed in every match-up (can be argued). I just rather play my first game more tempo and controlish and if I play an aggro deck or snt, then she can come in and prove her worth. Oh.., FYI... Jund cannot stop her. Let's just say my opponents that had to face her n her host or herons, never won lol I could see their eyes blow up when she appeared.

Jitte stayed in main. Lingering Souls stays main. Black spells in main: 4 thoughtseize, 2 Inquisition (which I kind of want to be duresses), 3 Liliana (Esper plays Jace, we play Liliana, in the story line he didn't get in her pants, she ruined whatever was in his pants and more LOL) she's very very good against blue decks especially esper and now that they run geist of saint traft.

Same removal package; 4 swords, 3 decays. Creatures 4 knights 4 bobs 3 DRS (debating if i should go back to 4) 2 goyf, 2 Ooze (I cut a DRS for another one of these, so still debating) Lands stay the same. hmm... one pulse is still awesome.


Sideboard:

4 leyline of sanctity is dope but i'm going to cut them because Thalia is huge against combo + discard so it's not like you need them.
3 Thalia stay. 3 Fairie Macarbe, which i teched against decks like tinfins and that dumb undercity deck. But I rather have extirpate bc it hits opposing lingering souls, not just one but all of them lol and if i can discard a sneak attack then it rids them, also removes all copies of punishing fires. Uncounterable except by counter balance or chalice.
1 Elspeth bc she's amazing and annoying for opponents, 1 Sigarda.
2 Pernicious Deed, I didn't have them to begin with and honestly didn't like it but it does what it suppose to do in those hard times.

This leaves me to replace those 4 slots. So far thinking about golgari charms, Oblivion rings, pithing needles, extra discard, extra removal, Blind Obedience's (which i think is very very dope), celestial purge or krosan grips.... so still brewing.

feel free to ask me, advise and critique me, there's always room for improvement.

If you do test Obedience, I'd recommend that you switch to all tops. It may seem off and counter intuitive to what everyone enjoys regarding Library but the ability to 2-mana burn opponent shouldn't be overlooked. It's very good to have a burn spell vs the control decks and your decays should be able to deal with any Counterbalance which comes into play.

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Originally Posted by Petree

Esper plays Jace, we play Liliana, in the story line he didn't get in her pants, she ruined whatever was in his pants and more LOL

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HAHAHA

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4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shamen
3 Tarmorgoyf
3 Knight of Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Swords of Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Theraphy
3 Lingering Souls
2 Sensei's Divine Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Liliana of The Veil
1 Eladrami's Call
1 Maelstrom Pulse

1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Bayous
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wastelands
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith

SB:

4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Thalia
3 Fairie Macabre
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle

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Now, I like this list, but I think having Sigarda with no way to search for her is a bit meh.

Also, I'm wondering how people are boarding for Esper? Considering my list:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shamen
3 Tarmorgoyf
3 Knight of Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Scavenging Ooze

3 Swords of Plowshares
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Theraphy
3 Lingering Souls
3 Sylvan Library
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Maelstrom Pulse

1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Bayous
2 Scrubland
2 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
3 Wastelands
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor

SB:

3 Thalia
2 Deed
2 Sorin
2 Golgari Charm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Humility
2 Gaddock Teeg

Turns out our lists differ by VERY little, which is probably a good thing :P I'm just curious how you're finding 4 Swords 3 Decay vs. 3 Swords 4 Decay. I miss having the 4th Swords, but Decay has been great considering it's pretty great against Tempo as well.

So for boarding against Esper, I've been basically just removing 3 Cabal Therapy, 2 Thoughtseize, 3 Knight of the Reliquary, 1 Maze of Ith for 3 Thalia, 2 Sorin, 2 Gaddock Teeg, 2 Golgari Charm It may seem weird to board Knights out, but with the possibility of Perish, Feast and Famine, and possibly even Rest in Peace, he can be a 3-mana do not a lot. He gets chumped all day long by tokens is partly the problem. Sorin is also an answer to an active Jace (or, if they lay down a Jace into your Sorin, you become extremely okay with that Jace).

Gaddock Teeg and Thalia are the key cards in this matchup. Charm is great for blowing them out if they're ahead on tokens, or surviving a Supreme Verdict, or destroying a Rest in Peace if possible. The reason I'm boarding out discard is that the games tend to go long because the discard may be good in the early game, but becomes a bad draw later on if you lose your manipulation/don't draw it.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

I've wanted 1-2 Jitte in my list for a while, but so far, it hasn't happened yet.

-Matt

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I switched over from GSZ to SFM for this reason, to shore up against tribals in the main deck. It allows you to avoid clogging your sideboard with those sorts of silver bullets. Jitte is also fantastic against pretty much any dork-based deck (maverick, death&taxes, esper stone blade, team Italia, Deadguy ale are a few.) it gives you an edge against other Lingering souls' decks as well, because the open space from not needing jitte in the board makes room for persecution or golgari charm. You can also justify a one-of Darkblast fairly easily this way in the board.

My philosophy with this deck has stayed true since the beginning, even if the deck has changed drastically: hammer on the fair decks with a tight main deck and board into intense combo hate. I can't say that this sums up rock/junk entirely, but this strategy has been successful in several local events. I can board in anywhere from 7-10 cards for the different combo decks and leave the last 5 or so to tweak against blue decks, or just some general broad options like vindicate, loam, and deeds.

Long story short: bite the bullet and just get a jitte into the maindeck somehow.