I would kill for someone tapping out turn 3 or turn 2 (with DRS) for TNN (Pun intended)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
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I would kill for someone tapping out turn 3 or turn 2 (with DRS) for TNN (Pun intended)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Also, a seven-turns clock is pretty unimpressive, esp. when the creature alone doesn't do anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I'd fear Teeg/Thalia/Cannonist/Confidant/Goyf/SFM much more than this new dude. And notice these are two-drops, while TNN... Heck, I'd much rather stare at this than at Phyrexian Negator. Or, speaking of color blue, an Illusionary Angel/Sea Drake...
Apart from that fact that i don't see how that changes anything, no. TNN ist not a threat, it is an answer to uncounterable removal (Abrupt Decay and Punishing Fire). Decks don't want to play a 3/∞ for 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
TNN is really slow for legacy standart and thus bad against combo.
Non interactive? There are whole decks that are non interactive, also called combo decks. How is a single, slow creature worse?
Non interactive? Every single current D2B either doesn't care or can do something against TNN. ANT, Dredge, Elves and S&S can just race it. UGR and UWR can race it, counter it or prevent three mana with Stifle and Wasteland. Jund has Discard and Liliana, Shardless Discard, Counters and Liliana, Miracles has Terminus and counters and DnT can prevent three mana with Prot and Wasteland or attack with pro:blue from MoM.
Yes, TNN is strong, but we already have Goyf and Delver, surely both more format warping than TNN is going to be.
More whinning about combo? The only color that lacks decent answers to combo is green. Stop that nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derklord
Something that you and other fail to realize is, that every DtB in the history of Magic tries to minimize the possible interactions of their opponens with their cards. You don't want your creatures handled by removal, you don't want your opponent having mana/time to play spells, you don't wanna see your spells countered, etc. Reducing your opponents possible ways to interact with your deck is one of the most important aspects to winning a game.
My price prediction of TNN is going to eventually drop to $20-25.
He's good but not super amazing in the grand scheme of things. Certainly not game-breaking like Mental Misstep.
There will be a meta shift and Merfolks will likely make a comeback because of him. I actually think he's terrible in tempo decks like RUG since they don't want a lot of mana and tapping out for three is not good for their plan of cheap threats + disruption. Rug resolving TNN against something like Jund or w/e isn't a big deal between their non-targeted removal and superior threats.
He's much better in mid-rangey/slower decks that want a guaranteed kill condition. A Shardless Deck resolving TNN against RUG is pretty much game over for them: it can block their Gofys and Mongeese all day, they have no ways to remove it, and Abrupt Decay handles their Delver.
tld;r TNN isn't getting banned.
TNN is just a nail in the coffin for all "fair" decks like RUG/BUG/non-miracle controls, all of them will need MD answer vs this guy - it will just shift those deck to more unplayable or change them to adopt - like MD Engineered Explosives (btw this card will rise in prize).
BUG already has maindeck answers for it. Discard can grab it and Lilly can sac it. BUG decks might actually like to have TNN main decked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal
Most control decks don't care about it.
RuG tempo decks are the ones most in trouble by it. TNN will most likely see play in Merfolk, which means counters do nothing. Burn can't remove it. TNN is a good card but not ban worthy. He's basically a suped up Troll Ascetic.
Wait for Leyline of Sanctity build...
Golgari Charm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal
No one speaking about Show and Tell after yesterday Top8 in SCG?
Half of the decks were Sneak and Show
Why? The whole format is full of Delver and S&T. No news.Quote:
Originally Posted by BVB09
At least Delver is a creature, and indeed more interactive/fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
In any case Delver appears in 3-4 diferent decks, but yesterday we got the same deck in half of the top8
+1.5Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I utterly destroyed several people with StifleWaste on last Thu and it wasn't the only time I've done so. Sitting on zero lands, been beaten by a pair of one-mana 3/2 flying Nacatls or by two-mana 4/5 Werebear while knowing that your opponent holds FoW, Snare, Pierce, REB, Daze, Daze, Daze is hardly what I'd call "a fair situation".
Griselbrand and Emrakul are creatures too and are played also in Reanimator, 12-post, Doomsday, Vintage Oath and others. 3 isn't the half of 8 either. All your arguments are invalid.Quote:
Originally Posted by BVB09
I guess the curious thing is why did the invitational guys opted for Sneak&Show instead of OmniTell in general. Topic for another thread..
On the S&T banworthiness etc., I think the people who think it's an overpowered card should take it to 4-5 consecutive events. I had my best and worst finishes with the deck. Sometimes you get all the right cards and feel unbeatable. Sometimes no amount of cantripping can find you the cards you need and your opp. seems to have all the right answers. It's a miserable experience when the deck shits on itself.
Sure 12-post is a tier deck, same as Doomsday. I don't know why are you speaking about vintage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I suppose those are creatures just the same way as Balustrade Spy and Simian Spirit Guide are.
In any case I was speaking about Show and Tell, not Emrakul or Griselbrand
PD: I can count 4.
Deck Finish Player
Sneak and Show 1st
Sneak and Show 2nd
Shardless BUG 3rd
Sneak and Show 4th
Sneak and Show 5th
Esper Stoneblade 6th
Shardless BUG 7th
U/W/R Delver 8th
My guess is so they could play Blood Moon, especially vs Shardless BUG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgs
But on topic, the prevalence of S&S in the top 8 was more that several very strong players chose a well-positioned deck and did well, and less that the deck is so broken that a card needs to be banned. The decks that went 8-0 or 7-1 in the Legacy portion of the event do include 3 Sneak and Show lists, but there's a bit of diversity after that, including decks like 12-Post, Affinity, Miracles, and Imperial Painter.
Indeed. Plus, there was the hilarious game five between BBD and Brad Nelson which showcases the fact that sometimes, variance just kills you: BBD saw the same five cards after about 7 shuffles, including multiple BS-Fetch shuffles. What let the others down, including our Turbo-Eldrazi player Dan, was their Standard portion. It was definitely a Perfect-Storm kind of situation, but nothing so dominant as Clamp season in Onslaught-Mirrodin Standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapback
The invitational had plenty of SS because that team of players decided, together, that it was a good meta call for a tournament that usually has a fairly predictable meta.
Nothing to see here
Two card combo easier to play than three?Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgs