[Deck] Merfolk

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Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow

Never said he wasn't awesome. But the rule is a 4 of means you want it in your opening hand. 3 of means you want to see it in the game, and so forth.

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Your argument, you can vial him in at turn 2 and pump him up at your turn. The problem with that is, again, I rather not care for a 3/3 flyer, but rather drop another silver gill, or a LOA on that turn.

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While a good rule of thumb for most decks, this doesn't apply to Merfolk. It's a deck of high redundancy with practially zero draw/selection.
Regarding 3 or 4 CC, I advise to stick to four. Merfolk got such a huge boost out of Commander's printing and shouldn't fail to take full advantage of it. In most matchups, playing additional Silvergils or Lords early on is the better choice but Commander's power is second to none in this deck once the game goes beyond turn 4. Up until then, we haven't seen enough cards to justify only running it as a 3 drop. Just swarming the opponent will usually only work against Combo and Commander provides the long-needed final "punch" Merfolk had always been missing before it was printed.

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Originally Posted by Julian23

While a good rule of thumb for most decks, this doesn't apply to Merfolk. It's a deck of high redundancy with practially zero draw/selection.
Regarding 3 or 4 CC, I advise to stick to four. Merfolk got such a huge boost out of Commander's printing and shouldn't fail to take full advantage of it. In most matchups, playing additional Silvergils or Lords early on is the better choice but Commander's power is second to none in this deck once the game goes beyond turn 4. Up until then, we haven't seen enough cards to justify only running it as a 3 drop. Just swarming the opponent will usually only work against Combo and Commander provides the long-needed final "punch" Merfolk had always been missing before it was printed.

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I understand about your swarming tactic with commander. To me, it seems you ALSO leave commander unleveled until late game. At two mana, with phantasmal image, I can get instant lord boosts for my other guys to swarm. Thats why I took the CC out for a phantasmal

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Originally Posted by kirbysdl

Note that the loss of MM also means that we'll be replacing it with cards that most likely cost mana, which is addition strain on our mana supply. In short, the ability to pump Coralhelm will now be less certain

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I msut agree that Coralhelm was unarguably a must x4, while we had a deck that ran:
Lands
Vials
Merfolks
11 Mana-less Counterspells

For some months we've been able to spend all our mana on pumping him without a sweat, but now we'll have to replace MM for a mana spell, and that'll force us to keep mana open at the end of turn. Thus, making pumping considerably slower. Still, I believe him to be the best single merfolk winning an incredible amount of games by himself, and I'll keep 4 of him, but we'll have to pay with another mentality.

My idea to test to replace the MM spots would be with 1 Daze, 3 Dismember (I kinda specially fear Lavamancer now, and Lackey will come back) and/or 3 Stifle (since we're gonna be a bit slower, why not slow the opponent and gain some unexpected tricks in the process?).

Would you guys consider Gut Shot maindeckable? It kills Vendillion, Spellstutter, Lavamancer, Dryad, Hierarch, MofRunes, Lackey, Confidant, Elves, Scryb Sprite, Peacekeeper, etc, without tapping a single land nor losing lives. This would just be an idea to keep our deck as fast as possible, by freely killing the earliest threats on the board, slowing the opponent down or disrupting his game plan.

Although for only 1 mana more we have Dismember, which can take down a wider spectrum of the meta-game. Anyway I think that this little red dude could be Dismember 5-6 if need be.

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Originally Posted by NihilObstat

I msut agree that Coralhelm was unarguably a must x4, while we had a deck that ran:
Lands
Vials
Merfolks
11 Mana-less Counterspells

For some months we've been able to spend all our mana on pumping him without a sweat, but now we'll have to replace MM for a mana spell, and that'll force us to keep mana open at the end of turn. Thus, making pumping considerably slower. Still, I believe him to be the best single merfolk winning an incredible amount of games by himself, and I'll keep 4 of him, but we'll have to pay with another mentality.

My idea to test to replace the MM spots would be with 2 Dismember (I kinda specially fear Lavamancer now, and Lackey will come back) and 2 Stifle (since we're gonna be a bit slower, why not slow the opponent and gain some unexpected tricks in the process?).

Would you guys consider Gut Shot maindeckable? It kills Vendillion, Spellstutter, Lavamancer, Dryad, Hierarch, MofRunes, Lackey, Confidant, Elves, Scryb Sprite, Peacekeeper, etc, without tapping a single land nor losing lives. This would just be an idea to keep our deck as fast as possible, by freely killing the earliest threats on the board, slowing the opponent down or disrupting his game plan.

Although for only 1 mana more we have Dismember, which can take down a wider spectrum of the meta-game. Anyway I think that this little red dude could be Dismember 5-6 if need be.

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Gut Shot certainly has a wide range of applications, but it is still dead to fast Zoo (that isn't running lavamancer) and most combo - although besides zoo it does help merfolk's poorest matchups. Your list highlights quite a few of the 'must deal with' creatures though. Perhaps it would be good out of the board? Even though most combo matches are favorable, I'm hesitant to put a card in that will be dead in certain MUs.

I think most people are running 2 MB dismembers (with the 3rd often in the side)...without MM I could see that jumping to 3.

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Originally Posted by chuck2657

It is still dead to most combo. Even though most combo matches are favorable, I'm hesitant to put a card in that will be dead in certain MUs. I think most people are running 2 MD dismembers (with the 3rd often in the side)...without MM I could see that jumping to 3.

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I'm just kidding here, but it is less dead than Dismember against Combo MUs since you can use it to take 1 Life from the opponent while Dismember only targets creatures ^^

I wouldn't mind giving gutshot consideration in the main with dismember in the sb. While dismember is certainly the more useful of the two, against a deck like goblins not using my mana and not losing 4 life seems far more important. I might test 2 gutshot main and see how I feel. The enlightened tutor sb lists look interesting but I don't think I want to have to rely that heavily on my white sources...also needs testing.

Tried splashing white. Tested last night. It still does not really solve the problem when a batterskull drops on the table.

That guy is brutal. The swords to plowshares did help out a lot more than eating 4 life from dismember all the time.

What i've noticed is that post MM, the deck does not seem to have enough counters. The counters we have in hand must be treated like precious metal, especially the free ones. Only use it when you see something you can't stop, ie. batterskull.

What about...

20 Lands

4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergil Adept
4 Merfolk Reejerey
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Phantasmal Image

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 DIsmember

a straight 4of deck.

What ya think of it?

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Originally Posted by Philipp802

What about...

20 Lands

4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergil Adept
4 Merfolk Reejerey
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Phantasmal Image

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 DIsmember

a straight 4of deck.

What ya think of it?

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Problem is that you will keep dazing, leading to a lower land count on board. This makes it difficult to level up coralhelm commander. Additionally, you won't have enough counters to fight combo decks.

and 4 dismembers, ouch. Are you trying to give away your game to zoo?

I dont have zoo in my meta :) And ill have 4 Spell Pierce and 2 Surgical Extraction in Side for Storm.
What would your monobluelist look like?

Zoo's going to be on an upswing, so I wouldn't run Merfolk without Kira in the main. I'd take out some combination of Reejerey, Coralhelm, and Image for 2. If Kira eats two removal spells, that's two Merfolk who survive. Just as importantly, it gives you time to bring out enough Lords to get everyone out of bolt range. Hell, I might even run three (one in the side).

EDIT: Ninja-ed. If you aren't gonna face a lot of point removal, then I guess Kira's less important. This is why it's important to describe your meta when offering up a list. =)

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Originally Posted by Philipp802

I dont have zoo in my meta :) And ill have 4 Spell Pierce and 2 Surgical Extraction in Side for Storm.
What would your monobluelist look like?

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4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergil Adept
4 Merfolk Reejerey
3 Coralhelm Commander
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Kira

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 DIsmember (or 2 dismembers and up a phantasmal)
3 spell pierce

board
3 submerges
2 llawan
1 dismember

10 of whatever your meta asks for (probably throw in another spell pierce)

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Originally Posted by kirbysdl

Zoo's going to be on an upswing, so I wouldn't run Merfolk without Kira in the main. I'd take out some combination of Reejerey, Coralhelm, and Image for 2. If Kira eats two removal spells, that's two Merfolk who survive. Just as importantly, it gives you time to bring out enough Lords to get everyone out of bolt range. Hell, I might even run three (one in the side).

EDIT: Ninja-ed. If you aren't gonna face a lot of point removal, then I guess Kira's less important. This is why it's important to describe your meta when offering up a list. =)

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Kira is not a three of...she gets annoying later.

I admit I need to test more. I've only recently gotten all the cards to complete it (horrible timing, I know). That said, the reason I threw it out there is because my meta has a ton of point removal, and I expect Kira will be a lightning rod for it. I get what you're saying though, re: Legendary.

I like your list, but am undecided on the exact numbers of Reejerey/Commander/Image.

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Originally Posted by kirbysdl

I admit I need to test more. I've only recently gotten all the cards to complete it (horrible timing, I know). That said, the reason I threw it out there is because my meta has a ton of point removal, and I expect Kira will be a lightning rod for it. I get what you're saying though, re: Legendary.

I like your list, but am undecided on the exact numbers of Reejerey/Commander/Image.

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Thanks.

On another note, I'm kinda worried to take my UW merfolk to a local tournament this weekened. i wonder how wastelands will affect my lands.

Since everybody is sharing their post mm merfolk builds, I'll post mine. Criticism is very welcome!

4 mutavault
4 wasteland
12 island

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Dismember
2 spell pierce

4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergil Adept
4 Merfolk Reejerey
4 Coralhelm Commander
2 Merfolk Sovereign / Phantasmal Image
2 Kira

SB:
1 Kira
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Dismember
1 or 2 Gut Shot
3 Submerge
1 Spell Pierce
2 Vendillion Clique
2 Hydroblast

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Originally Posted by cheerios

Since everybody is sharing their post mm merfolk builds, I'll post mine. Criticism is very welcome!

4 mutavault
4 wasteland
12 island

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Dismember
2 spell pierce

4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Silvergil Adept
4 Merfolk Reejerey
4 Coralhelm Commander
2 Merfolk Sovereign / Phantasmal Image
2 Kira

SB:
1 Kira
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Dismember
1 or 2 Gut Shot
3 Submerge
1 Spell Pierce
2 Vendillion Clique
2 Hydroblast

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You can't be serious wasting a percrious sideboard slot for 1 gut shot. The one-of is so low, its not gonna matter when it counts...ie. the opposing players opening play with bob, noble, bird, any stupid 1 drops.

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Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow

You can't be serious wasting a percrious sideboard slot for 1 gut shot. The one-of is so low, its not gonna matter when it counts...ie. the opposing players opening play with bob, noble, bird, any stupid 1 drops.

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hahaha. I was just planning to test it. I might change it to another hydroblast or something else. I'm pretty scared of zoo again now that misstep is gone.

Here is my postban list

// Lands
3 [R] Underground Sea
3 [US] Island
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [MPR] Wasteland
4 [CHP] Mutavault

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Cursecatcher
4 [A] Lord of Atlantis
4 [ROE] Coralhelm Commander
4 [LRW] Merrow Reejerey
4 [LRW] Silvergill Adept
2 [BOK] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 [M12] Phantasmal Image
1 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
2 [M10] Merfolk Sovereign

// Spells
4 [V10] AEther Vial
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [BOK] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 3 [6E] Perish
SB: 3 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 2 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus


I decided to add black, cause of Engineered Plague, without MM Goblins and Elves are going to see more play. The maindeck I think, it is pretty good, I wanted as much creatures as possible.

I am not sure about the third Kira in the board, I have it there before the bannings cause of the NO RUG matchup, where she really shine, I am not sure if NO RUG will see as much play as did before ban. I am considering cutting it and putting 3rd Dismember there, what do you guys think?

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Originally Posted by straca3

Here is my postban list

// Lands
3 [R] Underground Sea
3 [US] Island
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [MPR] Wasteland
4 [CHP] Mutavault

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Cursecatcher
4 [A] Lord of Atlantis
4 [ROE] Coralhelm Commander
4 [LRW] Merrow Reejerey
4 [LRW] Silvergill Adept
2 [BOK] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 [M12] Phantasmal Image
1 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
2 [M10] Merfolk Sovereign

// Spells
4 [V10] AEther Vial
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [BOK] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 3 [6E] Perish
SB: 3 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 2 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus


I decided to add black, cause of Engineered Plague, without MM Goblins and Elves are going to see more play. The maindeck I think, it is pretty good, I wanted as much creatures as possible.

I am not sure about the third Kira in the board, I have it there before the bannings cause of the NO RUG matchup, where she really shine, I am not sure if NO RUG will see as much play as did before ban. I am considering cutting it and putting 3rd Dismember there, what do you guys think?

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As someone who has a third Kira on the board, I'll say keep it up. It's there for zoo and control decks who bring in more spot removal post board. But it all boils down to your local meta.