[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

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Originally Posted by HammafistRoob

Yeah I totally agree with that. It isn't very rare to open one landers with Ponder and no red spells though. Would you recommend moving back towards Silence if your meta is heavy in Miracles and AnT? I know that AnT is favorable for either build, but Silence helps push the matchup heavily into our favor. I hate being turn 1'd when I'm playing TES, and I'm also thinking about Bribery since two Reanimator decks have been showing up lately. Yes this meta is pretty miserable for storm, but you can't get better unless you learn to fight through the tough matchups right?

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This.

I haven't missed to run Silence until I played against Miracles. Playing top4 in a small local tourney, I discarted all counters the guy had in his hand, but couldn't combo him because he was hidding a fow and a blue card with his two Sensei's Divining Tops.

About the cabal ritual lastest issues, I only can say that I loved them, specially now that we're running an infernal tutor at sideboard. I feel that it would be better to run the full infernal playset at main, if we finally remove those rituals.

I think the Infernal is best kept in the side as I've used it a lot as a wish target. Not even necessarily for Ad Nauseam but for Empty too for the increased storm count. I sided out Cabal Ritual so often, I don't believe that I'll notice they're gone.

I updated the decklist in the opening post, no I didn't update the other content. It'll be done at some point.

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Originally Posted by HammafistRoob

Yeah I totally agree with that. It isn't very rare to open one landers with Ponder and no red spells though. Would you recommend moving back towards Silence if your meta is heavy in Miracles and AnT? I know that AnT is favorable for either build, but Silence helps push the matchup heavily into our favor. I hate being turn 1'd when I'm playing TES, and I'm also thinking about Bribery since two Reanimator decks have been showing up lately. Yes this meta is pretty miserable for storm, but you can't get better unless you learn to fight through the tough matchups right?

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I know about the issue of SDT + floated counterspell as a backbreaker and like a possible return of pure Tempo, a certain density of Miracles would make me consider to return to the Silences. ANT is a bit tricky as skilled pilots won't walk into Silence here with a hasted combo-attempt, but sling Discard until you are bleeded out of business/mana and drag out the game to the point where they can overwhelm you with the power of Cabal Ritual and a random discard-effect to strip Silence. Testing tough matchups gives you an idea about the Limits of the deck and yourself as a player. I like your motivation shown :)

Yeah they won't likely walk into Silence, but it can be hidden on top with a Ponder/Brainstorm waiting to be Brainstormed back up at an opportune time. Also, having Therapy and Silence makes the Goblin plan better against them, and even Silence walking is a nice option to have here as it protects your hand for a full turn which can often be enough time for us to get there. I actually made it known after our match that I wasn't playing Silence at the moment due to more experienced TES players foregoing white altogether. So it could be a very real possibility that I just get him with it, but I kinda hate the number of white sources that were in the older lists.

I'm not planning on bringing this to any larger events, at least for a while. I just don't have to confidence in the deck/my skill piloting it just yet. Also in tournaments with 7+ rounds I like having more flexibility in deck building/ card choices. We will see how I feel about it in two weeks as I have a nice sized tournament coming up. Thanks for your input Lemnear

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Originally Posted by HammafistRoob

Yeah they won't likely walk into Silence, but it can be hidden on top with a Ponder/Brainstorm waiting to be Brainstormed back up at an opportune time. Also, having Therapy and Silence makes the Goblin plan better against them, and even Silence walking is a nice option to have here as it protects your hand for a full turn which can often be enough time for us to get there. I actually made it known after our match that I wasn't playing Silence at the moment due to more experienced TES players foregoing white altogether. So it could be a very real possibility that I just get him with it, but I kinda hate the number of white sources that were in the older lists.

I'm not planning on bringing this to any larger events, at least for a while. I just don't have to confidence in the deck/my skill piloting it just yet. Also in tournaments with 7+ rounds I like having more flexibility in deck building/ card choices. We will see how I feel about it in two weeks as I have a nice sized tournament coming up. Thanks for your input Lemnear

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The whole "hide Silence on top and Brainstorm into it" is a bit artificial for my taste and could cause problems itself as you are possibly "wasting" your cantrips for this setup instead of using them to optimize your hand :/

During Bazaar of Moxen in November 2013, Silence-walking Goblins was more of a lackluster as you not only need white mana to do this (often requires another initial mana Source) but also can be responded to by casting Terminus, Golgari Charm or Zealous Persecution! The whole UBW stuff (Miracles, Deathblade) with counter+discard+hatebear was the reason I started to question Silence in the first place.

I'm looking forward to you sharing your experiences with us and participating in development :)

The updated list looks pretty close to what I've been running for a few weeks -Duress +Infernal Tutor in the MD. I really like slightly higher consistency on the G1 and then do end up typically siding out an Infernal for second and third games for more options vs consistency while giving a freebie side out for whatever hate/anti-hate/protection that I need to side in.

I was never a fan of the Cabal Ritual in this storm deck, but I really like where the deck is sitting right now. Feels like its at or near it's all time best (:
Thanks for all the hard work/suggestions/testing guys, you are incredible.

i really liked the new list, in a miracle heavy meta. (which, oddly enough, there are no miracles in my meta. lots mono blacks (pox/midrange))

considering my meta, the cabal rituals have been really awesome, and I am not moving them anytime soon of my 75. they make the past in flames even better, and put up a fight in the d&t MU .

I would like to test this new build against miracles, since i never actually won against this MU, but Ive been really glad with the Cabal ritual build. (although i miss the silences =X)

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Originally Posted by seilaquem

considering my meta, the cabal rituals have been really awesome, and I am not moving them anytime soon of my 75. they make the past in flames even better, and put up a fight in the d&t MU

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Geeeez... good luck trying to cast thre.shold Cabal Rituals against Thalia, Canonist, Wasteland and Port. I have the impression, I repeat myself every 2 pages about how to tackle the matchup

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Geeeez... good luck trying to cast thre.shold Cabal Rituals against Thalia, Canonist, Wasteland and Port. I have the impression, I repeat myself every 2 pages about how to tackle the matchup

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i know the best way is to go fast kill T2.

however, I've faced a lot T2 thalia through protection (discard, no thalia, draw thalia =/)

but the cabal rituals (after quite some time), helped me to AN even through thalias. they still are +2 sources w/ thalia in play.

or should I try to aggressively mull to 4? =/ (i´ve been really unlucky on the last couple of matches i played)

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Originally Posted by HammafistRoob

Yeah they won't likely walk into Silence, but it can be hidden on top with a Ponder/Brainstorm waiting to be Brainstormed back up at an opportune time. Also, having Therapy and Silence makes the Goblin plan better against them, and even Silence walking is a nice option to have here as it protects your hand for a full turn which can often be enough time for us to get there. I actually made it known after our match that I wasn't playing Silence at the moment due to more experienced TES players foregoing white altogether. So it could be a very real possibility that I just get him with it, but I kinda hate the number of white sources that were in the older lists.

I'm not planning on bringing this to any larger events, at least for a while. I just don't have to confidence in the deck/my skill piloting it just yet. Also in tournaments with 7+ rounds I like having more flexibility in deck building/ card choices. We will see how I feel about it in two weeks as I have a nice sized tournament coming up. Thanks for your input Lemnear

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I really dont think that for example 3 silence instead of 3 duress is better vs a miracles decks because of floating counter under senseis, discard has the benefit of beeing faster and the possibility of even discard the senseis or c.b. I've made multiples like discard, take out even FoW, next turn win having c.b. in hand or just take out c.b. and later kill with storm and multiple cards in hand. these kind of games is what you need on first games, because c.b. is a turn 2.

talking now about side, I see 3 A.D. as a mínimum if you want to battle a 2nd game OtDraw... because sometimes you will use A.D. to force the senseis and sometimes for c.b. and sometimes for m.mage, etc, having in conjunction with discard the perfect puzzle.

@Bryant:
how would you side vs miracles with your list?

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Originally Posted by seilaquem

i know the best way is to go fast kill T2.

however, I've faced a lot T2 thalia through protection (discard, no thalia, draw thalia =/)

but the cabal rituals (after quite some time), helped me to AN even through thalias. they still are +2 sources w/ thalia in play.

or should I try to aggressively mull to 4? =/ (i´ve been really unlucky on the last couple of matches i played)

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The Problem is getting Cabal Rituals initial mana through all the denial which is the near impossible task; not to talk about stuff like Canonist or the like in addition to the manadenial.

The best plan B, if you are unable to combo Turn 1/2 is, to Wish for Massacre and slowroll. Massacre is not affected by canonist and can be cast off a single U.Sea even with Thalia on the table and GETS RID of all hatebears instead of just netting 2 mana for an initial cost of 3.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

The Problem is getting Cabal Rituals initial mana through all the denial which is the near impossible task; not to talk about stuff like Canonist or the like in addition to the manadenial.

The best plan B, if you are unable to combo Turn 1/2 is, to Wish for Massacre and slowroll. Massacre is not affected by canonist and can be cast off a single U.Sea even with Thalia on the table and GETS RID of all hatebears instead of just netting 2 mana for an initial cost of 3.

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Speaking of Massacre, does everyone think we still need Grapeshot now that we have a better way to kill hatebears? I have yet to wish for Grapeshot except for the lolz of a 20 storm kill. I understand that it can be used to kill off a weakened opponent after they have dealt with our Goblins, or to tank out an annoying Liliana. I'm just not sure it's high impact enough at this point, but it could also just be my meta where I haven't seen a Teeg yet, which is a big pull in favor of the Grapeshot.

I'm under the impression that we are going down to 0 Chain of Vapor to play the new sorcery speed one, is everyone on board with this? I actually lost a game against Marit Lage when my opponent had only one Daze in hand and one land in play, while I had 4 mana and Burning Wish. It was kind disheartening knowing that the new card was about to come out.

EDIT- Since Bryant is going to be moving the Trop into the main, is it possible that testing out a single Decay in the main is a good idea? It might not be needed, but I've found losing game 1's to a Counterbalance or Thalia is pretty disastrous since we will have to face down more hate in the next 2 games. Just a thought that might be worth testing, and it frees up an extra board slot as an added bonus.

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Originally Posted by Niggurath

This.

I haven't missed to run Silence until I played against Miracles. Playing top4 in a small local tourney, I discarted all counters the guy had in his hand, but couldn't combo him because he was hidding a fow and a blue card with his two Sensei's Divining Tops.

About the cabal ritual lastest issues, I only can say that I loved them, specially now that we're running an infernal tutor at sideboard. I feel that it would be better to run the full infernal playset at main, if we finally remove those rituals.

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Just wanted to point out that if your opponent has two tops in play, he can't tap both of them to draw two cards. The ability on one has to be fully resolved first (returning Top to the deck) before the second Top can draw a card.

EDIT: Derp.

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Originally Posted by HammafistRoob

Speaking of Massacre, does everyone think we still need Grapeshot now that we have a better way to kill hatebears? I have yet to wish for Grapeshot except for the lolz of a 20 storm kill. I understand that it can be used to kill off a weakened opponent after they have dealt with our Goblins, or to tank out an annoying Liliana. I'm just not sure it's high impact enough at this point, but it could also just be my meta where I haven't seen a Teeg yet, which is a big pull in favor of the Grapeshot.

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I had a close game last week against UR Delver where I could only land 8 goblins on turn one through Daze/FoW. He removed two goblins and was sitting at 9 life behind two flipped Delvers. I barely had enough mana to Grapeshot both creatures and swing for lethal. Would not remove. (=

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Originally Posted by saur

Just wanted to point out that if your opponent has two tops in play, he can't tap both of them to draw two cards. The ability on one has to be fully resolved first (returning Top to the deck) before the second Top can draw a card.

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draw with one, spin, draw with the other

edit: mained decay sounds pretty lackluster as it dilutes actual combos and a miser decay would probably hurt as main opening hands/topdecks as it would help the relevant matchups where you happen to open it

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Originally Posted by saur

Just wanted to point out that if your opponent has two tops in play, he can't tap both of them to draw two cards. The ability on one has to be fully resolved first (returning Top to the deck) before the second Top can draw a card.

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Sure you can. You put the first tap draw on the stack, followed by a look activation, followed by another draw activation. So basically you draw a card and the first Top goes on top, then you rearrange the top 3 and then the other draw activation resolves.

EDIT-Ninja'd again :'(

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Originally Posted by HammafistRoob

Speaking of Massacre, does everyone think we still need Grapeshot now that we have a better way to kill hatebears? I have yet to wish for Grapeshot except for the lolz of a 20 storm kill. I understand that it can be used to kill off a weakened opponent after they have dealt with our Goblins, or to tank out an annoying Liliana. I'm just not sure it's high impact enough at this point, but it could also just be my meta where I haven't seen a Teeg yet, which is a big pull in favor of the Grapeshot.

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guess you listed the most important ones. I may add:
- not having an U.Sea in play and Massacre being too expensive to hardcast (also includes Magus of the Moon)
- having to remove creatures without your opponent having a Plains (for like buying you some time against double Delver starts)
- having to remove a 3-thoughness creature (Painter of servant)

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I'm under the impression that we are going down to 0 Chain of Vapor to play the new sorcery speed one, is everyone on board with this? I actually lost a game against Marit Lage when my opponent had only one Daze in hand and one land in play, while I had 4 mana and Burning Wish. It was kind disheartening knowing that the new card was about to come out.

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I can only hope people add this gem to their sideboard. No more surprising game 1 hate you cannot handle; no more speculative boarding of CoV.

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EDIT- Since Bryant is going to be moving the Trop into the main, is it possible that testing out a single Decay in the main is a good idea? It might not be needed, but I've found losing game 1's to a Counterbalance or Thalia is pretty disastrous since we will have to face down more hate in the next 2 games. Just a thought that might be worth testing, and it frees up an extra board slot as an added bonus.

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[I fear, the Miracles matchups aside, you'll curse yourself every time you draw it :/

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I have a lot of CB in my meta, and I tried going with main deck AD out of frustration. It is not good.

Made more edits to the opening post. A quick sideboard update, take it with a grain of salt. It's mostly similar, just swapping some stuff here and there.

The problem with Miracles is that if it's not one card that gets you then it's the other, between Force of Will, Counterspell, Vendilion Clique, Counterbalance, Sensei's Divining Top and hate bears you just have to Thoughtseize and force them to have the Sensei's Divining Top/counter lock, because as soon as you replace Thoughtseize with Silence you'll just start bitching about Vendilion Clique, Counterbalance and hate bears again and those cards are going to more consistently lock you out of the game than Sensei's Divining Top is. It's just that you "feel" as tho' you can actually do something about Vendilion Clique, Counterbalance and hate bears when you have answers in your deck to them and you can't do anything vs Sensei's Divining Top in comparison, but you're probably still just as dead if they do hit.

Edit: I'm still a bit surprised people are cutting Bribery and Diminishing Returns, are Reanimator and Jund not decks in your meta or what?

I really haven't liked the conditional SB cards like Abrupt Decay, the second Pyroblast and even Xantid Swarm lately, one of the cards I've been going back to is Inquisition of Kozilek as these days not hitting Force of Will seems like the least of our worries as far as disruption's short commings go.

After cutting Green, I've been thinking about heading towards just the fetch/dual manabase at this point of 2 Underground Sea, 2 Volcanic Island and X fetchlands, being able to protect the manabase from Wasteland and shuffle after Brainstorm is just a really solid boon for TES

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

The problem with Miracles is that if it's not one card that gets you then it's the other, between Force of Will, Counterspell, Vendilion Clique, Counterbalance, Sensei's Divining Top and hate bears you just have to Thoughtseize and force them to have the Sensei's Divining Top/counter lock, because as soon as you replace Thoughtseize with Silence you'll just start bitching about Vendilion Clique, Counterbalance and hate bears again and those cards are going to more consistently lock you out of the game than Sensei's Divining Top is. It's just that you "feel" as tho' you can actually do something about Vendilion Clique, Counterbalance and hate bears when you have answers in your deck to them and you can't do anything vs Sensei's Divining Top in comparison, but you're probably still just as dead if they do hit.

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With this being said: how off is it to think about Pithing Needle in the SB to block random Fetches, Grindstones, DRS, Sneak Attack, Griselbrand, Wasteland, SFM, Sensei's Divining Top, Engineered Explosives, etc.?