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Has anyone played ths list or something close to it?
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...8&iddeck=47452
Testing it now and It feels even slower than normal builds of Aggro Loam(slower as in threat/clock wise). I wanted to try it out because Ajani and Elspeth are in the deck, but I don't think it is any better than the Vindicate, Bob and Crusher lists.
I played Merfolk 3 times at Gencon and I only dropped one game to it (and it was a close game on my part). And that was without ever getting to use Lavamancer, as he got misstepped a lot. It felt like as long as you could keep them off of Commanders, all your creatures were better than theirs. Also apparently Merfolk can just draw like crap, as in 2 of the games I dealt with my opponents fish only to have them draw 5 islands in a row. And a resolved Loam+Assault engine is just gg against them, but that's a given.Quote:
Originally Posted by nayon
I brought in the Blasts and I felt like I was in a pretty decent spot against them. I'll be switching the deck up some and adding Wish, which will then give you access to Firespout against them. So overall I'd say Aggro Loam should poop on Merfolk pretty well.
Even the 4c version? Because that's what I'm thinking of running due to the versatility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarky87
If you're not beating merfolk with aggro loam you're doing it wrong. That's the deck you want to face every single round, because your creatures are just plain better, you don't run islands, you have a stronger lategame, and your removal is king against them. Practically every version of loam crushes merfolk and for good reason. Coralhelm commander is the only card you need concern yourself with or occasionally merrow reejerey coralhelm is only an issue because he flies and reejerey tapping your team down and alpha striking you can win them the game sometimes.
What's a sorcery speed card that blows out a graveyard? I'm thinking of playing this deck tomorrow at a random tournament I've never been to, if the meta is soft to grave-hate. If I see a Dredge player, I may want some Burning Wish action against the yard.
-Matt
Dwell on the Past were the only thing I could think of that can even do anything to a graveyard as a sorcery
Morningtide the double-edged sword ?
A few ideas:
Decompose
Haunting Echoes
Living Death
Memoricide
Rats' Feast
Tombfire
That's basically everything I could find. Most of it seems either too slow or ineffective though. Tombfire could bethe super sweet techa cute trick to get rid of Dread Return and Cabal Therapy, but doesn't really deal with fuckall else. I think crypt/spellbomb/extirpate are probably the best options in Jund. White splash with KotR makes Bojuka Bog workable, also gives you access to StP for Ichorids.
Honestly I've been liking a white splash for Knight and StP, haven't run into trouble casting Assault yet either. I also thought Vindicate would be strictly better than Maelstrom Pulse, but it always feels so clunky...is there a better option for those two spots or should I keep it in just for sheer versatility?
Thumbs up for the 4c version with white here too. Knight is so strong in this deck, and Vindicate never stays in my hand for very long, which is generally the sign of a useful card. That being said, I rarely use it to blow up land and most of the time it nukes a fatty creature or artifact.
Does anyone have experience playing against straight Burn decks or one-drop Zoo decks with a heap of burn in them? I've thought about playing a single Nomad's Stadium out of the board to grab with Knight to help deal with this MU but I'm not sure it will be fast/effective enough. They can just make 10 damage out of nowhere to finish you off without too much problem. I'm somewhat willing to just write off Burn decks as a bad matchup due to their combo nature, but I don't really want to be too much of a dog to a popular brand of Zoo deck (though getting a fast Goyf or Knight on them can really shut their ground offense down).
maybe decompose or haunting echoes, but haunting echoes probably is to slow, but i would opt for Gaea's Blessing, the cantrip effect would be nice
how often is rarely, 10, 20 30 percent of the time? and if that is truly your experience, why not just play maelstrom pulse?Quote:
Originally Posted by routlaw
(insert options argument here) for vindicate
(insert counter argument of value here) for pulse
other than those two arguments/ reasons.
4 color just seems pretty greedy to me, despite mox diamonds and loams.
That's something I test against a lot, and it is basically a crapshoot. If you can swords their early guys and get Assault down quick, you're golden, but it just takes a couple bad draws/dredges to find yourself in burn range.Quote:
Originally Posted by routlaw
Burn/Zoo is one of the reasons why I'd really like to run Chalices in the board, but like Leylines it's basically 4 or 0, and with Wish I just can't seem to find the spots.
Chalice is not actually that good against those decks. Well, maybe burn, but they can diversify their curve a bit and should have access to artifact destruction. Zuran Orb has been a much better way to deal with burn spells in my experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
I was more thinking of the 1-drop style Zoo lists like the one that took 2nd in Pittsburgh (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=39909Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
That deck is extremely soft to Chalice@1 without Pridemages.
In my experience, Chalice doesn't typically land until turn 2-3 for you. You'd be better off with more burn to handle the guys and Zuran Orb to handle the burn than you would be relying on Chalice to mop everything up. Not to mention, if they take game one and lose to Chalice in game two, they will resideboard into hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cheese
Against Zoo, Devastating Dreams is the best threat/answer you can have. It's even better when you have KotR/Crusher preceding it.
Chalice is good, but DD is better.
Was actually thinking of putting DD back in the Vindicate spot because it's just so good at bailing you out of terrible situations. My only concern is that I then have two fewer answers to Jace/planeswalkers.Quote:
Originally Posted by rukcus
Zoo rolls over to Seismic Assault.
But chalice takes care of so many other things: elves, burn, storm combo and any deck that has 1 mana cards. Which in legacy, is almost every deck! Plus, when lucky you can play chalice in turn 1 with a mox diamond. Some ppl will scoop. You can still Swords or bolts because it'll hurt ur opponent more than your deck. Personally i prefer playin punishing fire and fetching the grove with knight of the reliquary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
I had to play against Cat Sligh rather often when I played this deck (I ran Jund colors with Burning Wish). Basically, I boarded in Chalice, boarded out Dark Confidant, and stalled with removal as best I could. I usually stabilized at insanely low life with Burning Wish -> Devastating Dreams to wipe out their team and lands. Seismic Assault and Punishing Fire are also insanely good against these decks. If you're not running DD, your matchup against them will be much worse. I ran DD in the board, fires, assault, and Lightning Bolt in the main (Chalice at 1 postboard is also insane against them). Without these cards you will likely be in big trouble unless you can stall them very early. Zuran Orb is another possible sideboard option.Quote:
Originally Posted by routlaw
EDIT: Got ninja'd basically, but the points still stand.
Tl;dr: Burning Wish -> Devastating Dreams and postboard COTV are the keys to this matchup. Punishing Fire and other burn helps though.