[DTB] Vial Goblins

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09-10-2010, 01:18 PM
ScatmanX

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nelis

I know at least two players will play Vedalken Shackles so I'm thinking of putting in a Tuktuk Scrapper.
Should I play a 4th Pyrokinesis since it seems around half of the players play aggro?
That leaves 3 slots open. What to put in?

No need for TukTuk. Use Pithing Needle. 2 or 3, and bring them in against Survival, CB/Top, Rock, and Vedalken Shackles. Maybe Merfolk.
4th Knesis is nice. Instigator side is not needed. Run ReB if there's lot of blue.
And I think that Faerie Macabre is better than Relic against those decks...
Also, if you're scared of Progenitus, run Anarchy. It is also white! =D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nidd

If 50% of the Meta is Aggro, Lightning Crafter seems awesome.

Also, in a build with 8 colorless lands, Insitgator seems to be bad. I guess that's the slot for Crafter.
Maybe you can find some slots for Stingscourgers? I've never been disappointed by them.

The deck has 17 Mountains. Usually, they have less, so no worries about Instigator.
Right on Lightning Crafter and Scourgers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neuad

How do you feel about Harmonic Convergence

http://magiccards.info/ul/en/103.html

instead of Back to Nature vs Enchantress? It gets around Karmic Justice which is my huge thing. . .

Not needed. Also, that card is only good in that MU, while Grip or Nature's Claim are good in several other MU's.
Goblins should beat Enchantress anyway.
09-10-2010, 04:21 PM
antonbystedt

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScatmanX

Not needed. Also, that card is only good in that MU, while Grip or Nature's Claim are good in several other MU's.
Goblins should beat Enchantress anyway.

What? How do you reason now? You can't beat Confidement pre sideboard, and after sideboard they got it protected, + they have Elephant grass and stuff to endure the early turns to buy time so they can lock the game down.
09-10-2010, 05:10 PM
Neuad

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

Plus enchantress is a huge part of my meta. Its like 3 to 4 a week. And they all run karmic justice plus moat, and all the other.trash they have to kick me.
09-10-2010, 05:41 PM
Nelis

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScatmanX

No need for TukTuk. Use Pithing Needle. 2 or 3, and bring them in against Survival, CB/Top, Rock, and Vedalken Shackles. Maybe Merfolk.
4th Knesis is nice. Instigator side is not needed. Run ReB if there's lot of blue.
And I think that Faerie Macabre is better than Relic against those decks...
Also, if you're scared of Progenitus, run Anarchy. It is also white! =D

The problem is that its hard to push needle through when theres an active countertop on the board. But I will definitely run a few Pithing Needles.
I want to diversify my graveyard hate that's why I run different hate pieces. I like relic as its permanent based graveyard removal.
I haven't decided yet if I am going to fear Progenitus. When looking at the other matchups its hard to argue for Anarchy. Its only other use might be against D&T Rock.
I don't like Lightning Crafter so I'm going to skip on that suggestion.

For now it will be:
4 Pyrokinesis
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Pithing Needle
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Gempalm Instigator
1 open slot

Thanx so far.
09-10-2010, 09:24 PM
TheSleeper

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

What version (mono, red, black) would be best equipped to beat the following: merfolk, bant (progenitus + CT aggro), & UG madness? Is mono good enough along with Pyrokineses/REB out of the board?
09-11-2010, 10:53 AM
ScatmanX

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonbystedt

What? How do you reason now? You can't beat Confidement pre sideboard, and after sideboard they got it protected, + they have Elephant grass and stuff to endure the early turns to buy time so they can lock the game down.

From my experience, people side out Karmic Justice against goblins.
Well, I guess that, if you face an Enchantress deck in a weekly basis, you should prepare for it, so running Harmonic Convergence is fine. I just wouldn't do it in a unknown meta.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSleeper

What version (mono, red, black) would be best equipped to beat the following: merfolk, bant (progenitus + CT aggro), & UG madness? Is mono good enough along with Pyrokineses/REB out of the board?

I'd go for Rb. Merfolk is better with monored, but you have access to Perish against both Bant and Madness, and Extirpate, that is a real killer against Madness.
09-11-2010, 12:18 PM
Neuad

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

Yeah my meta's enchantresses ethier side it in, or just run it mainboard.
09-12-2010, 09:25 AM
falln

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

Hi, I'm not new to legacy but I'm new to the goblin warwagon and I figured I'd get some pointers on my list and sideboard from the people who've been playing it more. I chose to go with a black splash because I have the cards available to me and I really like the idea of running [card]Wort, Boggart Auntie[/card].

Creatures 31
4 Goblin Warchief
2 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Mogg War Marshal
1 Stingscourger
2 Wort, Boggart Auntie

Spells 2
2 Warren Weirding

Artifact 4
4 Aether Vial

Land 23
6 mountain
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Rishadan Port
3 Wasteland
2 Auntie's Hovel

Sideboard 15
4 Pyrokinesis
3 Perish
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Earwig Squad
1 Goblin Tinkerer

I'm considering the some of the following changes

Option 1
-2 Mogg War Marshal
+1 Siege - Gang Commander
+1 Goblin Chieftain

Option 2 (i miss my chieftains option)
-2 Mogg War Marshal
-1 Goblin Warchief
+2 Goblin Chieftain
+1 Siege-gang commander

Option 3 would take alot more tweaking but I'm considering go heavy Matron toolbox by just running core gobos as 4 ofs then running a bunch of utility one as 1 ofs examples would be like shapshooter, tinkerer, and earwig squad. This is probably the route I'm considering the most and I was wondering if anyone had any experience with that kind of variant.

Let me know and thanks for the help.
09-12-2010, 11:06 AM
JonBarber

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

You ALWAYS want at least 2 siege-gangs maindeck. He wins games.
09-12-2010, 12:10 PM
TossUsToLions

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

You always want 2 Siege-gangs and 4 wastelands. Also, you're not going to want to take out a warchief.
09-12-2010, 02:04 PM
Humphrey

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

yeah -2 Auntie +2 Commader, -1 Port +1 Wasteland and youre good to go.
09-13-2010, 12:06 AM
falln

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

Ok, heres another update, sorry for having soooo many just trying to fine tune my list for the scg tourney next weekend in maryland.

Creatures 31

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Warchief
2 Goblin Chieftain
2 Wort, Boggart Auntie
1 Stingscourger
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Siege-Gang Commander

Spells 2
2 Warren Weirding

Artifact 4
4 Aether Vial

Land 23
6 mountain
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Rishadan Port
3 Wasteland
2 Auntie's Hovel

Sideboard 15
4 Pyrokenesis
3 Perish
3 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Earwig Squad
1 Goblin Tinkerer

The changes this time were -2 Mogg War Marshall, it was a great card but I was a bit underwhelmed with its performance after trying and comparing it to a singleton of sgc. Kiki is something I'm trying out in conjunction with sgc / matron / ringleader, I tried Lightning Crafter in Kiki's slot and wasn't to thrilled with it, I liked it when I was able to play it but I always hated having to sac a goblin.

I'm still happy overall with the performance of my SB

Once again sorry for so many posts I'm just really nervous having never attended a LARGE tourney and I want to really have my deck tuned and running well.

Any and all advice would be great

Current thought - is 4 Gempalm MD the right choice, more wondering if I should drop one in favor of another stingscourger
Thanks!
09-13-2010, 02:21 AM
JonBarber

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

Honestly, for large tournys, the most important thing is not your list but your playing. The people who top8 are the ones who make the least play mistakes, your deck should compliment your play style so as for you to be able to play at the best of your abilities. The second most important thing is your matchups. Sometimes you just get paired against lands all day. Sometimes its 7 rounds of mono u fish. The only thing you can do to improve that seemingly random factor is to build your deck as properly metagamed as you can. (Also falls under that not making mistakes thing). Play what you think will be right for the meta, and what you think will be help you win. Goodluck and have fun!
09-13-2010, 05:34 AM
Humphrey

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

3 ports, 4 waste is the way to go mate
09-13-2010, 05:44 AM
Nelis

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nelis

For now it will be:
4 Pyrokinesis
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Pithing Needle
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Gempalm Instigator
1 open slot

This is the sideboard I eventually used:
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Pithing Needle
2 Vexing Shusher
3 Thorn of Amethyst

We played 6 Rounds, I lost to Zoo and Affinity. I won from (combo)elves (close win), D&T Rock (close win), Vengesurvival(easy win) and Merfolk (easy win).

Against Zoo I kept a too slow a hand (no early blockers) the last game and I didn't draw any Ringleaders to keep up. Against Affinity game one I lost while having him on 1 life because I had Wasted a land of his. Therefore my Warchief and Ringleaders were a turn too late. I got him to 1 life and then I lost. Game 2 I lost because of a play mistake. I bounced one of his Ravagers so he put all counters on his other Ravager. I then matroned another Stingscourger to bounce his other Ravager but he also had a Ornithopter. I should have searched for a Tuktuk Scrapper to kill his Ornithopter. I had enough goblins on the table to chump block for a while to have me buy time find another answer for his 2nd Ravager. And I should have side in the two Pithing Needles

Dislikes:
1. I missed the 4th War Marshal in the main
2. It's impossible to sideboard out more than 2 cards.
3. Pyrokinesis. I really think I'm going to leave these out my sideboard. You basically want to side in 3 preferably 4 but you don't really want to take any goblins out. I am convinced that if I run 4 War Marshals, 4 Gempalm Incinerators and 2 stingscourgers I have more than enough means to fight any aggro deck out there. If I take the 3 Pyrokinesis out of the sideboard and add a Stingscourger then those matchups are settled. This also leaves me with 2 more sideboard spaces.
4. Vexing Shusher. There's always another 2 cards or no cards to side in against decks with counterspells. Maybe they're useful against countertop but I find even that hard to believe.
5. Affinity. Its a tough matchup. This is one of the few matchups I actually wouldn't mind siding in more than 2 cards. Its basically a matter of stalling a bit kill a load of artifacts midgame with shattering spree and then win. If that guy plays again next time I'm sure to have 3 or 4 Shattering Spree available in my sideboard.

Extra thoughts:
I'm inclined to put tune my sideboard against the really bad match-ups like Affinity, Combo, Burn, anything with Progenitus. With a main deck to fight any aggro deck (sans Affinity) there's really no need for sideboard space for those matchups. Since Monored is very consistent there's also hardly any need to have sideboard cards vs control.

With this metagame in mind (and taking combo into account) the sideboard would be something like this:
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuk Tuk Scrapper
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Anarchy
3 Shattering spree
4 Chalice of the Void
09-13-2010, 06:01 AM
GoboLord

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBarber

Honestly, for large tournys, the most important thing is not your list but your playing. The people who top8 are the ones who make the least play mistakes, your deck should compliment your play style so as for you to be able to play at the best of your abilities.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBarber

The second most important thing is your matchups. Sometimes you just get paired against lands all day. Sometimes its 7 rounds of mono u fish.

On average we are more likely to win against Lands than against Merfolk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoboLord

Merfolk: 45% - Goblins: 55%
2-0 XXXXX.XX
2-1 XXXXX.XX
1-1
1-2 XXXXX.XX
0-2 XXXXX.XXXXX.XXX
This means that Merfolks win 45% of the games (including sideboarded games) against Goblins, while Goblins win most of the matches 2-0. I will report the following example in the same fashion only without explanations.

Lands: 40% - Goblins: 60%
2-0 XX
2-1 XX
1-1 XX
1-2 XX
0-2 XXXXX.

(taken from: Sad but true...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nelis

5. Affinity. Its a tough matchup. This is one of the few matchups I actually wouldn't mind siding in more than 2 cards. Its basically a matter of stalling a bit kill a load of artifacts midgame with shattering spree and then win. If that guy plays again next time I'm sure to have 3 or 4 Shattering Spree available in my sideboard.

Extra thoughts:
I'm inclined to put tune my sideboard against the really bad match-ups like Affinity, Combo, Burn, anything with Progenitus. With a main deck to fight any aggro deck (sans Affinity) there's really no need for sideboard space for those matchups. Since Monored is very consistent there's also hardly any need to have sideboard cards vs control.

With this metagame in mind (and taking combo into account) the sideboard would be something like this:
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuk Tuk Scrapper
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Anarchy
3 Shattering spree
4 Chalice of the Void

I think Affinity (or artifacts in general) may become a big issue with Scars of Mirrodin.
If you want to be prepared for Affinity, I'd advice
Hammer Mage
Pulverize
09-13-2010, 06:43 AM
Nelis

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoboLord

If you want to be prepared for Affinity, I'd advice
Hammer Mage
Pulverize

There are much better options than those like Meltdown or even better Shatterstorm. But I think Shattering spree is the best option. It's also good vs control decks that run Shackles or merfolk because its hard to counter multiple replicate spells.
09-13-2010, 07:36 AM
JonBarber

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoboLord

(taken from: Sad but true...

I said mono blue for a reason though, those statistics don't specify one or the other. I've yet to lose a game to mono blue fish (theres a reason they're playing engineered plague). But regardless, my point holds true. Sometimes you face good matchups all day, sometimes you face bad matchups. You just have to make the best of it.
09-13-2010, 07:40 AM
ScatmanX

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nelis

This is the sideboard I eventually used:
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Pithing Needle
2 Vexing Shusher
3 Thorn of Amethyst

We played 6 Rounds, I lost to Zoo and Affinity. I won from (combo)elves (close win), D&T Rock (close win), Vengesurvival(easy win) and Merfolk (easy win).

Against Zoo I kept a too slow a hand (no early blockers) the last game and I didn't draw any Ringleaders to keep up. Against Affinity game one I lost while having him on 1 life because I had Wasted a land of his. Therefore my Warchief and Ringleaders were a turn too late. I got him to 1 life and then I lost. Game 2 I lost because of a play mistake. I bounced one of his Ravagers so he put all counters on his other Ravager. I then matroned another Stingscourger to bounce his other Ravager but he also had a Ornithopter. I should have searched for a Tuktuk Scrapper to kill his Ornithopter. I had enough goblins on the table to chump block for a while to have me buy time find another answer for his 2nd Ravager. And I should have side in the two Pithing Needles

Dislikes:
1. I missed the 4th War Marshal in the main
2. It's impossible to sideboard out more than 2 cards.
3. Pyrokinesis. I really think I'm going to leave these out my sideboard. You basically want to side in 3 preferably 4 but you don't really want to take any goblins out. I am convinced that if I run 4 War Marshals, 4 Gempalm Incinerators and 2 stingscourgers I have more than enough means to fight any aggro deck out there. If I take the 3 Pyrokinesis out of the sideboard and add a Stingscourger then those matchups are settled. This also leaves me with 2 more sideboard spaces.
4. Vexing Shusher. There's always another 2 cards or no cards to side in against decks with counterspells. Maybe they're useful against countertop but I find even that hard to believe.
5. Affinity. Its a tough matchup. This is one of the few matchups I actually wouldn't mind siding in more than 2 cards. Its basically a matter of stalling a bit kill a load of artifacts midgame with shattering spree and then win. If that guy plays again next time I'm sure to have 3 or 4 Shattering Spree available in my sideboard.

Extra thoughts:
I'm inclined to put tune my sideboard against the really bad match-ups like Affinity, Combo, Burn, anything with Progenitus. With a main deck to fight any aggro deck (sans Affinity) there's really no need for sideboard space for those matchups. Since Monored is very consistent there's also hardly any need to have sideboard cards vs control.

With this metagame in mind (and taking combo into account) the sideboard would be something like this:
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuk Tuk Scrapper
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Anarchy
3 Shattering spree
4 Chalice of the Void

May I see your MD again?
-If you run 4 Warmarchal, and 2 Sting SB, you could just add 1 or 2 Bolt SB to completly wreck other agroo decks.
- Shusher is awesome against CB, but completly not needed. We should win anyway.
- If you want something against both Affinity and combo, run Null Rod. It hoses combo, destroys Affinity completly, and is awesome against decks with Equipaments. I'd run them in place of Spree in your new SB.
- I don't think there's anything that can turn Burn into a positive MU.
09-13-2010, 09:22 AM
Nelis

Re: [DTB] Vial Goblins

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScatmanX

May I see your MD again?
-If you run 4 Warmarchal, and 2 Sting SB, you could just add 1 or 2 Bolt SB to completly wreck other agroo decks.
- Shusher is awesome against CB, but completly not needed. We should win anyway.
- If you want something against both Affinity and combo, run Null Rod. It hoses combo, destroys Affinity completly, and is awesome against decks with Equipaments. I'd run them in place of Spree in your new SB.
- I don't think there's anything that can turn Burn into a positive MU.

I like Null Rod but I don't own them (yet). Nice one! Also good in shutting down other problem artifacts like Top and Shackles.
Running Chalice is half the work against burn and we could complement it with Thorn of Amethyst.

This is what I played yesterday:

//Artifacts
4 Aether Vial

//Creatures
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Matron
4 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Mogg War Marshal
2 Goblin Chieftain
2 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Stingscourger

//Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
17 Mountain

If I pick the deck up again I will change: -1 Goblin Chieftain +1 Mogg War Marshal

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