Tidehollow Sculler gets too little credit. I think it's one of the core cards in the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivaj
Printable View
Tidehollow Sculler gets too little credit. I think it's one of the core cards in the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivaj
I agree with Ganfar, I think Tidehollow can be considered battle tested and proven to be good. I run 3 of them personally.
Tidehollow is a fine card. I don't run it since I hate the fact I'm so worried about trading the card in combat. And therefore, giving back the card to my opponent.
I suppose you could run Mother of Runes or something like Wasteland Strangler to mitigate that. But I prefer permanent discard effects. That's just me. But I did entertain the thought of running a singleton Sculler and Enlightened Tutor in the board.
Lol, too bad it didn't have flash. If it did we'd have an awesome way to deal with Miracles effects from Terminus and Entreat. A long time ago I did play a Vial version of Deadguy with Tidehollows. Which funny enough, would probably be much better vs Miracles than what I currently play as I'd have Vials to bypass Countermagic and Vial/Tidehollow to neuter Miracle triggers.
But yeah it's a very good card, oh and another reason I don't run Sculler is some of my mass removal in the board could end up removing Sculler. Speaking of Strangler, I considered running it when Shardless was everywhere. Living the dream. Resolve Strangler, get a visions from suspend to the Graveyard and kill a Deathrite Shaman. 3 for 1.
I am toying with the idea of Strangler, since he combines well with the 4 mana walker that I want to try out. I think Sculler is quite good as well. The hardest part of Vial is getting enough dudes to justify it. It's fantastic with Bob, SFM, and Sculler, it's just you also want 4+ discard, plow, decay, and then vial, and equips, which is already 18+ cards. Not terrible I guess, just weird to not run Souls/Blossom/Walkers/etc.. Maybe I'll give that a go. I've always wanted to run Bob with Vial
I could see cutting a couple lands for the Vials, maybe sitting at 19-20. If you did that, and did 3 vials, at that point Vial feels like it's taking up only a single slot (sorta) which may make it pretty doable.
Hi,
Regarding Aether Vial builds I think you could also test Recruiter of the Guard but in this case you should also play at least 22 creatures with the risk of becoming in a sort of "not optimal" Death and Taxes list.
Speaking of more traditional Deadguy lists, did you ever tested any of the BW walkers (Sorin, lord of Innistrad, Sorin, Solemn Visitor or Kaya, Ghost Assassin)?
On my testing, at 4cmc slot I liked Hero of Bladehold a lot because she can end games pretty fast. What is your experience with her?
Thanks.
Wilkin has good success with Hero. Personally I think if you're running Hero you want Mom or (goofy enough) Lightning Greaves; for reasons of making sure she gets a swing in without your opponent being able to do much about it.
I think Kaya will be good seeing as it's good CA and is a win con against Miracles in any non-mentor board state. Haven't tried her yet though. Just looks good on paper.
I've been hopping around ideas a lot as I try to decide how to get back into the format again; but today writing lists of Vial DGA/Junk seems appetizing. What you get over D&T is Decay, T1 interaction with combo, and a lot of CA options. IMO Strangler, Bob, and others look mighty fine. Even a Goyf off of Vial can eat a dude for immediate CA or some "haste" damage against Miracles. Rec-Sage and QPM are still options; but it stops being "DGA" once you get that much Green.
Anyway, I'll let you know if I do anything weird + good on Thursday.
@Wilkin
Regarding Sculler, it just depends. Sometimes if you want the card gone you can wait until the card serves no good uses. Other times he's just a tempo play forcing your opponent to use removal when they wanted to establish their board.
Then don't take with Tidehollow when they have cretures out. But yeah, sometimes you need to chumpblock Tidehollow to not die but then other thing happen during the match that you couldn't stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
I am going for a spin with this list today on my localstore.
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Grim Flayer
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
4 Thoughtseize
2 Lingering Souls
1 Council's Judgment
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
4 Scrubland
1 Savannah
2 Bayou
3 Wasteland
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Manriki-Gusari
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Hymn to Tourach
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 1 Kor Firewalker
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
I have replace Mirran with Thalia, Heretic Cathar. I still Mirran is awesome card but Thalia, Heretic Cathar is better with the match-up we are bad against.
Elves - Everything enters tapped so it will stop the deck a lot.
Miracles - Thier lands enter tapped so they can't fetch right away.
Storm - An earily Thalia slow down the Strom deck to have thier lands tapped. A little better.
Sneak Attack - lol tapped
They only match-up Mirran is better is aganist BGx and BUG decks. Unblockable and can't be kill is good but Thalia is good in that match-up as well.
I will report what happen :)
Hero of Bladehold is a really good 4 drop in this deck. I have played that card before in my deck. It's just good to have one big card that can close the game really quick. We can easy grind the other deck out with our other cards but not close the game fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivaj
Hi,
I've also thought Kaya, Ghost Assassin could be a viable option against Miracles because they may have a hard time dealing with PW. On my testing, I used to put some pressure on early turns with Tidehollow sculler, lingering souls, etc. and then when they reset the board we can keep draining his life with her. My problem is that she isn't very good on other matchups. Has anyone tested her?
PD: @tescrin Good luck on Thursday ;) and @Ganfar keep us informed on Thalia's and Grim Flayer's performance please.
I think Sorin, LoI are just better then Kaya in Miracles. If they remove Sorin somehow, we still got a token or a emplem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivaj
Miracles is okey matchup. We can do a lot presure with one creture and SoFaI is really good.
I went 1-2-drop.
First was Miracles. Grim Flayer was really good on game 2 and game 3.
Game2: Grim has presure and he plays a Clique. However, Grim had Trample so he gets in for 3 dmg and wins.
Game3: I got some good beats with Grim Flayer and I get what I want.
Match 2 was Naya Knight Blade. 1-2. Thalia won game one with Sword of Fire and Ice. P.Fire can't take her. :)
Other games went bad
Match 3: Elves
Game1: Thalia stopped the elf player to go of one turn later.
Game 2: Grim Flayer did 14 dmg. He couldn't block and return a creture, because Grim has trample. I got some good Grim Triggers to dig to answered. I played wrong and kept stoneforge on top when it was no longer needed. Grim tigger is hard :(
I am still happy with the results with both cards and I will play with them more. :)
@reivaj
Thanks! Probably won't do well enough to post about haha, been at least 6 months since playing legacy much
Sorin gives you a 1/1 token. Kaya gives you a card and discards one of theirs. I can't imagine what world the 1/1 is better than another card in your deck, let alone them losing a card as well. You can sap 2 whenever, my suggestion is using her like Jace for a turn or two to gain quick CA; sap them after you've sealed the game. Regardless, i doubt she'll be in my list as I'm leaning towards vial. Something like:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganfar
-22-
4 DRS
4 Bob
4 SFM
3 Sculler
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Wasteland Strangler
-20-
3 Equips
3 Thoughtseize
2 Therapy
4 Plow
4 Decay
4 Aether Vial
-19- Mana
(2 basics, 3 waste, 8 fetch, 6 duals [3/2/1])
EDIT: The above is what I landed on for tonight. I think it'll be meh. Hard to tell when gold-fishing. Definitely is neat to chain 2-drops between mana and Vial. Currently I think the deck has too many 4x and would probably trim Bob, SFM, an Equip, a Goyf, and the 4th decay for a couple walkers or hard hitting 3-drops. I also miss Blossom/Souls already. Oh well, see what comes of it :P
I think Wasteland Strangler combo with Tidehollow sculler seems too cute. Lingering Souls is the besr card <3Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
OTP, Is there any creture in the legacy meta other then Grim Flayer that has Trample. It's really good he had that aginst Elves and Miracles. :)
If you went real heavy on black I'd suggest something like Obliterator. But it's pretty slow against elfs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganfar
As for Kaya vs Sorin, Sorin making 1/1's matters when you have so many weapons. Also his minus 2 makes lingering souls pretty insane. And him threatening his ultimate means that it's pretty risky for them to even play their Jace out in fear of you getting it
I agree what Megadeus say here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Kaya can't protect herself as well like Sorin. Sure, she can blink a turn and reset the counters but then she don't do anything.
Her -1 is a wincon, I forgot that she had that. Issue is that Kaya have only minus but Sorin gets more counter and protect.
Sure, Kaya maybe is better against Miracles but Sorin is better with other deck with more cretures.
I was actually pretty happy with Strangler and Vial, but not the deck. It's not about strangler using his thing with Sculler; that's just a bonus if you get lucky. Either way, I think I'm going to something with blue again atm, the lack of card filtering is always a sad thing to come back to lol.
That feel when you Mulligan and you have two spells and 4 lands, but one of them is brainstorm so fuck it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
Never tried Kaya but I prefer Gideon or Elspeth over her. Leaving behind a token is great because if an opponent casts a Council's Judgement, there's still a threat left behind. Hopefully one that can pick up a sword.
I just find this line of thinking so goofy though. Would you rather have a random card from your deck and be closer to a real creature, while additionally reducing your opponent's hand size, or would you rather have a token? It seems so strange to me that people would ever choose the token. It's the same as the idea of choosing a 1/1 over Hymn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
Even if I accept this; why not just run BB or Souls and then run Kaya, instead of running a 4-mana Card Disadvantage Bitterblossom that you have to protect?
@Mega
Indeed. But even just the midgame where they go "lol I'll search the top 3 for something good and then keep it." Sure, Library will do that, but U will play 4-8 copies of it, and you'll play 2 max, and often it'll get 'sploded before using it.
I've tried Mirri's Guile, Library, Top, and even OathONissa; and the "best" one is Oath AFAICT; since it affects the game *now* and happens T1. Even so, missing spells means it pisses on your plans when you need Decay. OoN and GSZ are reasonable analogues, but that leaves non-mavericks in a sore place for sure. Maybe I should brew a Goyf-Maverick or something. Why? Who knows.
That said, part of it is that even with the current meta, my store is always a weird one (TVG in portland) so we've got active storm players, S&T, and anything else you can think of. Feeling dumb because you don't get a second turn against Storm is sad.
First of all, you don't always want Hymn for a 1/1 with lifelink. Hymn does nothin if the oppment has no cards in hand. It also add something on the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
Second, Sorin is not Card Disadvantage as Bitterblossom. Bitterblossom even takes one more turn to make a token. The oppment can remove BB before you get a token. Sorin can make a token right away. If the oppment deals with Sorin, there is still a token that needs to deal with. Sorin is not Card disadvantage.
Thrid, You still need to protect Kaya. Because none of her loyalty abilitys are +, she become more vulnerable for every turn until you reset her. Sorin gets more counter AND cretures that stand in the way. Sorin is less vulnerable.
Off-topic: I was thining to add Colected Brutalty in sideboard aginst burn. I played some games with my deck aginst burn and it was bad. I have even Kor Firewalker in SB because I need something. So my question is: what other matchups is Brutality good aginst? Sultai Delver?
I'd add Blessed Alliance. It's removal against creatures that attack like eldrazi and delver and also life gain against burn/delver. Also random tricks
More mana to get two effects but it's still good card. I have to think about that one. Thanks for the tip!Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus