[Deck] The Rock

I've played in two tournaments last week. All local. One had about 16 and the other one had 18 (due to spring states).

In the 16 people tournament, I didn't feel like there was a match up i couldn't win just because I felt like I didn't really play Stygian any real deck. I played against expensive cards but against lots of incomplete decks or home brews. I'll give a brief but not a tournament report just because I didn't feel like it pushed my rock list to it's max until the last match. In my first match he played an incomplete version of helm void combo: He did lock me up in game one with RiP + Energy Field. The next two games I blew him out with tarmorgoyf. In the second match I played an aggro elves game: I won with tons of removal, deed and charms. Third match" I played a mono blue hexproof: It consist of creatures coming into play with enchantments on them and playing tons of control spells. I was a bit worried about this match up but decay and charms did a lot of work. The fourth match was the first match that I've ever encountered with The Rock, I played against a complete Lands list. The match was a bit long but i beat him 2-0.... First match two drs just kept eating all his lands and a single goyf was just swinging in every time. The second game went for a long time but I never let him get on board and it didn't help when I extirpated his Life from the Loam and his creeping tarpit. Eventually knight came down and literally just won the game for me. I just wasted all his mazes. Also I feel like sensei's divine top is a much better choice than the sylvan library, being able to manipulate my draws was huge. The MVP card for me that tournament was Golgari Charm. I swear that card just does the work! LOL.... I love love that card in my sideboard. 2 of's. I wouldn't say no more or no less.


In the 18 people tournament I stanked that shiet up!.... smh.... I went 1-2 drop. I was a hypocrite because I vouched for rock lists to run 4 swords while i cut 1 to see how much i liked the deck and it ended up hurting bad. Rock should be playing 4 swords of plowshares. The 1cc removal just goes the distance. In my maverick match up, which by the way he was playing the new version, it would've been very handy dandy. I +2 GSZ and I didn't like it at all. Don't get me wrong, I love GSZ and feel that it's a very powerful card but I rather just have useful utility cards to abuse. I also added a Thrun main and didn't like it either. I felt as is I fu**ed the decks synergy up some how lol. But I all also lost to death and taxes. The only match I won was against miracles.

Since then i've retuned the list:

4 Swords of Plowshare is very significant.
+1 Liliana of the veil making 3 MD I feel is very comfortable and useful.
+1 Jitte, 2 MD can be devastating in any match-up. Even combo for life gain.

I also invested in a full set of foil golgari charms because that card is a literally house. I've -1/-1 a whole field of spirits and goblins. Destroyed sneak attack and numerous enchantments. And have saved my whole team to a top deck supreme verdict lol... All I can say is that I feel it's a must in most sideboards.

Oh and to update the discussion on Nantuko Monastary! Uh.... It's pretty awesome lol I didn't think it would do it's job but it has and ppl don't like it when it's animated. Against control it's sooooo nasty. I've been thinking though to replace it with Tower of the Magistrate, just to try it out. It seems like what i've said is holding true, esper is becoming relevant. So I want to see how much value I can gain from using the tower. My thinking behind it is that, nantuko can prevent jitte counters and batterskull affects but it can't fly!!! lol so when it's equipped to a spirit token i'll get srewed. That's why I feel like the tower can do more work since it'll just unequip those equipments.

i am quite intrested now, would you mind posting your entire list?

thx

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Originally Posted by Claymore

Went 5-1-2 at SCG Nashville, beat Reanimator, Rug x2, Esper blade, Devastating Loam, drew against Dnt and Deathblade (eventual winner) and lost to Lingering Esper blade (top 8). Good for 18th place out of 201.

Ditched IoK for Liliana x2 so only 4 discard (2 TS, 2 Therapy), which was shaky but I dodged combo anyway. I had Tower of the Magistrate sideboard and it was a house in the XBlade matches I got it out. Also ran Cabal Pit in place of Bojuka Bog to do nasty things. These combined to bring me back against a board of Jace, Batterskull, SFM w/ Jitte, and 3 life. Also took down a Batterskull with Sword Feast Famine equipped...all in all the lands are very strong right now. Getting rid of a tap land in Bog has been very good to me too.

Edit:

After getting back in town today, here's the deck I took:



I had to take several mulligans to 6 (only one to 5) and my match loss was partly due to being stuck on 2 lands for several turns in both games. I think I'll cut GSZ and either replace with a basic Plains or just leave as is and be at 22/23 functional lands and 60 cards.

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Let me throw a theoretical question at you: do you think sideboarding NO-Pro would have helped out in the matches you lost?

I'm debating dropping the Bob's to the sideboard, playing a board-control maindeck, and opting for a NO-Pro approach. It lets me work in a bunch of control, allows me to play all 4 copies of Lingering Souls, a Sorin in the main, 3 maindeck Lilianas, and maindeck Deeds.

I only lost one match and it was to Esper Stoneblade, where I got stuck on 2 lands for many, many turns each game. Esper runs Supreme Verdict which could have killed Progenitus if the Natural Orders weren't Thoughtseized first (which is how I lost my Sorin). He also outraced my final comeback turn with a Zealous Persecution and a full fleet of Lingering Souls tokens - my Golgari Charms were no where to be found, unfortunately. Overall I was 1-1-1 against Esper for the day. The other draw was to Death and Taxes, where you would have to get to 4 mana (or 5 with Thalia) against a resource denial control deck, but this player was mostly just slower than I'm used to.

As far as the NO-Prog package goes, I'm not really sure what I would cut to make space for it. Probably the 2 Sorins, Chains, Teeg, and Jitte. My main board plan against Esper was to remove the discard and play Tower, Sorin, Teeg, and Charms. I wasn't fully prepared for this matchup and still need to fully test Chains against it. The overall notion was to go aggro against them instead of trying to out-control the deck with countermagic.

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Originally Posted by Claymore

I only lost one match and it was to Esper Stoneblade, where I got stuck on 2 lands for many, many turns each game. Esper runs Supreme Verdict which could have killed Progenitus if the Natural Orders weren't Thoughtseized first (which is how I lost my Sorin). He also outraced my final comeback turn with a Zealous Persecution and a full fleet of Lingering Souls tokens - my Golgari Charms were no where to be found, unfortunately. Overall I was 1-1-1 against Esper for the day. The other draw was to Death and Taxes, where you would have to get to 4 mana (or 5 with Thalia) against a resource denial control deck, but this player was mostly just slower than I'm used to.

As far as the NO-Prog package goes, I'm not really sure what I would cut to make space for it. Probably the 2 Sorins, Chains, Teeg, and Jitte. My main board plan against Esper was to remove the discard and play Tower, Sorin, Teeg, and Charms. I wasn't fully prepared for this matchup and still need to fully test Chains against it. The overall notion was to go aggro against them instead of trying to out-control the deck with countermagic.

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why would you play NO prog against esper?

Since no one has really touched this:

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Flopnuts72

Deck: Junk
This is my first post on the source. I have been a lerker for about a year now and wanted to post the list I have been using to some success at the local store and on cockatrise.
Counts : 61 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:17
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary

Spells:22
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Lingering Souls
1 Batterskull

Lands:22
2 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Forest
1 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plains
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wasteland

Sideboard:15
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Tower of the Magistrate
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Choke
1 Engineered Plague
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Humility
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad

Some points about the list...
I have the md bog because of dredge in my meta. I have also found it useful against rug/knight mirror/and random grave nuke. I like the fact it's uncounterable, can't be hit by targeted discard, and is tutorable.

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Your list looks fine. It's tuned for your meta obviously with the SFM package and such. One thing: I think 2 Ooze is too many, especially with GSZ. I would cut an Ooze for a SFM, and possibly cut a Knight for a Goyf (since sometimes you want to GSZ on X=2 for a 5/6). Or, with all the combo floating around, perhaps a maindeck Gaddock Teeg. Guy is damn good against Esper.

Otherwise, the tutor board seems fine. You could also run a split of Garruk Relentless and Sorin just for more tutoring, if you felt like you needed it/if you know there's less Punishing Fires in your metagame.

Otherwise, I think it looks good. I think the basic plains could be a basic Swamp or another dual, though. The plains is really bad most of the time, I've found.

-Matt

I think we need to take a good hard look and see how we're beating Esper. I see a ton of different plans all over the fucking place, and no real cohesive or agreed upon strategy. I mean, I guess it depends on the build, but we need to still go over a few cards at least.

1) Tower of the Magistrate: I feel like if you're keeping Knights in for this matchup, then bringing in a Tower is perfectly fine. Like, more than fine. However, I'm just wondering, why are you keeping Knights in? What's everyone's reason for actually keeping these in games 2 and 3? Let's look at a sample list:

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Traditional Esperblade:


2-3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
0-1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1-2 Clique

Planeswalkers (3)

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands (22)

2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
1 Mystic Gate
3 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas

Spells (28)

1 Batterskull
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Lingering Souls
2 Ponder
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Thoughtseize
1 Vindicate

Sideboard
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Detention Sphere
1 Engineered Plague
1 Disenchant
1 Flusterstorm
1 Path to Exile/Perish
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Zealous Persecution
3 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Supreme Verdict

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How they're beating the creature decks is Swords + Snapcaster Mage, roll into Jace/Batterskull and win the game. So, how are you stopping this?

1) Discard their SFM/Kill it before they untap with that. This is a major nutkick and puts Esper on the back-pedal since they're down being able to cheat equipment into play, but also a creature to hook it up to. Considering they only run ~10 guys, this is a major problem for them, that's why Jund rocks their socks. Killing in response to equipping is super cool business, and such, so is Tower of the Magistrate.

2) Stop them from playing Jace/Batterskull/EE/Verdict. Even if Jace doesn't ramp up, he's digging for mass removal/more goodies to blow out your team. Batterskull is super annoying and the lifegain can buy them turns and turns. EE can take out critical DRS's or Sylvans. Verdict wipes you out of the game. How do you battle huge control elements.

Gaddock. Fucking. Teeg.

This is the same plan against Miracles. They need to go find Swords or Snapcaster (or both) before laying out control bombs, whereas you don't even care. Eve if they ping him off, they had to do a ton of work (hopefully) going to find removal, while you're laying out attrition pieces (like Souls, your own Equipment, Library, etc.).

Even delaying any sort of attrition action on their part is good times for you. So you can either stop their attrition, slow it down, or just nut them (Natural Order could be good, but their mix of discard and counters could be dicey).


Let's put it this way, their sample board plan with this list is likely:

-4 Force of Will
-2 Spell Pierce
-1 Counterspell
+1 Sword of Feast and Famine
+1 Perish/Path to Exile
+1 Supreme Verdict
+1 Zealous Persecution (if they see Souls)
+3 Geist of St. Traft (not necessarily strictly true, but they can clock you and it dodges all our removal)

So they're likely bringing out mostly useless counters, since we have tons of discard, for more control bombs to X-for-1 us. This is a legitimate path to victory. They also bring in a few more bodies to hook up to more equipment, coupled with some nice hate. Cool beans.

So what are we doing, assuming we're on the draw? Again, assuming a GSZ/Souls based list:

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Sideboard:

1 Life from the Loam
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Garruk Relentess (since I know there's no Punishing Jund, just regular)
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Golgari Charm
2 Pernicious Deed

Maindeck

4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Ooze

4 Lingering Souls
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sylvan Library

2 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Maelstrom Pulse

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Bayou
2 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
1 Maze of Ith
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith

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So, the real question is, how are you fighting their differing angles of attack? They don't bring in Rest in Peace, so you don't need to board out everything. However, this game/match is going to get grindy, so you might as well strap in for the long game. Let's analyze what cards are TERRIBLE in the matchup.

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None. This is the main problem when facing Esperblade. You can't cut tutoring/card draw/manipulation, since that's how you keep up and win.

Can't cut removal, since you need to kill their Equipment and guys so they can't attack you with Equipment.

Lingering Souls is one of the stronger pieces of attrition you have, and can survive sweepers/harasses Jace.

So, if we're trying to prevent Equipment from being a reliable win condition, and preventing Jace/Batterskull being another avenue, how are we doing this?

Ideally, Gaddock Teeg and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben do what you want them to do. Gaddock Teeg makes them dig so they can blow you out with Verdict/EE/Jace. So, play a few copies and tutor for them in case he dies in a fire, which he will.

Stopping Snapcaster+removal is done by Ooze and Deathrite, as well as Thalia making EOT plays like this harder and harder to do. Delaying big control bombs from coming down until Turn 5 so you can land Teeg is huge.

I know everyone knows and loves discard in this matchup, but is that really a thing? I feel like I WANT to take out Knight for a few reasons:

It's a creature that is played on Turn 3 and does NOTHING until turn 4. Being on the draw means this creature is AWFUL. Turn 3 on the draw is crucial since it's turning into their Jace/Verdict turn, or they've assembled Souls and are waiting to slam a bomb if they have it. I feel like I want to be doing something else than wasting a turn 3 playing a Knight.

I get it's a big/big creature that fetches some cool lands, but I feel in this matchup it's rather lacking. I feel like to handle Esperblade, I want to bring in elements that hammer SFM, SCM+Swords, and Jace.

I feel like bringing in 3 Teeg, 3 Thalia, 2 Golgari charm, 1 Sylvan Safekeeper (for Souls/Humility/Verdict) substituted for 3 Knight, 1 Maze, and 5 pieces of discard seems like a good trade. You're a bit more reactive, I'll admit that, but getting blown out by Jace and control pieces is not my idea of fun.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

But, there's a new kid on the block. Deathblade!

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Deathblade


Creatures (16)

4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Notion Thief
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Vendilion Clique

Planeswalkers (3)

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands (23)

1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
2 Wasteland

Spells (18)

1 Batterskull
4 Brainstorm
3 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize

Sideboard
2 Meddling Mage
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Celestial Purge
1 Counterspell
1 Disenchant
1 Force of Will
1 Hydroblast
1 Path to Exile
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Thoughtseize
1 Vindicate

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So, they've gone more mid-range then, and may or may not go Liliana. But, we're the better midrange deck. So, I think the plan for this deck changes a bit. Sure, they bring in Verdict from the board, but they have more creatures to kill on their own side. I think as long as we make sure to nuke their Deathrite Shamans and Equipment (but not the SFM unless they're going for Batterskull), then we should be fine. I think in this boarded matchup, we're the control deck. You bring in 2 Deeds, 2 Charms, 1 Safekeeper for the 5 pieces of discard and keep in the Knights, since it just totally outclasses their shitty small dudes.


Again, thoughts?

I just want to make sure we have a cohesive strategy to work with.

-Matt

Personal bias aside, I feel like leaving the Therapies in (and possibly bringing in the 3rd out of the board) is a good plan. Esper (and especially deathblade) gives you so much free information that Therapy can be an absolute beating -- and the only thing better than discarding their SFM, is hitting their Batterskull after they tutor for it.

Agreed on cutting Knights and Thoughtseizes. Using that (is it your list?) as a starting point, I would go:

-3 Knight
-3 Thoughtseize
-2 Abrupt Decay
-1 Maze of Ith
-1 Souls
-1 Goyf

+1 Cabal Therapy
+1 Sorin
+1 Garruk
+3 Teeg
+2 Golgari Charm
+3 Thalia

Rationale: Cutting Knight IMO means cutting Maze of Ith. In this matchup, Maze isn't going to do a whole hell of a lot other than sit there and piss you off. Ideally you might be able to frustrate their Batterskull or their Sword'd guy, but then their Sword'd guy is on defense, and if Batterskull is out, you probably lost anyway.

Other than Souls, SFM, Snapcaster (lol), Jitte, and postboard Feast/Famine, Esperblade doesn't really have anything worth Decaying. As such, I'd say that cutting down to a 2-Decay package should be sufficient when coupled with the 3 StP.

Shaving a Goyf and a Souls is a concession to space mostly -- Goyf makes more sense of the two, because you're cutting a green creature for white ones, thereby dodging the Perish they're bringing in. Also, with GSZ, you can find Goyf lategame when you need a big dude. You don't need 3 for this matchup IMO. Souls is a rough shave, but I think that the deck can afford going down to 3 -- especially since you're bringing in the Golgari Charms and will need to be a little more cagey with when you use your Souls. This cut is debatable, but all in all I'd rather have any one of the sideboarded cards than the 4th Souls in this matchup.

Only problem with taking Knights out is that you lose a ton of utility to counteract their main win condition. Knights overall were key in the games I won against Esper, partially due to the slight design changes I made to the deck with Cabal Pit and Tower. Even without those lands, your knight acts as 3-4 extra equipment removal spells (or more with GSZ) since he grabs Maze of Ith to counteract equipment, especially Jitte. We can block Batterskull with our face fine for a time (and then return the favor quickly with massive Knights), but an active Jitte will annihilate our field. Batterskull on defense (due to a Maze or huge Knight) means a stalled field, which is where you get to tick up Deathrite Shaman.

Teeg is great, but I'm not entirely convinced of Thalia. Thalia and Teeg means you're going more of an aggro, Dark Maverick game plan with no heavy beater aside from Goyf, trying to outrace the eventual lifelinking Batterskull with your 2/x army. Unfortunately, this also means your field gets raped by Jitte, and their deck is dedicated to finding Jitte; a problem further hampered by taking out discard. Don't forget that they also run Karakas and Venser, which is what allowed one Esper to bounce Teeg and Supreme Verdict the field. A Batterskull of your own is good with SFM, but then you're just bumping heads.

I think overall, Esper is designed to get to the late game, and Teeg/Thalia alone cannot let us keep them in the early-mid game. A late game top decked Thalia is much worse than a Knight, especially when facing down a Jace, SFM w/ Jitte, and Batterskull. A Knight allows you utility to prevent Jitte from removing your Shamans, as well as stopping the Sword of Feast and Famine that is making its way into decks (I saw it in 2 matches). It did let me, in one game, fetch Cabal Pit to kill SFM w/ Jitte, play Liliana to kill Batterskull, and swing and kill Jace.

Cabal Therapy is definitely good here, and I'll probably try and leave it in in the future, maybe going 1-2-3 IoK-TS-Therapy, although I'll have to figure out where to fit it all. One Esper player (sadly, my match loss) made a gross misplay of bouncing Batterskull his turn and then playing Supreme Verdict, where I simply flashed back Souls to flashback Therapy it out.

I kept in AD's and Swords to specifically remove Jitte and their small creatures (Batterskull token, Clique, Dark Confidant). Your 2 mana AD counteracts their 6 mana to cast SFM, put in Jitte, and attach it and swing. Big tempo play that I made all day.

My overall deck design and game plan was to specifically counter SFM and then overrun their depleted field. It worked fairly well, even though my record was even across the board.

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All that said, Thalia is definitely useful in a lot of matches, and it would be worthwhile for sure to test her out some more. I'll have to check this out.

I follow the arguments for siding out Knight against control decks. But how does one justify cutting discard?

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Originally Posted by Mirrislegend

I follow the arguments for siding out Knight against control decks. But how does one justify cutting discard?

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It's a horrible, horrible topdeck in games that are very likely to go late. The only reason Therapy escapes this fate IMO, is that you can use it to aggressively combat their Dark Confidants and Stoneforge Mystics. Also, you can Pulse their Batterskull midgame, then when they invariably bounce it, you can get rid of it forever. Therapying on t3 naming Jace isn't a slouch, either.

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Originally Posted by Mirrislegend

I follow the arguments for siding out Knight against control decks. But how does one justify cutting discard?

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Yeah, because it's a horrible late game topdeck. Maybe it's just sampling bias, but I've just had a few too many times where I've topdecked discard in the late game where it was doing absolutely nothing. Again, possible bias.

But I like that we're creating discussion on the topic to see how we're beating them. I approve.

-Matt

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Yeah, because it's a horrible late game topdeck. Maybe it's just sampling bias, but I've just had a few too many times where I've topdecked discard in the late game where it was doing absolutely nothing. Again, possible bias.

But I like that we're creating discussion on the topic to see how we're beating them. I approve.

-Matt

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Late game topdeck fails are inherent in almost every card choice in almost every matchup. It's the risk vs reward that must be examined.

The odds are vastly in our favor. Top (or Library), fetches, and Confidant tend to save us from wasted draws.
Also, I'll take the bad draw in the late game if it lets me eat a super relevant spell earlier (tell me you don't like Thoughtseizing a Jace!)
Lastly, it has applications in the mid to late game. How often do they cast stoneforge AND the tutored equipment on the same turn. Eat that equipment straight out of their hand!
I see the reward as vastly outweighing the risk.

To be honest, the only issue I see is "which discard to use?" I'm on 4x Thoughtseize, 2x IoK (and 3x Lili). But 1 to 2 of those Inquisitions becoming Duresses has occurred to me, since combo and control are so much more prevalent than little critters these days. (I'm not sure I'm good enough to play Cabal Therapy properly)

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First, the obvious:
Late game topdeck fails are inherent in almost every card choice in almost every matchup.

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Sure, but some cards are worse than others. At least a creature can swing in, a piece of discard on an empty hand doesn't.

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More importantly:
The odds are vastly in our favor. Top (or Library), fetches, and Confidant tend to save us from wasted draws.
Also, I'll take the bad draw in the late game if it lets me eat a super relevant spell earlier (tell me you don't like Thoughtseizing a Jace!)
Lastly, it has applications in the mid to late game. How often do they cast stoneforge AND the tutored equipment on the same turn. Eat that equipment straight out of their hand!

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I'm not saying I like cutting the discard, because I too like to muck up their hand, however, it is the most appropriate cut, I figure.

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To be honest, the only issue I see is "which discard to use?" I'm on 4x Thoughtseize, 2x IoK (and 3x Lili). But 1 to 2 of those Inquisitions becoming Duresses has occurred to me, since combo and control are so much more prevalent than little critters these days. (I'm not sure I'm good enough to play Cabal Therapy properly)

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If you're on Souls, run Cabal Therapy. So this is how you run Cabal Therapy:

If it's turn 1, and you have no idea what they're on, call out what nuts your hand from the most common deck. Ex. Deathrite, SFM, Force, etc.

If you know what deck, what kills you? What DON'T you want to see? If you have no removal for a Turn 2 SFM, then call SFM. If it's the Jace you fear down the line, maybe wait until before they play it.

Ideally, you get information from how they play or another discard spell. If you don't have that, then you need to call the cards that cause you to lose or disrupt your gameplan. That simple.

-Matt

Also, don't be afraid to whiff. I won't pretend to say that I'm godly with my Therapies, and I've been playing the card for two years straight now. If you call the thing you're scared of, and they have it, then that's awesome! If you call it and they DON'T have it, then that's still fine because you still aren't losing to that card in their hand, and now you have information going ahead. A lot of times I'll have reads on my opponent and know 1-2 cards in their hand -- but I won't call something that I know (or am pretty sure) will hit because I'm just not scared of it.

I hear that statement a lot -- the whole, I'm not good enough to play Therapy! excuse. Bullshit. You know well enough what will destroy you the worst of any card ever in your opponent's deck. Vs Esperblade, if you can physically move the muscles in your mouth to name Batterskull, you can play Therapy.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

I hear that statement a lot -- the whole, I'm not good enough to play Therapy! excuse. Bullshit. You know well enough what will destroy you the worst of any card ever in your opponent's deck. Vs Esperblade, if you can physically move the muscles in your mouth to name Batterskull, you can play Therapy.

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i totaly have to agree on that
i previously used hymn in a dark horizon build. when i switched to a midrage-type of build i used inquisition of kozilek first, because i thought i was not good enough to use cabal therapy properly

fail on my part :tongue:

once i tried cabal therapy i soon realized the power difference between the two cards, and blind-calling something is really not that hard, once you have seen their first turn, actually its pretty easy, and if you just slightly understand how the opponents deck works it becomes even easier.

i would even go as far to say that even a noob with cabal therapy should be able to get at least 30% of the blindcalls to hit something in their hand.
once you get used to the card and how its played best you can easily reach the 50% of blindcalls to hit, and that is allready enough because of the reason Arianrhod stated, that you mostly call only stuff you do not want to see hitting the table

in addition to that in todays meta most decks give a lot of information away on what cards our opponents might be holding (specially dark confidant and stoneforge mystic)

on the boarding topic against esper and deathblade i think that cabal therapy might actually be good to stay in the MD after boarding as the biggest problem they can give to us is their equipment IMO, be it batterskull, jitte, or feast and famine, we do not really want to see any of them.
therefore i would keep every Abrupt Decay in MD as well

in my board i use Tidehollow sculler over thalia at the moment, but i might switch once i have tried thalia a bit more... we will see

tidehollow sculler is not really good against esper and deathblade in my expierience, therefore i keep 2 knights main (3 preboard) and also keep in maze of ith as most blue-based blade-decks can not handle maze of ith (tower of magistrate would be even stronger) because often they have no wastelands

i still got to overthink my boardingplan against those 2 deck, because i still get wrecked by them way to often, but this were just some thoughts on my part

another thing i was wondering is if there is anyone out there with a different approach to our deck, outside of GSZ, Lingering Souls, Knight and SFM
maybe a Vampire Hexmage approach would be viable again, or maybe something completely different.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KobeBryan

why would you play NO prog against esper?

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I asked about it because I'm considering using it in my sideboard.

It is a two turn clock that wins the game if Natural Order resolves. They have outs, but possibly not in time. Esper Stoneblade seems to be pretty good at grinding long games, and Jace can make the difference. No-Pro could be an answer to several decks that out-grind Junk, as a way to just end games fast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I asked about it because I'm considering using it in my sideboard.

It is a two turn clock that wins the game if Natural Order resolves.

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I like NO-Pro, but I gotta disagree with you here. If they get a Batterskull into play, that lifelink gives them one extra turn. That means they've got at least 12/13 cards total (assuming they don't play any drawspells, 7 in the original hand + draw turns 1-6/7) to find a sweeper, which all of them are playing.


Source:
At Nashville, all 3 Esper decks in the top 8 ran sweepers:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=55937 (2 supreme verdict)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=55931 (2 supreme vedrict)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=55947 (2 supreme verdict split between main and sideboards)

With ~13/60 cards, that's just under a 50% chance

New legend rule makes Liliana insanely powerful in multiples

New Legend Rule makes it so that Knight can fetch up Dark Depths and Thespian's Stage to get a 20/20 Marit Lage.